funkygunther
Banned
this is a sensible take
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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war
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this is a sensible take
Yeah, what these so called right wingers are reffering to, are actually the extremists. But they know this very well, and they just try hard to spin this, as they always do. Disgusting.
West Texas CEO
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
The next time I wank to Mia will be to spite her!
Madserb2023
Member
That should be the case but it isn't. I am sick of the gaslighting and nobody can do it to me. I was a member of a socialist workers group and while I I stil consider myself left wing due to economic beliefs I know first hand some don't like Jews. I have heard so much about how capitalism is evil and how Jews are behind it. I have had Mao is great guy etc. Most on the left know these people exist but they pretend they don't. I have conversations with these people only for 5 minutes later girl someone to say to me that person doesn't exist or they were the far right in disguise.
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Haha.... how about Northrop, Boeing, General Dynamics, RTX Corp?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
You can’t actually believe that, can you?
winjer
Gold Member
ISW: Russia exploiting Hamas attack on Israel to divert support from Ukraine
Following Hamas' large-scale attacks on Israeli territory on Oct. 7, Russian voices amplified messages blaming Western countries for neglecting conflicts in the Middle East in favor of supporting Ukraine.
theclaw135
Banned
I don't understand socialism enough to take a stand on it. If anything, I'd say I've seen less villainy conducted in the name of Judaism (compared to other major faiths)
Madserb2023
Member
There has always been a strain of anti-semitism on the left because of the synonymous relationship with Jews and banks etc. I remember being given a leaflet with a picture of people with big noses around a table counting money. This is quite normal for a percentage of the left. Even though majority on the left absolutely don't hate Jews; the problem I have is that too often the left deny that they do exist and it causes huge damage to the left. Its frustrating. We will be hearing from alot of people who don't exist over the next couple of days
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
If your neighborhood socialist crew thinks Mao has anything to do with socialism...
Then again white priviledged people are still wearing Che Guevara t-shirts...
Slicker than your average
Banned
I read some earlier posts suggesting this could go on for ages or that Hamas are well prepared.
More than likely most of the terrorist's are already dead and the IDF are just mopping up. Regardless of how well trained they are; the terrorists don't have satalites, drones military intelligence, radios Comms etc. They relied on shock and targeting civilians who can't exactly fight back .
You can't fight conventional wars Vs western militaries. You get instantly pasted. It's why afghans and the Vietnamese didn't. Obviously there's no real military objective here but to murder civilians.
More than likely most of the terrorist's are already dead and the IDF are just mopping up. Regardless of how well trained they are; the terrorists don't have satalites, drones military intelligence, radios Comms etc. They relied on shock and targeting civilians who can't exactly fight back .
You can't fight conventional wars Vs western militaries. You get instantly pasted. It's why afghans and the Vietnamese didn't. Obviously there's no real military objective here but to murder civilians.
Madserb2023
Member
They are nut jobs and they should be called out but they won't be when they say they don't exist or that it's just a conspiracy theory. If your first experience of a so called left winger is somebody who thinks that the annexation of Tibet was good because the Chinese brought Socialisn to the religious savages. That person is going to be lost to the right. I don't think they know how damaging it is.If your neighborhood socialist crew thinks Mao has anything to do with socialism...
Then again white priviledged people are still wearing Che Guevara t-shirts...
There is an explanation of why Jews became bankers and landers, which is very similar to why they sorta built Hollywood
Jews and Finance | My Jewish Learning
Interest, Usury, and Moneylending in Jewish Law. Jewish Price Regulation. Jewish Business Ethics in Practice. Jewish Work and Commerce.
