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[Deleted member 1159]

The whole “spends time on characters you’ll never see again” critique is so whack. That’s basically everyone you encounter in TLOU not named Tommy or his wife. They all die and you move on to the next chapter.

 

[Toons]

The Critical Drinker is a successful novelist that's worked with the likes of James Patterson.

You may not like him, but I doubt very much he is an idiot incapable of understanding storytelling.

A writer who spends his time s***ing on other people's more popular works isn't someone that screams successful to me.

But even if it did hes had plenty of awful takes at various points that have displayed he largely doesnt understand basic character writing, even aside form this one. Just suggesting that a characters narrative only matters so long as they are alive in the story is hilariously bad. I could list hundreds if examples that make plain how ridiculous that is.

That is, if he's not just pandering to his base in these videos... which he most likely is. Gotta get that bread somehow.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I don't feel like watching two men making out with my wife. It's ok if you do.

I don’t think your wife has enough beard for them. You’re safe.

 

[Chiggs]

The whole “spends time on characters you’ll never see again” critique is so whack. That’s basically everyone you encounter in TLOU not named Tommy or his wife. They all die and you move on to the next chapter.

Okay, how about: does nothing to move the main narrative forward? You want a touching vignette that can stand on its own...might I recommend Black Mirror's San Junipero?

Oh, but the letter and the key...gosh, looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place now!

 

[Toons]

I’ve read this, weak review. Guy didn’t understand anything about the episode or the show and adding stuff like “this isn’t innovative” just makes it worse. Guy is clueless.

Yeah just saying "____ did it already" over and over again doesn't actually day anything. Everything's been done.

Hes trying that post-modernist "this is well made but its trying to be well made and thats bad" angle. Thats a hard angle to sell.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Okay, how about: does nothing to move the main narrative forward? You want a touching vignette that can stand on its own...might I recommend Black Mirror's San Junipero?

Oh, but the letter and the key...gosh, looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place now!

I’d point out again that the Bill sequence in the game and the one in the show end up with Ellie and Joel in the same place: driving off to Pittsburgh in Bill’s truck.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Okay, how about: does nothing to move the main narrative forward? You want a touching vignette that can stand on its own...might I recommend Black Mirror's San Junipero?

Oh, but the letter and the key...gosh, looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place now!

Bill’s letter is the catalyst that drives Joel to do what he did.

 

[OsirisBlack]

what else would it be?

Have you ever heard a straight man or woman say?

“homosexuals don’t like watching straight sex, must be repressed heterosexual feelings. I bet that guy/girl is insecure and immature.”

I haven’t. I do hear it in the other direction quite often.

People have a right to like or dislike whatever it is they want. I don’t like rollercoasters, bad movies, or Twinkies.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The whole “spends time on characters you’ll never see again” critique is so whack. That’s basically everyone you encounter in TLOU not named Tommy or his wife. They all die and you move on to the next chapter.

I suppose they're pointing to the lack of moving the Joel/Ellie plot forward and that they'll probably won't be referenced to anymore in the series.

 

[EviLore]

And with that, let’s move on

 

[Chiggs]

Bill’s letter is the catalyst that drives Joel to do what he did.

The episode was a buck-twenty, my dude. I certainly cannot discount the resonance it had with a whole lot of people, but it was clearly a side dish. For me, the question becomes: will we be left wanting when all is said and done? If so, I know which episode I'm looking at as to where it all started.

I’d point out again that the Bill sequence in the game and the one in the show end up with Ellie and Joel in the same place: driving off to Pittsburgh...

My stance is that I would have just preferred Pittsburgh, or some of Ellie, Bill and Joel. Hope next week's episode is just as carefully tended to as this week's was.

 

[vpance]

Huge kudos to Vulture for having the guts to publish this negative review:

https://www.vulture.com/article/the-last-of-us-bill-frank-empty-prestige-storytelling.html

When the Max Richter song played I couldn't help but chuckle. Maybe almost as cheap of an emotional trick as having Ellie kill the dog to show how she is terrible.

 

[Faust]

Talk. About. The. Show.

 

[Insane Metal]

Ok!

I'll keep watching this. I love the game.

