The C'Thun effect makes me understand why they have to nerf Alexstrasza. I can see a Warlock doing Twisted Nether > Dr. 9 > C'Thun KO.
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
The C'Thun effect makes me understand why they have to nerf Alexstrasza. I can see a Warlock doing Twisted Nether > Dr. 9 > C'Thun KO.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Not only that - assuming you want to go with such awful design, I'd like to know how in the world you test that.
Also makes breaking out Jaraxxus kinda dangerous if you are facing a C'thun.
BananasWithGuns
Member
If Blizzard were smart they would use the format change to finally give Warlock a new hero power.
Tiny Knight of Evil new meta.
CraigerGamer
Member
So I casually played Hearthstone just after the game was out of Beta, having never played a Blizzard game in my life. I stopped playing after a few days but picked it back up when TGT hit. Since then, I have played HS almost daily. On top of that, I picked up Diablo III...which I now also play nightly. I just pre-ordered the latest expansion as well as Overwatch. And now tonight, I am about to fire up WoW for the very first time and grind to lvl 20 to get the new HS character.
You mean Shaman and Hunter.
ran into aggro decks?
GamerKingFaiz
Member
Anyone test if the auto level boosts work for the Lady Liadrin promo?
I'm not currently subscribed to WoW, but know my account has a level boost attached to it. I'd rather use that then actually level up another toon to 20.
I'm not currently subscribed to WoW, but know my account has a level boost attached to it. I'd rather use that then actually level up another toon to 20.
Karsticles
Member
I'm not saying that a deck of 1/1s and nothing else should be on par with Renolock. I'm saying that efforts should be made to ensure the matchups of most decks within various archetypes are even. For example, right now Aggro Shaman steamrolls every other Aggro deck archetype. But every Aggro deck archetype should be, at worst, a 4-6 matchup, and should strive for 5-5 based on intelligent decisions made by both players.
If ever you can say "Oh, you lost to deck X with Y, but that's intentional and you should expect that. Use Z instead to beat X", then the game is in a state of poor balance.
There are differences, but every viable deck ought to be, at worst, a 4-6 matchup range.
The same way you test things now, but with the goal being different.
That's not how you spell Shaman.
As I mentioned to you in chat, I wish Warriors could use their power to give +1 armor to any minion on the board.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Sure, as long as they got one as broken as Warlock's.
I mean, Blizzard likes to talk about limiting design space. Life Tap is the very definition of that.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Warlock's is fine(or at least the idea is fine), Shaman and Hunter's hero powers are garbage.
I don't understand how nobody saw Hunter's hero power being bad coming, as soon as I got into the game and found out their power I was like "oh that seems one dimensional".
And guess what, it's one dimensional.
Well in card games it's more like:
"You lost against Freeze Mage using Secret Paladin and that's a bad match up for you. But if you put in Kezan Mystic, Owls, Loatheb and Rag the match up becomes much better for you."
That's not something you can do in other competitive games which makes card balance a peculiar thing. Sometimes new players still play match ups badly and they can improve in that area (like not spamming hero power with Paladin so you have room to play your utility minions like Loatheb plus Owl).
Also this doesn't even factor card draw RNG and actual card text RNG. Some hard match ups can be won off of good luck.
"You lost against Freeze Mage using Secret Paladin and that's a bad match up for you. But if you put in Kezan Mystic, Owls, Loatheb and Rag the match up becomes much better for you."
That's not something you can do in other competitive games which makes card balance a peculiar thing. Sometimes new players still play match ups badly and they can improve in that area (like not spamming hero power with Paladin so you have room to play your utility minions like Loatheb plus Owl).
Also this doesn't even factor card draw RNG and actual card text RNG. Some hard match ups can be won off of good luck.
Of man that card fully buffed, can't wait till I can use voljin.... Oh wait.
I believe they said boosts don't count it has to be leveled on it's own.
I believe they said boosts don't count it has to be leveled on it's own.
Karsticles
Member
Actually, you absolutely can do this in Marvel. When FChamp is changing Doom from Hidden Missiles to Plasma Beam, he is basically sideboarding.
I think we've both talked before about this, and we both agree that sideboarding as an inbuilt mechanic is a great attempt to resolve this problem.
Doesn't Warlock have the most deck variance out there?
He means limiting design space in the sense that they can't print great cards for Warlock. They can't print a Demon that heals for a lot because that would be over powered in Handlock/Renolock. It's why so many Warlock cards have a big drawback. Dark Peddler is the best card they have gotten since Imp Gang in BRM.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. Class identify means pros/cons of each class.
Acerac
Banned
You mean besides Illidan and Imp Master's Imps?
You probably wouldn't silence the imps from Imp Master, though.
Karsticles
Member
I would like to see more Warlock demons become worth playing.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
I take it you do NOT work in software testing, then. Do you know how many manhours the work you're asking for would take to test the variables, and for no upside?
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
They're not buffing anything so at most they'll get some more demons(which is likely).
"To the void... I go. =("
You have fun playing face decks?
Every time I play aggro Shaman I feel bad because it feels like whether I lose or die is entirely dependent on whether I draw my early minions or not.