www.myjewishlearning.com
Jews have been associated with moneylending for at least a millennia. The most common explanation for this has been the exclusion of European Jews in the Middle Ages from various guilds, their confinement to ghettos and restrictions preventing them from owning land. Additionally, medieval Christian theology held that charging interest (known as usury) was sinful, which kept many Christians from becoming financiers. The field thus came to be dominated by Jews. The historian Howard Sachar has estimated that in the 18th century, “perhaps as many as three-fourths of the Jews in Central and Western Europe were limited to the precarious occupations of retail peddling, hawking, and ‘street banking,’ that is, moneylending.” The fact that Christians regarded such occupations as incompatible with their religious principles fed the notion that Jews were morally deficient, willing to engage in unethical business practices that decent people had rejected.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
They don't wear uniforms and they don't hang out in "barracks" they dress in civvies and their base of operations are in the back of grocery shops, school basements, apartment blocks.. the terrorists have all the advantages tbf
All this is going to do is provide the next generation of fanatics willing to Alluh Ackbar in the name of Iran, having a destabilised Gaza is in the interests of Iran and until the people of that country overthrow the government there will never be peace, it's the same with the Russians, until Putin is out the west will always be dealing with his shit.
It's beyond awful the suffering being inflicted on the world by two fucking people
MisterFalcon
Member
This 'attacking only creates new recruits' argument was used to get the West to not attack ISIS and in the end it turned out all the maniacs had already joined.
Letting Hamas achieve victory is the greatest recruitment tool, there will always be some jihadists until the last unbeliever is beheaded. But far more want to be on the winning team and maybe get to keep some girl as a slave.
Letting Hamas achieve victory is the greatest recruitment tool, there will always be some jihadists until the last unbeliever is beheaded. But far more want to be on the winning team and maybe get to keep some girl as a slave.
daffyduck
Member
I though there was no such thing as ”extreme left”?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
When your holy book directly tells you that if you wage war on the unbelievers you will earn your reward in heaven - you’re going to get a lot of people quite prepared to murder innocent civilians, and die in the perpetration of those crimes.
I know I sound like a broken record with my anti-religious stance sometimes, but fuck me, it’s 2023, and we still have millions upon millions of people across the world who live their lives according to books written thousands of years ago by superstitious, ignorant dudes with barely a grasp on reality.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Not sure if this has been discussed but that festival was super sus:
Horrifying images reveal Hamas massacre at rave, where Israeli officers acted as human shields to protect civilians
Graphic new images include a photo of the scores of dead lying in a tent from the rave in southern Israel, which turned into bloody mayhem as heavily armed Palestinian terrorists paraglided into th…nypost.com
How did Hamas know all these details for full-encirclement attack and ambush at the parking lot if the concert-goers themselves didn't have details until shortly before?
It was a dance festival 3 kilometers from the border. They probably heard the bass booming from far away.
AFAIK there have never been Iranian suicide bombers. In a middle eastern context suicide bombers are always Arabs (both shiites and sunnites).
hyperbertha
Member
So you admit it's Palestine that's the problem.
Wildebeest
Member
I don't know if it is conventional war, but it isn't exactly Maoist guerilla war either. They have Gaza to retreat to and have used low intensity warfare, but this big strike is not them doing the "killing blow" of Guerilla warfare which is to overrun the enemy forces and take their equipment, while winning the support of the population in their target area. Always from the start the ideological Hamas plan is to pogrom the settlers, never win them over, so they can join their struggle and give them a new place to operate from.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
The past few days on Twitter have been pretty enlightening. I'm astonished (and aghast) at the number of people I'd been following who have been posting defenses of Palestinian resistance without even once mentioning the many hundreds of civilians who were killed on the spot simply for being Jewish. Same goes for news sites that follow the conflict and hardly mention the enormous number of innocent people brutally murdered by Hamas terrorists, but focus only on the "freedom fighters vs military" angle.
Lunarorbit
Gold Member
Would Israel get into an actual open conflict with Iran over this? With all that's coming out they probably have enough justification. It would probably mean full scale war if they did but Israel is going to have to do something.
Everything is on the table at the moment.
Madserb2023
Member
I can't see how this can be resolved when both sides think they are the occupiers. The Jews were basically cast out by the Romans hundreds of years before Islam even existed so they were the indigenous people and faith in that region. It would be like the UN giving native Americans a chunk of a state back and people calling them occupiers and firing rockets at them. I would get the anger of the people who lost their homes but they wouldn't technically be the occupiers. They won't win that argument. Maybe the UN shouldn't have voted to establish Israel but it's done now but in no way is that a sustainable situation.
winjer
Gold Member
Israel already did some attacks against military targets on Iran, in the past.
