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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
BananasWithGuns
Member
But Paladins need all the help they can get, poor Ulther
It's even worse that for a while now we've listened to Ben Brode talk about how charge is something they have to balance and that they have to be very careful with it and then they show they truly don't give a shit by making Anyfin Can Happen.
Blizzard is a joke, pure and simple. The fact that Anyfin Can Happen is so broken and was then given to the best class in the game just proves that.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
HS seriously needs a beta test server because I dunno if they even test some of the cards they release
Nah it's not as bad, in Patron you had to think - about which combo pieces to give up and which to hold back against the plays you're expecting from your opponent, about how to maximize armor gain and minimize damage, about how much tempo is necessary to win the game and how important draw is depending on the matchup and your hand. That means you sometimes didn't utilize all of your mana or even passed a turn! Of course that is non-interactive, a problem fixed with Paladin. Also don't forget that combos confuse new players, which Blizzard has recognized and in turn moved the complicated OTK of Patron to a single, easy to understand card.
BumperLips
Member
Quick question: Does Anyfin can happen only revive murlocs a single time? Or can you get like, Murk-eye twice even though he died once.
If Blizzard actually gave a fuck about charge like they have said then Force of Nature would've been nerfed (again) a while ago.
I honestly don't know how they didn't see that Anyfin could lead to an OTK situation. They probably did know about it but they figured that you might not have those exact Murlocs die in time or they thought that people would play a full Murloc deck and the chance of getting the charge Murloc minions in lower. I feel that they didn't anticipate that Midrange Paladin would just plop a few charge Murlocs in and use it as an alternate win condition similar to how Grim Patron works (where some matches you could win without even playing Grim Patron).
I honestly don't know how they didn't see that Anyfin could lead to an OTK situation. They probably did know about it but they figured that you might not have those exact Murlocs die in time or they thought that people would play a full Murloc deck and the chance of getting the charge Murloc minions in lower. I feel that they didn't anticipate that Midrange Paladin would just plop a few charge Murlocs in and use it as an alternate win condition similar to how Grim Patron works (where some matches you could win without even playing Grim Patron).
You can get two if by some reason the opponent steals it, and then kills it something weird like that.
If he died once he would only come back once. The double anyfin is the issue there though since it means a second murk eye died along with all the other charge/warleader ones. You can use the first one to clear and the second to kill.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Rank 2 now. Probably gonna hit legend this season.
They need better playtesters.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Considering how they listen to the playerbase...
don't worry, i'm about to give up on secret paladin and start playing aggro shaman. Blizzard solves every problem eventually. Thought i almost got a foothold against shaman at 8 health and they crackle to death my sludge i just put up
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Welp, just played Ostkaka:
Kinda got rekt.
(He was playing value mage with the new legendary.)
Kinda got rekt.
(He was playing value mage with the new legendary.)
Even I managed to call the power of Anyfin, although I probably undersold it a bit.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184546181&postcount=1798
(The use of "fun" was semi-sarcastic hedging of bets).
On the subject of anger I think the issue is that it's comparatively rare to come away from a ladder loss thinking that you were outplayed, most of the time it feels like you never stood a chance against a deck too strong for it's rank or you were screwed over by bad beats.
That may not be the case, you can't really tell and naturally nobody is going to believe they just suck but that's what it usually feels like.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184546181&postcount=1798
(The use of "fun" was semi-sarcastic hedging of bets).
On the subject of anger I think the issue is that it's comparatively rare to come away from a ladder loss thinking that you were outplayed, most of the time it feels like you never stood a chance against a deck too strong for it's rank or you were screwed over by bad beats.
That may not be the case, you can't really tell and naturally nobody is going to believe they just suck but that's what it usually feels like.
I always hate fighting mage as druid.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think people are overselling anyfin can happen. I think it is only getting any attention because paladin's don't really have any other burst down cards with any significant damage that doesn't just plain suck. But if midrange paladin is simply better in terms of match win rates, than it doesn't really matter if people feel like anyfin is broken because it violates blizzard's OTK "rules" (not really broadly applied anyway). I personally haven't seen it enough to decide, but I think people are overreacting.
As for your point about being outplayed, I think if you look at a match objectively you're most likely to see your small mistakes. I feel like people probably miss mistakes quite often, since just because a particular line of play works or fails doesn't mean you made the best move in a particular situation.
