-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Goddamn, fuck Druid combo. Way too much burst.
Haunted
Member
this is the game we play
yeah I know right? every third game its like double emperor reduced force double innervate coin double savage roar right on turn 10!
something needs to be done.
You sure this will work every time? Also, what's the best SMOrc Shaman I can use?
eloiseFAESH
People used to post similar situations where Grim Patron + Warsong + Emperor + a few WW effects + Berserker would OTK through a huge taunt wall (against Handlock).
You don't nerf these edge cases where they have the nuts but just like Patron Druid's combo hitting for big damage is too consistent. It's lame that you can be at around 20 HP and you are worried about dying because they have one creature in play.
Ugh, playing against priests is unfun again. Double entomb and double thoughtsteal stealing all my good cards. Seeing "Created by Thoughtsteal on his Boom is just heartbreaking. Can't play my good cards either until both entombs were gone.
Would've beat him too had he not topdecked his 2nd lightbomb. Managed to lose by one turn of fatigue.
Would've beat him too had he not topdecked his 2nd lightbomb. Managed to lose by one turn of fatigue.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Double thoughtsteal is super greedy and probably bad. Double entomb is legit though. Your Tirion? MY Tirion.
I had Tirion in my hand for something like 10+ turns but couldn't play it because he hadn't played both of his Entombs. Not fun.
I was hanging around 24? HP as a control priest up against a midrange druid yesterday. The only thing he had on board was an azure drake. My only immediate response was an entomb and I didn't feel like burning it since I already used one on a thaurissan and I hadn't seen any DotC's yet. So instead I played a tempo cabal with a stealth spare part hoping to kill it next turn.
That Azure Drake was all he needed. FoN plus double savage roar and he killed me.
Pretty frustrating. Honestly I blame Thaurissan more then anything. You never know when somebody has lethal after he ticks once.
Its been suggested before but FoN/SR can be soft-nerfed by changing FoN to summon 2 3/3s instead of 3 2/2s. So that makes FoN/SR a 9 mana 12 damage combo instead of 14, which is still better than grom + cruel task.
Next change that I feel would be appropriate is to make SR 4 mana up from 3. I mean its basically a better Bloodlust all around (giving attack to the hero as well). People say that SR and BL cannot be compared and that BL is "better" overall past a certain minion count, but fuck, 3 mana 2 attack buff that includes the hero vs 5 mana 3 attack buffs for minions only, its pretty obvious which card I would go for if I were playing a minion based class like say, pally or zoo.
Next change that I feel would be appropriate is to make SR 4 mana up from 3. I mean its basically a better Bloodlust all around (giving attack to the hero as well). People say that SR and BL cannot be compared and that BL is "better" overall past a certain minion count, but fuck, 3 mana 2 attack buff that includes the hero vs 5 mana 3 attack buffs for minions only, its pretty obvious which card I would go for if I were playing a minion based class like say, pally or zoo.
Has anyone here ever participated in or actually helped put together a Fireside?
I just looked up the ones in Toronto coming soon and the variety/quantity was disheartening. There isn't even one happening in downtown TO ( a city of 3-4 million) in January.
I'm kind of interested in spearheading one. Would dig your experiences if you have any to share.
I just looked up the ones in Toronto coming soon and the variety/quantity was disheartening. There isn't even one happening in downtown TO ( a city of 3-4 million) in January.
I'm kind of interested in spearheading one. Would dig your experiences if you have any to share.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Savage Roar is the problem card of course. It's better than Bloodlust up to 3 minions and it's 2 mana cheaper. I don't think nerfing it does much though since Thaurissan is so broken in Druid. They'd essentially have to outright kill the combo for Druid to stop using it.
The thing that even makes it more sad is that the combo pretty much dictates how Druid is designed in the sense that Blizzard will have to design around it to never accidentally make it more powerful for as long as it exists.
Personally I'd like to see the combo killed off and Blizzard go all in on on other archetypes for Druid, whether it be ramp, beast or something else.
The thing that even makes it more sad is that the combo pretty much dictates how Druid is designed in the sense that Blizzard will have to design around it to never accidentally make it more powerful for as long as it exists.
Personally I'd like to see the combo killed off and Blizzard go all in on on other archetypes for Druid, whether it be ramp, beast or something else.
Or make them 3/3s and not have them be able to attack face like Ice Howl. That way they can be a good board control tool.
Agreed. And I love druid but the combo feels broken. However that would require a complete redesign or some great new cards because right now druid is dead without combo.
