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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt

C

CoolOff

Member
Good Aggro Warrior in arena.

cvnfcjv9rqzu.png


4-0 so far, dominating my opponents.

Execute
Upgrade
Argent Squire
Southsea Deckhand
Fiery Win Axe
Battle Rage
Heroic Strike
2x Slam
Bluegill Warrior
Cruel Taskmaster
Loot Hoarder
Sunfury Protector
Unstable Ghoul
Dragonhawk Rider
Harvest Golem
Ogre Brute
Shattered Sun Cleric
2x Death's Bite
Ancient Brewmaster
Ancient Shade (Legit great card in Warrior, who cares about 7 damage sometime down the line? I'll gladly give my Tallstrider 2 attack for that.)
2x Spellbreaker (MVP)
Bomb Lobber
Silver Hand Knight
Spectral Knight
Boulderfist Ogre
Baron Geddon < 3
Obsidian Destroyer (Should be called OBSCENEdian Destroyer. This card is only balanced because it's in a shit class like Warrior.)
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Member
Im loving my control warrior right now..

Im sure its not the best, but Ill post a list and hope you guys have some tips for me

got rank 16 ( thats not high I know but I built this deck myself :) )
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I don't think anything will beat Rafaam summoning Majordomo and then using BGH on it on the same turn.

Or his using Jaraxxus and then using Sacrificial Pact on himself.
 
M

Mirimar

Member
Jesus, whoever said miracle rogue is back is out of their minds. What matchup is even good for it? Have not won 1 match out of several, lol
 
K

Kenaras

Member
Mirimar said:
Jesus, whoever said miracle rogue is back is out of their minds. What matchup is even good for it? Have not won 1 match out of several, lol
Click to expand...

It's bad against aggro decks, so if you're seeing a lot of those don't play it. It's good against most midrange and control decks. I watched Dog's stream a bit when he was on a huge winstreak with it, at high legend. Even he's not convinced it's stronger than Oil Rogue overall, though.
 
M

Mirimar

Member
Dahbomb said:
Oil Rogue still does work. You can probably go for a more Tempo Oil Rogue play style to counter the aggression better. Raptor Rogue isn't bad either.
Click to expand...

Raptor rogue at least has a chance against agro. Finally got done with the daily with it, lol...all against zoolock decks.

call_kotaku said:
brann mill is hilarious if you're looking for laughs. You'll have <50% winrate but it's worth it if you don't care about climbing
Click to expand...

I'll try mill one of these days, haha. Always fun watching someone play it, but playing it myself, I don't fully understand the mechanics.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Played some Priest at wood rank, went 4-0. Entomb is fucking mental. I only played one game with Dog's Elise list (dumpstered a Control Warrior), and while I enjoyed it more than Zetalot's standard-ish control list I feel like it's much more volatile vs aggro. Anyone got experience with it or watched Dog play it?
 
C

CraigerGamer

Member
Just got to Lvl 11 for this season. Used a mix of mid-range pally to Levl 15 and Tempo Mage through the rest. I have noticed differences between each level though some are more pronounced than others.

Lvl 25 - Lvl 20: When I first started playing I never understood why Blizzard doesn't make everyone start over each season. But then I realized that anything above Lvl 20 is really for beginners. It would make the game very difficult for noobs if they were going up against potential legendaries. So it makes sense to have anyone who was remotely successful in the previous season to start below 20.

Lvl19 - Lvl 16: You see a lot of very creative decks which can make for some interesting games. Most of the opponents there aren't too difficult to dispatch but I always seem to find the most atypical play to be around LvL 17. I really enjoy this part of the ladder to be honest. Anything below Lvl 16 and you start to get into the net decks with very little imagination.

Lvl15 - lvl13: I sort of treat this tier as a sprint. I find these to be mostly the top decks posted on Tempostorm and other Meta sites, yet its folks who don't really understand card value, what a good trade is, or are still learning the deck du jour. So you go against the most difficult decks but the play is pretty erratic. You just want to get through these levels as quick as possible.

Lvl12 - Lvl 11: It seems to be all about match-ups and mulligans at this point. Granted Lvl 11 with 4 stars filled is the highest I have ever gotten (had a Priest down to 1 health but lost the board thanks to a Cabal) but I am really struggling to get beyond this tier. I wonder if Lvl 10 will just be more of the same? What separates players at Lvl 9 - legendary? Can these also be stratified like I feel you can up to Lvl 11? Can you really tell the difference between someone at lvl 5 and someone at lvl 2?

