Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Dang, what a fantastic episode. Neil Druckmann's debut and he nailed it!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part 1 OT | Endure & Survive
- Thread starter Represent.
- Start date
Bartski
Gold Member
The last scene with Tess was a giant WTF, made no sense at first and left me thinking this may actually go to shit real fast...
But then I realized this is once again my vantage point bias knowing the game inside out and it really dawned on me - what they're doing here is solving one of the biggest plot holes of the game, one I see rarely discussed among the noise beatng dead horses over Joel's motivations and such.
Infected killing and devouring people by default actually makes no sense. You can try justify it in a number of ways but at its core - keeping future hosts alive is the only biologically valid way such parasite would behave.
I still hope Part 3 will stay true to the original lore, but I wouldn't mind taking some inspirations. Just bring spores back and we're good.
Overalll, a huge win for Dr. Uckmann. Curious how much more directing he gets offered in Season 2 and 3 and what does it mean for the future of his Dog duties.
But then I realized this is once again my vantage point bias knowing the game inside out and it really dawned on me - what they're doing here is solving one of the biggest plot holes of the game, one I see rarely discussed among the noise beatng dead horses over Joel's motivations and such.
Infected killing and devouring people by default actually makes no sense. You can try justify it in a number of ways but at its core - keeping future hosts alive is the only biologically valid way such parasite would behave.
I still hope Part 3 will stay true to the original lore, but I wouldn't mind taking some inspirations. Just bring spores back and we're good.
Overalll, a huge win for Dr. Uckmann. Curious how much more directing he gets offered in Season 2 and 3 and what does it mean for the future of his Dog duties.
Last edited:
Ulysses 31
Member
Like I said, with the connections/deals stuff she generally had the lead. Joel in the game raised questions, concerns and a little pushback at times and there were a few moments when Tess looked at Joel to see if he agrees. In the show he seemed a little more passive, going along type to me. It's not a huge deal so far to me, I'll have to see the rest of the season before making up my mind.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Tess took over the conversation. THAT'S being in charge. Tess was ready to shoot Ellie after finding out she was infected. Joel would often say things to Tess and then she would push back. Joel only really spoke up to Tess outside of the QZ to Tess when he felt they were in danger and that's when Tess backed down and became more sympathetic.
The things you're saying makes no sense if you actually listen to what they're saying.
killatopak
Member
I was going to say they did an amazing job at the end but I rewatched the game version and it is really much better in my opinion and highlights Joel and Tess’ relationship more.
IF I didn’t know anything about the game though, I would say they did a pretty great job.
The infected being connected will have huge implication this point forward. I expect a lot of different set pieces that isn’t in the game.
IF I didn’t know anything about the game though, I would say they did a pretty great job.
The infected being connected will have huge implication this point forward. I expect a lot of different set pieces that isn’t in the game.
Last edited:
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Only thing I can think of is they wanted to minimize their relationship to highlight him opening up more with Ellie being something special.
Ulysses 31
Member
Which conversation? The Robert stuff? Marlene's new deal? Either way, it involved a deal I assume she made earlier so Joel let's her do all the talking. Tess would push back and convince Joel in the game, in the show Joel seems to need less convincing to get on board
Tripolygon
Banned
Yes it is an obvious pattern (Tess, Maria, Marlene, Seraphites, Abby, Ellie) and ideology driven. Is there any piece of writing that's not informed subconsciously or deliberately in part by the writers ideology? Neil wanted to write characters that are women his daughter at that time could see and be inspired by. It is a deliberate opposition to the damsel in distress trope. It's a theme in a lot Naughty Dog games, the women in uncharted are just as capable as the men if not more (Nadine).
Last edited:
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I think he has a lot of possible futures
- Could be the next President of PlayStation Studios
- Could be the next President or Co-President of PlayStation Productions
- Could just stay as Co-President of Naughty Dog
Could do any of the three and still write TLOUP3
If you compare Druckmann with say Tetsuya Nomura, Neil has helped turn Naughty Dog into a multibillion-dollar studio whereas Nomura has really taken the life out of Final Fantasy and out of Square Enix. His stock is at an all-time high and Naughty Dog will probably need to quickly ramp up hiring if they're going to
Finish developing & Maintain TLOU Online
Develop TLOUP3
Develop Original IP
Reboot Uncharted with or without taking the lead
Remake or Reboot Jak and Daxter to coincide with the movie
Naughty Dog is going to need more staff than Bungie to do all of this. I could see them doubling in size in the next two years.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I quoted the dialog. Everyone isn't a conversation with Robert's men and Marlene, it also contains conversations with Joel.
