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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt

F

Fireblend

Banned
I think Mill is an interesting archetype, I have never played one (because I don't have the cards) but I'd definitely give it a shot. I don't feel like it's super powerful either; sure they don't fight for the board, but you can still try to outrun them. I'd say I have bigger issues with freeze Mage because what that does is nullify the board completely and make its contents irrelevant, but mill rogues' don't really have that. Their lack of focus on board control can definitely bite them in the ass.

Whenever I realize I'm up against a mill deck I always feel like rooting for them, haha. It's so unconventional and uncommon, and still such a crapshoot in terms of whether it will succeed or not (I don't think I have a particularly unfavorable win rate against them), I hope they're having a good play session :p
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
mill is frustrating to play against, but if I lose I just remember that the guy playing mill probably lost like 10 in a row before he won one
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
My hatred for fatigue decks is well documented. I'd rather play a face deck than a fatigue deck.
 
T

Tarazet

Member
miladesn said:
Zoo shaman zoo zoo tempo shaman mage Zoo Zoo Zoo tempo mage, state of EU ladder LOL. I'm playing druid actually and winning all of them... then lose my win streak to effing face warrior....
Click to expand...

That's what Garrosh does best.. kick the crap out of Malfurion.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
Apathy said:
OK? It's not the decks I play or want to play. I don't care if aggro face beat mill rogues.

My frustration is not about the milling, it's the fact that the fatigue mechanic is exploited to the point where the person getting milled isn't even playing the miller. They sit there watching the fatigue go up and are unable to play. I would be fine if someone wants to mill my deck and get me to hold 10 cards and nothing else but at least give me a chance to play out those 10 cards in my hand and see if I can even win. The game isn't being decided on the board, it's being decided by the rogue and the fatigue. If the rogue was not able to manipulate the fatigue when it's not on my go, it would fix a problem, and they would be forced to at least play it out

btw, I didn't mean that to come out sounding rude.
Click to expand...

that's no different than losing to a warlock that uses PO PO + charge + faceless. mill doesn't come out of nowhere, you know mill is coming by turn 2 or 3 and can easily avoid it since mill decks don't win more than they lose. do you want every deck to be boring strong minions or something? different playstyles are good to have if they aren't OP as hell like secret pally
 
A

Apathy

Member
SonicXtreme said:
that's no different than losing to a warlock that uses PO PO + charge + faceless. mill doesn't come out of nowhere, you know mill is coming by turn 2 or 3 and can easily avoid it since mill decks don't win more than they lose. do you want every deck to be boring strong minions or something? different playstyles are good to have if they aren't OP as hell like secret pally
Click to expand...

Of course there is a difference between a mill deck vs any other deck, even a warlock using po po charge faceless. With any other deck you play out the game and deny your opponent cards on the board and they have to deal with your cards on the board as well.

Let say I have 5 taunts on the board, well the warlock is going to have to deal with them if he wants to one turn kill me with his po po combo. With a mill rogue specifically, there's a finite amount of mana I can spend every turn, my cards have varying amounts of cost. Cards also need a turn to be able to attack. Even if I put down however many cards that may fit that finite number of mana, if they get vanished back to me now I would have to replay them making me unable to use mana to play anything else and/or destroying some or overdrawing. Heck they don't ever get time to deny or set up blocks for my opponents hand as coldlights have the battlecry.

Like I said, mill should exist as a viable idea, make your opponent lose cards, cool. But they don't play vs me, they rather play vs the fatigue design that allows them to over drawn me and then even on their turn cause the fatigue to extend to a point where I die. There's nothing the defending player can do. If they took away fatigue on your opponents turn and only allowed fatigue to go up on your turn, it can solve the issue. At least let people play out the 10 cards I have in my hand and see if I can get the win vs have me sit around watching my opponent not even go face but just keep over fatigueing me
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
I just played the weirdest mage it was like an half ass echo mage fuse with an half ass freeze mage. Man... a lot of weird shit at the start of the season. Thankfully almost 5 so I can call it quits for the month. Druid so easy! (if you can count).
 
P

Pooya

Member
tempostorm has patron at #2 now above secret paly, it's really not consistent enough to be that high. You can easily lose to even zoo and secret paly actually..
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
miladesn said:
tempostorm has patron at #2 now above secret paly, it's really not consistent enough to be that high. You can easily lose to even zoo and secret paly actually..
Click to expand...
It's just cyclical non sense at this point.

