Ah... Ok.
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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war
- Thread starter ADiTAR
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So, speculation on my part on how things are going to progress… Israel is denying access to resupply of food and water, but I anticipate this will change in the next 24 hours or so. I expect it is mostly motivated by a desire to leave Hamas fighters with little to no food or water.
With the strip split in half, the IDF will lestablish a southern security border for the northern half to fully control any further movement across it. Israel risks losing the recent influx of international support if they don’t resupply noncombatants that they’re pushing to the south. The southern half will likely be “turned on” so to speak with food, water, and electricity. The northern half will not. The 30,000ish Hamas forces won’t last long without water. Any noncombatants caught in the north are likely to die.
The goal I expect, is to eradicate Hamas’ numbers in the north as thoroughly as possible, whether through bombardment or outright dehydration.
The next 24-48 hours is going to be precarious.
With the strip split in half, the IDF will lestablish a southern security border for the northern half to fully control any further movement across it. Israel risks losing the recent influx of international support if they don’t resupply noncombatants that they’re pushing to the south. The southern half will likely be “turned on” so to speak with food, water, and electricity. The northern half will not. The 30,000ish Hamas forces won’t last long without water. Any noncombatants caught in the north are likely to die.
The goal I expect, is to eradicate Hamas’ numbers in the north as thoroughly as possible, whether through bombardment or outright dehydration.
The next 24-48 hours is going to be precarious.
Yes, Hamas and Gazans have food an water. It's only been a week, you don't run out that fast from supplies. It'll take a month before it actually bothers them.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Shit. Where's this action when I watch these live feed quadruple cams? There's nothing going on the YT feeds I'm watching!
IAF says it bombarded 100 targets.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
SNL cold open. Surprisingly somber and heartfelt
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Xenon
Member
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
I’m visiting San Fransisco at the moment and have to say I have been taught a lesson in the upper bounds of irony.
My wife and I had lunch at sandwich store next to the Jewish Art Museum… the doors were all closed and they were serving through a window as a security measure. We thought it was just due to raised tensions, but when we walked down the road we heard shouting and saw a huge ‘Free Palestine’ march that had planned its route to March passed the museum. People were carrying signs such as ‘Resistance is justified’ as well as others depicting Palestinians as fighting back against protesters. I was surprised that there was such a large Muslim presence in the LGBTQI+ capital of the world.
We avoided the crowd as bad walked down to the Bayside later only to realise that’s where the match had ended so they could shout their grievances. One of which a young lady with the microphone shouted about how their community remembers 9/11 because of the persecution that Arab people experienced (I can remember some other more significant suffering myself), also I was surprised by the number of people from the LGBTQI+ community in attendance in the crowd. Wouldn’t have thought there were too many shared values among the groups…
We made it through the crowd and found somewhere to have a drink. Then the protesters dispersed and many came to where we were sitting, and many ordered wine and beer to enjoy in the warm afternoon sun.
So from what I learned from today is, a significant number of patriotic Palestinians enjoy the freedoms of Western democracy, which is entirely against the principles of their religion, their ‘oppressors’ have to take extra precautions to protect themselves from them, child murder, rape and kidnapping is apparently justified ‘resistance’, Arabs were the real victims of 9/11, the LGBTQI+ community are happy to march in unity with people who would prefer for them not to exist and the best way for Palestinians to relax after a long march under oppression is to enjoy a beer or wine in the afternoon sun.
Absolute fucking clown World stuff.
My wife and I had lunch at sandwich store next to the Jewish Art Museum… the doors were all closed and they were serving through a window as a security measure. We thought it was just due to raised tensions, but when we walked down the road we heard shouting and saw a huge ‘Free Palestine’ march that had planned its route to March passed the museum. People were carrying signs such as ‘Resistance is justified’ as well as others depicting Palestinians as fighting back against protesters. I was surprised that there was such a large Muslim presence in the LGBTQI+ capital of the world.
