So one card for playing against every deck, and one for playing against Priest and Paladin only?
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
So one card for playing against every deck, and one for playing against Priest and Paladin only?
andregnreis
Member
US :/
I think the only time I ever truly hated secrets was while running Ramp Druid for awhile (and old combo Druid to some extent) while mech mage with mirror entity was one of the most popular decks. Mage getting a free secret and having Belcher, Druid of the Claw, Ancient of War, Sylvannas in hand was absolutely a pain in the ass. typically the best play was charge DoC and essentially lose my turn.
I don't play Druid anymore, but they have a lot more ways to play around Mirror Entity now. Tempo mage is still a big pain in the ass for Druid, though and secrets don't help.
I've also had situations against Hunter where they get running Freeze Traps with Bow other removal and are able to basically keep you locked down until Turn 6 and by then it is too late.
All that said, I agree with the others and only truly believe that secrets with mad scientist are overpowered. If played from hand you have to look at them as a 1 for 1 card advantage and potentially a tempo gain or game winning play (with Ice Block) that could happen with any card played at the right time.
I don't play Druid anymore, but they have a lot more ways to play around Mirror Entity now. Tempo mage is still a big pain in the ass for Druid, though and secrets don't help.
I've also had situations against Hunter where they get running Freeze Traps with Bow other removal and are able to basically keep you locked down until Turn 6 and by then it is too late.
All that said, I agree with the others and only truly believe that secrets with mad scientist are overpowered. If played from hand you have to look at them as a 1 for 1 card advantage and potentially a tempo gain or game winning play (with Ice Block) that could happen with any card played at the right time.
toddhunter
Member
Best nerf is to make it a pirate rather than a beast.
It doesn't make sense, but that fits in perfectly with the pirate cards.
Karsticles
Member
4/9 classes use secrets. How many use buffs depends on how good Blizzard makes buffs in the next expansion. ;-)
irfaanator
Banned
i wish there was a card that removed silence. why can't you silence the silence
Karsticles
Member
Dispel could un-silence, too! :-D
Reincarnate?
The game was clearly trying to tell me something with double stacked Paladin quests, so I gave in once more to Secret Pally...
Immediately hit a renolock that healed for 21 and got crushed back down to 10hp right after thanks to my double challenger draws.
This has to be the most boring deck to pilot.
Immediately hit a renolock that healed for 21 and got crushed back down to 10hp right after thanks to my double challenger draws.
This has to be the most boring deck to pilot.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Doesn't work if a buffed card got silenced(Frostwolf Warlord, etc).
BananasWithGuns
Member
Gave me an idea.
where's the overload?
Gave me an idea.
A shaman card, that appears to have a gnome or dwarf druid on it, with no overload? I dont know bro. The irony of the situation is that this card isn't even good in shaman. What class cards would really benefit from this? Al Akir? Earth Elemental? Unbound elemental? Not trying to be a negative nelly because should be a card like this, but maybe for druid or priest.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Just took the art from the same Cleanse Spirit card in the Wow TCG, which is a Shaman ability I believe so that's why I went that direction (plus I have Shaman bias). I'm sure it could work in most classes though, just not Paladin lol.
As far as usability. Anything that might draw a silence like Tunnel Trogg, Mana Tide Totem, Flametongue Totem, Fireguard Destroyer, Earth Elemental, Sylvanas, anything with Ancestral Spirit played on it. I think it's fairly open ended. Even removing stuff like an Aldor Peacekeeper effect on a Fire Elemental or something.
Either way, just something I cobbled together real quick.
Professor Lich
Member
Speaking of cobbled together cards, I had another idea for a Warlock card, thinking about what else they could sacrifice other than Health, Mana, and Cards. Had an idea where you could sacrifice a turn for a really strong minion and now I have an idea for trading spaces on the board for a strong minion;
Enveloping Voidmass -- 3 Mana -- 2/2
Battlecry: For every two empty spaces on the board, gain +1/+1 and fill those spaces.
Basically you can play a 5/5 on turn three but you can't play anything else until it dies or gets silenced.