Cycle #1: Secret Paladin dominates ladder. Freeze Mage goes up to tier 1 to counter.

Cycle #2: Druid shoots up to #1 because it dominates Freeze Mage.

Cycle #3: Zoolock goes up to tier 1 to counter Druids. Meta increases in tempo/zoo like state.

Cycle #4 or Cycle#1-2: Either we go back to Freeze Mage or Grim Patron deck to counter the zoo/tempo decks.

Cycle#5 : People remember that Control Warrior exists and they counter both Grim Patron and Freeze Mage.

Cycle#6 : Then people see a few CWs on ladder, pull out the Secret Paladins and Druids to put the meta where it rightfully belongs.


Any list that doesn't have Secret Paladin and Druid in #1 and #2 slots should be ignored completely.

Citing stuff like "but tournament though" doesn't really give you an idea of the real best decks. For one the formats make it possible to target specific deck or to meta play what you know. In addition, you have ban formats and other types of formats. Sure, Grim Patron is a tier 1 deck when you expect that everyone you face is playing the same 3 decks in tournament but then you get your Warrior banned and you get overrun by Secret Paladin, Druid and Freeze Mage. Or they expect you to bring Grim Patron and just farm you with Handlock, Priest and Control Warrior.

In tournament where winner gets to keep using whatever deck hasn't lost yet, everyone will bring in Secret Paladin and Druid. Why? Because in this format the best deck is rewarded the most. You can't really target farm decks or ban out classes... you have to bring decks that do well against the majority of the field. There's a big reason why this tournament is getting less and less common... it crushes deck variety in tournaments when you just bring the best stuff.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
miladesn said:
tempostorm has patron at #2 now above secret paly, it's really not consistent enough to be that high. You can easily lose to even zoo and secret paly actually..
Click to expand...

Just like once upon a time they had aggro Shaman above Secret Pally....

The meta is completely stagnant at the top, but saying that over and over doesn't exactly bring website hits
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
miladesn said:
tempostorm has patron at #2 now above secret paly, it's really not consistent enough to be that high. You can easily lose to even zoo and secret paly actually..
Click to expand...

IMO Tempostorm's meta snapshots are effectively worthless. They use no empirical data, its just a bunch of people disusing their opinions. I would likely be able to take them a bit more seriously if they only did it once a month, but that doesn't bring in the ad revenue.
 
G

greepoman

Member
I swear there's some code in the game where if a mage needs 2 fireballs to kill me on turn 8 it'll give it to them. Scientifically proven with my anecdotal evidence.

I also want to complain about knife juggler + implosion. I get Reynad levels of salty when I see it.
 
C

CelticKnight

Member
Drkirby said:
IMO Tempostorm's meta snapshots are effectively worthless. They use no empirical data, its just a bunch of people disusing their opinions. I would likely be able to take them a bit more seriously if they only did it once a month, but that doesn't bring in the ad revenue.
Click to expand...

To be fair, they basically admitted last time that they've given up until Standard hits...

If you are looking for a challenging deck to climb the ladder this week, Secret Paladin is the deck for you. Even the pros struggle to play this deck optimally, curving out turns one through six is a task that takes years of practice to accomplish. The only thing holding this deck back is its lack of overpowered minions, Shielded Minibot is a 2/2, which ultimately does less damage per turn than Bloodfen Raptor, yet somehow the card is staple in the deck. This is then followed up by your low impact minions such as Piloted Shredder and Sludge Belcher. And finally curving out into your 6 drop Mysterious Balancer, which is a terrible card as it forces you to play Paladin Secrets in your deck. All in all, the decks lack in strength and requires you to have a certain amount of skill to climb the ladder.
Click to expand...

They're as bored shitless as the rest of us are. Maybe they'll put more effort in when things change.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Yeah they've given up but a few weeks ago they also said they wouldn't be doing any more lists until the format change. But I guess no lists isn't good for revenue after all.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
If you are looking for a challenging deck to climb the ladder this week, Secret Paladin is the deck for you. Even the pros struggle to play this deck optimally, curving out turns one through six is a task that takes years of practice to accomplish. The only thing holding this deck back is its lack of overpowered minions, Shielded Minibot is a 2/2, which ultimately does less damage per turn than Bloodfen Raptor, yet somehow the card is staple in the deck. This is then followed up by your low impact minions such as Piloted Shredder and Sludge Belcher. And finally curving out into your 6 drop Mysterious Balancer, which is a terrible card as it forces you to play Paladin Secrets in your deck. All in all, the decks lack in strength and requires you to have a certain amount of skill to climb the ladder
Click to expand...

