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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I've never seen this quest back log happen and I had more than a week of not playing recently.
It did... but not in the way I expected.
Roughly at the same spot as I reached 20, I got my first legendary from a pack. Ragnaros.
I just know I'm gonna feel dirty every time I get to play it. Deck mostly basic cards, and then suddenly eight damage from hand
Most of the crap you see on ladder is much dirtier than Ragnaros, believe me. He isn't even that strong with all the weenie decks like zoo.
It's definitely happened to me before on NA but yeah, it's not at all consistent.
Oh I don't doubt there are much stronger cards and synergy combos, but I'm talking about infamy. Just faced a druid in arena who was winning against me on board and health, only to ragequit when I played Ysera without any real plan for the turn after.
Karsticles
Member
A man who hates Priests is a friend of mine.
Thanks for the info!
You have to look for that stuff, though. Like when I have 3 minions on turn 2 against a Priest, and that Priest plays Pyromancer, coin, and then PW: Shield for 2 damage to everything, wiping my board, I look back and think:
1) I should have played a Nerubian Egg or Haunted Creeper instead of more weenies.
2) I should have taken his coin into consideration.
Ditto with Rogues that use SI:Agent off of a coin - that's a killer combo. That's why, because I know Rogues want to use the combo, I try to choose a minion that I am most okay with getting nuked on the next turn.
I'm just now getting to the point where I know what the common opposing actions are for my opponent, and it's making a big difference in my play. It's all about knowing common deck themes + potential draws + current mana pool. I will blow everything I have early on vs. Mages these days because I know they don't get a real wipe until 6 mana. Then, I also know that Tempo and Mech mages don't run Blizzard, so I can be even more aggressive up to turn 7. By turn 7, though, I need a backup plan for when the board wipes.
I find this part of the game rather enjoyable, personally. I am still free to swipe just by the nature of my deck, though.
It's not good to blow everything against Mages at start because they can punish with Flamewaker, Coin and Arcane Missiles. Zoo can get away with throwing stuff at start because of all their sticky, over stated minions but after Standard goes live plays like that would be punished more often.
I am personally glad Nerubian egg and most deathrattle cards are going the way of the dodo. That bullshit should never have made it into the game.
I dislike the random deathrattles like on piloted shredder, but on the egg you know what's coming, you can plan for it.
Karsticles
Member
On the note of Flamewaker: why do people consider him fair, and Knife Juggler unfair? They have similar designs.
Also, I wish people would stop talking about how Standard will play without seeing the new set. Maybe we'll get a Haunted Creeper 2.0 - who knows?
Without any kind of Deathrattle effects that drop mini-minions, Zoolock will have a lot of trouble.
If I notice they're Tempo Mage, I tend to be a little more reserved because of that combo. But if he gets the Flamewaker on the board and clears me, I don't have a lot of options to come back.
Also, I wish people would stop talking about how Standard will play without seeing the new set. Maybe we'll get a Haunted Creeper 2.0 - who knows?
Without any kind of Deathrattle effects that drop mini-minions, Zoolock will have a lot of trouble.
Why? I mean, Nerubian Egg is a 0/2 which only serves as a way to preserve your board from clears unless you use other cards to give it attack value. I think it's really fair. I can understand some of the Dearthrattles like Sylvannas being kind of wild, but I don't see the problem with the egg.
Flamewalker is a 2/3 and doesn't work with Implosion, Muster, and Unleash the Hounds.
Karsticles
Member
He's a 2/4 that works with every spell in the game, and fires two bolts each time, too.
I consider them to be about even in strength.
Flamewanker is stupid rng as well, the main difference is that it's fueled by spells and not minions that do their juggle damage AND stay on the board
You won't find many people here who find Tempo Mage fair, it's a braindead casino tempo deck with the highest potential of asspulling undeserved wins
Zoo was fine before the flood of disgusting deathrattle play-and-forget minions, and that won't change unless Blizzard suddenly starts printing playable board clears - in fact it was the strongest deck pre-Naxx by a significant margin
You won't find many people here who find Tempo Mage fair, it's a braindead casino tempo deck with the highest potential of asspulling undeserved wins
Zoo was fine before the flood of disgusting deathrattle play-and-forget minions, and that won't change unless Blizzard suddenly starts printing playable board clears - in fact it was the strongest deck pre-Naxx by a significant margin
Personally it disabled comeback mechanics against zoo and rush while enabling a solid wall later on with argus. There really was no way to punish it aside from silence which tends to muck up decks that aren't rush. Not to mention the fuckery that is power overwhelming. Overall it is just how pissed I have been getting fighting warlocks and paladins all day for the past few weeks. I really hate the current meta.
