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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
There are definitely ways Priest can win. In my Priest deck I have double Chow, Auechani and Flash Heal a with Justicar. After I have used Justicar I save up my heals and Chow then when the Warlock player plays Jaraxxus I just burst them with Auchenai and heals.
But it's still a Handlock favored match up.
But it's still a Handlock favored match up.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I tried handlock out once, way too slow for me D:
BananasWithGuns
Member
Nothing like a barrage of Paladins to remind you how awful this game is.
murloc or secret?
BananasWithGuns
Member
Both.
Edit: Priest plays his Elise like 8 turns after me. Finds his map and his monkey before I even get my map. Maybe I'm just done for the day.
bronkonagurski
Member
I had a game the other night where my opponent drew the map and monkey on the two turns immediately following Elise. And this was like mid-game where he still had plenty of other cards in his hand. It was unreal.
First time I played Elise, I tapped, got the map, played it, and it drew Golden Monkey. That got a "Well played" out of my opponent.
Depends on how prevalent midrange will be with the new expansion. Anyfin Paladin does have its weaknesses.
Anyfin is weak against heavy aggro and anything with burst damage. They have to run double Doomsayers just to counter this weakness. They also carry Aldors and Keeper of Uldamans with double Equality and Pyromancers.
Most of the sticky minions are being removed which means their Equality clears will be more effective. The rest gets handled by Uldaman/Aldor. Furthermore, general aggression will be far lower in Standard starting out unless Blizzard messes up big time with the expansion.
The deck already crushes control decks. Once it becomes difficult to close out games fast against it, then it will be really hard to counter it. But like all draw heavy decks, there is always the Mill counter.
CraigerGamer
Member
too bad if you silence or reduce the damage of a Murloc it doesnt come back out that way if Anyfin'd. That would be kind of cool.
Nerf any card that's too good? I didn't say that. I'm not sure anyone did actually.
And kill class identity in the process? I'm not sure what to say. I spent my a good part of my post explaining why I felt that Ancient of Lore conflicted with Druid's class identity. If you disagree with any of what I wrote, it would've been nice if you actually addressed a couple of the points I raised.
But to reiterate as simply as I can: Druid's mana acceleration cards exchange card advantage for tempo. Yet when you play Druid, how often is card advantage an actual concern?
Wild Growth and Innervate were designed on the basis of exchanging cards for mana. Darnassus Aspirant being a small minion actually follows this as well -- you get mana if it sticks around but, if it doesn't, you don't get any mana and you take a hit value-wise.
As I said before, I think Ancient of Lore conflicts with what Druid should be.
On to your other point, I agree with you. If Savage Roar gets nerfed alongside Ancient of Lore, then Druid won't have any clear way to win games. I know a lot of people here would rather see Savage Roar get changed and not FoN, but I think changing FoN is the way to go, even though Savage Roar obviously the more powerful card.
FoN+SR rewards you for getting you opponent to 14 health or lower.
Savage Roar alone is a card that rewards you for having initiative on board.
Dealing large amounts of damage in a single turn isn't necessarily a problem. Dealing large amounts of damage in a single turn with nothing on the board is a problem.
RumblingRosco
Member
Y'all are talking about Murloc Paladin crushing Control and man, it is so true. My Reno Shaman can't do shit to them.
Didn't say anyone did, but there is an implication with Druid that just because a card is good it deserves to be in the conversation (Keeper has been mentioned too due to its cheap-ish silence effect). There are cards that need a nerf and there are cards that are just good because they are class cards so they need to be, like the ones I mentioned above. Doomguard is actually a pretty good equivalent. In some scenarios (best case) you got rid of your hand early and its implicit drawback becomes nonexistent. When Zoo was more common and dominant you bet people were calling for a Doomguard nerf on the basis that getting rid of your hand on curve wasn't hard at all.
I didn't single out your post because you were not the only one to mention it. Several people have on top of Kripp's video. Well, I obviously disagree with what you think Druid should be. Ramp is one aspect of Druid, but saying that one thing and thing only defines a class is too close minded for me. Offensive and Defensive Balance (hero power) and minion versatility before powerful stat distribution (choose one, for example) is as much part of the Druid's identity as ramp is. Wild Growth has already been phased out by a fast meta simply because you can't afford to skip a turn for one empty mana. Cards like Shielded Minibot punish you very hard for it. Turn 7 might as well be irrelevant at that point. Card acceleration is needed because Druid's early game has been very lacking but it can all change.