WesternHeretic
Member
Wow just saw game #2 between Amaz vs Lifecoach.
LOLOLOLOLOL
RNG!
LOLOLOLOLOL
RNG!
BananasWithGuns
Member
I don't see how anyone could feel "outplayed" when there are upwards of 50 cards in this game that deserve nerfs. When you have that many broken cards in circulation it's a matter of who gets the best draw and nothing more.
You don't need it to OTK when your curve all but guarantees board control. With a burst option Paladin now has literally everything.
Tempo decks, which make up most of the ladder, rarely outplay you. If you still want to classify midrange as a separate archetype since it's become entirely tempo-based as well, yeah, they may hold back a board clear or a taunt here or there but there's not much significant decision-making involved either. Regarding looking at matches obejctively, well that would be pretty fucking easy with a replay function this supposedly competitive game still doesn't have after over two years. At least they're still thinking hard about that API.
Tempo decks, which make up most of the ladder, rarely outplay you. If you still want to classify midrange as a separate archetype since it's become entirely tempo-based as well, yeah, they may hold back a board clear or a taunt here or there but there's not much significant decision-making involved either. Regarding looking at matches obejctively, well that would be pretty fucking easy with a replay function this supposedly competitive game still doesn't have after over two years. At least they're still thinking hard about that API.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Anyfin can Happen is like if FoN + Savage Roar gave you a full board of stronger minions that didn't die at the end of your turn.
Perfectly balanced
Perfectly balanced
Haunted
Member
Could you elaborate? I don't 100% understand how that would work. Though I don't have the cards from the final wing yet, so maybe it'd be clearer when I've seen the chain in action.
edit: it's just two additional cards, the map and the monkey, right?
You can still play a skillful game among some broken cards. If both players are playing with broken cards then it's usually fine.
Issue is when huge swing RNG cards come into play. When the game starts off with Knife Juggler and Muster for Battle or Arcane Missiles + Flamewaker which results in a cleared board or not even one juggle hitting the right target... something went wrong. The RNG swings keep happening with the climax being the Boom Bots hit what target for how much damage.
This doesn't even factor in even wider RNG swings like stuff coming off of Unstable Portal or discovering specific answers.
I guess a streamer was trying some miracle rogue deck? Faced it like 10 times in the last hour or two. Oh man good old Oil rogue completely recks it head to head. Tomb pillager dies so easily to everything and most of the time I could just blade fury their concealed auctioneer. Even if the concealed auctioneer lived they were too far behind to catch up.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
God Divine Favor is so dumb.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Not sure I agree with the first about being able to play a skillful game.
A ridiculous amount of games are decided at the mulligan phase. Way more than should be. Of course a large part of that is the fact that minions on the lower half of the mana curve aren't balanced correctly.
Point being, Hearthstone is in bad shape balance wise and until Blizzard just finally breaks and does a complete sweeping rebalance of the game it's never going to get better. Of course, that's just my opinion but I wouldn't be surprised to see the sentiment grow over time.
You cleared all of them using Priest? My MAN!
Did you do the whole adventure? Imma try it too!
I mean if both players are playing Renolock... the match up is still skill based. There are very few RNG based cards in the deck and you are rarely going to lose to an opening bad hand.
And Renolock has a bunch of over powered cards for sure.
Of course you are correct in that the balance between low end and high end cards isn't appropriate right now. Minions on the low end get power creeped where as spells/high end cards don't to keep up so the game has naturally become a game of aggression and tempo.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Just beat Fibonnaci:
Playing all the Hearthstone celebs today.
Playing all the Hearthstone celebs today.
veloxStrix
Banned
You know what would make people want to play decks that require thought? A 30 second long turn and long ass animations. Yup.
I'm acutely aware of why I took a break from this shit. I lost a game Turn 3 today at the SCG Invitational and had more fun doing that.
I'm acutely aware of why I took a break from this shit. I lost a game Turn 3 today at the SCG Invitational and had more fun doing that.
You say that but Control Warrior is such a drag to play against with Control Priest. Entomb and Curator help a little, but games usually go to fatigue (where I lose). CW finished me off with Rafaam artifact yesterday. Wasn't even mad since I was still looking for my Gold Monkey....
Professor Lich
Member
Don't worry guys, I'm sure with the next card expansion, Blizzard will add the first few neutral spells! They'll help us counteract all these aggro and deathrattle decks.