The problem with nerfing FoN+Savage Roar is that Druid has no reach and no finishers otherwise. You'd force them into a Ramp spec and even then Druid still doesn't have quite the toolset in the early game for that to be a Tier 2 deck right now. They need some better 3 and 4 drops that play defensively or ramp up themselves. .
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The monthly FON+SR outrage discussion?
Yeah, I'm still okay with it.
Yeah, I'm still okay with it.
Super Nothing
Member
I just played 4 or 5 Control Priests in a row. I lost count because the matches took so god damn long. I beat every one of them except for the one with Mind Blast, Flash Heal, Soul Priest combo because he had perfect board clears leading into turn 9 Alex, but it took so long that it's not even worth trying to rank up tonight. Seriously, each match took about 25 minutes except for that one loss. I'm done for the night.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Problem with FoN + SR is you can't nerf either of those because they are Druid's most vital organs. Blizzard would need to revamp the entire class, and Shaman probably needs that first.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Depends on what you got, but general rule of thumb is Naxx before packs. Look at whats in a wing and see if you want that for what you are playing
With LoE out it became a bit more complicated since LoE is far closer to being Naxx levels of good cards then BRM was.
Neither does Priest and they are fine.
Druid has Living Roots, Darnassus and Saber for early game. It's why Aggro Druid works. Which will still work post Force of Nature nerf.
So you want druid to be the same as shaman and hunter. Classes that dont really work outside of aggro decks? Come on is that really the hearthstone you want?
That's because the priest toolset is about removing and stealing things from your opponent and making them run out of gas. Their "finisher" is to drain the life out of the opponent until they use just regular ole' neutral minions to start whittling away at the opponent. Even Dragon Priest essentially does this.
That gameplan really doesn't resemble what Druids do or have at all. Unless you're talking about Ramp Druid, which uses taunts to drain the opponent instead. Which is why Ramp is fine without the combo. (Or fatigue Druid, but the less we talk about fatigue decks the better)
Think about the difference between Mech Mage and Mech Priest. Mech Mage works because it is a tempoy aggressive deck and it can close out a game with fireballs. Mech Priest is sort of tempoy aggressive too and has many of the same cards as Mech Mage but it lacks a tool like fireball. So it can have difficulty closing out a game.
Aggro Druid would basically just be a shitty zoo deck without the combo. Midrange Druid would basically just be a shitty midrange hunter.
I honestly wouldn't mind Hearthstone as a whole getting a redesign of sorts in the next expansion with a slew of new cards added and other problematic cards sent to the bin and relegated to legacy formats.
In fact I'm still sticking to my prediction that this is exactly what Blizzard will do.
irfaanator
Banned
dont nerf my malylock 
Druid doesn't have the quality of removal tools to be like Priest.
Professor Lich
Member
It is very unlikely that there will be any major overhauls for Hearthstone. Sure, there's the Blizzard precedent in their other games being changed and overhauled. However, I feel in the name of simplicity, nothing major is going to change in Hearthstone. So far since the beta, only cards and the ranking systems have been changed.
I'd be radically surprised if there are major changes in a class or how cards can be used.
I'd be radically surprised if there are major changes in a class or how cards can be used.
toddhunter
Member
I've been having a lot of fun with this little deck:
The idea is simple enough, huge minions that your opponent will completely ignore that finally get silenced, defender of argus'd + wind fury.
Combos:
Statue + elemental destruction + windfury
rockbiter weaon + al'akir / doomhammer / anything with windfury
Statue/watcher with silence
Works extremely well against aggro, since they'll ignore things anyway and then get destroyed. Besides, what are they going to do with a taunted 8/8 on turn 4? Silence only helps.
Not to mention the extra silences also ensure you can always get through a wall once you draw the cards.
The idea is simple enough, huge minions that your opponent will completely ignore that finally get silenced, defender of argus'd + wind fury.
Combos:
Statue + elemental destruction + windfury
rockbiter weaon + al'akir / doomhammer / anything with windfury
Statue/watcher with silence
Works extremely well against aggro, since they'll ignore things anyway and then get destroyed. Besides, what are they going to do with a taunted 8/8 on turn 4? Silence only helps.
Not to mention the extra silences also ensure you can always get through a wall once you draw the cards.
No I want them to introduce better control cards for Druid so they can play a control game. Right now no matter what they introduce it won't matter because the Combo deck is superior. If a Druid card doesn't do damage, ramp or draw.. it's not used.
