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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war
- Thread starter ADiTAR
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MisterFalcon
Member
There are way more Jews critical of Israel compared to Muslims critizing Hamas. In fact, the latter do not seem to exist at all and murdering 1400 people has gotten them way more support.
I have yet to find a single Muslim who has publically stated Hamas should stop what they are doing regardless of what Israel does.
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Please do. What are Jews known for to you?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The thing is that there has to be a political decision behind the invasion, because it is not just an invasion that is necessary - but a political approval (you can destroy the area, but who will control it? will it be recognized?). And before this fake hospital incident, there was one, where Abbas would get a control over Gaza. I personally blame UK for that as they were basically the first one (Guardian or BBC?) who reported on that and escalated the fake issue to a point where it broke all the negotiations.
US is clearly not as strong as it was before, there is no denial in that.
The problem is that you can send carriers, but will you use it? That is the question? What's gonna happen if Hezbollah starts invading Israel or Hamas will attack from some other side? Will the power of carriers be used?
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BlackTron
Gold Member
I think they have a defensive/reactive posture. In fact I think they are willing to take a decent hit first to have their "excuse" to fight back. But once they have it, they will probably just bomb everything in five minutes
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Wasn't there someone singing Erdogan's praises in this thread? That he's an ally of some sort that keeps Palestinians in check or something?
BlackTron
Gold Member
Actually I thought the same, like am I going crazy or did he do a 180...??
Boozeroony
Member
Yuval Noah Harari remains one of those people that I turn towards when I feel lost about complex issues. The guy is not only intelligent, but also morally very well calibrated.
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CharmingCharlie
Member
If the European Union needs any more evidence that letting Turkey into the EU would be an utter shit show, then this is it. Turkey is nothing but a bad faith actor that is NOT aligned with Western Democratic values. Furthermore I think there needs to be some serious discussion about kicking Turkey out of NATO. At every turn Turkey has obstructed and hindered NATO from Ukraine to cock bloicking stable western nations from joining the alliance. It is time to say "enough is enough" and kick Turkey and this manchild Erdogan out to the wolves and whilst we are at it we could get rid of that shitshow that is called Hungray.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Hastelander
Banned
What ages worse than milk?
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
It's a little bit complicated.
Can Turkey be Expelled from NATO? It's Legally Possible, Whether or Not Politically Prudent
The absence of a specific mechanism in the North Atlantic Treaty does not prevent suspending or terminating an ally's membership.
www.justsecurity.org
Stitch
Gold Member
yeah so I guess PKK is also patriotic organization
darkangel-212559
Banned
How do I post a video for you guys? From my phone files. Cheers
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Happosai
Hold onto your panties
They chanted "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free..." That is the same level as exterminate all the Jews. You're aware of what 'free Palestine' and 'from the river to the sea' means, right? Free Palestine = leave not one Jew alive, destroy them all. And the other part:
“From the River to the Sea” | #TranslateHate
Translate Hate was created by American Jewish Committee (AJC) to explain antisemitism. This glossary aims to improve media literacy on antisemitism and hate, especially in the digital realm. See when “From the River to the Sea” is antisemitic.
www.ajc.org
The term erase is to exterminate Jews. Was there more? No, that was all and says it all.
Happosai
Hold onto your panties
No. Hate speech isn't good enough. The phrase need to be classified as: I/we/they support terrorism. The punishment for students needs to be: immediate expulsion, mandatory public courses showing them hours of Holocaust footage to 'get the point,' mandatory follow up courses showing them in detail what happened on the 7th of October, denial of enrollment to any Uni for the next 3-years and then we'll see where to go from there.
+ revoke visas.
Happosai
Hold onto your panties
+ passports + put them on a watch list. If every single supporter was put on a watch list. They felt the fear of what they may or may not do wrong and I'll go one step further add a GPS ankle bracelet. They're going to understand what the word: consequence means. I'd say leave them on a watch list or keep the ankle bracelet on until they've shown they're willing to be upstanding members of society. Until they're personally apologized to all of the Jews who were on campus in their University and city.
I'm more extreme though. If I were their parent, I'd say: you want to fight for a cause? Going to show them this and say, "I've already enrolled you for the draft and you're welcome."
Raven117
Member
Nah....We want Turkey to have to depend on NATO for defense. Sure, they can run their mouth, preen their feathers, yada yada, but in the end, they will do what the West needs them to.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I doubt it. If it was early late 1990s - early 2000s, USA would have obliterated Gaza within a day and UN would have written a complaint note. Now? Pff. No poltical will or power.