Perhaps this is a stupid post but i am really curious what i should expect if I ever break that Lvl 11 glass ceiling.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Man do I love Confessor Paletress. There's nothing quite like using your hero power and then hearing, "Safety restrictions offline. Harvesting servos engaged."

Even sweeter that I hit rank 5 with that win too.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
CraigerGamer said:
Just got to Lvl 11 for this season. Used a mix of mid-range pally to Levl 15 and Tempo Mage through the rest. I have noticed differences between each level though some are more pronounced than others.

Lvl 25 - Lvl 20: When I first started playing I never understood why Blizzard doesn't make everyone start over each season. But then I realized that anything above Lvl 20 is really for beginners. It would make the game very difficult for noobs if they were going up against potential legendaries. So it makes sense to have anyone who was remotely successful in the previous season to start below 20.

Lvl19 - Lvl 16: You see a lot of very creative decks which can make for some interesting games. Most of the opponents there aren't too difficult to dispatch but I always seem to find the most atypical play to be around LvL 17. I really enjoy this part of the ladder to be honest. Anything below Lvl 16 and you start to get into the net decks with very little imagination.

Lvl15 - lvl13: I sort of treat this tier as a sprint. I find these to be mostly the top decks posted on Tempostorm and other Meta sites, yet its folks who don't really understand card value, what a good trade is, or are still learning the deck du jour. So you go against the most difficult decks but the play is pretty erratic. You just want to get through these levels as quick as possible.

Lvl12 - Lvl 11: It seems to be all about match-ups and mulligans at this point. Granted Lvl 11 with 4 stars filled is the highest I have ever gotten (had a Priest down to 1 health but lost the board thanks to a Cabal) but I am really struggling to get beyond this tier. I wonder if Lvl 10 will just be more of the same? What separates players at Lvl 9 - legendary? Can these also be stratified like I feel you can up to Lvl 11? Can you really tell the difference between someone at lvl 5 and someone at lvl 2?

Perhaps this is a stupid post but i am really curious what i should expect if I ever break that Lvl 11 glass ceiling.
Click to expand...

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-Legend all the same. Mostly everyone running meta decks and playing the same match ups. The only difference is that the legends consistently make better decision then someone at 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10.

There will always be unwinnable games due to mulligans/topdecks/rng whatever. But the best players are the one who wins the games that are 50/50 when both players get bad/good draws or when RNG isn't heavily one sided.


Here's a post by Hoej about RNG it just today.

It is often assumed that Heartstone is a very RNG heavy game with a limited skill cap. “CasinoStone” or “Professional Coin Flippers” are phrases that often are used in conjunction with Hearthstone. Phrases such as ‘“I was unlucky” or “I lost to a top deck” are being used even more frequently. Most people would probably agree that there are a lot of random aspects in Hearthstone, since it’s a turn-based game with many RNG effects, but the focus in this article will actually be the opposite. I will argue that Hearthstone is way more consistent than it’s being granted for and the better player will win way more games against the less experienced in the long run.

To start this discussion I would like to expand our context to other eSports, which is highly recognized as skill based (these stats are without draws): Evil Genius’ DotA 2 team who won the international this summer has a win rate of 63% (365W/175L). Team Solomid CS:GO’s team has a win rate of 70% (158W/63L). Team Fnatic’s LoL team has a win rate of 68% (179W/86L). These teams are some of the best in their eSport – so a win rate around 67% is seen as high skilled and consistent in their games. Thijs “ThijsNL” Molendijk who plays Hearthstone for G2 has a win rate of 64% (234W/133L) in competitive games – which is very impressive compared to the sample size. So what does all these stats from the different eSports tell us about Thijs when we try to compare them? Is Thijs simply outstanding when it comes to his top decks? Did Thijs face a lot of weak opponents? Or could it actually be that all the hours of training has made Thijs a better Hearthstone player compared to the average player?

To figure this out we need to determine what it means to be “a good Hearthstone player”. In my opinion it is almost impossible to find the correct play every turn in Hearthstone, because you are not able to know your opponents cards in hand – or what his next top deck might be. Nevertheless, you are able to make the optimal play from the information you have and keep getting from your opponent and the game – like being aware of how long time a specific card has been in your opponents hand, counting what cards have been played, think not only one turn ahead but always look at the whole game and the upcoming turns, how does the board potentially interact with his cards or your cards in hand, how far or ahead are you - do you have to make a risky play or can you play it safe? Which RNG effects are coming up and how do you exploit them to your advantage etc. For me “a good Hearthstone player” is a player who takes all these perspectives into consideration and always seeks to find the right play, which ensures a better overall win rate.