Enveloping Voidmass -- 3 Mana -- 2/2
Battlecry: For every two empty spaces on the board, gain +1/+1 and fill those spaces.
Basically you can play a 5/5 on turn three but you can't play anything else until it dies or gets silenced.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Full Retard Scientist
2 mana, 2/2
Battlecry:
Summon a mad scientist and kill full retard scientist.
Blizzard said there would not be duplicated cards in new sets. So I devised an evil plan for them to keep our favorite scientist around a bit longer.
2 mana, 2/2
Battlecry:
Summon a mad scientist and kill full retard scientist.
Blizzard said there would not be duplicated cards in new sets. So I devised an evil plan for them to keep our favorite scientist around a bit longer.
Professor Lich
Member
Man, you guys shouldn't let your salt get in the way of your creativity!
Thematically I can definitely imagine it with any of the healing classes, but definitely not the damage dealing class. I had no idea that was from the TCG though. Probably ranks up there with a number of blizzards mistaken art cards like "Malganis" and "Malygos"
As I said, I think the card / ability has merit, but I had a good look at all of the shaman cards and I just don't think the value is there. Thats partially based on the current tempo-oriented meta though. Maybe in standard things will slow down and things will become so value oriented that the extra ticks from flametongue or mana tide really do make a difference. Maybe my one concern would be with the fact that currently there are only two (not inlcuding the demon only) neutral silence cards, so if you gave an earth elemental one of these plus ancestral spirit, plus ancestral healing it would effectively become unkillable (minus BGH). The same applies to Al' Akir. Im not sure if there is middle ground, but Blizzard will perhaps one day try to find it.
Edit: Also, how come no one is talking about Forsen's BRAIN POWER. This shit is the new Haru Yu Koi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R8aSKwTEMg&ab_channel=NihonMusicNetwork
bronkonagurski
Member
I had a 115 attack Gahzrilla to win a brawl earlier today. I about died laughing. I never get lucky enough to see that kind of craziness pan out in my favor.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I just lost to a total idiot in arena because he got INSANELY lucky.
He kills my Mounted Raptor and out pops Zombie Chow, which puts him out of lethal range. Then when he has lethal on the board next turn, HE PLAYS SPELLSLINGER FOR NO REASON which gives me Convert when he has the 5/3 joust charge. Of course, the joust ties and I lose.
FUCK THIS GAME.
He kills my Mounted Raptor and out pops Zombie Chow, which puts him out of lethal range. Then when he has lethal on the board next turn, HE PLAYS SPELLSLINGER FOR NO REASON which gives me Convert when he has the 5/3 joust charge. Of course, the joust ties and I lose.
FUCK THIS GAME.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I am more than okay with seeing mad scientist cycled out of standard.
I want play arena but I don't want GVG pack drop 
Druid guy will still won looking to the board
"Well played" gonna be said
It can always be worse.
(not mine, from reddit)
Druid guy will still won looking to the board
"Well played" gonna be said
Professor Lich
Member
For sure, I think Standard will be great for the game overall, I won't deny that there's some stupid stuff in the game right now. I just wish people used their... passion(?) in a more constructive way!
irfaanator
Banned
I want play arena but I don't want GVG pack drop
Druid guy will still won looking to the board
"Well played" gonna be said
he said he lost
I want play arena but I don't want GVG pack drop
Pretty sure it only drops TGT? At least it only ever did for my F2P account before I said fuck arena.
The pack can be from any set. It is random.
I must've gotten the craziest RNG ever then. I did at least 5 arena runs and got only TGT packs.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Once the format changes, arena awards only standard current sets. I'm looking forward to that.
I haven't really been into arena since classic anyway.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Well TGT packs do have a boosted rate of appearance over the other packs.
Joust should just die with TGT. The design is awful.
Karsticles
Member
If anyone disagrees, made your name known so you can be harmed.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Yeah, no joust please. Pretty much the only way they make joust cards playable are to make them decent when they miss and broken as shit when they hit. Otherwise it's not worth the risk.
I'll definitely take more inspire and discover though.
