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[Pooya]

Most of every set is trash, you will be seeing a lot more awful card reveals than good card reveals.

This one might not be even bad, it's bad compared with muster but that's irrelevant. If paladin gets a new recruit buff too you will have to play this in standard. There is probably a darker quartermaster too with different stats/cost.

What I don't understand is why they picked all these boring cards for the very beginning of reveals. You want to show some exciting cards. C'Thun and its mechanic look cool and new at least. Stuff like this are what you give to some streamer to reveal, not on winter championship stream.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

My point from yesterday stands: what does it say about the rest of the cards that they chose to show these cards first? Surely you want to show some of your cooler cards so people get hyped about seeing more.

The latest card just makes it seem like they want to replace the cards that are going to get rotated out instead of introducing new and original ideas.

If they wanted to show more boring cards first then whatever I guess.

 

[Apathy]

Most of every set is trash, you will be seeing a lot more awful card reveals than good card reveals.

This one might not be even bad, it's bad compared with muster but that's irrelevant. If paladin gets a new recruit buff too you will have to play this in standard. There is probably a darker quartermaster too with different stats/cost.

What I don't understand is why they picked all these boring cards for the very beginning of reveals. You want to show some exciting cards. C'Thun and its mechanic look cool and new at least. Stuff like this are what you give to some streamer to reveal, not on winter championship stream.

Maybe they just want to lower expectations with the meh cards

 

[Pooya]

TGT was the same, every card reveal was "good for arena". They showed some stuff at the first reveal like totem golem, Saraad and others that looked cool. Then it was a full month of mostly really really boring cards. There was the Justicar reveal in between that was interesting and people liked Varian reveal too. All the other better cards were revealed on the last day. I'm not sure why they do this.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm guessing they want to raise hype at the end of the process, but I do think leading with a bit more interest early makes sense.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

TGT was the same, every card reveal was "good for arena". They showed some stuff at the first reveal like totem golem, Saraad and others that looked cool. Then it was a full month of mostly really really boring cards. There was the Justicar reveal in between that was interesting and people liked Varian reveal too. All the other better cards were revealed on the last day. I'm not sure why they do this.

so OGs confirmed to be as bad as TGT?

 

[Drkirby]

so OGs confirmed to be as bad as TGT?

Well, without Naxx and GvG, that may actually be fine. Unless Classic cards completely dominate.

 

[Emerson]

You guys are aware it's a common card right? How good do you want it to be?

It's pretty typical for the earliest card reveals for a new TCG set to not be the best stuff. Magic doesn't typically spoil its planeswalkers in the first week of spoiler season.

The real problem is how long this spoiler season is going to be, and how stretched out the reveals will be. If this wasn't the only card revealed, the reaction would likely be less negative.

 

[Sheroking]

so OGs confirmed to be as bad as TGT?

TGT was rough because those cards were running up against insane GvG cards.

Boneguard Lieutenant, Flame Juggler, Argent Horserider, Silver Hand Regent, Evil Heckler, Refreshment Vendor, Kvaldir Raider, Pit Fighter, Saboteur, Garrison Commander, Kodorider and like half the neutral legendaries are all going to be FAR more playable in constructed than they are now for the simple reason that they don't have to compete with bullshit like Piloted Shredder.

So if The Old Gods is only about as good as TGT, that's fine.

 

[Fireblend]

I don't get the negativity around the new cards. People complain about how overpowered the Naxx and GvG cards are and then are disappointed when less powerful cards are shown. What happened to making TGT cards more appealing by lowering the power level of expansion cards in standard? We don't even know about potential synergies with the card yet. Does not compute.

Great game from Chessdude btw.

 

[Pooya]

so OGs confirmed to be as bad as TGT?

I hope the power level is similar overall, we don't want gvg/naxx again right. I mean most of the cards that saw constructed play were held back until the final day. All the dragons and their synergy cards, murloc knight, challenger, competitive spirit etc. Before then we just had like totems, justicar and aspirant. It wasn't looking very good until the final day. Now again they are showing really boring cards. I think the card is fine, paladin needs to be balanced anyway but not something you show here. There is nothing interesting about it to create noise about this expansion pack you just announced. Seems like a bad move to me.