Let me try to put this into perspective:

In this example we look at Secretdin vs. Secretdin (http://imgur.com/1ax5BLe). The player on the top (Player 1) is at this stage ahead – and he is now looking for the optimal play to ensure a better overall win rate. He knows that his opponent (Player 2) plays one Ironbeak Owl and one Consecreation in his decks. Moreover, Player 1 has been keeping track of Players 2’s cards so he also knows that Player 2 still has one card left in hand from his mulligan. The experienced player will know that Player 2 might keep a Consecration in his opening hand; however, he would probably not keep an Ironbeak Owl in a mirror matchup. Nonetheless, Player 2 might have drawn into the Ironbeak Owl from the three other cards. Therefore, Player 1 needs to consider the following:

To play Knife Juggler and Shielded Minibot. Clear the rest of the Silverhand Recruits who didn’t die to the Juggler knifes. This play will increase your win rate IF your opponent doesn’t have a Consecreation – this play is classified as “High risk high reward play”.
To play Knife Juggler or Shielded Minibot and Hero power. Clear the rest of the Silverhand Recruits who didn’t die to the Juggler knifes. This play is safer against a Consecreation.
To play only Hero Power. Clear the rest of the Silverhand Recruits who didn’t die to the Juggler knifes. This play is very conservative and only plays around Consecreation.
To play Blessing of Kings on Knife Juggler. Go face with your Knife Juggler and trade with Silverhand Recruits and weapon.

These four plays will influence Player 1’s win rate differently depending on what Player 2 plays next turn. Player 1 therefore needs to consider how far he is ahead at this stage of the game – and how safe or risky does he need to play to win this game? In this regard, the rule of thumb is you should always play safe if you think you are ahead whereas you need to play more risky if you believe you are behind. Player 1 decides to go with play number four, “To play Blessing of Kings on Knife Juggler. Go face with your Knife Juggler and trade with Silverhand Recruits and weapon”. Player 2 top decks an Ironbeak Owl – which means he is able to play Knife Juggler and afterwards silence Player 1’s Knife Juggler. One of the knifes hits Player 1’s Knife Juggler which means that Player 2 is able to clear it with his weapon. Player 2 was able to create a huge swing with his top deck and put himself ahead in the game. So does this mean Player 1 made a miss play? In my opinion: No! He made the decision to increase his win rate on the facts he was given. You can compare and translate it into for example poker. Lets say Player 2 has “77” in his hand and he decides to go All in preflop. Player 1 looks into his cards where he finds “KK” and without hesitation he decides to call the all in. At this stage of the game Player 1 has 80% chance of winning the pot, nevertheless, a 7 hits the turn (Never lucky, Babyrage) which means that Player 2 ends up winning the pot even though he only had a 20% chance of winning preflop. However, the call from Player 1 was still the correct play percentage wise, which means that if he keeps making similar decisions – where he is ahead percentage wise – he will end up winning more hands/games in the long term. The same goes for Hearthstone as we saw in the example with the Secretdin vs. Secretdin.

All the different options Player 1 had could potentially influence the following turns a lot differently – and this was just a “simple” turn four. My point is the more experienced Hearthstone player will more frequently make the “optimal play” each turn compared to a less experienced player – so in the long term the experienced and better player will be able to grind him down. Another aspect I would like to highlight in this regard is if a player decides to play aggressive, defensive or risky - some people are recommending he should stick to same game style for the rest of the current game. I highly disagree with this because as a skilled player you constantly need to adjust your play style to the given stage and situation in the game.

So far we can conclude that there are many factors and decisions, which can be made each turn – and each of these will influence your upcoming turns and win rate differently – like a tree diagram (http://imgur.com/hirio11). So imagine if you have to plan for a whole tournament then we can expand the three diagram to deck building, which classes shall I bring, which deck do I have to ban of my opponent, which deck is the best to start with etc.. These are factors which is not highlighted enough in my opinion as we often look at a single game isolated, however, the reason of top decking the right card or having the perfect hand is often for example a result of good deck building. In regard to deck building and play style Adrian “Lifecoach” is known for playing decks like Midrange Paladin, Midrange Hunter, Midrange Druid or other Midrange/Controle decks. His reason for playing these kind of decks is to ensure that the game has more turns – and this way Lifecoach can enhance his chances of winning by playing more optimal turns than his opponent. Furthermore, one of Lifecoach’s signatures is to rope – even on simple turns – however, this is basically because time is a limited resource. So he always plan several turns ahead and he tries to predict what his opponent might play in the upcoming turns.