 

[Woggleman]

I went out to dinner with my wife and heard a group of old ladies talking about this show. It has blown up big.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Talk. About. The. Show.

Y’all got any thoughts on wine pairings with rabbit?

 

[Pedro Motta]

Boring episode. But of course it'll be praised to high heavens because gay. They should have shown Frank pounding Bill's hairy ass. Cowards.

Wouldn't you like to see that, you repressed little rascal.

 

[DForce]

Nope, I said the game has enough to motivate Joel implying there is set up and pay offs for things happening later on. I didn't brush anything aside. I merely speculated about the nature of the changes we might see in the show's future.

No, his argument was that it adds to Joel's motivation and you called it a weird take because he didn't need motivation in the game because he was going to do it anyways. You said he didn't need to see a living couple without realizing that the scenes from the game and the show have different meanings in connection with his story and motivation.

And he still wants to cut ties with Ellie and forget her so my point stands that Joel didn't care enough for her at that point.

It doesn't. What you're saying is not backed up by the game's plot.

Well it was the case he had to continue on with Ellie alone for a moment because Tommy refused to take Ellie off his hands for family reasons. The bandit attack changed that but then Ellie went off on her own before Joel could inform her that he wouldn't be coming with her.

I didn't say that scene was the reason he decided to continue travelling with Ellie later on, that's a weird reach of yours. I brought that scene up to show Joel wants to dump Ellie but he's still stuck with her because of Tommy's initial refusal. In case that wasn't clear to you, I hope it is now.

No, his response to saying I'm not your daughter and we're going our separate ways is out of anger. What caused him to change is when Ellie told him that he cares about him and that she would be scared with someone else.

It's only because Tommy's too deeply rooted where he is that Joel stays with Ellie. The show will probably chance it though.

You clearly said Tommy's too deeply rooted where he is and Joel stays with Ellie. In episode 3, Joel tells Ellie that Tommy will take her where she needs to go, which is slightly different from the game. We already know there's going to be the scene where Joel tells Ellie that she doesn't know what loss is and that the same (or similar) conversation will play out.

So you agree in that moment of anger Joel hadn't opened his heart enough for Ellie yet, great. The regret came later as well as his change of heart, like I said.

Nope, that's not what happened. Joel's heart changed towards Ellie before they made it to Tommy's. That is why he was scared of either losing her or watching her die. In the very next chapter, you see Ellie and Joel being closer than ever before, which indicates that a change of heart happened prior. So if his regret came later, then what scene shows it? The look on Joel's face while riding back with Tommy shows he felt sorry about what he said to Ellie. He wouldn't have this regret unless he loved her, something of which he did not display early in the game.

 

[Melfice7]

That scene with the infected made Ellie seem like a fucking psychopath and the shootout scene made Bill look like an idiot, two pretty big far cries from their characters

They also robbed us of Bill and Ellies interactions that were hilarious

 

[DeepEnigma]

That scene with the infected made Ellie seem like a fucking psychopath and the shootout scene made Bill look like an idiot, two pretty big far cries from their characters

They also robbed us of Bill and Ellies interactions that were hilarious

Ellie is a psychopath, lol. Don’t let the little cute demeanor in the first game fool you. There were hints in the first game as well, and it blossomed fully in the second.

Bill also had the explosives and the spotlights shining at them during a downpour, they didn’t know where the shots were coming from, and he didn’t want the bullets to head toward his house with Frank in it. Bill was also a savage just like that in the game. He was probably ‘slicing the pie’ sticking and moving instead of staying in a stationary target of a building that can get surrounded. It wasn’t until Frank distracted his ass whooping he was dealing.

Now granted he should have been behind cover, but I don’t think he was there the entire time. He wasn’t when Frank looked out the window.

 

[AutumnLeaves]

Okay, how about: does nothing to move the main narrative forward? You want a touching vignette that can stand on its own...might I recommend Black Mirror's San Junipero?

Oh, but the letter and the key...gosh, looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place now!

But it does drive the main narrative forward...?

 

[Chiggs]

But it does drive the main narrative forward...?

Okay, maybe explain to me again how it did? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...and I'll own up to it.

Because what it seemed like to me was that it took its sweet time showing you the detailed progression of Bill and Frank's relationship, only to introduce current day Joel and Ellie at the very end, and then have them leave for Pittsburgh after reading Bill's letter and getting the key.

