Support NeoGAF

[embalm]

Or just play Forbidden Shaping and get a 4-cost minion, and save Knife Juggler for later.

I wasn't saying that was a good play, just explaining how the card works.

My guess is that the card will be amazing at two times.

At 2 mana on curve. If you have nothing else it's worth using it. Especially against aggro and especially in Arena. Don't use it at 2 mana any other time.

At 6 mana almost anytime. Others will break down the average stats of minions and which mana costs have the best chances to make or break your turn, but my gut says 6 mana is where it's at. That is the cost where you don't see much stat/mana drop off and there are some really great cards with abilities or deathrattles.

 

[Super Nothing]

Yes, it'd be a desperation play, like popping a shredder for one. I'd just run a doomsayer, haha. There are several great 2 drops, but also quite a few bad ones. I'd probably only play Forbidden Shaping with no less than 6 mana. More likely around 8 or 9 since there are so many minions there with immediate effects.

A lot of expensive minions get their value from battlecries. If you spend your whole turn summoning Rafaam and don't even get one of his shitty relics, you basically just wasted that turn. Also, hello, Majordomo.

 

[Pooya]

It's another heavy RNG card for priest, it's somewhat similar to resurrect. If you want to use it as a curve filler, museum curator is probably still better. It has the same role in a priest deck as that or cards like thoughtsteal. Just finding a way to spend your dead turns and generate value. I feel it's redundant at best. yeah. I'm sure there will be trolden videos featuring this but that's it. We can do without bad RNG cards like this.

 

[bjaelke]

Museum Currator is not worth anything going into standard.

 

[Pooya]

We have to see what deathrattle cards are there, there will be some. Getting sylvanas/chillmaw/cairne isn't bad. It just doesn't give free taunts as much anymore.

 

[Tarazet]

At 6 mana almost anytime. Others will break down the average stats of minions and which mana costs have the best chances to make or break your turn, but my gut says 6 mana is where it's at. That is the cost where you don't see much stat/mana drop off and there are some really great cards with abilities or deathrattles.

That assumes you won't be playing Entomb on curve to remove a Thaurissan, but any of the late turns, Priest is usually floating mana and grasping for cards to play.

 

[Xanathus]

Forbidden Shaping works as a Wild Pyromancer trigger, highly likely played in Control Priest but the only problem I can see is whether it can fit into the deck because there may not be space to fit it in.

Forbidden Flame is terrible.

 

[Fireblend]

Hmmm... I see forbidden flame maybe getting play as a Flamecannon or even Arcane Blast replacement.

 

[Catvoca]

I played WoW a bit the other day and I couldn't get to 20. The game is sooooooo boring.

OK, being more specific, leveling a character to 20 by yourself in an MMO, especially one like WoW which pretty much invented the formula is soooooooooo boring.

Yep, it's a real drag. I wouldn't encourage anyone to bother unless they really want this portrait.

 

[Xanathus]

Hmmm... I see forbidden flame maybe getting play as a Flamecannon or even Arcane Blast replacement.

Flamecannon is 2 mana 4 damage. Arcane Blast is 1 mana 2 damage with potential for 4 damage and higher. The only way Forbidden Flame can be remotely comparable is if it did 1.5* the mana of damage.

 

[Fireblend]

Flamecannon is 2 mana 4 damage. Arcane Blast is 1 mana 2 damage with potential for 4 damage and higher. The only way Forbidden Flame can be remotely comparable is if it did 1.5* the mana of damage.

But Arcane Blast needs an activator for it to do more damage, and flamecannon targets a random enemy minion. I think Forbidden Flame can definitely justify its mana : damage ratio with its flexibility and "low" cost.

 

[Xanathus]

But Arcane Blast needs an activator for it to do more damage, and flamecannon targets a random enemy minion. I think Forbidden Flame can definitely justify its mana : damage ratio with its flexibility and "low" cost.

That's why I said it needs to do 1.5* damage, the others generally do 2* damage as a base damage. Hell, compare it to Fireball which has a 1 mana to 1.5 damage ratio, but it can hit face.

