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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt

D

Dahbomb

Member
Dragon Priest is the most fair deck in the game that is still good/playable. The Ryu deck of Hearthstone.

No Deathrattle minions that summon another minion, no Divine Shield minions, no huge burst from hand, no over powered heal/stall mechanic, no token generation that combos with Knife Juggler, no cheat tempo play etc. Just clean, effecient bodies.

I guess Entomb is the most OP thing about the deck but that's not really a requirement, it's just that Entomb is too good not to include in every Priest deck.
 
accel

accel

Member
Watched this finale that was called "amazing" on the previous page. Reddit drools all over it, they made an entire thread.

Pardon my French, but that's just another stupid RNG fest.

How many of the plays in that best of 5 showed any skill at all? Two? Heck, how many plays involved any counting that would take more than 10 seconds? Not many. Four of the five games were completely on rails.

I apologize for sounding bitter, I guess it was my mistake to expect something less like a slot machine and more like chess, but yeah. (I promise I won't comment on further tournaments unless I have to say something good. I understand the game is fun for some. I am just so angry at Blizzard for wasting so much potential.)
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Dahbomb said:
Dragon Priest is the most fair deck in the game that is still good/playable. The Ryu deck of Hearthstone.

No Deathrattle minions that summon another minion, no Divine Shield minions, no huge burst from hand, no over powered heal/stall mechanic, no token generation that combos with Knife Juggler, no cheat tempo play etc. Just clean, effecient bodies.

I guess Entomb is the most OP thing about the deck but that's not really a requirement, it's just that Entomb is too good not to include in every Priest deck.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by fair, however dragon cards, especially that 2 mana 2/4 taunt are as if you've got wild growth activated. And wild growth is not a "fair" card, as people define the word "fair" to mean playing by the mana "rules" of hearthstone. It's like you're spending additional mana on your minion (when they are activated of course), or at least you're getting the benefit of an additional .5-1 mana.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
blackcrane said:
Watched this finale that was called "amazing" on the previous page. Reddit drools all over it, they made an entire thread.

Pardon my French, but that's just another stupid RNG fest.

How many of the plays in that best of 5 showed any skill at all? Two? Heck, how many plays involved any counting that would take more than 10 seconds? Not many. Four of the five games were completely on rails.

I apologize for sounding bitter, I guess it was my mistake to expect something less like a slot machine and more like chess, but yeah. (I promise I won't comment on further tournaments unless I have to say something good. I understand the game is fun for some. I am just so angry at Blizzard for wasting so much potential.)
Click to expand...
What do you think the game should look like? What kinds of cards and plays are skillful to you?

Dahbomb said:
Dragon Priest is the most fair deck in the game that is still good/playable. The Ryu deck of Hearthstone.

No Deathrattle minions that summon another minion, no Divine Shield minions, no huge burst from hand, no over powered heal/stall mechanic, no token generation that combos with Knife Juggler, no cheat tempo play etc. Just clean, effecient bodies.

I guess Entomb is the most OP thing about the deck but that's not really a requirement, it's just that Entomb is too good not to include in every Priest deck.
Click to expand...
Nothing fair about a 2/3 for one mana and no drawbacks. Why isn't there a Dragonlock? I get that the bodies synergize with Priest due to naturally high HP.
 
accel

accel

Member
Karsticles said:
What do you think the game should look like? What kinds of cards and plays are skillful to you?
Click to expand...

The ones where there is a choice between several possible plays and that choice depends more on what you think you and your opponent are going to decide to do rather than what you and your opponent will be able to do due to random effects (including draw).

(If you now say "all card games are like that", I won't object, you might be right.)
 
X

Xanathus

Member
blackcrane said:
The ones where there is a choice between several possible plays and that choice depends more on what you think you and your opponent are going to decide to do rather than what you and your opponent will be able to do due to random effects (including draw).

(If you now say "all card games are like that", I won't object, you might be right.)
Click to expand...

There were a ton of choices at the point 5-6 turns before the end of the game where there were 2 Yseras on the board. It's obvious this was the case because both players made very huge mistakes, including the one by Savjz choosing to draw with Circle of Healing.
 
accel

accel

Member
Xanathus said:
There were a ton of choices at the point 5-6 turns before the end of the game where there were 2 Yseras on the board. It's obvious this was the case because both players made very huge mistakes, including the one by Savjz choosing to draw with Circle of Healing.
Click to expand...

Now look at the number of choices in previous games.

The last game had it better in terms of the number of things to count, yes. But there were plenty of mistakes as you mention, and the kicker is - they weren't punished (and many couldn't).