So if you're going to say it was the letter and key that moves things forward, well, I mean...I hope you can see where I'm coming from on this one.

 

[AutumnLeaves]

Okay, maybe explain to me again how it did? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...and I'll own up to it.

Because what it seemed like to me was that it took its sweet time showing you the detailed progression of Bill and Frank's relationship, only to introduce current day Joel and Ellie at the very end, and then have them leave for Pittsburgh after reading Bill's letter and getting the key.

So if you're going to say it was the letter and key that moves things forward, well, I mean...I hope you can see where I'm coming from on this one.

No, I really don't see where you're coming from.

The episode shows life of two characters, albeit in more detail. Just because it takes a whole episode does not, in any way, make it stagnant.

So is that it? That it spends so much time to show their life that is bothering people?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Okay, maybe explain to me again how it did? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...and I'll own up to it.

Because what it seemed like to me was that it took its sweet time showing you the detailed progression of Bill and Frank's relationship, only to introduce current day Joel and Ellie at the very end, and then have them leave for Pittsburgh after reading Bill's letter and getting the key.

So if you're going to say it was the letter and key that moves things forward, well, I mean...I hope you can see where I'm coming from on this one.

Because without Frank, Bill would’ve still been a cold callous jaded misanthrope. Exactly what Joel was at the time.

The letter was to remind Joel that even in that shitty world, there are still things worth fighting for. That is why Joel got emotional outside and didn’t want Ellie to see that at the time. The letter was the catalyst to put into perspective which eventually awakens the love for Ellie. The someone worth fighting for, worth saving.

Reminded him of Sarah, and reminded him of Tess. What he sees as his failures, and a bitter hateful man for it.

That episode gave us a whole new perspective on Joel’s decision at the end.

He’s the tragic hero in this story.

 

[Tokio Blues]

What an episode. Fucking brilliant, just amazing, was a masterclass in story telling.

 

[Woggleman]

I don't know what this says about me but living that kind of life with my wife sounds like living the life in many ways. If he wasn't a paranoid prepper he would have ended up in that mass grave and Frank would have ended up in Boston barely existing. He was right to distrust authority.

 

[Ulysses 31]

No, his argument was that it adds to Joel's motivation and you called it a weird take because he didn't need motivation in the game because he was going to do it anyways. You said he didn't need to see a living couple without realizing that the scenes from the game and the show have different meanings in connection with his story and motivation.

Nope, another weird reach of yours. Never said game Joel didn't need motivation to grow closer to Ellie, I said several times now that the game gives enough motivations for Joel to start caring about Ellie. The weirdness came into play when the TV show came up with new things not in the game which is why I started speculating that some motivational things from the game might get cut or altered in future episodes.

It doesn't. What you're saying is not backed up by the game's plot.

Sure it does, just listen to what Joel says to Tommy before the attack and later on when he was about to leave Ellie with Tommy before they knew she had wandered off. Joel was ready to leave Ellie.

No, his response to saying I'm not your daughter and we're going our separate ways is out of anger. What caused him to change is when Ellie told him that he cares about him and that she would be scared with someone else.

And I believe Joel was still capable of cutting off Ellie form his life at that point when he said that.

You clearly said Tommy's too deeply rooted where he is and Joel stays with Ellie. In episode 3, Joel tells Ellie that Tommy will take her where she needs to go, which is slightly different from the game. We already know there's going to be the scene where Joel tells Ellie that she doesn't know what loss is and that the same (or similar) conversation will play out.

Because that's what Tommy tells Joel when he refuses to take off Ellie from him. We don't know if that dialogue will be in the TV show. Remember that Tommy and Joel are estranged in the TV show also and Tommy might not just do what Joel asks him to either.

Nope, that's not what happened. Joel's heart changed towards Ellie before they made it to Tommy's. That is why he was scared of either losing her or watching her die. In the very next chapter, you see Ellie and Joel being closer than ever before, which indicates that a change of heart happened prior. So if his regret came later, then what scene shows it? The look on Joel's face while riding back with Tommy shows he felt sorry about what he said to Ellie. He wouldn't have this regret unless he loved her, something of which he did not display early in the game.