Karsticles
Member
The full testing doesn't need to be done dev-side. Aggregate player data from strong-ish players (tournaments, events, and legendary play) is enough. People already use decktracker; I would be surprised if Blizzard didn't have an internal decktracker system to determine win/loss rates of various cards and decks. If not, shame on them!
The game can't ever be perfectly balanced, but it's worth attempting to approach such a nirvana.
From a game that apparently makes millions a month, I don't think this kind of effort is asking too much! Developers can just look at which cards are unplayed and re-evaluate them, too. Why is Felguard 100% unused? Why have I never seen a Shadowbomber? Noticing that these cards are terrible isn't that hard.
Yeah.
Terrible buff/nerf policies, unfortunately.One of my favorite cards. I love reanimation decks in MtG, and it's kind of similar.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I'd like to see more demon minions have demon synergy, I think the only two minions that had synergy are leaving standard and now they're just a bunch of random minions. Also the lack of Voidcaller makes all demons worse.
?
Oh right, Illidan's is a thing.
I wonder if this expansion will add a GOOD neutral Demon, so Holy Knight is slightly less garbage.
I want my Scarab into Holy Knight Dream.
The new Druid card is a good sign that Cthun decks might be competitive. A Cthun deck needs cards which get immediate effect based off Cthun's stats, but that Druid card alone isn't enough. There needs to be a Goblin Blastmage/Blackwing Corrupter equivalent which interacts against your opponent's board in order for a Cthun deck to really work because more likely that not a Cthun deck is going to be playing from behind since Cthun minions don't have useful effects. Frankly Druid Cthun needs to be the best since they're losing Fon + SR, but if this card is the only Cthun class card that Druids get then I doubt they'll be THE Cthun deck.
edit: another reason why Druid Cthun probably won't be a top tier deck is that with combo gone they'll be forced into a Ramp archetype which is the antithesis of Cthun decks which require playing the early Cthun minions in order to activate the midrange Cthun minions like this one
tl;dr the card is good on it's own but it probably isn't enough to make Druid Cthun a good deck unless they reveal Neutral Cthun cards which work as removal
edit: another reason why Druid Cthun probably won't be a top tier deck is that with combo gone they'll be forced into a Ramp archetype which is the antithesis of Cthun decks which require playing the early Cthun minions in order to activate the midrange Cthun minions like this one
tl;dr the card is good on it's own but it probably isn't enough to make Druid Cthun a good deck unless they reveal Neutral Cthun cards which work as removal
Karsticles
Member
Eh, I feel like Demons aren't like Murlocs. You don't want them buffing each other. I think it's better if they synergize through cards like Demonwrath and Sacrificial Pact. It's just that most of the synergy options right now aren't very good.
I actually think Demonfire is an underrated card, and it just needs better targets. I mean, you can turn 1 Voidwalker, turn 2 Demonfire him, and now you have this gorgeous 3/5 taunt on the board on turn 2.
It's not the best strategy out there, but I think it has potential with some more cards. I'm particularly fond of the 6/8 Gang Boss Imp I had one game.
Demonfuse is an atrocious card, unfortunately, but Demonheart isn't bad.
Karsticles
Member
That could be cool. I think that's a big problem with the Warlock class cards right now: they have drawbacks that are often way too consequential for the budgeted stats the demon has, and there's no reason to use them. If they gave Warlock better ways to make use of Discard, Crystal Loss, and Health Loss offensively, then I think you'd see these cards played more (yeah, Health Loss as a benefit would be insanely OP, but how else will Pit Lord and Wrathguard see play?).
I mean, Step #1 is really just letting Warlock players choose what they discard. No sane player is ever going to play a 4/3 that randomly causes a game-winning card to be lost, which then gets hit by Frostbolt or Lightning Bolt anyway.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
The full testing doesn't need to be done dev-side. Aggregate player data from strong-ish players (tournaments, events, and legendary play) is enough. People already use decktracker; I would be surprised if Blizzard didn't have an internal decktracker system to determine win/loss rates of various cards and decks. If not, shame on them!
The game can't ever be perfectly balanced, but it's worth attempting to approach such a nirvana.
From a game that apparently makes millions a month, I don't think this kind of effort is asking too much! Developers can just look at which cards are unplayed and re-evaluate them, too. Why is Felguard 100% unused? Why have I never seen a Shadowbomber? Noticing that these cards are terrible isn't that hard.
Yeah.
One of my favorite cards. I love reanimation decks in MtG, and it's kind of similar.
As someone who does work in software testing - for Blizzard, no less - your posts just make me shake my head. I don't think you realize how impractical what you're insisting on really is. And again, for no upside, as other posters have explained very well.
I hate how much space Hearthstone takes up on mobile. I have basically nothing else on my phone (have just under 5gb to work with on internal storage, didn't realize you couldn't install the game entirely on SD card). Been uninstalling as many of the basic apps as I can to try to get this update installed, but it only tells you it can't install after it downloads the whole thing. If Old Gods adds much more, I will be completely unable to play anymore.