You can't say it was 40/60 when she's leading nearly every single conversation in the game. If you remove deals and conversations with others then you barely have any dialog with Tess in the game.
Joel was actually more in charge on the TV show by comparison.
Ulysses 31
Member
Depends how preachy it can get, it's just something that's present and not a core part of the plot it usually doesn't bother me. I don't expect writers not to be influenced by their ideologies as long as they're subtle enough about it (and fairly present opposing views if they do).
TLOU story was pretty good so that's a good example (IMO) of being subtle enough with the women bosses theme.
Ulysses 31
Member
And I said Tess has moments where she looks at Joel to see if he agrees, she generally might have the lead when they're smuggling but the bigger decisions she seemed to verify with Joel in the game. I got that impression less in the TV show.
Even if I change the 40/60 thing for you it would still be lower than what I rate it for the TV show.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
They have actually doubled their studio size in the last 18 months. From ~325 to ~760 now.
But I agree with you. With the money that'll be pouring into Naughty Dog now and the expectations to work on multiple games: a new IP as well as speed production of TLOU 3, they need to be a 1300-1500 people studio to do all that.
- Maintain TLOU Online
- Develop TLOU 3
- Develop a new IP
- Support the next Uncharted
- Build an internal xDev team (like Guerrilla) to expand TLOU universe by outsourcing to other studios and have them build side stories and games with different characters.
John Bilbo
Member
Maybe they will use this as a new horde based game mechanic in the upcoming Factions game or in Part 3 of the main game series.
Grildon Tundy
Member
Big fan of the part in the museum where Joel leans against a column with the Clicker in the background while he tries to silently reload his revolver. Camera pans so you can't see the Clicker anymore, then you hear it right next to Joel. Good, tense stuff!
Hugare
Member
Maybe, and I know its hypocrital to say this on a game about zombies, but it's so gamey and unrealistic
EDIT: And tho I love the flashback scenes, like the one with the doctor on this episode, it takes away from Joel and Ellie a bit.
TLOU is all about Joel/Ellie relationship. Trying to develop world building even further is cool, but its a trade off. And it may take away from some emotional impact later on with the main characters.
Last edited:
HTK
Banned
I'm over the whole debate about Pascal and Bella being Joel and Ellie. They've done a great job since Episode 1 and I feel like that's the toughest sell than probably later episodes. It's the last thing on my mind, they are Joel and Ellie. The End.
In terms of Neil Duckmann, he's done a great job directing Episode 2. I'm sure Neil is also learning quite a bit on the job of directing and being involved in the show, surely this will translate into future Naughty Dog games that he's involved in.
In terms of Neil Duckmann, he's done a great job directing Episode 2. I'm sure Neil is also learning quite a bit on the job of directing and being involved in the show, surely this will translate into future Naughty Dog games that he's involved in.
Gaelyon
Member
Episode 2 was great and very faithful to the early part of the game. Joel and ellie crawling at the museum with torches, joel reloading, the amazing makeup of the clickers, their strange walking around and the chilling clicking sound were all familiar and immersive.
There were many small interesting snippets like the little frog jumping on the piano or Joel uncontrolled quick look at his broken watch just after talking to ellie on the roof.
The intro at Jakarta was well done but didn't feel that realistic. That fungi doctor came to the conclusion that bombing her city killing millions of peoples was the only way in a few minutes.
Tess's fate was so creepy it was a relief when everything is blown away.
Anyway it sound like we'll have a prequel intro each episode ?
There were many small interesting snippets like the little frog jumping on the piano or Joel uncontrolled quick look at his broken watch just after talking to ellie on the roof.
The intro at Jakarta was well done but didn't feel that realistic. That fungi doctor came to the conclusion that bombing her city killing millions of peoples was the only way in a few minutes.
Tess's fate was so creepy it was a relief when everything is blown away.
Anyway it sound like we'll have a prequel intro each episode ?
Last edited:
John Bilbo
Member
Yup it's like a hivemind mechanic. Maybe in the end it will play out in killing the fungus.