Seems like a matter of opinion when exactly Joel had his change of heart but it seems clear it had occurred when he decided to continue alone with Ellie and sent Tommy back.

 

[Chiggs]

Because without Frank, Bill would’ve still been a cold callous jaded misanthrope. Exactly what Joel was at the time.

The letter was to remind Joel that even in that shitty world, there are still things worth fighting for. That is why Joel got emotional outside and didn’t want Ellie to see that at the time. The letter was the catalyst to put into perspective which eventually awakens the love for Ellie. The someone worth fighting for, worth saving.

Reminded him of Sarah, and reminded him of Tess. What he sees as his failures, and a bitter hateful man for it.

That episode gave us a whole new perspective on Joel’s decision at the end.

He’s the tragic hero in this story.

Gotcha. So the extra padding on the love story is arguably warranted because it helps round out Bill, which then serves to inspire Joel via the letter.

I can see why people dig the changes.

 

[Justin9mm]

Because without Frank, Bill would’ve still been a cold callous jaded misanthrope. Exactly what Joel was at the time.

The letter was to remind Joel that even in that shitty world, there are still things worth fighting for. That is why Joel got emotional outside and didn’t want Ellie to see that at the time. The letter was the catalyst to put into perspective which eventually awakens the love for Ellie. The someone worth fighting for, worth saving.

Reminded him of Sarah, and reminded him of Tess. What he sees as his failures, and a bitter hateful man for it.

That episode gave us a whole new perspective on Joel’s decision at the end.

He’s the tragic hero in this story.

Well said.

Unfortunately, a lot of ppl don't have the ability to interpret all that from watching it. Imo this is why some people can't understand the TLOU Part 2 story. They think they understand but they really don't.

 

[GametimeUK]

I like the fact we have gay representation on TV. The story itself for this episode was brilliant. The actor that played Bill was incredible and shown so much development through the episode. It was a great piece of self contained television, but it was a shit TLOU episode in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think we needed to focus on the relationship for over an hour. I also hate the amount they've cut from the game. Getting through Bill's traps, the school, the Bloater etc. I loved this part of the game. I also think Bill and Frank's relationship panned out better in the game too.

I just feel this episode took way too long establishing a relationship between two characters that we barely see interact with our main cast. I wonder if we will get similar episodes in the future. If we do it will make this episode seem less disjointed and out of place.

 

[Chiggs]

Well said.

Unfortunately, a lot of ppl don't have the ability to interpret all that from watching it. Imo this is why some people can't understand the TLOU Part 2 story. They think they understand but they really don't.

Well, I don’t want to spoil the moment of civility, but while I can understand why people like it and why the expansion is arguably needed/works, I just think I would have enjoyed a different usage of that time. It still feels indulgent. But hey, a lot of people loved what they got…

In terms of TLOU II, if there’s any mass confusion about its plot, which I don’t think there is, it has only itself to blame. The game has some of the worst pacing I’ve ever seen, courtesy of its constant use of flashbacks. It’s also painfully long.

Buy hey, at least we got to see Ellie cut an infected man this week, so when she becomes the Butcher of Seattle in Season 2, nobody can accuse her of going Daenerys Season 8 on us.

 

[DForce]

Nope, another weird reach of yours. Never said game Joel didn't need motivation to grow closer to Ellie, I said several times now that the game gives enough motivations for Joel to start caring about Ellie. The weirdness came into play when the TV show came up with new things not in the game which is why I started speculating that some motivational things from the game might get cut or altered in future episodes.

Sure it does, just listen to what Joel says to Tommy before the attack and later on when he was about to leave Ellie with Tommy before they knew she had wandered off. Joel was ready to leave Ellie.

It's like you're not even paying attention.

I specifically mentioned that Joel wanted to drop Ellie off with Tommy because he was afraid of losing her. Then you said it would be weird because he was planning on leaving her with Tommy. Losing means losing her in death. Now you're changing your argument so much that you're agreeing with what I said. It's ridiculous. lol If this was your original point, then you would have agreed with me from the beginning. You tried to paint a picture that Joel didn't care for Ellie that much because he was leaving her with Tommy.

It's only because Tommy's too deeply rooted where he is that Joel stays with Ellie.