We avoided the crowd as bad walked down to the Bayside later only to realise that’s where the match had ended so they could shout their grievances. One of which a young lady with the microphone shouted about how their community remembers 9/11 because of the persecution that Arab people experienced (I can remember some other more significant suffering myself), also I was surprised by the number of people from the LGBTQI+ community in attendance in the crowd. Wouldn’t have thought there were too many shared values among the groups…
We made it through the crowd and found somewhere to have a drink. Then the protesters dispersed and many came to where we were sitting, and many ordered wine and beer to enjoy in the warm afternoon sun.
So from what I learned from today is, a significant number of patriotic Palestinians enjoy the freedoms of Western democracy, which is entirely against the principles of their religion, their ‘oppressors’ have to take extra precautions to protect themselves from them, child murder, rape and kidnapping is apparently justified ‘resistance’, Arabs were the real victims of 9/11, the LGBTQI+ community are happy to march in unity with people who would prefer for them not to exist and the best way for Palestinians to relax after a long march under oppression is to enjoy a beer or wine in the afternoon sun.
Absolute fucking clown World stuff.
laynelane
Member
I did a bit of follow-up on some of the news that has been talked about with regards to events happening in North America. The Air Canada pilot was fired:
montreal.ctvnews.ca
The student who penned that awful letter from N.Y.U is currently in the process of being voted out as President of the Student Bar Association and a group of CEOs (via Bill Ackman) have asked for a list of the students who signed a similar letter at Harvard. This is so they won't inadvertently hire these people in the future.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/nyu-law-harvard-hamas-israel.html
www.cnn.com
Air Canada pilot fired after anti-Israel social media posts
An Air Canada pilot has been fired after he shared anti-Israel social media posts of himself during a protest in Montreal.
The student who penned that awful letter from N.Y.U is currently in the process of being voted out as President of the Student Bar Association and a group of CEOs (via Bill Ackman) have asked for a list of the students who signed a similar letter at Harvard. This is so they won't inadvertently hire these people in the future.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/nyu-law-harvard-hamas-israel.html
Harvard student groups issued an anti-Israel statement. CEOs want them blacklisted | CNN Business
Billionaire hedge fund CEO Bill Ackman and several other business leaders are demanding Harvard University release the names of students whose organizations signed on to a letter blaming solely Israel for the deadly attacks by Hamas.
www.cnn.com
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The West being next means only they would be immediately crushed all the faster. Terrorists have the element of surprise and the fear it brings, but they hold no actual ability to conquer and maintain control. A scattered resistance of poorly trained guerilla fighters stand no chance over the organized militaries of the civilized world and they know that. There is a reason that the terrorist attack on Israel is the first 9/11 level attack on a western power since 9/11 itself. After the attack on New York the Middle East learned hard and fast that any kind of major attack on western targets will be met with swift and unyielding force no matter where you hide or who you hide behind.
The US and its allies will find you and they will kill you if the line is crossed so badly that you leave them no choice but to respond. Hamas is now learning that lesson again as we speak. Hopefully the lesson sticks this time.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
All these people shouting "resistance" don't know what real resistance is or looks like. Yet they have ample examples from history... From all over the world ... What HAMAS did wasn't resistance... It was barbarism.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
LMBO! His dad died during 9/11 ... A terrorist attack... He felt some solidarity with the israelis... And he showed empathy to both Israeli and Palestinian children. It was a story about how, after his dad died, he found some healing in comedy.
I wasn't prepared for that. It actually felt very heartwarming.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Resistance would have been attacks on the IDF or their infrastructure. It would have been attacks on symbolic sites of the Israel government.
Targeting civilians and indiscriminate murder is like you said. Barbarism.
hyperbertha
Member
Never underestimate humanity's potential for hypocrisy. Especially from those who try and tell others how to live.
DeaDPo0L84
Member
The west is falling already, just not in the way you're thinking.