How often is card advantage a concern? I'm not sure you can even single out AoL for that. How many times you actually get to play it way ahead of curve and take advantage of it with mana acceleration? Best case scenario (Double Innervate + Coin) might still net you an even hand, but if you have played it before you know it feels no less than an all in: sacrificing strategy for a scary minion and top decks. Even if card advantage is not a concern right now because of combo and sticky minions and several other things, there's still a trade-off of board and tempo for value because it is a midgame body with a lategame cost that is not that hard to deal with all things considered. Board I would say, is just as important, and extra mana is not always enough to play from behind on board, because as I pointed out, Druid has another weak spot coming from mid into lategame: efficient removal.
Probably feels more punishing than it really is because of what we've both already agreed does need a nerf: combo.
What is this shit?
I've seen more Gold Portraits in ranks 18-20 than all the other ranks combined. What the absolute fuck? And getting out of these ranks is such a shit show! It's so difficult. No wonder new players can't do anything, there's farmers all in these lower ranks. What is even the point of a Gold Portrait if you have nothing to back it up? Tens of hours of wasted time for a pat on the back?
I'm about to switch to a freaking Aggro deck just to get this over with.
I've seen more Gold Portraits in ranks 18-20 than all the other ranks combined. What the absolute fuck? And getting out of these ranks is such a shit show! It's so difficult. No wonder new players can't do anything, there's farmers all in these lower ranks. What is even the point of a Gold Portrait if you have nothing to back it up? Tens of hours of wasted time for a pat on the back?
I'm about to switch to a freaking Aggro deck just to get this over with.
Yup, just farming for gold off new players. As i've said, Blizzard needs to put in one way gates all along the ladder. These guys that want go and farm and drop rank over and over are (and do and will continue to) frustrate new players into either A) buying more packs to compete, or B) leaving the game in frustration if they keep getting killed by turn 5-7 by vastly vastly superior cards. Now what is the split, who knows, but it's ridiculous to think Blizzard is allowing this and, without any new news of a change in that blog post, will continue to allow it.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Yeah it's awful, you have to get lucky enough to avoid them until you reach rank 15-16, then it's okay. I think it's baffling that Blizzard hasn't even tried to do anything about it, new players already have a rough enough time trying to get into the game.
Well with Druid untouched any fin will be beat down since it lost a lot of survivability with the loss of sludge and antique healbot. Paladin decks were slammed all around.
All the Murlocs are in Classic.
2x Bluegill
2x Warleaders
1x Old Murkey eye
2x Anyfin (LoE)
2x Doomsayers
2x Aldors
2x Tuskarr Jouster or any other solid heal, maybe Kings
2x Lay of Hands
2x Solemn Vigils
2x Acolyte
2x Equailty
2x Wild Pyromancer
2x Truesilver
2x Consecrate
2x Aldor
2x Keeper of Uldaman
There done. All of these cards are valid in Standard.
I am not sure why Classic wouldn't include Bonus cards, that would make no sense.
thoughtsteal sacrificial pact GG
Druid will get nerfed.
Yeah as if a Handlock player is going to have Sac Pact in their deck..
https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/695863914496552960
They are still discussing whether reward set cards will be in standard or not. So yeah, chances are we say bye bye to murk eye too. It will fix the problem I guess.
They are still discussing whether reward set cards will be in standard or not. So yeah, chances are we say bye bye to murk eye too. It will fix the problem I guess.
I feel like this conversation is becoming more complicated than it needs to be.
Druids have a mechanic that sacrifices cards for mana. They also have very good card draw.
So druids have this mechanic with a downside, and then they also get given tools to mitigate the downside.
I think the fact that they have both is -- from a very fundamental perspective on class design and balance -- odd, to say the least.
You mentioned that ramp is not the only the thing that defines Druid, and that's true. I'm just not sure how that's supposed to change the way I'm looking at this.
Officerrob
Banned
It's starting to seem like they announced this way too soon
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I think this is an unpopular opinion but I really love Mirror Image.
Karsticles
Member
Your avatar is some great fan art.