Joel reaffirms he's not her father right after that so I don't know what you're smoking, the turning point for Joel is when he decides to continue the travel with Ellie later on.

Notice when you said "is that Joel stays with Ellie." It's clear that your original point was to say that he decides to stay with Ellie because Tommy refused. Joel was ready to hand Ellie off AFTER the attack, but she ran away and Joel and Tommy left to go find her. This wouldn't have happened if Ellie stayed unless Ellie convinced him to stay.

And I believe Joel was still capable of cutting off Ellie form his life at that point when he said that.

That's really not backed up because he showed instant regret.

Because that's what Tommy tells Joel when he refuses to take off Ellie from him. We don't know if that dialogue will be in the TV show. Remember that Tommy and Joel are estranged in the TV show also and Tommy might not just do what Joel asks him to either.

Seems like a matter of opinion when exactly Joel had his change of heart but it seems clear it had occurred when he decided to continue alone with Ellie and send Tommy back.

Ellie tells Joel he cares for him. Joel tells Ellie you're not my daughter and that they're going their separate ways. On the way back Joel showed regret. This is one scene after another. You don't show that expression on Joel's face unless you want the audience to see that he wanted to take back the words he said to Ellie. Most of what you're saying isn't backed up by the story lol

Here's the thing: Every scene has a purpose in the game and on the TV show. The scenes with Bill were in direct connection with his character and his motivations going forward. Joel obviously cared more for Ellie after the chapter with Herny and Sam compared to earlier in the game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Gotcha. So the extra padding on the love story is arguably warranted because it helps round out Bill, which then serves to inspire Joel via the letter.

I can see why people dig the changes.

I didn’t really see it as padding, but fleshing out a fan favorite side character, as well as telling a bittersweet story on how a man can change.

 

[Hugare]

I like the fact we have gay representation on TV. The story itself for this episode was brilliant. The actor that played Bill was incredible and shown so much development through the episode. It was a great piece of self contained television, but it was a shit TLOU episode in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think we needed to focus on the relationship for over an hour. I also hate the amount they've cut from the game. Getting through Bill's traps, the school, the Bloater etc. I loved this part of the game. I also think Bill and Frank's relationship panned out better in the game too.

I just feel this episode took way too long establishing a relationship between two characters that we barely see interact with our main cast. I wonder if we will get similar episodes in the future. If we do it will make this episode seem less disjointed and out of place.

Bill's journey is going to be Joel's journey

It's way more important to the story than any other sidecharacter arch. Even Tess.

The bloater, the traps, the school, all that was cool, but it had no purpose to the story. It just worked because it was a videogame, not a TV show.

And it took a long time to establish their relationship so it could resonate with viewers and build the bridge between their relationship and Joel/Ellie's

You may not enjoy slow paced episodes such as this one, but it executed what it tried to do masterfuly

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Bill's journey is going to be Joel's journey

It's way more important to the story than any other sidecharacter arch. Even Tess.

The bloater, the traps, the school, all that was cool, but it had no purpose to the story. It just worked because it was a videogame, not a TV show.

And it took a long time to establish their relationship so it could resonate with viewers and build the bridge between their relationship and Joel/Ellie's

You may not enjoy slow paced episodes such as this one, but it executed what it tried to do masterfuly

Yes, this episode sets the stage for everything that is to come.

To say it's a wasted episode is ridiculous, imho. The ending scene with the note says it all. And they told Bill's story to do that in a much more meaningful way than the game did. In the game, Bill was a throwaway character and a means to just have some cool set piece scenes to play. He didn't have nearly as much development as this episode.

 

[Roni]

Yeah, I think I‘ll skip this episode (or at least parts of it) if I decide to binge the show at some point. Despite having been exposed to gore, pornography and all other kinds of sick shit on the internet over the course of my life, there just something about two dudes making out that repulses me on an almost primal level. It‘s like hearing someone scratch their nails on a chalkboard; it makes me cringe in the truest sense of the word. I‘m not even religious or anything; I‘m just your typical decadent westerner, but I just won‘t ever be comfortable with this stuff for some reason (and no, I don‘t have repressed homo-erotic desires or whatever lol).