I'll definitely take more inspire and discover though.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I like the joust design. They just have to get the balance around joust right. Less focus on the joust upside is key. For example, king's elekk is a nice joust card. It is a beast, decent stats, and the joust is good but not win/loss defining.
I also think tuskar jouster, and gadgetzan jouster are well designed cards. But I prefer to see cheap joust cards so the reveal in itself is solid.
If I would change anything about joust itself, is that joust should not reveal the cards to your opponent. Only to the person who played the joust.
I also think tuskar jouster, and gadgetzan jouster are well designed cards. But I prefer to see cheap joust cards so the reveal in itself is solid.
If I would change anything about joust itself, is that joust should not reveal the cards to your opponent. Only to the person who played the joust.
Karsticles
Member
Discover has become my favorite mechanic, because it allows you to tech on the fly. I went with Stealth Imp against this Priest because I knew it would buff my zoo minions out of Holy Nova and Light Bomb range. Turns out the guy didn't even have Holy Nova, just Light Bomb, and no other AoE, so that Stealth Imp was on the board from turn 3 all the way to me only having 2 cards left in my deck. He never left the board, and he made a huge difference over those 20-some turns.
Similarly, in that same match a Priest player used a Deathlord, and getting a Power Overwhelming to blow him up was extremely helpful (summoned a Doomguard that was promptly Power Word: Deathed; fuck priests).
Random is bad.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You're playing a card game. There is always going to be random cards. And some random is good. Some random is bad. Joust can be good. Can be.
Karsticles
Member
In any situation where Joust could be an ability, it would be better to create the card without Joust. It doesn't add anything to the game.
Discover is an example of random that is good. You get 3 cards to choose from, and you have a skillful influence on the outcome.
toddhunter
Member
Joust did die with TGT.
CelticKnight
Member
Can't wait for Standard to come out, playing is starting to be a chore. The "aggro" Brawls aren't helping to break up the monotony.
Stay classy, guys...
Stay classy, guys...
There are just so many issues with Joust.
*The whole design hinges on the fact that you have a heavier deck than normal. Except that it will never actually work because even in the heaviest decks you need some low cost utility minions. In addition, cards like Dr Balanced ensure that even rush heavy decks have some late game hitters to close out games. Maybe this type of meta will switch but if anything if the meta slows down from how it is now then that actually makes Joust even WORSE.
*Cards like Gadgetan Auctioneer work against other Joust cards. You play Tuskar Jouster and Gadgetan in same deck then you run the risk of getting Gadgetan while playing Tuskar Jouster. Talk about anti synergy.
*The Joust bonus is attached to game winning attributes rather than having marginal upgrades. There's a HUGE difference between Master Jouster getting Divine Shield AND Taunt versus coming down as a Booty Bay tier card. The Tuskar Jouster heal is substantial and something that you absolutely cannot afford to whiff when faced against an aggressive deck because that's where you need that bonus the most.
*Then there are cards like Warhorse Trainer which makes you go "what the hell was Blizzard thinking with this card?" Jousts can't work in aggressive decks so having a minion gain charge as a Joust effect makes very little sense. Charge can work if the stat distribution is right but that's a 5/3 for 4 mana.... awful stats for a card meant to be in a slow deck. Another card that runs counter to what Joust is supposed to do.
*The whole issue of ties resulting in a loss puts the Joust in favor of the opponent rather than person who played it. Assuming both decks are equivalent... the person playing the Joust card actually has only around a 40% chance to win! At the bare minimum the Joust mechanic should've been designed to at least win ties.
*The random range is too high. Joust should pick one lowest cost + one highest cost minion from both decks then average out the cost to decide winner. After that Joust, those set of cards can't be used again and it goes to the next lowest/highest cards until the values flip and the cycle repeats.
*The way Joust works when there are no minions in either decks. If both decks don't have a minion then the Joust card should win by default. Having entire card mechanics be punished because of a late game state (which these decks are designed to do anyway) is really bad.
*Animation takes too long still.