But these were sporadic pre-emptive attacks, on specific military targets, to disrupt Iranian attacks against Israel.
What has happened now is a huge attack on Israel. So we can expect that Israel will do a lot more damage to Iran.
And because Iran is run by fanatical half wits, they already have serious problems with their infrastructure. Especially with regards to water management, which is essential in a country in a desert.
So if Israel destroys just a part of Iran's water infrastructure, it will bring chaos to the whole country, as their agricultural system collapses.
Also, consider that Russia has been selling their oil to countries that usually bought from Iran. So Iran sales of oil have been reduced significantly.
So between western sanctions, sheer incompetence of the Iranian governments and competition from Russian oil, Iran is in a precarious situation. So a war with Israel will be devastating.
Iran will reap what they sow.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Check the nationality of almost all of 9/11 attackers. Spoiler: largest US ally in the Middle East apart from Israel. Also spoiler: not Iran.
Iran is many things, but US insistence of favouring Wahhabism instead of Iran’s theocracy is LOL-worthy.
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MeisaMcCaffrey
Twitter is great for breaking news but reading people's opinions there is simply not good for my mental health.
Festival massacre survivor tells his story.
"I was there at the festival, there were rockets so people got nervous and everyone started to leave,
We drove towards the main road, where we saw many cars standing in what looked like a traffic jam, at the end there were policemen and soldiers forming a roadblock and blocking the road.
This was not a police checkpoint, these were terrorists impersonators.
They waited until there were a lot of people standing in traffic then pulled out a machine-gun and started spraying the cars with bullets, at least 300 dead.
300 people gone, what they say on the news is wrong.
We were the last car, so we drove reverse.
We took two bullets to the windshield, a bullet penetrated Lior in the shoulder and I was injured by broken glass in my hands.
We managed to get away from them with the car barely working, we opened waze and Lior told me "I served here, let's go to the military base: Gaza division."
Driving towards the division's base, we were sure that we will be safe there.
But they already raided this base at night and killed all the soldiers of the base in their beds, by then they had already taken over the base.
We arrived at the gate with the car all broken.
I saw at the gate's entrance what I was sure were soldiers but actually were 13 terrorists standing ready in crouch position with AK47s and M16s looking at us from a range of about 20 meters then started spraying the hell out of our car.
We were shot all over, all the door were holes, a bullet hit me in the head, tore a part of my head off. Evyatar took a bullet in the pelvis, Lior to the shoulder.
We're all in blood, they threw a grenade at us, suddenly I didn't hear anything, looking to the right, to the left shouting, "Lior get out".
I grabbed Lior and got out of the car, we started running and they kept shooting at us, I heard the bullets pass near my head and kept taking shots near my legs, I still have shrapnel in my legs from the bullets.
We ran and saw the fence of the base, it was about three meters high, we jumped over it through the barbed wire, all my hands were cut.
They kept shooting at us, but not a single bullet hit us, they didn't manage to hit us somehow.
We kept running, and hid there in the snipers' bunker, We were there for about 3-4 hours, without water, bleeding, I made myself a tourniquet, Lior also made a tourniquet.
We were sure the rest were already dead behind, I didn't look back.
Then a team of Shayetet 13 (Israeli navy seals) arrived at the base, and real war started inside, some additional 30-40 soldiers were gone.
I heard the screams of death, pull back, pull back, death, they were shooting RPGs at each other, right in the middle of the war we were.
We finally went out to them, we were afraid that our soldiers would shoot at us because we looked like terrorists with shirts wrapped around our heads.
We left with our hands up, I told them not to shoot that we are Israeli.
They told us to lie on the floor and questioned us, checking that we were Israelis, I told him our names and that we were wounded.
At the end a helicopter came to rescue some wounded soldiers, I grabbed the soldier by the hands and looked him in the eyes, I told him "My brother I have a little girl at home and a family, you are taking me with you in that helicopter". He looked and me and told me "yalla" (come on), "cooperate".