Dude, you just admitted that two guys kissing is worse than gore. The last part of your statement is out the window.

Listing an act of love as worse than gouging someone's eyes out is definitely a reason to get checked out.

 

[Yoboman]

I enjoyed the episode. I really liked it.
But it has no place in the bigger picture, this is TLOU, not The Life of Bill and Frank. We didnt have backstory for Tess, Ellie or Marlene, but hey when we have characters happens to be gay, then LETS. MAKE. IT. BIG!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ND Narrative deparment. Int.
Neil Druckmann have some ideas for the TLOU show on HBO and its telling them to his team with enthusiasm.

-As you know, straight people are not worth a cent, they are just worthless, boring, normal. Not worth our time, because what will give us the awards and the recognition we deserve, ladies and gentlemans, are the gays!
So you know what? At this part in the story, we have this couple, which in the game are just more secondary characters, but since it happens that they are gay, we will give them a full length episode, and we will make the gay drama of the century! Everyone will praise us (again!) and everyone will know how incredibly progressive and inclusive I.. I mean, we... are! It's the perfect oportunity to show the world that... we are the most gay caring people in the world!

-Oooh booi, I cant wait, praise is gonna rain all over my face. Dudes. Did I tell you how much I love gays? I can put them all ooooover peoples throats, and it will be fine, because they are gays! If anyone dares to resist, the other gay lovers will fight them and we dont have to even move a finger! This is sooo good. Ooh boi, lets go. Lets go full gay drama in this episode. Yeees. Fuck Ellie and Joel and the infected. Fuck TLOU. We are gonna get our Crown with this, I can see it!!

-But Neil, looks to me that you are more worried about sending a message than telling the story we are trying to tell. How does this 1 hour of secondary drama that ends with both characters dead, contribute to the main story which is the one TLOU fans are looking for?

-Oh my little child, who the fuck cares about that? ITS GAY, AND PEOPLE WILL LOVE IT. BECAUSE ITS GAY!! Thats just how this works. Trust me.

It's called the Last of Us not the Last of Joel and Ellie

The game story always showed different perspectives on how people connect in the post apocalypse

Joel and Tess relationship
Bill and Frank relationship falling apart
Sam and Henry surviving as brothers and Henry becoming a father figure
Tommy and Joel with Rommy becoming estranged and a leader of a community
Tommy and his wife Maria
David being the evil reflection of Tommy, leading people with brutal cannibal methods
Marlene's relationship with Ellie, Joel
Ellie and Riley

Except now it's a TV show so they can show additional layers to these characters that don't require the presence of the main characters like the game does

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

One extreme: gay
Other extreme: this is 10/10, masterpiece, wow! Brilliant

First of all if you have problems watching a same sex couple kissing each other, you might requestion yourself. Second of all, replace that same sex couple with opposite sex couple and it'll still be a very, very good episode but nowhere near brilliant, 10/10, masterpiece etc... level

Man, anything has to be either black or white these days...

In other news, this episode makes me wish that they'd write some kind of a spinoff series, kind of like the walking dead did, with how it's going on in another part of the world and new characters because this original episode was great and I'd like more of that.

 

[Represent.]

One extreme: gay
Other extreme: this is 10/10, masterpiece, wow! Brilliant

First of all if you have problems watching a same sex couple kissing each other, you might requestion yourself. Second of all, replace that same sex couple with opposite sex couple and it'll still be a very, very good episode but nowhere near brilliant, 10/10, masterpiece etc... level

Man, anything has to be either black or white these days...

In other news, this episode makes me wish that they'd write some kind of a spinoff series, kind of like the walking dead did, with how it's going on in another part of the world and new characters because this original episode was great and I'd like more of that.

Only a matter of time before they announce a spin-off. It’ll happen. Without Neil and Mazin but it’ll happen.

There’s endless stories to tell in this universe

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

Only a matter of time before they announce a spin-off. It’ll happen. Without Neil and Mazin but it’ll happen.