Ayyy LMAO!

Alright props to Tempostorm for typing that up. This is almost meme worthy.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Had an 8 win arena run yesterday that I some how feel I did worse on than when I only win like 5 in Arena. Sucks. LoL
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
Agh, I've been trying to ramp up my gold production by doing some aggressive mulligans, and I haven't seen a single 60-gold quest in like a week. It's like the game knows I want gold. x_x
 
E

embalm

Member
So how is everyone doing in Arena? I feel like the competition has eased up a little bit.

Since LoE I've been averaging around 4 wins. The past four arena runs have been 8, 10, 7, and 7 wins. Two of those were terrible decks that I predicted to go 5 wins at most.

Does anyone else feel like Arena has been a little easier the past 2 weeks?
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
I'm afraid of arena atm. I'm so focused on gathering gold for the expansion right now I'd rather play Arena after the expansion has released so I don't potentially lose any gold. I don't trust myself to get more than 6 wins :p

In other news, if there were ever any doubts about the whisper of the gods thing...

hsinvit2-830x413.png

hsinvit1.jpg
Click to expand...

From http://blizzheart.com/en/hearthstone/the-presentation-of-the-next-expansion-confirmed/
 
S

Shiver

Member
embalm said:
So how is everyone doing in Arena? I feel like the competition has eased up a little bit.
Click to expand...

Extremely well. Currently averaging over 8 wins during LOE. Over my last six runs it's over 10 wins per run (62 wins total).

However, I stay away from the weaker classes. And I've been pretty lucky with my drafts.
 
F

fertygo

Member
embalm said:
So how is everyone doing in Arena? I feel like the competition has eased up a little bit.

Since LoE I've been averaging around 4 wins. The past four arena runs have been 8, 10, 7, and 7 wins. Two of those were terrible decks that I predicted to go 5 wins at most.

Does anyone else feel like Arena has been a little easier the past 2 weeks?
Click to expand...

lol, only won 5 game at last 3 visits
 
L

Levi

Banned
embalm said:
So how is everyone doing in Arena? I feel like the competition has eased up a little bit.
Click to expand...

Over the last month I hit 9 wins once, and 7 wins twice, and 6 wins twice. Only twice have I been fewer than 3 out of probably about 20 runs -- a 2-3 Druid and an 0-3 Rogue.

I do best with Mage, followed by Pally (ugh) and Druid. I'm awful with Rogue and okay with Lock. Have managed to avoid picking Hunter, Shaman and Warrior.
 
V

V-Faction

Member
Fireblend said:
In other news, if there were ever any doubts about the whisper of the gods thing...



From http://blizzheart.com/en/hearthstone/the-presentation-of-the-next-expansion-confirmed/
Click to expand...

If you are looking for a challenging deck to climb the ladder this week (your courage will fail you), Secret Paladin is the deck for you. Even the pros (your friends will abandon you) struggle to play this deck optimally, curving out turns one through six is a task that takes years of practice to accomplish (death is close). The only thing holding this deck back is its lack of overpowered minions (give in to your fear), Shielded Minibot is a 2/2, which ultimately does less damage per turn than Bloodfen Raptor (your heart will explode), yet somehow the card is staple in the deck (you are a pawn of forces unseen). This is then followed up by your low impact minions such as Piloted Shredder and Sludge Belcher (it was your fault). And finally curving out into your 6 drop Mysterious Balancer (MADNESS WILL CONSUME YOU), which is a terrible card as it forces you to play Paladin Secrets in your deck (you will be alone in the end). All in all, the decks lack in strength and requires you to have a certain amount of skill to climb the ladder (Y'knath k'th'rygg k'yi mrr'ungha gr'mula).
 
E

embalm

Member
Pumped for the details on Friday. I hope it has a fast turn around similar to the LoE release. New expansion announcements and releases are the best.

Glad to see that others are having success in the arena, but I was secretly hoping I had ascended to a new skill level.
 
L

Levi

Banned
embalm said:
Pumped for the details on Friday. I hope it has a fast turn around similar to the LoE release. New expansion announcements and releases are the best.