 

[Tacitus_]

You guys are aware it's a common card right? How good do you want it to be?

Rarity does not mean quality. Keeper of Uldaman is common, as is Shielded Minibot.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

The day Thaurissan leaves Standard will truly be a great day.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Yeah you guys are right, Naxx and GvG were downright insane with the amount of powerful cards dropped into the pool. If OGs is more like TGT then it would be preferable, I just hope the mechanics aren't as shitty as Joust.

 

[Tacitus_]

The day Thaurissan leaves Standard will truly be a great day.

Yup. Should've nerfed that after people realized what sort of degenerate stuff it allowed.

 

[veryslowhand]

that emperor value

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Yup. Should've nerfed that after people realized what sort of degenerate stuff it allowed.

How do you Nerf that? Give reduction at the end of opponents turn instead of yours? Feels a bit weak.

 

[veryslowhand]

give the reduction at the start of your turn

 

[Drkirby]

At the very least, you could likely make some dumb token paladin in Wild with the new card. Blizard will likely add another card that synergizes with silver hand recruits.

 

[Haly]

They'd probably rather ramp up the hype than have it taper off once all the cool stuff is revealed.

 

[Drkirby]

They'd probably rather ramp up the hype than have it taper off once all the cool stuff is revealed.

I'm hoping they throw us a bone before the tournament is over. Show off one of the more wacky Mythical or Legendary cards. Or even one of the more interesting ways to interact with C'thul (Surely there isn't 16 minions that just buff its stats?)

 

[Tacitus_]

How do you Nerf that? Give reduction at the end of opponents turn instead of yours? Feels a bit weak.

"At the start of your turn" instead of "At the end of your turn". You could actually react to it instead of just praying that it didn't hit too many combo cards.

 

[dimb]

They'd probably rather ramp up the hype than have it taper off once all the cool stuff is revealed.

Establishing a strong first impression is more important. This is a pivotal expansion for Hearthstone and so far the trust of what they're showing is old cards rebalanced to be less useful or interesting.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

They need to show us something gamechanging, something like Reno Jackson.

 

[Dahbomb]

It's not about the issue of power level of these cards that I personally have an issue with.

That new Paladin card is "good" in terms of power level. It's not as busted as Muster but it's also not as bad as Dark Whispers because it comes out earlier and the recruit tag is actually relevant. It's very good in Arena and it's usable in Constructed. Hell it's a great 5 drop for token based Paladin or Secret Paladin. Turn 5 Super Muster, turn 6 Mysterious Challenger is strong. This card with Juggler is also good. I am not saying it will for sure see play in Constructed but it's stated appropriately.

The issue I have with this card and a some of the other cards is that it reeks of laziness in terms of design. Sure, Blizzard put effort into the artwork, balancing and the sound effects of the cards but from a design point of view it's lazy.

The whole point of these new formats was that Blizzard could introduce crazy new cards without having to worry about design space. Instead they are going the opposite direction and printing "balanced" versions of previously ubiquitous cards. It's not interesting and it doesn't make me want to spend any resources on the new expansion.

I have the same issue with the Polluted Hoarder. It's balanced stats wise, it's not over powered or under powered. But why does this card exist when we have both the original Loot Hoarder, Novice Engineer, Gnomes Inventor (also 4 mana) and Azure Drake. Blizzard specifically mentioned how they didn't like cycle cards because it reduced deck sizes (citing Azure Drake as an example). Yet they introduced another cycle card into the game. And it's like the Gnomes were being cycled out of Standard, they are still here.


I really, really hope Blizzard is getting these "corrupted" cards out of the way first so that we can look forward to actual brand new cards that define the set. I don't want this set to be defined by beefier versions of older cards.

 

[Fireblend]

They need to show us something gamechanging, something like Reno Jackson.

...like C'Thun?

I don't think there's any minion in the game that can be compared more to Reno than C'Thun. Both place heavy restrictions on how you build your deck and both have a huge impact.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

...like C'Thun?

I don't think there's any minion in the game that can be compared more to Reno than C'Thun. Both place heavy restrictions on how you build your deck and both have a huge impact.