I mean it's fun that there were multiple Varians and Yseras and the guy who ended up with two Yseras lost, but that's not skill, that's just "wowowoooow two Varians!!! omgomg". In terms of skill we have misplays and the deciding hit from the final draw that the casters thought would be something else. That's it.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
blackcrane said:
Now look at the number of choices in previous games.

The last game had it better in terms of the number of things to count, yes. But there were plenty of mistakes as you mention, and the kicker is - they weren't punished (and many couldn't).
Click to expand...

That's exactly what a lot of people are bitching about Hearthstone in general currently. Nearly every normal game nowadays using top tier decks have zero hard decisions to be made because they're all tempo based and the plays are brain-dead obvious. However you used the last game as an example of an RNGfest and that's NOT true, the last game ended up being a control match-up which is closer to how Hearthstone used to be played in tourneys when it first came out.
 
accel

accel

Member
Xanathus said:
That's exactly what a lot of people are bitching about Hearthstone in general currently. Nearly every normal game nowadays using top tier decks have zero hard decisions to be made because they're all tempo based and the plays are brain-dead obvious. However you used the last game as an example of an RNGfest and that's NOT true, the last game ended up being a control match-up which is closer to how Hearthstone used to be played in tourneys when it first came out.
Click to expand...

I said the finale is an RNG fest, the last game was better than the other four although I am not impressed by it in any way either.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Is there something I don't know about Secrets? Sometimes they just don't activate for me.

For example, I put Duplicate down, then Wolf Rider. Attacked with Wolf Rider. No Duplicate proc.

Just lost me the game.
 
H

Heropon

Member
I wasn't too much in a hurry for standard to come but then after several matches of portal -> Wrynn, innervate boom -> combo, minibot -> muster -> ... I can't wait for it too come. I'll miss my mechs but it's going to be worth it unless the next expansion does everything wrong.
 
A

Apathy

Member
I hate that muster generates the weapon last, so a paladin can have a sword of justice on, use muster and generate ask the dudes buffed up before the weapon gets replaced by a lights justice, so dumb.

On a different note, for the upcoming expansion, I really really hope that it ties in with the wow expansion in some way, good cross game marketing plus would love to see more neutral demons.

Karsticles said:
What do you think the game should look like? What kinds of cards and plays are skillful to you?


Nothing fair about a 2/3 for one mana and no drawbacks. Why isn't there a Dragonlock? I get that the bodies synergize with Priest due to naturally high HP.
Click to expand...

If you mean the whelp, there us a drawback, it needs a dragon activator.
 
L

Lyng

Member
Xanathus said:
That's exactly what a lot of people are bitching about Hearthstone in general currently. Nearly every normal game nowadays using top tier decks have zero hard decisions to be made because they're all tempo based and the plays are brain-dead obvious. However you used the last game as an example of an RNGfest and that's NOT true, the last game ended up being a control match-up which is closer to how Hearthstone used to be played in tourneys when it first came out.
Click to expand...

People just need to understand what Hearthstone is. Its a cardgame for casual gamers. Much like Blizzards other games. And there is nothing wrong with that.

If you want deeper more strategic card games you should really play something like Netrunner or Twilight Struggle.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
GwyndolinCinder said:
You might wanna read the card text.
Click to expand...

Apathy said:
I hate that muster generates the weapon last, so a paladin can have a sword of justice on, use muster and generate ask the dudes buffed up before the weapon gets replaced by a lights justice, so dumb.

On a different note, for the upcoming expansion, I really really hope that it ties in with the wow expansion in some way, good cross game marketing plus would love to see more neutral demons.



If you mean the whelp, there us a drawback, it needs a dragon activator.
Click to expand...
That's not a drawback. A drawback is something like Chow or Flame Imp.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Karsticles said:
That's not a drawback. A drawback is something like Chow or Flame Imp.
Click to expand...

It literally has a drawback, just not the one you want to see. The dragon activator might not seem significant but you basically need 2 cards for the card not to be a shitty 1 instead of a good one, I don't see how that's less impactful early on than Flame Imp's drawback for example.

The difference is that the Whelp's drawback doesn't even happen most of the time but when it does it's way more devastating for you than giving the opponent 5 health or taking 3.
 
T

Tarazet

Member
Gentle Rodriguez said:
It literally has a drawback, just not the one you want to see. The dragon activator might not seem significant but you basically need 2 cards for the card not to be a shitty 1 instead of a good one, I don't see how that's less impactful early on than Flame Imp's drawback for example.