Venom Snake
Member
Well, the West also had no problems to side with the Arabs when they planned to divide the Ottoman Empire. It doesn't matter how big your case is, but how good your advocates are, that's the real irony. So nothing you describe surprises me in the slightest.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
Not so many ‘oppressed’ Westerners escaping to the Middle East though
Venom Snake
Member
Well, the West has the best advocates, so why would they try?
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nush
Member
“I support current that thing” effect in action.
Gp1
Member
The math problem necessary to be solved for stealth was so complex for the computers at that time that the solution was to simply design a poligonal plane.
Anyway the entire development story is fantastic.
“Beheaded Babies” Report Spread Wide and Fast — but Israel Military Won’t Confirm It
The Israel Defense Forces could not confirm a horrific claim that Hamas beheaded babies during a weekend assault, a spokesperson for the military told The Intercept.theintercept.com
They were unverified based on the testimony of "an Israeli soldier" when media were allowed in the kibbutz. Ultimately it doesn't matter because children were killed, beheaded or not, but it does expose medias bias to jump and run with a story.
IDF send pictures of it to every major news media in the world on Friday corroborating what they were telling since the beginning of the week.
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funkygunther
Banned
FunkMiller
Member
Calm down a bit. They’d all fucked off by evening.
We get protests like this all the fucking time - usually with far more people.
Theres not going to be some sort uprising in the west by Palestinians and their sympathisers. There’s not a lot of them. They are loud, but a very small part of our community.
None of this will result in any kind of threat to the west’s hegemony. Social media amplifies things to a silly degree.
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FunkMiller
Member
Never in a million years.
As stated, Russia hasn’t done a damn thing when its own armed forces have been attacked on ‘Russian’ land.
If the US steps and fucks Iran, Putin will come out and condemn it, and then hide back in his palace.
FunkMiller
Member
The Israeli Prime Minister’s official account posted images of the murdered babies.
funkygunther
Banned
The contention is the beheadings, not the murdering
Or buy a longer table.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The PM of Israel posted pics on their official Twitter account.
Doesn't get more official than that.
FunkMiller
Member
I don’t think the method by which they murdered babies should be any kind of barometer for Israel’s response, or the way people should react.
funkygunther
Banned
That's nice, but not what the topic is. Please go back to read where this started and how your response does not follow.
FunkMiller
Member
You were claiming that there was media bias, regarding the reporting?
I’ve seen reliable journalists from decent news sources state they’ve had first hand accounts that they were beheaded. I am prepared to believe them.
But ultimately, the method by which Hamas executed multiple babies doesn’t fucking matter.
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funkygunther
Banned
Who then? Because so far you gave me the Israeli PM who isn't a journalist
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Folks were getting mad at me and others when we said "there's been no official word about the supposed baby beheadings" ... Acting like we were Hamas sympathizers... But now that's not the point? That was MY point the entire time! That kids and babies were murdered... The beheading rumors makes Hamas look even more monstrous ... Folks were going along with that, which came from one soldier, as if it was verifiable fact...
Like I've said this ENTIRE time, Hamas are monsters... Killing kids and sexually assaulting women and beheading people for no reason ...
Like I've said this ENTIRE time, Hamas are monsters... Killing kids and sexually assaulting women and beheading people for no reason ...
funkygunther
Banned
If my information is outdated I'd like updated information. This is all I'm asking for. But that updated information has to be accurate which is why people get frustrated when I stick to a specific point, even if it's their fault for not keeping up with the conversation.
FunkMiller
Member
I rather think in this case the desire to unpick exact media reporting methods in the aftermath of atrocities like this is not the best use of your time.
Whether babies are beheaded or not is really not a valid dividing line for arguing the merits of how media reports conflict.
I’ll also add that media often soft pedals atrocities to its viewing audience to prevent reprisal attacks against innocent people. The bataclan massacre had details largely withheld from major publications for that reason, for instance.
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pennythoughts
Member
I'm inclined to believe Israel regarding the 70 dead civilians traveling along the safe route. I don't see a reason for Israel to attack a convoy of civilians and stop at one strike. Hamas traditionally has no problem with using Palestinians as human shields/propaganda tools. If Israel struck a convoy because it had a VIP they would have claimed so already.