On the other hand, less experienced players have a tendency to play more tech heavy cards like Black Knight, Mind Controle Tech, Harrison etc. Tech cards have the ability to create tempo swings in your game, so of course you need some of them in your deck, however, it is important to have in mind that these cards often are inconsistent. To put this into perspective the experienced player focuses on creating solid decks and make plays that increases his win rate a little each turn in every game. On the other hand the less experienced often tend to make less optimal plays each turn and needs a triumph card to get back in the game. However, the tech card is not very flexible so in other games where he is not able to gain the full potential of it his win rate will decrease instead and he even risks losing to players who are less experienced than himself more often.

To sum it all up – I know that Hearthstone is influenced by RNG and that it is not all skill based. Nevertheless, I still believe that there is more to it due to things like deck building, mind games, keeping your head straight in game and make optimal plays every turn. In this regard, this article is not meant as cry for help to stop Twitch chat jokes about RNG – because Twitch chat is actually playing a large part when it comes to the success of an Esport like Heartstone. The chat is making the whole experience so much fun! My reason for this article is instead to create a little and first eye-opener towards competitive ladder players, tournament players and also casters of Hearthstone. Hearthstone players often highlight RNG as the reason for their lost games – and in my opinion this is the easy way of handling a lost match. It takes courage to highlight your own mistakes and questionable plays – especially if you are on a live stage talking about the game. For me personally I have made my share of miss plays in live tournaments and every time I am not afraid of saying so afterwards – because I do not learn anything from the RNG, but I learn a lot from my mistakes (http://imgur.com/rel7Ib5). I only have three to four decks, which I feel totally comfortable playing, and where I know my plays in 95-99% will be the optimal play. This is due to my tournament focus where you can often only bring three decks. Unfortunately, this is also a disadvantage for me because my opponents often know what I will bring to a tournament – which my teammate OstKaka showed in the finale qualifier for Blizzcon this year.

My point for this article is actually pretty simple: I think we – the players and the casters – need to act like ambassadors of the game by not keep talking about the RNG but instead focusing more on the tough calls or how a specific play influenced the game. Personally, I don’t get frustrated if I lose a game where I played well – I get frustrated when I win/lose a game which I didn’t deserve due to miss plays. There will always be a variance in Hearthstone, however, instead of focusing on things we cannot controle – let us focus on all the other awesome aspects of the game.

Thanks a lot to those of you who took the time to read the article – and Happy Feast of Winterfell to all of you.

Hoej / Follw me on twitter @NaviHoej
Click to expand...
 
O

Owzers

Member
I'm having a really hard time on the ladder, last month i just face huntered my way through freeze mages, secret paladins, and slow starting patrons. This month that is not working because there are more varied decks i'm facing, and switching to secret paladin with nerubian eggs isn't proving that successful. I have enough dust to craft through a renolock or control priest deck to play with, or i could spend it all on 5 epics to build a Druid since i have none of the needed ones. Decisions...
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Rank 5+ there's really no difference aside from fewer mistakes and better luck. Rank 2+ is definitely no different from legend, just a matter of time investment. You start playing people at Legend at around Rank 3 if your hidden MMR is high enough.
 
Complistic

Complistic

Member
sillymonkey321 said:
I'm having a really hard time on the ladder, last month i just face huntered my way through freeze mages, secret paladins, and slow starting patrons. This month that is not working because there are more varied decks i'm facing, and switching to secret paladin with nerubian eggs isn't proving that successful. I have enough dust to craft through a renolock or control priest deck to play with, or i could spend it all on 5 epics to build a Druid since i have none of the needed ones. Decisions...
Click to expand...

Good. Sounds like the game is healthy again.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
sillymonkey321 said:
I'm having a really hard time on the ladder, last month i just face huntered my way through freeze mages, secret paladins, and slow starting patrons. This month that is not working because there are more varied decks i'm facing, and switching to secret paladin with nerubian eggs isn't proving that successful. I have enough dust to craft through a renolock or control priest deck to play with, or i could spend it all on 5 epics to build a Druid since i have none of the needed ones. Decisions...
Click to expand...

A lot of people think I'm just going to play Secret and get to legend but it's not that easy. For example the aggro seceretdin works great against really slow or even fast decks. Not the greatest against midrange decks. Then you have the midrange seceretdin which I think works great against midrange decks. Then you have the silentstorm nerubian egg secretdin which works great against the likes of handlock/freezemage/control warriors.