The difference is that the Whelp's drawback doesn't even happen most of the time but when it does it's way more devastating for you than giving the opponent 5 health or taking 3.
Click to expand...

That's why every Priest to ever play has Northshire Cleric + PW:S on turn 1. Plus the coin.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
I played Warrior for a bit yesterday and I swear I had at least one Fiery War Axe in my hand by turn 2 every single game. I wish my mulligan was as consistent when playing Tempo Mage, and I have at least 3 times as many decent 2 drops I like to see in my starting hand. Confirmation bias is one hell of a thing.

Speaking of which. Is it advisable as a warrior to keep 2 FWAs? Or should I mulligan one away?
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
Fireblend said:
I played Warrior for a bit yesterday and I swear I had at least one Fiery War Axe in my hand by turn 2 every single game. I wish my mulligan was as consistent when playing Tempo Mage, and I have at least 3 times as many decent 2 drops I like to see in my starting hand. Confirmation bias is one hell of a thing.

Speaking of which. Is it advisable as a warrior to keep 2 FWAs? Or should I mulligan one away?
Click to expand...

It's not confirmation bias. Warrior always fucking has FWA. Just like Mage's always have Mana Wyrm on turn 1 despite only having no other 1 drop. Kappa

I haven't seen Warriors keep 2 FWA's in hand, usually they will use a Death's Bite later.
 
R

Ridli

Member
Yeah Dragon Priest is in a pretty good place overall. I'd like to say that if the ladder was full of decks of its caliber, people would be less salty. But, I can't say that because this is hearthstone. The salt must flow.

I will say that going first w/ Dragon Priest feels pretty terrible since there is a significant risk of not getting an activator without the extra card. I've lost a significant number of games just by not getting a dragon (or playable dragon) in hand within the first 3 turns. Personally, I started running Chow in my dragon priest along with Twilight Drakes just to help ensure an early game, but that means I'm running very few spells and don't really have a catch-up mechanic. I hope there's another decent 1-drop body in the expansion, I'd hate to have to resort to Gadgetzan jouster.
 
I

inky

Member
My favorite was:

Play Redemption, kill own Scarlet Crusader. Oh hey, it's a 3/1 with DS for 1 mana again!

Worked with almost any minion really.
 
P

Professor Lich

Member
ZealousD said:
Secrets used to activate on your own turn as well, but people would do dumb things with Eye for an Eye.
Click to expand...

Even though it'd be broken as hell, I kind of wish Secrets would work on your turn. I had a lot of fun being able to clear with a Charger like Rocketeer and then having it come back to deal damage again. Get the mad combo with Avenge too.

But overall it's better that you can't anymore.

Though I think it'd be kind of cool if Hunters got a card like Trap Launcher that allowed them to use a Trap as a direct spell or something.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
inky said:
My favorite was:

Play Redemption, kill own Scarlet Crusader. Oh hey, it's a 3/1 with DS for 1 mana again!

Worked with almost any minion really.
Click to expand...

Yeah. These days a Redemption strategy only really works with Sunwalker and Belcher. Pretty funny when paired with Kel'thuzad though, if you can get that to work.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Apathy said:
You'd be surprised how often because of bad draws you're left without a dragon activator.
Click to expand...
Then you get a 2/1 for 1 mana, which isn't bad for your first drop. If I could change Flame Imp to be a 2/1 that becomes a 3/2 if I have a Demon in my hand when I play him, I would absolutely do that over taking 3 damage.

Gentle Rodriguez said:
It literally has a drawback, just not the one you want to see. The dragon activator might not seem significant but you basically need 2 cards for the card not to be a shitty 1 instead of a good one, I don't see how that's less impactful early on than Flame Imp's drawback for example.

The difference is that the Whelp's drawback doesn't even happen most of the time but when it does it's way more devastating for you than giving the opponent 5 health or taking 3.
Click to expand...

Ladekabel said:
The drawback ist that you need a specific card with a specific tag in hand. You could drop Twilight Welp, Wyrmrest Agent and co. on curve but without a dragon in hand they are subpar.
Click to expand...
That's like saying Abusive Sergeant has a drawback in that he's subpar if you play him without a target. That's not a drawback.

ZealousD said:
Secrets used to activate on your own turn as well, but people would do dumb things with Eye for an Eye.
Click to expand...
Hahahaha, that sounds crazy.

GwyndolinCinder said:
Yeah you are right, fuck reno aswell that card has no draw back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Fuck Reno 100% of the time no matter what. Though I got my 5 Mage wins using a trashy Reno Mage deck in Tavern.
 