Not buying it until we see all the C'thun cards and all the nerfs.

 

[Dahbomb]

Cthun is cool but I am not a fan of printing 16 cards just to support it.

 

[Haly]

mispost

 

[Drkirby]

Oh god, they really are going to reveal just 1 more card this tournament. Blizzard plz.

 

[Nirolak]

It's not about the issue of power level of these cards that I personally have an issue with.

That new Paladin card is "good" in terms of power level. It's not as busted as Muster but it's also not as bad as Dark Whispers because it comes out earlier and the recruit tag is actually relevant. It's very good in Arena and it's usable in Constructed. Hell it's a great 5 drop for token based Paladin or Secret Paladin. Turn 5 Super Muster, turn 6 Mysterious Challenger is strong. This card with Juggler is also good. I am not saying it will for sure see play in Constructed but it's stated appropriately.

The issue I have with this card and a some of the other cards is that it reeks of laziness in terms of design. Sure, Blizzard put effort into the artwork, balancing and the sound effects of the cards but from a design point of view it's lazy.

The whole point of these new formats was that Blizzard could introduce crazy new cards without having to worry about design space. Instead they are going the opposite direction and printing "balanced" versions of previously ubiquitous cards. It's not interesting and it doesn't make me want to spend any resources on the new expansion.

I have the same issue with the Polluted Hoarder. It's balanced stats wise, it's not over powered or under powered. But why does this card exist when we have both the original Loot Hoarder, Novice Engineer, Gnomes Inventor (also 4 mana) and Azure Drake. Blizzard specifically mentioned how they didn't like cycle cards because it reduced deck sizes (citing Azure Drake as an example). Yet they introduced another cycle card into the game. And it's like the Gnomes were being cycled out of Standard, they are still here.


I really, really hope Blizzard is getting these "corrupted" cards out of the way first so that we can look forward to actual brand new cards that define the set. I don't want this set to be defined by beefier versions of older cards.

While I agree with the criticism, as an aside, I do notice that a recurring trend here is that all these cards come out later than their former incarnations.

I think they intend to slow the meta down across the board through the remaining nerfs while trying to maintain class identities.

Part of the original setup was that classes had different qualities of healing, taunts, single target removal, board clear, and related ideas, but they had to start printing neutrals like Antique Healbot (great heal) and Sludge Belcher (great taunt) because if you didn't have them, you couldn't deal with decks like Face Hunter unless you were a very specific class.

I'm thinking that Kill Command and either Rockbiter Axe or Doomhammer will be modified to only target minions toward this end.

 

[Officerrob]

Muster for Whispers, that is some lazy ass card design

 

[Tarazet]

I hope the power level is similar overall, we don't want gvg/naxx again right. I mean most of the cards that saw constructed play were held back until the final day. All the dragons and their synergy cards, murloc knight, challenger, competitive spirit etc. Before then we just had like totems, justicar and aspirant. It wasn't looking very good until the final day. Now again they are showing really boring cards. I think the card is fine, paladin needs to be balanced anyway but not something you show here. There is nothing interesting about it to create noise about this expansion pack you just announced. Seems like a bad move to me.

Shitty cards don't sell. Frankly, Paladin does not need another 5 drop. It's just going to be the class that starts on turn 4 again like it was in Classic.

 

[Fireblend]

Cthun is cool but I am not a fan of printing 16 cards just to support it.

I don't understand this mentality. Would you think the same if the alternative was a 128-card expansion? You act as if there were 16 cool cards before and the design team decided to throw them in an incinerator to add those C'thun cultists.

You guys sure love those half-empty glasses I agree what we've seen are pretty vanilla cards (other than C'thun, I think he's a game changer and even more so considering the BGH nerf), but judging them on a vacuum instead of waiting to see them in action or as a whole set seems so reductive and unnecessarily pessimistic at this point.

I wish Blizzard could reveal the whole set in one fell swoop so people were going crazy about the cool cards and not these, or coming up with cool synergistic decks, but I guess that doesn't make sense in the context of marketing or scheduling - still I will take holistic approaches to analysis once the set is revealed way more seriously than these otherwise plain "let's look at each card individually" ones.