Knife Juggler has better stat for cost than Flame Waker.
Knife Juggler is a neutral minion, Flamewaker is a class minion.
Flamewaker requires spells which there are far less of in the game than minions. Even Tempo Mage has a lot of minions. Something like Zoo is almost entirely minions which makes it easier to combo Juggler with.
Knife Juggler procs off of Deathrattles or minion procs (like Imp Gand Boss) already in play, Flame Waker has no equivalent.
Flame Waker gets one proc off one spell, Knife Juggler can get multiple procs off of one card (Implosion, UTH etc).
Juggler costs one less mana which makes it easier to combo. Like for example Juggler plus Mirror Image is a 3 mana play vs Flamewaker plus Mirror Image which is 4.
Knife Juggler is a Standard card, Flamewaker is a BRM card which gets rotated out in 2017.
That said Flamewaker is still a very strong card.
Knife Juggler is a neutral minion, Flamewaker is a class minion.
Flamewaker requires spells which there are far less of in the game than minions. Even Tempo Mage has a lot of minions. Something like Zoo is almost entirely minions which makes it easier to combo Juggler with.
Knife Juggler procs off of Deathrattles or minion procs (like Imp Gand Boss) already in play, Flame Waker has no equivalent.
Flame Waker gets one proc off one spell, Knife Juggler can get multiple procs off of one card (Implosion, UTH etc).
Juggler costs one less mana which makes it easier to combo. Like for example Juggler plus Mirror Image is a 3 mana play vs Flamewaker plus Mirror Image which is 4.
Knife Juggler is a Standard card, Flamewaker is a BRM card which gets rotated out in 2017.
That said Flamewaker is still a very strong card.
Yeah it used to be very popular and has recently surfaced again in a couple of tournament decks. Still not very common choice.
He was always there in classic, got a huge popularity boost in Naxx (Belcher), but fell off towards the end of Naxx due to 4/5 bodies becoming less and less effective.
Haha sorry I was thinking about Flame Juggler.
Flamewalker is BS as well, but not to the point of Knife Juggler.
Yup and if it was a neutral Rogues would use it for huge tempo play for example.
But not being in standard also takes the pressure off cards like Flamewaker. You will only have to deal with the card for another year.
There was definitely a Black Knight meta. Druids used to be common with big taunts. Druids even used Black Knight themselves and comboed with Power of the Wild to remove any minion.
I decided to rank up this month after a month off and it wasn't terrible....until about rank 6. Then it was just a constant stream of secret pally and zoo. Remembered why I didn't play last month. This meta can really go die in a fire.
I don't even remember hating face hunter when it was #1 this much. It's just bullshit like MC, juggler + implosion, losing cause I left a 1/1 and they had 4 power overwhelmings (2 from peddlers)...it just takes all the fun out.
There's certainly a chance he makes a comeback in Standard.
I think Black Knight will make a big comeback in Standard. TazDingo slayer.
Karsticles
Member
Maybe Zoo is too strong, but the only taunts that bother me are Deathlord and Sludgebelcher.
I find Flamewaker way harder to deal with than Knife Juggler. He has 4 health instead of 2, so I can't just play a cheap nuke to remove him. He gets two fireballs instead of one, and the deck meta he is a part of lets the player control the board while also dealing all that damage.
I can respect hating the current meta, but at least Zoolock has a few hard counters. I also feel like I have to make a lot of good decisions to consistently win with Zoolock, which isn't something I can say for Druids and MC Paladins. Those are the decks that really frustrate me. I can even deal with freeze mage because I know appropriate use of Silence can often win me games.