Wool Bandage - 2 Mana
Heal your hero for 1 health for every two minions summoned or played against you. 3 health for any with Charge.
Heavy Mageweave Bandage - 4 Mana
Heal your hero for 3 health for every four minions summoned or played against you. 5 health for any with Charge.
Wool Bandage - 2 Mana
Heal your hero for 1 health for every two minions summoned or played against you. 3 health for any with Charge.
Heavy Mageweave Bandage - 4 Mana
Heal your hero for 3 health for every four minions summoned or played against you. 5 health for any with Charge.
toddhunter
Member
I keep saying, the only fix is to introduce lobbies and challenges for casual mode. Then you'll never have to play against stupid aggro decks ever again, people will stop playing ranked and Blizzard will hence have to do something to balance things out.
win, win win.
win, win win.
This will do absolutely nothing.
There's a god level heal in the game in the form of Reno Jackson and it's really only used in one deck.
Heals without putting up a body (or doing something else) aren't really that worthwhile.
I like the lobby idea... people can be like "no Dr Balanced". In fact allow people to make their own rules like no Legendaries allowed in decks.
Nah.. too complicated for the playerbase. Haven't even released more deck slots yet.
Professor Lich
Member
I wasn't being too serious, though I do like the idea of neutral spells.
However I don't see adding extra modes would ever stop ladder being what it is. People will always follow the path of least resistance, especially when rewards are involved.
toddhunter
Member
It is sad how long the "more deck slots" joke has been around. Especially around adventure time, it is incredibly annoying not to be able to keep more decks.
Not to mention Brann + Healbot. That seems to be even stronger to me...but of course you can always run both.
The problem is it works, but not often enough so for every time you'll screw over an aggro deck, they'll win three other games.
If you could get dust/gold at an accelerated rate in Casual mode then people would play it (to get more resources to complete their decks so they can then move on to ranked).
They can put some restrictions/extra rules in casual mode so that people don't just abuse the best decks.
They can put some restrictions/extra rules in casual mode so that people don't just abuse the best decks.
I don't know that a lobby system would suit the direction Blizzard wants to take. It pulls people out of the ranked system and leaves a smaller casual pool too. The whole goal for a game as simple as Hearthstone should be, "I want to play a game". You click the button. You go into a game. I also don't really see how that would introduce a playspace where aggro decks would be frowned on, and you wind up with stuff like win trading.
The ranked system (which now has rewards tied to it), as well as the daily quest system both push players to pump out as many games as they can as quickly as possible. The soft MMR resets on a monthly basis sure don't help either, because your rank just feels really ephemeral. No reason to play long games and push for a high rank with a slow deck when your progress will just get wiped in less than a month. If that many people are bothered by the balance of particular cards it would be simpler and more to the point for everyone if those cards were just nerfed.
I've said this before, but minion power creep has always just been way ahead of spells for the most part. Each expansion and adventure sees a flood of new minions, but rarely any spells to level the playing field and provide control options that might keep up with the value gained from playing new and improved minions.
The ranked system (which now has rewards tied to it), as well as the daily quest system both push players to pump out as many games as they can as quickly as possible. The soft MMR resets on a monthly basis sure don't help either, because your rank just feels really ephemeral. No reason to play long games and push for a high rank with a slow deck when your progress will just get wiped in less than a month. If that many people are bothered by the balance of particular cards it would be simpler and more to the point for everyone if those cards were just nerfed.
I've said this before, but minion power creep has always just been way ahead of spells for the most part. Each expansion and adventure sees a flood of new minions, but rarely any spells to level the playing field and provide control options that might keep up with the value gained from playing new and improved minions.
Entomb is a godlike card if the game was slower. It's still good enough to the point where Priests are running it very commonly these days... it's a great answer to Tirions, Sylvanas, Highmanes. Entomb is probably the only real power creep removal we have had in a while (IMO strictly better than Siphon Soul and Assassinate) and is exactly the type of card we need more. The reason why I think Entomb is a better removal than those card is because it doesn't kill the target but remove it which is superior because of deathrattle stuff.
Imagine if we had a card that removed TWO cards from the opponent's side. Now we are talking.
Or hell imagine a weapon that removed a minion instead of killing it. Yeah boy!
Imagine if we had a card that removed TWO cards from the opponent's side. Now we are talking.