I am not anti-Mirror Image. I've had solid Mages use it effectively to keep my zoo at bay for a turn or two so they can AoE.
It's a fun card, I wouldn't sweat it.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Mana Wyrm + Mirror Image and KT + Mirror Image are just such devastating combos that I can't stop playing the card.
So I just spent a ton of money on gvg cards and naxxramas and just spent the dust for dr. boom, and now that shit is wasted because of this change that I didn't know about.
Might be done with this game, doesn't matter to Blizzard though, they already took like half my disposable money since I started playing a month ago.
Thanks a lot Blizzard.
Might be done with this game, doesn't matter to Blizzard though, they already took like half my disposable money since I started playing a month ago.
Thanks a lot Blizzard.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I think I just had my very first game vs a secret paladin, had a golden portrait too, somehow managed to win. Pretty sure I would've had no chance if he didn't let me mirror image both Mysterious Challenger and Justicar though(did not expect Justicar either). Even then though MC provides such a huge swing in momentum even though I had control.
At the end he had a full board, I had nothing but two fireballs and an arcane intellect while he had 15 health. I found frost bolt, won next turn. Really fun game, though I bet these are much less fun usually.
At the end he had a full board, I had nothing but two fireballs and an arcane intellect while he had 15 health. I found frost bolt, won next turn. Really fun game, though I bet these are much less fun usually.
Sorry that happened, but I've been advocating people not to spend any real money on Hearthstone since shortly after GVG came out,
You'll be able to hopefully dust those cards for their full value.
I also wouldn't blame Blizzard for you spending your money lol.
Well they aren't worthless, there is going to be two leaders with the exact same rewards, one just happens to not allow gvg and naxx cards and one that will. So you can still use them and still use them in brawls. And until that new expansion comes they are still strong.
Goes to prove secret paladins don't have the ability to play around secrets, they just think it's face roll to a win.
I saw that BGH mana breakdown from the top of the page. So can someone explain the Hunter Secrets to me?
The Mage ones are balanced because their effects of copying minions, raising new ones, cancelling spells, etc, all depend on your opponent and thus, can not be fully controlled. You can get anywhere from 1 mana to 10 mana worth of value from your 3 investment.
Hunter secrets are 2 mana but are bear trap that summons a 3 mana creature. Explosive which is one mana less than Holy Nova or two Arcane Explosions, 4 mana worth. Freezing. Which I would completely disagree on the foundation of the card. Because the secret triggers WHILE the minion is attacking, the add plus two mana is more like a sap and man penalty. 4 mana worth. If it was AFTER minion attacked, that'd be different. All the other ones seem balanced. And therefore don't see play.
EDIT: Wouldn't be so sure about gutting Tempo Mage. Arcane Explosion, Forgotten Torch, Ice Lance, they just need one more two of spell to stay in the game.
The Mage ones are balanced because their effects of copying minions, raising new ones, cancelling spells, etc, all depend on your opponent and thus, can not be fully controlled. You can get anywhere from 1 mana to 10 mana worth of value from your 3 investment.
Hunter secrets are 2 mana but are bear trap that summons a 3 mana creature. Explosive which is one mana less than Holy Nova or two Arcane Explosions, 4 mana worth. Freezing. Which I would completely disagree on the foundation of the card. Because the secret triggers WHILE the minion is attacking, the add plus two mana is more like a sap and man penalty. 4 mana worth. If it was AFTER minion attacked, that'd be different. All the other ones seem balanced. And therefore don't see play.
EDIT: Wouldn't be so sure about gutting Tempo Mage. Arcane Explosion, Forgotten Torch, Ice Lance, they just need one more two of spell to stay in the game.
Mech mage is so dead too. That thing got nuked out of existence.
I will still hate secret paladin more.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Mech mage is dead for sure(mech anything really), but I'm sure tempo mage will get some stuff to make up for losing flame cannon and portal, and if it does I'll continue to be playing it even if it ends up being worse.
No scientist is a huge blow but I hate that card anyway so whatever.
No scientist is a huge blow but I hate that card anyway so whatever.
Karsticles
Member
Nope, just one. Feel free to share your secret.
Would've lightbombed the shit outta that if it was.
Good old shredder that dropped a millhouse after I traded while having a pain in hand. RIP.