Juggler might get multi-procs in some cases, but Flamewaker can get similar effects with some cards, like Arcane Intellect.
I can see that.
I beat my first MC Paladin ever last night, and only because I was able to clear the entire board through Void Caller into Doomguard combined with two Owls.
There has to be some over powered taunt in the game or Ramp Druids have to return for that Black Knight to be a thing again. Maybe if Bolster Warrior becomes a thing (ayy lmao!).
You can play Knife Juggler plus Living Roots for 4 mana that also develops two bodies on the board and pings twice. You can play Knife Juggler plus Razorfen get two juggles and a 2/3 plus 1/1 on board.
Also Druid takes more skill to play than Zoo.
So 6 mana to get off two juggles with the Arcane Intellect offering no board presence by itself. That's not counting the mana of the spell you would have to play from the draw of AI.
You can play Knife Juggler plus Living Roots for 4 mana that also develops two bodies on the board and pings twice. You can play Knife Juggler plus Razorfen get two juggles and a 2/3 plus 1/1 on board.
Also Druid takes more skill to play than Zoo.
WesternHeretic
Member
Fuck both of them.
veryslowhand
Banned
Standard can't come soon enough
Nat Pagle, Leeroy Jenkins, and The Black Knight used to be in every aggro deck. The former two were nerfed to the point of being irrelevant. TBK simply got outpaced by power creep.
Professor Lich
Member
That'll be one thing I'll miss for sure. Running Black Knight in Mech decks for that extra removal with Rusty Horn.
Pat Nagle, RNGesus incarnated. I do wonder if they're going to revisit that card in a more consistent way like they did with Tinkmaster > Keeper, same result on average less RNG, 1hp extra 1 extra cost and class exclusive(though paladins were using it the most along with druids if memory serves me right).
I thought Blizzard "Fixed" the backlog a few months ago.
Nat pagle was a staple before he got nerfed to oblivion. He won/lost games.
Hmm, wasn't he in literally every competitive deck before his nerf? I mean I remember basically every match boiling down to a fishing contest back then.
Because most of the decks were control decks, control decks or midrange decks. Pagle doesn't do much for aggro decks though it was still usable.
In the current meta, Pagle wouldn't even be that good. But it's still very good that the card was nerfed. Back then Blizzard was more proactive in nerfing the swingy RNG cards only to just spit in the face of that and put out GvG.
Also Pagle and Tinkmaster were at one point about to be banned by the competitive community until Blizzard stepped in. That's certainly one way to get Blizzard's attention.
Yeah true. I still hope Blizzard makes a less powerful version of the card but powerful enough that aggro decks have to answer it.
Like this
I really want scry in the game
Pagle was ubiquitous in every deck. There were some exotic/expensive decks that didn't use him, like Control Warrior and Miracle Rogue, and then there was Zoo once Reynad popularized it. Other than that, if you had Pagle you ran him and you mulliganed like crazy for him.
I've got Leeroy and Pagle too, so hopefully standard will go back in time and I'll be sorted now.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Leeroy jenkins is not irrelevant. Also, there was never a point where TBK was in every aggro deck. There was a point where TBK was in many decks due to how good it was against druid, but even then druids got smart and just used cat form to play around it. I like TBK and I wouldn't mind using it. It's probably really good against dragon priest.
That card would never work because you can't do anything at the end of your turn.
Maybe if it occurred when you attack.
That card would never work because you can't do anything at the end of your turn.
Maybe if it occurred when you attack.
Karsticles
Member
I would like the "Ranged" attribute in the game. Does not take damage when attacking.
The Firewaker isn't too different. If you drop a secret that produces a 3/4 or stronger, like Duplicate, then you're basically getting 2 damage + the same creature value in the Knife Juggler scenario. I think they are roughly equivalent in power, personally.
Druid doesn't take more skill than Zoo, lol. You just buy time until you get the combo and then GG.
The Firewaker isn't too different. If you drop a secret that produces a 3/4 or stronger, like Duplicate, then you're basically getting 2 damage + the same creature value in the Knife Juggler scenario. I think they are roughly equivalent in power, personally.
How was Pagle different in the past?
I wish I could make a deck around that Fel Cannon.