So we started to cooperate, lifting injured soldiers on my shoulders, Lior helped lifting the stretcher to the helicopter, trying to save people as much as possible,
People were screaming to hold on tight, and don't die in my hands, it was like a movie.
He took us at the end,Thank god now we are recovering."
"I was there at the festival, there were rockets so people got nervous and everyone started to leave,
We drove towards the main road, where we saw many cars standing in what looked like a traffic jam, at the end there were policemen and soldiers forming a roadblock and blocking the road.
This was not a police checkpoint, these were terrorists impersonators.
They waited until there were a lot of people standing in traffic then pulled out a machine-gun and started spraying the cars with bullets, at least 300 dead.
300 people gone, what they say on the news is wrong.
We were the last car, so we drove reverse.
We took two bullets to the windshield, a bullet penetrated Lior in the shoulder and I was injured by broken glass in my hands.
We managed to get away from them with the car barely working, we opened waze and Lior told me "I served here, let's go to the military base: Gaza division."
Driving towards the division's base, we were sure that we will be safe there.
But they already raided this base at night and killed all the soldiers of the base in their beds, by then they had already taken over the base.
We arrived at the gate with the car all broken.
I saw at the gate's entrance what I was sure were soldiers but actually were 13 terrorists standing ready in crouch position with AK47s and M16s looking at us from a range of about 20 meters then started spraying the hell out of our car.
We were shot all over, all the door were holes, a bullet hit me in the head, tore a part of my head off. Evyatar took a bullet in the pelvis, Lior to the shoulder.
We're all in blood, they threw a grenade at us, suddenly I didn't hear anything, looking to the right, to the left shouting, "Lior get out".
I grabbed Lior and got out of the car, we started running and they kept shooting at us, I heard the bullets pass near my head and kept taking shots near my legs, I still have shrapnel in my legs from the bullets.
We ran and saw the fence of the base, it was about three meters high, we jumped over it through the barbed wire, all my hands were cut.
They kept shooting at us, but not a single bullet hit us, they didn't manage to hit us somehow.
We kept running, and hid there in the snipers' bunker, We were there for about 3-4 hours, without water, bleeding, I made myself a tourniquet, Lior also made a tourniquet.
We were sure the rest were already dead behind, I didn't look back.
Then a team of Shayetet 13 (Israeli navy seals) arrived at the base, and real war started inside, some additional 30-40 soldiers were gone.
I heard the screams of death, pull back, pull back, death, they were shooting RPGs at each other, right in the middle of the war we were.
We finally went out to them, we were afraid that our soldiers would shoot at us because we looked like terrorists with shirts wrapped around our heads.
We left with our hands up, I told them not to shoot that we are Israeli.
They told us to lie on the floor and questioned us, checking that we were Israelis, I told him our names and that we were wounded.
At the end a helicopter came to rescue some wounded soldiers, I grabbed the soldier by the hands and looked him in the eyes, I told him "My brother I have a little girl at home and a family, you are taking me with you in that helicopter". He looked and me and told me "yalla" (come on), "cooperate".
So we started to cooperate, lifting injured soldiers on my shoulders, Lior helped lifting the stretcher to the helicopter, trying to save people as much as possible,
People were screaming to hold on tight, and don't die in my hands, it was like a movie.
He took us at the end,Thank god now we are recovering."
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
When is the Saudi’s turn to answer for 9/11? Because the US invaded the wrong country.
Kenpachii
Member
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MeisaMcCaffrey
Very lucky. How in the world did they take over the base and the Israeli leadership had no clue? It couldn't have been that easy.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Khomeini is the one who came up with the ideology of blowing yourself up for the cause and it is the only way they survived their war with Iraq. To this day they have monuments with red fountains in honor of the boys they convinced to walk through minefields to clear a way for the Iranian army to proceed through. This was transformed into suicide bombings by Hezbollah in 1983, shortly after they were formed, funded by Iran. The practice spread in use as it was favored by Assad, but it was Iranian leaders who formed the ideology that justified it.