A

Apathy

Member
Karsticles said:
Then you get a 2/1 for 1 mana, which isn't bad for your first drop. If I could change Flame Imp to be a 2/1 that becomes a 3/2 if I have a Demon in my hand when I play him, I would absolutely do that over taking 3 damage.




That's like saying Abusive Sergeant has a drawback in that he's subpar if you play him without a target. That's not a drawback.


Hahahaha, that sounds crazy.


Fuck Reno 100% of the time no matter what. Though I got my 5 Mage wins using a trashy Reno Mage deck in Tavern.
Click to expand...

The whole point of the whelp is that you are building a deck around having dragons. To drop it as a 2/1 defeats the purpose of having it. I might as well play a broken abusive sergeant. The flame imp is a 3/2 is to take a dominant position on turn 1 regardless of whats in your hand.
 
accel

accel

Member
Professor Lich said:
Even though it'd be broken as hell, I kind of wish Secrets would work on your turn. I had a lot of fun being able to clear with a Charger like Rocketeer and then having it come back to deal damage again. Get the mad combo with Avenge too.

But overall it's better that you can't anymore.

Though I think it'd be kind of cool if Hunters got a card like Trap Launcher that allowed them to use a Trap as a direct spell or something.
Click to expand...

If they ever do allow activating your own secrets (no opinion if that'd be better or worse), they'd better stop calling them secrets, because they'd just be used as spells. Pop a freezing trap, sap the biggest guy with one of your small minions.
 
A

Apathy

Member
For tournament games, do you guys like when the screen changes player perspective every turn like this one? I personally prefer it just staying on one and showing me the cards of the other one.
 
accel

accel

Member
Apathy said:
For tournament games, do you guys like when the screen changes player perspective every turn like this one? I personally prefer it just staying on one and showing me the cards of the other one.
Click to expand...

I prefer one player fixed at the bottom and the other fixed at the top, no switches. (I rolled my eyes when one of the recent streams started switching them, that was annoying.)
 
P

Professor Lich

Member
blackcrane said:
If they ever do allow activating your own secrets (no opinion if that'd be better or worse), they'd better stop calling them secrets, because they'd just be used as spells. Pop a freezing trap, sap the biggest guy with one of your small minions.
Click to expand...
To be fair, all Secrets already count as spells, they're just under their own sub-type.

As for the idea itself, it already exsisted in WoW once, not sure if it's still there. Basically, when you use a trap ability you place it down at your feet as a Hunter. The Trap launcher ability was something you had to trigger first, then when you used a trap ability, you were given range to fire it. It was one of the more clunkier things to do out there, which is funny because if memory serves, Hunters always got the the clunky-ist stuff too.

As for Hearthstone, it's hard to see it actually being a thing. It'd have to be a 0-1 mana spell and even then you'd be giving up two cards for two others that do nothing on thier own. However, I could see it work ling well if Lock and Load Hunter was ever a thing but now with a rotating format, it'll probably never be one.
 
P

peakish

Member
Man fuck that floating watcher. Never see that card on streams but it's pretty much my bane at rank 15-20. Double nerubian egg + power overwhelming into that crap hit me a game back, I was happy to look it up afterwards and see that it's a GnG card and on it's way out.

Edit: Wait a minute, wrong name. Void Terror, and it's classic fuuuu

At least eggs are on the way out.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Karsticles said:
Nothing fair about a 2/3 for one mana and no drawbacks. Why isn't there a Dragonlock? I get that the bodies synergize with Priest due to naturally high HP.
Click to expand...
The 2/3 needs a Dragon activator. Those cards need an entire deck built around them, hence the fairness. A 2/4 is just one stat above normal as is a 2/3 1 drop. Those cards don't have any other godlike ability aside from having one more stat than the normal. Plus they are class cards which are already stated above the normal range. The 2/3 Dragon is not much different from Warlock getting a 1/3 Taunt demon on turn 1 only the Dragon actually needs an activator.

Malylock is a solid Dragon themed Warlock deck. However, what makes Dragons shine in Priest vs let's say Warrior or any other class is that Priest can utilize the 1 extra stats of Dragon synergy better than other classes can due to the minion heal.


Karsticles said:
That's like saying Abusive Sergeant has a drawback in that he's subpar if you play him without a target. That's not a drawback.
Click to expand...
That actually IS a considerable draw back. It means that Abusive Sergeant is a bad turn 1 play and it's a bad play when you have a weak/no board. Also if you aren't a face deck and you can trade minions without an attack buff then the Battlecry goes into overkill territory. It's pretty bad having a hand with two Abusive Sergeants with nothing good to play them on.
 
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