So what I got away from the fungal doctor was she had studied fungi her whole life and her belief was there is no cure and there is no vaccine to be made.
I think this info was purposefully set up in the beginning of the second episode when in the second episode the main characters are making a decision about how far are they willing to risk their own lives for a possible cure or vaccine.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Episode 2 was great, and Neil nailed the mood and Clicker creepiness it in his directing debut.
The actors being Joel and Ellie are starting to quickly grow on me, and this episode was definitely more convincing in their dialogue and banter with one another. Anna Torv was fantastic as Tess.
The actors being Joel and Ellie are starting to quickly grow on me, and this episode was definitely more convincing in their dialogue and banter with one another. Anna Torv was fantastic as Tess.
Last edited:
Mibu no ookami
Banned
The cherry on top is the absolute the venom and toxicity ND^2 has received.
These people couldn't keep up with all the good will the show has received and that renewed good will the games are receiving.
I don't think I've ever seen such a completely devastating comeback against a toxic group in gaming.
These people couldn't keep up with all the good will the show has received and that renewed good will the games are receiving.
I don't think I've ever seen such a completely devastating comeback against a toxic group in gaming.
Hugare
Member
The doctor saying that there's no cure, and the same thing with the first doctor on Episode 1 didnt land right with me
The cool thing with the original ending is the duality. You dont know if Joel made the right call or not. Maybe they would have made a vaccine?
But the tv show is making Joel's decision obvious, and it will take something away from the ending.
Fools idol
Banned
Sorry if I am misreading your post, but what toxic group are you talking about exactly? people that don't like the show? bar the odd 'waaahh, black people playing white characters' drivel it's pretty much unanimous love around here which is good to see.
I mean, someones dislike of something doesn't make them toxic.. lol
Last edited:
John Bilbo
Member
You might be right. But then again we don't know how the story will play out in the end.
Slothbeing1209
Member
Have you ever heard about Tlou p2 subreddit? : ))
Pretty sure there're some people on Neogaf joined that subreddit
Last edited:
Fools idol
Banned
Ah ok got it. I guess there has been some bullshittery over there then.
Honestly, on a purely critical / personal taste neutral standpoint there is very, very hard to find faults wth the show. It's that good quality, and a top tier level of an adaption.
Tbh the bar has been set very high for future game-to-tv series.
saintjules
Gold Member
I agree with this. I mean, it would be really weird if they didn't nail the Clicker sounds, especially with Neil directing. It's like nailing Spider-Man's web slinging in the game. It just has to get nailed right.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I'm talking about the toxic group that review bombed TLOU2, have hounded Naughty Dog with hate comments, and have been calling Neil, "Neil Cuckmann" for almost 3 years...
Fools idol
Banned
Yeah, re-read your post again and realise what you said, my bad.
I thought you were specifically talking about the thread were in.
I understand why people disliked TLOU2 but to react the way they did is just pathetic. The game and writing was amazing, and it was brutal of them to kill of a beloved character, but it worked out for an amazing story.
Bartski
Gold Member
his co-workers call him Cuckmann on twitter, including Craig Mazin. It's a total meme right now, and likely his nickname at the studio
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I loved TLOU2 as well but the game’s writing being amazing is subjective. Many people outright hated the story, and their view is a valid one even if I disagree. Having been a fan of MGS2 & FFVIII, I have accepted that some people will hate things that I love and thats ok.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
That's because they're leaning into it.
It's not said in an endearing way by trolls on the internet.
Melfice7
Member
Yup, so far, every scene thats almost identical in dialogue is much better in the game
John Bilbo
Member
I consider this to be the basis of every civil conversation.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think it's because of the casting. The characters dont resemble what we had already seen on screen which is unlike book adaptations that only relied on our imagination of these characters.
The show does a great job bringing over set locales, dialogue and entire setpieces from the game trying to stay true to the source material, but the fucked up the casting which is arguably the most important part of staying true to the source material. For example, they made a scene out of a very missable Ellie side encounter in the game. Ive played the game 6 times and never saw this scene.
But changing Joel's iconic SHOW IT TO ME line and Christ reaction to a very muted Pedro reaction is a very bizarre decision by Neil. I get that hollywood leads are supposed to be subdued and stoic but it just doesnt work when you start the episode with Joel still shaking after killing a dude the night before.