Glad to see that others are having success in the arena, but I was secretly hoping I had ascended to a new skill level.
Click to expand...

Not everyone can get 4+ wins. Every win is someone else's loss. Sure, when you you're 0-1 and you face a Rogue who coins hero power into face on turn one, and then hero powers into face again on turn two (wasting a charge in the process), it doesn't take a lot of skill to win that game. But once you're past 3 or so wins those kinds of games disappear.

I'm comfortable with where I'm at. I'll never get 12 wins unless I get an overpowered draft, which if I play enough will probably happen sooner or later. I'm averaging more than 3 wins which means Arena isn't a waste of gold, which is where I wanted to be.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
The Lamonster said:
I read somewhere that when Standard mode comes out, you won't be able to purchase Naxx or buy GvG packs anymore. Is that true?
Click to expand...

It's true. You will be locked out of Naxx content unless you own at least one wing, and you won't be able to get GvG cards through packs, only by crafting them.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
The Lamonster said:
What's the point of that? Are any other adventures/expansions affected?
Click to expand...

Nope. The point is people won't be able to purchase content that isn't part of Standard because Blizzard wants to push that instead of wild.

In the future, as new expansions/adventures are rotated out, they'll probably be removed from the shop as well.
 
A

Apathy

Member
The Lamonster said:
What's the point of that? Are any other adventures/expansions affected?
Click to expand...

Well they came to the realization that people might not need every single card from the adventure for wild, and the cards they might need they can craft. They want to make standard the default and tell players get you don't need these cards to do standard.
 
S

Sande

Member
Apathy said:
Of course there is a difference between a mill deck vs any other deck, even a warlock using po po charge faceless. With any other deck you play out the game and deny your opponent cards on the board and they have to deal with your cards on the board as well.

Let say I have 5 taunts on the board, well the warlock is going to have to deal with them if he wants to one turn kill me with his po po combo. With a mill rogue specifically, there's a finite amount of mana I can spend every turn, my cards have varying amounts of cost. Cards also need a turn to be able to attack. Even if I put down however many cards that may fit that finite number of mana, if they get vanished back to me now I would have to replay them making me unable to use mana to play anything else and/or destroying some or overdrawing. Heck they don't ever get time to deny or set up blocks for my opponents hand as coldlights have the battlecry.

Like I said, mill should exist as a viable idea, make your opponent lose cards, cool. But they don't play vs me, they rather play vs the fatigue design that allows them to over drawn me and then even on their turn cause the fatigue to extend to a point where I die. There's nothing the defending player can do. If they took away fatigue on your opponents turn and only allowed fatigue to go up on your turn, it can solve the issue. At least let people play out the 10 cards I have in my hand and see if I can get the win vs have me sit around watching my opponent not even go face but just keep over fatigueing me
Click to expand...
This reads very strongly as "faced mill rogue with a perfect draw a couple of times, now think the whole archetype is broken". I pretty much couldn't disagree more about everything you typed. If you seriously think 2 vanishes means you can't do anything, then I don't know what to say.
 
O

Owzers

Member
i play far too reckless sometimes. I go all in and if they have the perfect answer i lose. I made it past reno easily but then full pressed as demon zoo, they had twisting nether.
 
S

Super Nothing

Member
Apathy said:
Well they came to the realization that people might not need every single card from the adventure for wild, and the cards they might need they can craft. They want to make standard the default and tell players get you don't need these cards to do standard.
Click to expand...

It still seems like a bad idea to me. They should leave the old adventures and card packs up for sale, just put them under a separate tab in the market. Put everything available in Standard on one tab and everything else in a separate tab and clearly label them as "Wild only" so that people don't accidentally buy cards that they can't use. Then people won't be locked out of the single player content and collectors can go for a complete set of all cards by buying the packs that they need the most. It seems like Blizzard is willing to completely cut their old content in order to keep the client as simple as possible, but this is ass backwards to me. The game shouldn't be constrained by the client's old UI, the client's UI should evolve along with the game.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
Sande said:
This reads very strongly as "faced mill rogue with a perfect draw a couple of times, now think the whole archetype is broken". I pretty much couldn't disagree more about everything you typed. If you seriously think 2 vanishes means you can't do anything, then I don't know what to say.
Click to expand...

This applies to pretty much every deck complained about in this thread. I've eyerolled so many times at the posts in here but whatever it's just inexperienced players who are salty.
 
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