Turkey has a very strategic location.
What we are actually seeing USA losing not only soft power but also military power and quite fast at that. If USA won't make a move to support Israel it will literally open possibilities for other actors to do whatever, knowing that political capital is on the other side. Like Russia has a lot of muslims, Pakistan, the whole middle east, now Erdogan + muslims in Europe and so on. We are seeing the collapse of Western Roman Empire in a real time. I guess the dark ages will be the next step. I think UK will be the best beneficiary of all it, unless USA comes to their senses.
The funny part is that the ultimate winner will be a normal CIS man, because in islamic world only they hold the power.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Exactly where I'm at. I'm not a trump guy, but like what are you going to do about universities becoming breeding grounds of antisemitism, that's the next generation's minds being poisoned.
I saw a valid counterpoint somewhere I can't find though, basically about the regular right wing talking point about free speech, now they're calling for what, the federal government to monitor speech on campus? Is it only going to be for antisemitism, or creep into other areas?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Historically each and every strong power was used against those who invented it. Whether leftists or rightwingers ask for more control, it will be used against them sooner rather than later.
CrankyJay™
Member
Can someone explain to me what Tom is getting at here?
winjer
Gold Member
It's not that the USA is losing soft power, it's that the world is going back to being polarized, like during the cold war.
And several countries are choosing their sides.
Turkey is doing what they have always done. They are not on one side, they are on Turkey's side.
And the one that gives them the more benefits, is where Turkey will side with.
Look at Turkey during the Cold War, and you you see a country that is constantly asking for handouts.
They even managed to get some money from the Marshall plan, despite not participating in the war.
Salty Hippo
Member
Most of them know exactly what happened. I don't think this can be fixed without a breach of the 1st amendment unfortunately. And I say this as a huge free speech advocate. It's easy to support the free speech rights of an absolute minority of idiots with ideas that are so idiotic that you know they'll stay a tiny minority forever. This is different. Not only there are far more people than any fringe hate group but it's also on an entirely different level of propagandization, moral relativism and creation of rot from the inside out.
With groups like the KKK for instance, the condemnation is virtually unanimous from anyone outside their own group of shitheads. With anti-semites however, way too many "peaceful muslims" and non-muslims justify atrocities because they were irreparably indoctrinated by a media complex that's full of envious, anti-capitalist demagogues whose only truth in life is the idea that any vile action is justified as long as someone is poor. This has festered for basically a century and it's insanely hard, if not impossible to fix today without a stance that's at least as hard as their own.
English is not my first language so I apologize if I'm misusing some of these words.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
“9/11 was an inside job”
Boozeroony
Member
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Trump says enough dumb crap to cover multiple lifetimes, but he did some good things when president. For instance cutting ties with the UN who are absolutely useless and is filled with terrorist sympathizers. Biden immediately joined back with them when he became president, so we're sending a ton of money to people who hate us and want to see us fail, this is a reoccuring pattern with this administration.
NickFire
Member
I genuinely appreciate that Biden has sided with Israel's right to protect itself so far. But his administration is full of people who were indoctrinated by the same school of thought that lead to these pro-terrorist protestors we keep seeing in the news. And until a few weeks ago we were getting cozy with Iran again. Even as recently as yesterday his press secretary was explaining herself for the day prior when she put her foot in her mouth the day before on this topic. It feels like the twilight zone right now.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
No, cold war requires at least two adversaries. Right now we don't have any superpower aside USA. China is not the one and its economy is also in trouble.
I think we are going back to imperial era where we have bigger and smaller, weaker and stronger countries creating mess worldwide. And we are also going backwards. Russia, Turkey, Middle East, some western powers are going back to more conservative, backwards thinking. Italy, Poland, Hungary etc.
Trump was extremely aggressive against global structures like UN. And right now we see various corporations and organizations trying to gain power over national countries (Pandemic agreements etc). The elections will be strange this time.
lachesis
Member
Kinda sad and funny that his probably 70+ yr old dad writing apology note for his 41 yr old son.
Could be a good template for any kindergartener's parents.
"XXX didn't mean that - and he'll be grounded for a week. During that time XXX will learn what he's done is wrong."
If my parents had to write that stuff in public, that in itself would be the ultimate humiliation and disgrace for me.
Well, hope he learns the history and lesson in 4 months of suspension.