There’s endless stories to tell in this universe

Yeah but Mazin and Neil are doing an excellent job so far, not sure about anyone else doing it

 

[SlimySnake]

It's called the Last of Us not the Last of Joel and Ellie

The game story always showed different perspectives on how people connect in the post apocalypse

Joel and Tess relationship
Bill and Frank relationship falling apart
Sam and Henry surviving as brothers and Henry becoming a father figure
Tommy and Joel with Rommy becoming estranged and a leader of a community
Tommy and his wife Maria
David being the evil reflection of Tommy, leading people with brutal cannibal methods
Marlene's relationship with Ellie, Joel
Ellie and Riley

Except now it's a TV show so they can show additional layers to these characters that don't require the presence of the main characters like the game does

Yep. I want the next episode to be about Sam and Henry surviving with the episode starting with Sam's mom giving birth to him, dying during child birth leaving Henry all alone to raise him. We see as they travel through america in search of food. The episode then ends with Sam getting bit and Henry blowing his head off. Soon after Ellie and Joel walk in on their dead bodies and read a note that tells them to keep fighting for their loved ones, and if they fail, they can always commit suicide.

Episode 5 should be about Tommy and Maria meeting and falling in love. I want to see married with children sitcom where they nag each other to death and we get to see what life is really like in a quiet suburban Colorado town. The episode ends with Tommy leaving a note for Joel telling him to be glad his wife is dead because marriage if fucking torture.

David and his crew of cannibal pedos get two hour long episodes as Neil dissects what it means to be a cannibal in post apocalyptic america. With human meat being scarce thanks to zombies turning everyone, David learns to accept that he must let Ellie live so we can repopulate the world for other cannibals in the future.

Wonderful oscar winning writing.

 

[MagnesD3]

Yep. I want the next episode to be about Sam and Henry surviving with the episode starting with Sam's mom giving birth to him, dying during child birth leaving Henry all alone to raise him. We see as they travel through america in search of food. The episode then ends with Sam getting bit and Henry blowing his head off. Soon after Ellie and Joel walk in on their dead bodies and read a note that tells them to keep fighting for their loved ones, and if they fail, they can always commit suicide.

Episode 5 should be about Tommy and Maria meeting and falling in love. I want to see married with children sitcom where they nag each other to death and we get to see what life is really like in a quiet suburban Colorado town. The episode ends with Tommy leaving a note for Joel telling him to be glad his wife is dead because marriage if fucking torture.

David and his crew of cannibal pedos get two hour long episodes as Neil dissects what it means to be a cannibal in post apocalyptic america. With human meat being scarce thanks to zombies turning everyone, David learns to accept that he must let Ellie live so we can repopulate the world for other cannibals in the future.

Wonderful oscar winning writing.

They really want that 40 year old woman who love their soaps demographic huh..

 

[DForce]

I enjoyed the episode. I really liked it.
But it has no place in the bigger picture, this is TLOU, not The Life of Bill and Frank. We didnt have backstory for Tess, Ellie or Marlene, but hey when we have characters happens to be gay, then LETS. MAKE. IT. BIG!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ND Narrative deparment. Int.
Neil Druckmann have some ideas for the TLOU show on HBO and its telling them to his team with enthusiasm.

-As you know, straight people are not worth a cent, they are just worthless, boring, normal. Not worth our time, because what will give us the awards and the recognition we deserve, ladies and gentlemans, are the gays!
So you know what? At this part in the story, we have this couple, which in the game are just more secondary characters, but since it happens that they are gay, we will give them a full length episode, and we will make the gay drama of the century! Everyone will praise us (again!) and everyone will know how incredibly progressive and inclusive I.. I mean, we... are! It's the perfect oportunity to show the world that... we are the most gay caring people in the world!

-Oooh booi, I cant wait, praise is gonna rain all over my face. Dudes. Did I tell you how much I love gays? I can put them all ooooover peoples throats, and it will be fine, because they are gays! If anyone dares to resist, the other gay lovers will fight them and we dont have to even move a finger! This is sooo good. Ooh boi, lets go. Lets go full gay drama in this episode. Yeees. Fuck Ellie and Joel and the infected. Fuck TLOU. We are gonna get our Crown with this, I can see it!!

-But Neil, looks to me that you are more worried about sending a message than telling the story we are trying to tell. How does this 1 hour of secondary drama that ends with both characters dead, contribute to the main story which is the one TLOU fans are looking for?