I swear if they change a single line from that ending or change anything about that the Ellie killing Dave scene when the audio cuts out, im gonna riot.
Last edited:
Tripolygon
Banned
How about you just enjoy this new take on the characters? They deliberately discouraged the actors from watching the game or anything relating to the game so they can give an honest portrayal instead of trying to imitate what was done by Ashley and Troy etc. Even Troy himself is loving the things Pedro is adding like Joel pulling away from Tess when she revealed she was infected. It was not scripted, it was an honest reaction by Pedro.
Or riot. Lol
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Show is fucking fantastic. Another huge L for anybody who said this girl could not play Ellie. She's fantastic. The more she gets a chance to speak and engage, the more impressive her character looks. I'm no longer solely focused on Joel. She's becoming as much of a favorite as Joel's character, if not slightly more.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
The more i think about it, the more i realize
The thing about this IP is that everything is both critically and commercially successful. And now it's only about to get bigger to the point that the TLOU2 criticism isn't even that loud anymore.
Benniewise de Clown
Banned
That idea is probably based on the fungal network all over the world.
Watch the "Fantastic Fungi" documentary on Netflix, really interesting stuff.
As for ep 2, it's a great episode and they've somehow managed to put the gameplay into the series, but it feels a bit rushed as well if you know the game.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
This was the very warning I made to others about Halo (yea, yea, I get it, others think it sucks, I love it), don't approach this show from the perspective where you are expecting every piece of what you know from the games to be the same. There needs to be room for writers to write, adjust, shorten and even expand on some things because they're working with a set format for a specific number of episodes in the first season. So sometimes they need to do less of a thing, other times they need to do more of a thing, and other times they need to change or relocate something else while still maintaining the spirit of its meaning, sorta like how they dropped that Master Chief's Silver Team in the Halo TV Series had lost a fellow Spartan in the same way that Chief's Blue Team lost a fellow Spartan in the Halo books. The name didn't have to be the same, the circumstances didn't need to be fully fleshed out or exactly identical, but they serve the same narrative purpose, so the name not being Samuel like in the books and with Blue Team is irrelevant.
So yea, this show is fantastic.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
It's extremely fucking clever, which is why exactly why I'm always open-minded to these kinds of shows being allowed to explore a bit of creative freedom with the material.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Finally caught up and watched both Episodes. WOW I am very impressed!!!
I was not expecting it to be this good !!!
The casting is spot on. Now we know why the Part1 exists haha.
Ellie is my biggest surprise. I was expecting only big weird forehead and she is AMAZING.
Joel is Perfect.
I was not expecting it to be this good !!!
The casting is spot on. Now we know why the Part1 exists haha.
Ellie is my biggest surprise. I was expecting only big weird forehead and she is AMAZING.
Joel is Perfect.
eastcoastkody
Member
this is just further solidfying my stance that Last of Us is one of the most overrated games of all time. Because the show is way better than the game. And the shows not amazing or anything. The first episode was pretty good. The 2nd is alright. In scale of HBO shows its average. Its no game of thrones or Sopranos. And still its light years above the game.
Im on my 3rd or 4th attempt to play the game. I've quit every time because i hate the gameplay. And boy are the first couple hours annoying af. Maybe one reason the show is good is because Pedro Pascal isn't fist fighting or putting a rear naked choke on a zombie every 3 minutes
Im on my 3rd or 4th attempt to play the game. I've quit every time because i hate the gameplay. And boy are the first couple hours annoying af. Maybe one reason the show is good is because Pedro Pascal isn't fist fighting or putting a rear naked choke on a zombie every 3 minutes
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Bigger decisions she seemed to very with Joel?
How many times has this happened in the game? Tell me what happened.
bargeparty
Member
Drive by post
show is ok, they're faithful on some things and making odd/dumb choices with others. You can't beat perfection so why even try?
the more I idly think about these eps the more it annoys me
show is ok, they're faithful on some things and making odd/dumb choices with others. You can't beat perfection so why even try?
the more I idly think about these eps the more it annoys me
eastcoastkody
Member
the only change they've made in the show, that might not be better than the games, is the change from spores to tendrils. Everything else has been better. Unlike George Lucas who sat around for a decade deciding how to ruin his movies. Druckman at least took the time to say, wait that was stupid why did i do that a decade ago, lets change that