I'm not sure how one proves or disproves if it was the IDF or Hamas either way.
I'm not sure how one proves or disproves if it was the IDF or Hamas either way.
Wildebeest
Member
Most people don't want the exact details on what happened here. The use of language might be vague and excessive, but what else is vague and excessive is a move to create a miasma of doubt and distrust about the reporting that leads to conspiracy theories being blindly accepted.
funkygunther
Banned
You don't get to choose what's best use of my time I'm afraid. Information has to be accurate, and when the question is around the method then that is what has to be accurate. That you misrepresented my argument (murdered not beheaded) then claimed there were first hand accounts that you can't source is testament to how important being accurate is.
ShadowNate
Member
Is it though?
It's the same degree of appaling to me. I think to everyone. Or it should be
funkygunther
Banned
Yes it is, and yes it is. You can follow the thread back to where it's specifically about beheading, and where I also said that in the big picture it doesn't matter.
FunkMiller
Member
Do you really believe that? Because to me there’s no difference between cutting a baby’s head off and simply knifing them to death and setting fire to the corpse. Or burning them alive. Or shooting them.
What the fuck even is this conversation?
Yeah, but they burned some alive and just cut the throat of others, that's way less bad guys. Actually Hamas was almost gentle with these babies and kids, because beheading is really the most awful thing you can do to them.
Israel releases images of babies murdered and burned by Hamas
Israel today released harrowing images of tiny babies who were murdered and burned by Hamas terrorists amid their ruthless attacks this weekend that saw hundreds of civilians killed.
Maybe when you shoot a baby in close range his head gets cut off, so some thought they beheaded, honesly, Israel media is not even focusing on that. Mostly because nobody wants to talk about what they've done, only Zaka people who collect and identify the dead know. There's also a reason why it takes so long to identify the dead and why the numbers keeps rising, because some are so disfigured it's hard to identify.
I'll also add, that it's not like first responders came in for an instagram selfie with dead bodies. They came in with respect, and probably shot some stuff as they went in.
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FunkMiller
Member
To my mind, the reporting has clearly and accurately stated that babies were slaughtered by Hamas. I’ve seen reporters talking about beheading, and I have no reason to suspect them of telling anything but the truth.
Im sure this isn‘t your intention, but this argument starts to sound like trying to accuse the media of bias towards Israel… which is always what terrorist groups and conspiracy nuts like to trot out when atrocities are reported on.
I’m following Sky and the BBC very closely, and everything seems rightly even handed and as accurate as possible.
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funkygunther
Banned
The press know that beheading of babies is more sensational, they do not use it synonymously with murder. If it was verified it would be even more widely reported as that, but as it stands journalists that did relay that report had to clarify it.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
As I said in my post, when I said (a few pages ago) how it wasn't verified that baby beheadings had taken place (I wasn't the only one saying that), folks in this thread were acting like I (and others) were Hamas sympathizers and antisemitic. I (and others in this thread) SAW that babies and children had been murdered... That's horrific enough...
That's my point... That baby killing is evil... No matter how it happened.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Thoughts?
Never watched Levin before, personally.
Never watched Levin before, personally.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
All those people going after ONE person getting back the flag ... Pitiful! Such hatred!
And FUCK that terrorist!
Wildebeest
Member
A lot of details about the holocaust were unknown while WW2 was going on. The intelligence agencies knew some things about it but releasing details to the press might not have been believed or seen to be demoralising in a time of war. I don't know about any deliberate conspiracies in the press to cover up crimes and minimise the importance of them. Maybe there was some bias there like in atom bombs being used on Japan where the reporting was uneven in the west with the New York Times having a journalist who observed it from the plane dropping the bomb and described it poetically with awe. While the UK press, who had suffered bombing campaigns, was shocked by the devastation and was imagining how bad it would have been if the weapons were used on British cities.
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