 

[ZealousD]

 

[CoolOff]

The issue I have with this card and a some of the other cards is that it reeks of laziness in terms of design. Sure, Blizzard put effort into the artwork, balancing and the sound effects of the cards but from a design point of view it's lazy.

Preach. This lack of creativity combined with news like "no new inspire-cards in the set" just bums me out.

It's not about power level.

 

[Drkirby]

I for one like Muster for Wispers. I don't think it will be viable, but I'm deferentially going to put together a wild token paladin deck.

 

[The Adder]

I don't get the negativity around the new cards. People complain about how overpowered the Naxx and GvG cards are and then are disappointed when less powerful cards are shown. What happened to making TGT cards more appealing by lowering the power level of expansion cards in standard? We don't even know about potential synergies with the card yet. Does not compute.

Great game from Chessdude btw.

As the Johnniest Johnny player to have ever lived, I neither need a card to be nor care about a card being strong. I just want them to be FUN. And, save for C'Thun, these have all been boring as hell.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't understand this mentality. Would you think the same if the alternative was a 128-card expansion? You act as if there were 16 cool cards before and the design team decided to throw them in an incinerator to add those C'thun cultists.

My issue is that with 16 cards dedicated to just synergizing with Cthun some of those cards will never see play simply because there are 30 cards in a deck. You can't run doubles of a cultist if you want to use all of them in a deck. Plus because you need some spells in the deck and maybe other types of minions that puts the cultist number even less than that.

So some of those cultists would be unusable even in a deck that is built to take advantage of their abilities. Unless many of those cultists are Legendaries themselves of course.

This just seems like they are trying to brute force their way into making this deck work. We all know how that has turned out in the past.

 

[Drkirby]

I'm sure 6-9 Cultists will be class Specific, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Plus, like half of them will likely be unplayable.

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh I forgot about the potential for class specific Cthun cultists. That changes the math quite a bit.

 

[Haly]

Just play one of each Cultist and Reno.

RenoCthunLock!

 

[Owzers]

There's so many match-ups i dislike about hearthstone that it seems like i never enjoy actually playing the game. There are way too many control warriors at rank 11-12, get out of here. Luckily my next match is against an aggro shaman, something totally not terrible.

 

[dimb]

Oh I forgot about the potential for class specific Cthun cultists. That changes the math quite a bit.

Given the push to make C'thun universal by giving it to everyone, it seems unlikely that class specific cultists cards would exist to buff it.

 

[peakish]

Seems to me like they've shown three things so far. First the C'thun and the mechanic of how cultists interact with him. Second, some corrupted cards which they've made for "flavor". Now, a pretty standard card.

Not the most exciting lineup to me, but I can see why they're going about it this way.

 

[Tacitus_]

Given the push to make C'thun universal by giving it to everyone, it seems unlikely that class specific cultists cards would exist to buff it.

OTOH they could make class cards that synergize with the buff cards. Like a warrior card that gets you armor from the buffs or something like that.

 

[Drkirby]

You know, Stand Against Darkness will be pretty good if there is an Old God that gets stronger for each minion that dies.

Double points if the Old God can actually have an effect while being in your hand or deck. Like, everytime a friendly minion dies, deal 1 damage to a random enemy, without having to play the card even. Maybe it could also hurt you for 1 to balance out.

 

[ZealousD]

Stand Against Darkness will be pretty good in Wild for your Bolvar deck.

 

[Tarazet]

Given the push to make C'thun universal by giving it to everyone, it seems unlikely that class specific cultists cards would exist to buff it.

I don't know, when there is a card that is mandatory to put in every deck or it sucks and you lose, that's not a good thing for the game. That's like pre-nerf Nat Pagle, pre-nerf Leeroy Jenkins, Dr. Boom. And the fact that C'Thun seems to require half your deck to be dedicated to it makes me think that it will get awfully repetitive if that's what we see from every single class.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I'm sure there's a card or two in the new set that makes Stand Against Darkness better than it seems right now, I'm just disappointed it's so unimaginative. I'm okay with a card being utter trash if it's interesting, in fact I prefer it being interesting over viability.