I think you think that I was trying to make a different point than I was. My meaning was that Iranian leaders invented the idea of blowing yourself up for the cause and that became an idea that spread to other groups when it was seen as effective. Similarly, these terror tactics used by ISIS and Hamas seem to spread rapidly if they don't result in the perpetrators being rapidly wiped out.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Just about every islam inspired terrorist attack in the west was done by sunni muslims inspired by Wahhabists from Saudi-Arabia.
Iran had nothing to do with all of that. Iran's focus is on supporting allies like Syria and Iraq and funding anti-Israel groups in Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Gaza (Hamas). Those groups aren't active in the west.
winjer
Gold Member
Whataboutism regarding a war that started 20 years ago?
As if the fuck up by George W. Bush, justifies all other human crimes.
We are talking about an attack on Israel in 2023.
DaleinCalgary
Gold Member
Like clockwork every few years Hamas attacks Israel with scud type rockets and ak47's the Israel pounds them into submission and then the people beg for food from the UN and electricity from Israel because they have nothing. The people there elected Hamas, time for them to be cut off and maybe they will spend the Iran money on agriculture and power plants instead of rockets.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Very possibly, yes. Especially with the support of the US and NATO.
What we *should* be looking at is a two pronged offensive against the axis of Iran and Russia. Both need to be severely weakened, and you have to do it to both at the same time. Israel can claim justification for conflict against Iran at this stage for Iran's involvement in the butchering of innocent Israeli citizens, and NATO is obviously continuing to support Ukraine in their war against the illegal Russian invasion.
Sadly, I don't think western governments have the stomach for what is increasingly becoming a situation that needs a strong, concerted and unambiguous response. This is, of course, as a direct result of the cold feet they have, thanks to the absolute catastrophe of the Iraq War of twenty years ago.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
Scotty W
Banned
The only thing that makes it possible is ignorance.
Musashipan
Member
What are the governments are doing to to prevent those manifestations in favor of the terrorists?
Isn't supporting a terrorist organization a crime as well?
Jail them and send them back to gaza!
Isn't supporting a terrorist organization a crime as well?
Jail them and send them back to gaza!
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
No, there won't be a war between US/NATO/Israel and Iran. There's no conclusive proof at the moment and even if there were, the west is in no position to attack Iran when so much weaponry and munition has already been sent to Ukraine. There's also the fear that war with Iran could lead to an immediate blockade of the Persian gulf which could send oil prices sky high and wreak havoc with the world economy.
NATO wouldn't be involved anyway since Israel is not a NATO member. If the US wants to wage war against Iran it would have to convince individual countries to join forces. But I think there are few people in Washington willing to go to Iran when the alternative (Israel destroys Hamas in Gaza) is much simpler to pull off. The hawks in Washington are convinced that war with China is coming, an unexpected military excursion into Iran could only weaken the US military.
I think Israel will concentrate on executing the Iranian military leaders they suspect of being involved in this plot.
Wildebeest
Member
There seem to be fewer suited "blowback" experts on the BBC news today and more reporting on human tragedy.
BlueAlpaca
Member
God, why are any of you shocked?
The people who justify and apologize for terror, supporting terror? The people who apologize for putrid authoritarians regimes because they are anti-western and hate the US, now - how shocking - supporting fascists terrorists and mass murder? The People with Che posters and hammer and sickle flags supporting totalitarian ideologies and their atrocities? Those people dominate your highest institutions. You even vote for them, that disgusting shit stain sanders nearly became US president and the only problem people had was with a fucking border wall (do you support walls now? How about open borders with the muslim world?). Obama, that other shit stain, took a shit eating grin picture with a Che poster in Cuba and if he weren't president he'd be posting on twitter in praise of this attack, directly or indirectly.
Madserb2023
Member
Just looked at the independenct comment section. It's just Israel bashing.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
The Israelis would handle Iran, NATO and the US Russia. They wouldn't be involved in each other's conflict. Not directly, anyway.
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