So if you're going to climb with Secrets you have to know what decks you are consistently queing up against. I know having 3 different Seceret deck sounds excessive but if you're going to pick that deck for climbing you gotta know the in and outs of it and the different variations of it and why they each of them exist.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
25 - 21: dumpster tier
20 - 19: gold portrait farmer cesspool.
19 - 5: whatever bracket
5-1/2: meta grind
1/2 - legend: legend cardback
Legend 500+: good players with time on their hands
 
M

Mixed2k

Member
WesternHeretic said:
-bunch of words-.
Click to expand...

To put it simply, make the best decisions based on the situation every turn.
You take in consideration what cards you have, what your opponent could play (you can know more or less what decks everyone is running) and also how turns will progress during the match.
For example as I was grinding with aggro shaman, there is that moment in which you have to plan how you are going to kill the other dude in the next 2-3 turns, many times taking in consideration top decks.

The ladder system makes the rank 5 the "base" rank that decent players should get at the end of the month, so always aim for at least that. The juicy 500 dust every month now makes it even better.

Also the best advice I can give you and anyone else is that THINK THINK a lot about your first 3 turns. You win or lose games many times just based on that start.

And that example pisses me off, the right play is to Juggle+Hero power. The minibot dies anyways if the guy has consecration because of the weapon. If the other dude has consec ,you still have minibot to fill in the board. If he doesn't you blow him up with 2x juggles.
I better be right or I'll look like an ass
 
O

Owzers

Member
i'm stuck in the whatever bracket, at rank 12. Haven't played a lot, starting to play other decks in casual before i make an effort to get to rank 10 then see how far i get to 5.

i caved and bought black rock after really liking LoE, now i have all the adventures and am starting to have access to more deck options like tempo mage. If only there were more deck slots....
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
For me, around rank 7ish is where I see a noticeable uptick in the quality of players, or at least that's been the case the last few months. Getting to rank 10 is usually cruise control if you have a solid deck and knowledge about the matchups you're facing, both of which come with time. Of course with some of the variance we're seeing right now, even with decks in the same archetype, it gets harder and harder to predict what your opponent is playing.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ViviOggi said:
25 - 21: dumpster tier
20 - 19: gold portrait farmer cesspool.
19 - 5: whatever bracket
5-1/2: meta grind
1/2 - legend: legend cardback
Legend 500+: good players with time on their hands
Click to expand...
Rank 1-2 is basically as tough as playing in Legend, probably even tougher because people in Legend ranks are more likely to be playing joke/experimental decks.

10-5 is also fairly more difficult than 19-10. Like at that level you are still facing try hard who are using refined meta decks trying to get to rank 5 for the 400 monthly dust. This bracket didn't used to be as tough.
 
S

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
MMaRsu said:
Im loving my control warrior right now..

Im sure its not the best, but Ill post a list and hope you guys have some tips for me

got rank 16 ( thats not high I know but I built this deck myself :) )
Click to expand...

CW is good but entomb priest is so painful of a matchup that i haven't play CW in awhile. I would love to see your list.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Back at rank 3 after being at rank 1 earlier in the week
facepalm.gif


Not sure which deck I can field that'll have the best matchups. Tough no matter what I choose probably. But I'll definitely try and make the push before the end of the month.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Back at rank 3 after being at rank 1 earlier in the week
facepalm.gif


Not sure which deck I can field that'll have the best matchups. Tough no matter what I choose probably. But I'll definitely try and make the push before the end of the month.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, blizz will make sure that whatever deck you pick will be matched against its counter.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
The worst part is every Tempo Mage on the planet somehow find Mana Wyrm in their hand and let that fucker grow to the point where it's the most obnoxious thing on the planet. Then when you finally get rid of that fucker the Flamewaker comes down and eat your soul alive.
 
L

Loto

Member
Dahbomb said:
Rank 1-2 is basically as tough as playing in Legend, probably even tougher because people in Legend ranks are more likely to be playing joke/experimental decks.

10-5 is also fairly more difficult than 19-10. Like at that level you are still facing try hard who are using refined meta decks trying to get to rank 5 for the 400 monthly dust. This bracket didn't used to be as tough.
Click to expand...

My experience as well.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Control decks cannot win against Murloc OTK Paladin.

It's actually impossible unless the control deck has their own win condition or burst to kill the Paladin.
 
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