-Oh my little child, who the fuck cares about that? ITS GAY, AND PEOPLE WILL LOVE IT. BECAUSE ITS GAY!! Thats just how this works. Trust me.

As someone who enjoys writing and creating stories, you don't seem to understand that writers are passionate about all the characters that they make.

Most of the characters have a purpose, and writers want an opportunity to tell each and every single one of their stories.

The thing about TV shows, movies, and video games is that writers often have to make compromises. The things you're seeing on screen are probably ideas Neil Duckmann created more than 10 years ago and now he finally has a chance to tell. As for this episode in particular, it was Craig who wrote the script and probably got some input from Neil Duckmann.

It's not unusual for writers to dedicate episodes to other characters. One example I can use is from Batman: The Animated Series. There's a two part episode that focuses on the story of Harvey Dent/Two-Face. The story is about batman, but they also want you to care about characters outside of the main protagonist.

People talk about bad writing, but if your story only focuses on the main protagonist(s), then you should really consider dedicating time to other characters.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yep. I want the next episode to be about Sam and Henry surviving with the episode starting with Sam's mom giving birth to him, dying during child birth leaving Henry all alone to raise him. We see as they travel through america in search of food. The episode then ends with Sam getting bit and Henry blowing his head off. Soon after Ellie and Joel walk in on their dead bodies and read a note that tells them to keep fighting for their loved ones, and if they fail, they can always commit suicide.

Episode 5 should be about Tommy and Maria meeting and falling in love. I want to see married with children sitcom where they nag each other to death and we get to see what life is really like in a quiet suburban Colorado town. The episode ends with Tommy leaving a note for Joel telling him to be glad his wife is dead because marriage if fucking torture.

David and his crew of cannibal pedos get two hour long episodes as Neil dissects what it means to be a cannibal in post apocalyptic america. With human meat being scarce thanks to zombies turning everyone, David learns to accept that he must let Ellie live so we can repopulate the world for other cannibals in the future.

Wonderful oscar winning writing.

Neil already stated that Episode 3 was the biggest departure from the game. They obviously aren't going to overplay these external characters to the detriment of Joel/Ellie. Episode 3 was simply the right situation to take a rather inconsequential character (Bill) and flesh him out into actually having genuine meaning for the rest of the series.

Don't get me wrong, Bill's section in the game is awesome to play, but I think in the context of a TV series, it's much more impactful what they did here.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I was not expecting that Ron Swanson

 

[Represent.]

They need to bring this voice actor back to the show somehow. Fucking hell

The tears as shes eating that corpse makes it even creepier now knowing that in this stage they are fully aware of whats going on - they just cant control it

 

[FunkMiller]

The Critical Drinker is a successful novelist that's worked with the likes of James Patterson.

You may not like him, but I doubt very much he is an idiot incapable of understanding storytelling.

He’s also someone who knows exactly who his audience is, and knows to pander at them as much as possible to maintain his income stream.

The guy occasionally has some decent insights, but his critical skills are marred heavily by the constant need to appeal to a certain demographic.

Oh, and James Patterson probably didn't work with him. Jordan would have written that short story all by himself. Patterson literally licences his name out. It’s common knowledge in publishing.

 

[DForce]

The Critical Drinker is a successful novelist that's worked with the likes of James Patterson.

You may not like him, but I doubt very much he is an idiot incapable of understanding storytelling.

He is? Then he should learn what the word retcon means.

Spoiler

He believes they retconned Joel by making him weak in part two. He says he doesn't try to stand up to Ellie and make his case.

Uhh. Does he remember the scene with Joel and Ellie at the diner? Joel was frustrated with Ellie and held on to his lie. He only showed weakness when he was forced to tell Ellie the truth, and that would break any man who loves someone. This is the same man who tried to show compassion for Henry before he killed himself.

He also talks about how Ellie's personality is different in comparison to the game. Did he completely forget the entire chapter with Bill in the game? It's the same controlling personality. Even Joel had a difficult time telling her to be quiet when he was with Bill.

You just have to shake your head because Critical Drinker should have easily picked up on this stuff.

 

[MasterCornholio]

And with that, let’s move on

I took that as secretly wanting to sleep with your sister for some reason.

This has been a weird thread.

 

[dorkimoe]

Sorry if been posted but lol