Or hell imagine a weapon that removed a minion instead of killing it. Yeah boy!
ok golden warrior get, I done playing warrior now, good old patron times were the most fun I had in this game but it's time for that to end. New patron really isn't doing it for me. I got my 500 wins almost entirely with patron warrior, 300 or so with old the rest with new. I played quite a bit of cw and dragon warrior too after old patron nerf too. rip in pieces garrosh. I have some ideas for a bolster warrior actually, I might try that in a fully cancer meta, should be fun for trolling. I might play that some time.
next class... DRUID. I'm a druid noob and I hate the class actually, my druid is like level 17 or something, yeah... I have like twenty something ranked wins with it.... tried aggro druid for a bit, I don't like how yolo it is and tmy top decking skillz are just soo awful. Midrange druid it is then. I'm already doing very well with it I think. I don't have ancient of war, I'm not sure how good my deck is with belchers instead but just won a couple of mirror games even but still lost to cancer shaman topdeck, it was so close.
Life feels a lot easier on this side compared with warrior, even secret paladin isn't that hard. patron warrior isn't really a secret paladin counter, one turn 5 secret and oh god is it repentance or not? I can't play patron now, if you play and it's repentance, it's game over. if you don't then comes MC, it's game over most of the time if you don't have a good board (patrons). It's a really really hard match with most difficult turns, even cw isn't that hard, it feels so yolo. I've been watching even top players like zalae just lose to secret paladin like that over and over again, the right play is to just go for it of course but it feels so bad for a supposedly favorable match up some claim, it is not that. Oil rogue in comparison, is considerably stronger against secret paladin because rogue has excellent board clears. The problem with a mid range warrior deck is that they have no come back mechanic, they have no board clear whatsover. You can't play brawl in a midrange deck, it destroys your own board too. All of warrior board clears are trash for this type of deck, and whirlwinds are not good enough anymore . Warsong/patron combo was just necessary and filled this void for warrior, it didn't need a nerf, frothing combo needed a nerf. I just hope they print a decent aoe for warrior, like really why not.
if you want fast games against warrior, play that cancer shaman deck, it kills warrior before they can even play justicar.
next class... DRUID. I'm a druid noob and I hate the class actually, my druid is like level 17 or something, yeah... I have like twenty something ranked wins with it.... tried aggro druid for a bit, I don't like how yolo it is and tmy top decking skillz are just soo awful. Midrange druid it is then. I'm already doing very well with it I think. I don't have ancient of war, I'm not sure how good my deck is with belchers instead but just won a couple of mirror games even but still lost to cancer shaman topdeck, it was so close.
Life feels a lot easier on this side compared with warrior, even secret paladin isn't that hard. patron warrior isn't really a secret paladin counter, one turn 5 secret and oh god is it repentance or not? I can't play patron now, if you play and it's repentance, it's game over. if you don't then comes MC, it's game over most of the time if you don't have a good board (patrons). It's a really really hard match with most difficult turns, even cw isn't that hard, it feels so yolo. I've been watching even top players like zalae just lose to secret paladin like that over and over again, the right play is to just go for it of course but it feels so bad for a supposedly favorable match up some claim, it is not that. Oil rogue in comparison, is considerably stronger against secret paladin because rogue has excellent board clears. The problem with a mid range warrior deck is that they have no come back mechanic, they have no board clear whatsover. You can't play brawl in a midrange deck, it destroys your own board too. All of warrior board clears are trash for this type of deck, and whirlwinds are not good enough anymore . Warsong/patron combo was just necessary and filled this void for warrior, it didn't need a nerf, frothing combo needed a nerf. I just hope they print a decent aoe for warrior, like really why not.
if you want fast games against warrior, play that cancer shaman deck, it kills warrior before they can even play justicar.
That's why they made Entomb boy.
I save one entomb, just in case.... Surprise
U mean for both their belchers, malganis, giants, renos, taurissans... guess Ill have to roll double SW
eath.If you are running into Renolocks all day then it's time to play Druids/Paladins. Priest can't do much against Locks.U mean for both their belchers, malganis, giants, renos, taurissans... guess Ill have to roll double SW
Or Aggro Shaman/Hunter/Aggro Druid and kill them before turn Reno.
U mean for both their belchers, malganis, giants, renos, taurissans... guess Ill have to roll double SW
Try luring them out with deathlords, make the most out of lightbomb
Thoughtsteal helps too
Not much else we can do