LordOfChaos
Member
Oh man. Most of these have a terribly hard time saying what happened on October 7th was also wrong.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Militarily, the USA absolutely fucking dwarves everybody else.
Politically is another matter altogether...
FunkMiller
Gold Member
They don't think it was wrong. They think it was a righteous act, dictated by Allah, against the satanists. That's literally the mindset.
LordOfChaos
Member
Again...Why is this guy an "ally"?
www.jpost.com
Turkey's Erdogan: Hamas aren't terrorists, they're a liberation group
In a speech to his party's lawmakers, Erdogan said Israel had taken advantage of Turkey's good intentions and that he will not go to Israel as previously planned.
www.jpost.com
Wildebeest
Member
Turkey is in a position where it can significantly slow any push from Russia into Europe which is the purpose of Nato. Nato doesn't exist to stop Muslims having some sort of kinky hate party on the streets of London or anything like that.
I guess by soft power you are talking about the US lacking diplomatic power and not that you think the US should give more aid to Gaza or that Marvel movies are not watched in Palestine? I suppose them needing to send the president in to the region in person and so quickly shows a lack of confidence in their diplomacy. But the reason for the lack of diplomatic power is known. The US is intensely politically divided. There is no consistent US policy. The regime can change every four years and like clockwork all the diplomatic policies of the last regime will change 180 degrees because that dysfunction is just how the US works now.
I don't know how you think the UK benefits from US instability. The UK has its own problems, but one of them is that in a real war it will be a huge priority bombing target and open to much more immediate military threat than the USA. The defensive capabilities of the US make it a ludicrous target for any military attack, and the only question of US weakness is of it being spread too thin globally.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
But what's the point of the military is due to politics you can't use it probably. It is like having a gun but being unable to use it. With Ukranian war we know that USA won't interfere directly anymore, but will provide a lot of support (simply because Afghanistan and Iraq demonstrated that USA just don't have enough ground forces to participate in multiple conflicts, and bombings don't solve conflicts). It is cheaper and more effective (for economy) just to provide weapons to some countries. But it creates a situation, encountered by older empires in the past where the mainland forgot how to wage wars and just preferred paying to countries, leading to a situation where internal politics were against waging war. Creating a deadlock - if your guns are the best, there is no political will to use them.
But situation with Israel is a challenge due to a lot of politics involved and Israel cannot freely do a move without political solution. EU is a mess right now and can't do much, muslim countries are happy with Israel being in trouble. And most of them have issues with economy and thus even in case of war their lives won't become much worse than now.
It is one of cases (arab countries, Iran, etc.) why I always say that sanctions don't work much on backwards countries - people used to live in a shitty conditions and won't rebel against their governments. Coming from the post soviet country, I remember the time when as a child we did not even have toilet paper. Toilet paper! We don't even have a single generation that lived a luxurious life and now again the country is falling into underdeveloped state. People who lived through the worst state of Soviet Union (80s) are used to having shitty poor lives and ok with them. So even if they lose access to stuff like Internet, a lot of people won't care. Hell, in some areas abacus is still in use.
And a lot of people like this sometimes jealous that other people have better lives and want to destroy those lives, make them worse. We see it with Gaza - rather than trying to improve their own lives, they would rather see Israel being destroyed. In Russia it is the same thing - constantly being jealous of prosperous western countries. And Russia has a lot of muslim states, openly supporting Gaza.
I don't deny that, but it creates a situation where the power of USA is waning.
This is huge geopolitical topic, bordering conspiracy at this point so it does not matter.
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P:axMagellanic
Member
If NATO's primary reason for existing is to contain Russia. Then Turkey, purely by geography is vital for that, and Israel is frankly irrelevant to the whole organisation. There's also the fact that Erdogan won't live forever.
LordOfChaos
Member
No election until late 2025 seems soo faaar, unless the NDP stop propping up Trudeau's Liberals, but that's not going to happen so long as Jagmeet gets the softness he wants on the terror orgs he supports, he showed up at rallies with the Air India Bomber.
Fucking idiots around here thought it was racist to ask him about that, Terry Milewski was 100% right
Why a journalist's question to Jagmeet Singh about an Air India bombing made them both targets of criticism
'If leaders in Canada don’t disown terrorists and terrorism, then who would?' asked Bal Gupta, whose wife was killed in the Air India bombing
nationalpost.com
Shit's bad here guys, I don't think many around here even understand
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BlackTron
Gold Member
If you're gonna force me to generalize, I would say getting fucked for being competent and successful
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