And Druid already plays the Shaman and Hunter game just in the Midrange fashion. Both Shaman and Hunter exist as Midrange too (Hunter finishes you kill commands, Shaman finishes you with Bloodlust).
Honestly speaking Recycle should've worked like Entomb for Druid.
CraigerGamer
Member
I really like this version of SP. I dropped a muster, Ador, Abusive and juggler. Added 2 Argent Horseman, Truesilver and a competitive spirit.
I like AH because I find paladin doesn't have anything to clear minions in the early game. I never go face with it, it's there strictly for board control.
There are so many ways to trigger the egg and it's awesome on turn 3 because a mirror can't consecrate without springing the 4/4. Thanks for posting this.
I had a game as Renolock where I healed around 65 life in total. Against Mid-Hunter, Reno ran into a freezing trap. Had bad draw, he beat me down to 10 again. 2nd Reno. Later Bran came and I triggered Earthen Ring Farseer and Antique Healbot twice.
That must have felt infuriating, dealing so much damage and still loosing.
That must have felt infuriating, dealing so much damage and still loosing.
Actually going by this comment by Brode, there is gotta be major changes coming.
Ben Brode said:
They've teasing plans for 2016 for some months now. I'm not sure how they can address entry barrier problem without excluding set. Just set aside Naxx and GvG for 2016, suddenly the game is fresh again.
Because they have no idea what they're doing with Shaman. Something was gonna stick eventually, and with most of their midrange/control kit being out-powercreeped to oblivion, plus the current meta, what else could it be if not full retard aggro?
Professor Lich
Member
Interesting, guess I missed/forgot about that. I'm a bit excited to see what they plan on doing then. However, that quote mainly talks about new players getting into the game though.
If it isn't aggro it will be secrets paladin. Blizzard needs to introduce a new set soon and/or nerf some cards stat.
SonicXtreme
Member
I usually ignore card whining, but honestly the best way to even out the game, without changing a single card is this; u pick a class pre game. Then before the mulligan screen, u can pick a sub deck for that class. That way if I pick Mage, and I'm facing Druid, I can pick my double counter spell deck, essentially nerfing combo via player knowledge and deck selection instead of constantly having people whine about cards. Cards like spellbender would become extremely useful bc if I faced paladin I could spec those cards into my anti pally Mage deck. Ud be able to spec a deck for each class vs each class.
Of course that'd require 9 deck slots per class but. It's the easiest way to balance the whole game without constant whining IMO. Will never happen obvi but I don't see how it wouldn't fix every single balancing issue people have about hearth since I could build a nice counter to any class for any class if I could, I believe.
Of course that'd require 9 deck slots per class but. It's the easiest way to balance the whole game without constant whining IMO. Will never happen obvi but I don't see how it wouldn't fix every single balancing issue people have about hearth since I could build a nice counter to any class for any class if I could, I believe.
Sideboards are indeed never gonna happen, what's somewhat realistic is a bo3 ladder w/ bans. The problem is either way you still can't tech against today's curve gods, the tools simply aren't there.
I'd expect the next announcement to come at PAX East (April 22-24). That's been their go-to convention following Blizzcon. They even did the initial reveal at PAX back in March 2013.
July 2014 - Curse of Naxxramas (PAX East)
December 2014 - Goblin vs Gnomes (Blizzcon)
April 2015 - Blackrock Mountain (PAX East)
June 2015 - Tavern Brawl (battle.net)
August 2015 - The Grand Tournament (Special event)
November 2015 - The League of Explorers (Blizzcon)
I'm guessing March for the next expansion to be RELEASED, so probably announce in February or early March.
Interesting choice on AH, he is a really solid minion after all and can synergize with abusive as well. I'm not too sure about dropping a muster though, that card is just such a strong t3 tempo card.
Right now I'm testing a change by swapping out Aldor for an Owl, although I might be better off with Loatheb instead. Loatheb helps prevent some key spells (light bomb/FoN+SR/double fireball), while owl can help with taunts/early game tempo by silencing key drops like mad scientists as well.
Deck is not without flaws of course, if you are behind and have to top-deck, you pretty much can't comeback since 26/30 of the deck consists of 1-4 mana drops. I mean, I've had a zoo proc avenge on my egg followed by a silence on top of curving out well, pulling off knife juggler into coin implosion etc, but that's not going to happen often so I'm fine with it. Just one of those e-sports games.
Early game is definitely a lot more consistent vs the older version I ran with shredders, loatheb + belcher though, and Uldaman is the MVP that makes the eggs that much more consistent.