*The whole issue of the cards being unveiled to both player. This should be something that only the player who Jousted sees. It would be cool to have Jousting at least be used as a scouting tool.
*Generally speaking a Joust card is awful when it loses and insane when it wins. For Joust cards to be playable the card has to be decent/slightly below average when it loses and well above average when it wins. An example would be for a Warhorse Trainer: It's a 4 mana 4/2 with Charge. Basically a Huffer that costs 4 mana instead of 3. If you win the Joust it gets turned into a 5/3 minion (so gaining +1/+1). This way the card could be used in face decks to play aggro and they can gamble on the Joust even though they will usually lose anyway. Control decks on the other hand can also use this as a board control tool if they want and can get the added stats to maybe have the card stick around after killing a smaller minion. Another example would be Tuskar Jouster healing 3-4 HP by default and healing 8 if it wins the Joust.
*The whole design hinges on the fact that you have a heavier deck than normal. Except that it will never actually work because even in the heaviest decks you need some low cost utility minions. In addition, cards like Dr Balanced ensure that even rush heavy decks have some late game hitters to close out games. Maybe this type of meta will switch but if anything if the meta slows down from how it is now then that actually makes Joust even WORSE.
*Cards like Gadgetan Auctioneer work against other Joust cards. You play Tuskar Jouster and Gadgetan in same deck then you run the risk of getting Gadgetan while playing Tuskar Jouster. Talk about anti synergy.
*The Joust bonus is attached to game winning attributes rather than having marginal upgrades. There's a HUGE difference between Master Jouster getting Divine Shield AND Taunt versus coming down as a Booty Bay tier card. The Tuskar Jouster heal is substantial and something that you absolutely cannot afford to whiff when faced against an aggressive deck because that's where you need that bonus the most.
*Then there are cards like Warhorse Trainer which makes you go "what the hell was Blizzard thinking with this card?" Jousts can't work in aggressive decks so having a minion gain charge as a Joust effect makes very little sense. Charge can work if the stat distribution is right but that's a 5/3 for 4 mana.... awful stats for a card meant to be in a slow deck. Another card that runs counter to what Joust is supposed to do.
*The whole issue of ties resulting in a loss puts the Joust in favor of the opponent rather than person who played it. Assuming both decks are equivalent... the person playing the Joust card actually has only around a 40% chance to win! At the bare minimum the Joust mechanic should've been designed to at least win ties.
*The random range is too high. Joust should pick one lowest cost + one highest cost minion from both decks then average out the cost to decide winner. After that Joust, those set of cards can't be used again and it goes to the next lowest/highest cards until the values flip and the cycle repeats.
*The way Joust works when there are no minions in either decks. If both decks don't have a minion then the Joust card should win by default. Having entire card mechanics be punished because of a late game state (which these decks are designed to do anyway) is really bad.
*Animation takes too long still.
*The whole issue of the cards being unveiled to both player. This should be something that only the player who Jousted sees. It would be cool to have Jousting at least be used as a scouting tool.
*Generally speaking a Joust card is awful when it loses and insane when it wins. For Joust cards to be playable the card has to be decent/slightly below average when it loses and well above average when it wins. An example would be for a Warhorse Trainer: It's a 4 mana 4/2 with Charge. Basically a Huffer that costs 4 mana instead of 3. If you win the Joust it gets turned into a 5/3 minion (so gaining +1/+1). This way the card could be used in face decks to play aggro and they can gamble on the Joust even though they will usually lose anyway. Control decks on the other hand can also use this as a board control tool if they want and can get the added stats to maybe have the card stick around after killing a smaller minion. Another example would be Tuskar Jouster healing 3-4 HP by default and healing 8 if it wins the Joust.
BananasWithGuns
Member
If Blizzard makes more joust cards they'll need to be on the level of King's Elekk, Tuskarr Jouster and Healing Wave to even be somewhat relevant. Healing Wave isn't even that good actually, it's more a testament to how awful Shaman's healing options are.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Tuskarr Jouster sees zero play.
Haunted
Member
0 mana spell "restore a card's original card text"
fixed
/Ben Brode