 

[embalm]

Flamecannon is 2 mana 4 damage. Arcane Blast is 1 mana 2 damage with potential for 4 damage and higher. The only way Forbidden Flame can be remotely comparable is if it did 1.5* the mana of damage.

Flame cannon is not available in Standard once WoG comes out.
AB requires spell damage in the deck, otherwise Forbidden Flame is very comparable and much more flexible.
Forgotten Torch is also a good comparison.

 

[ZealousD]

I don't think the mage spell is bad. Tempo Mage really likes burn spells and I think it works way better in tempo mage than something like the flaming torch.

That's why I said it needs to do 1.5* damage, the others generally do 2* damage as a base damage. Hell, compare it to Fireball which has a 1 mana to 1.5 damage ratio, but it can hit face.

Burn spells don't scale in terms of damage to mana ratio. They usually just add 1 damage per additional mana cost, and fireball is deliberately overpowered.

This spell basically sacrifices 1 damage for the flexibility of being able to scale its power however you need it to.

 

[Fireblend]

That's why I said it needs to do 1.5* damage, the others generally do 2* damage as a base damage. Hell, compare it to Fireball which has a 1 mana to 1.5 damage ratio, but it can hit face.

1.5 would be either too much or not provide that much of a swing. It'd be a first-stage torch at 2, a Fireball at 4, and stop growing in usefulness past 6 because of the low amount of 9+ health minions.

On the other hand cheap spells are great for mage, not to mention 0-mana ones. They buff Mana Wyrms, can provide an extra fireball with Antonidas (even if played in turn 7!), 2 extra pings for Flamewaker, etc.

 

[bunbun777]

If you brought out c thun with the priest card it should still get the buffs from assorted cultists right? "Wherever he is"

 

[Xanathus]

Here's another reason why that Mage spell is so terrible, it doesn't really remove anything with an equal or higher mana than the cost of the spell. A 3 mana 3/4 or a 4 mana 4/5 will require you to spend an additional 1 mana in order to cleanly remove that minion. That is not tempo, that's a tempo loss. Or say you want to use it to remove an aggro minion like a 3/2 Knife Juggler that was played on turn 2. If you're on 2 mana then the card only trades evenly. If you're on 3 mana then you better have a Mana Wyrm or you're floating 1 mana. And that brings another problem where since you HAVE to spend all your remaining mana, if you don't have the right card of a low mana cost to play then you are forced to waste your entire turn casting that spell and may overkill the minion. So this card is actually NOT flexible.

 

[Karsticles]

Here's another reason why that Mage spell is so terrible, it doesn't really remove anything with an equal or higher mana than the cost of the spell. A 3 mana 3/4 or a 4 mana 4/5 will require you to spend an additional 1 mana in order to cleanly remove that minion. That is not tempo, that's a tempo loss. Or say you want to use it to remove an aggro minion like a 3/2 Knife Juggler that was played on turn 2. If you're on 2 mana then the card only trades evenly. If you're on 3 mana then you better have a Mana Wyrm or you're floating 1 mana. And that brings another problem where since you HAVE to spend all your remaining mana, if you don't have the right card of a low mana cost to play then you are forced to waste your entire turn casting that spell and may overkill the minion.

Not all cards have health >= cost.

The selling point of the card is its flexibility. It might not be mana-efficient, but it can fill any gap you have at any time, which most cards can't.

 

[FeD.nL]

I don't think the mage spell is bad. Tempo Mage really likes burn spells and I think it works way better in tempo mage than something like the flaming torch.



Burn spells don't scale in terms of damage to mana ratio. They usually just add 1 damage per additional mana cost, and fireball is deliberately overpowered.

This spell basically sacrifices 1 damage for the flexibility of being able to scale its power however you need it to.

How is it a burn spell? It cannot target face. It's pure removal and while I like the mechanic I don't think this one is really exciting.

 

[ZealousD]

Not all cards have health >= cost.

The selling point of the card is its flexibility. It might not be mana-efficient, but it can fill any gap you have at any time, which most cards can't.

Yeah. That's kind of the reason Discover is good, because you can grab the card that fits the particular situation you need it for, even if it would otherwise be a bad pick. This card kind of works the same way. It may not have fantastic value or tempo for its cost, but you can adapt it to any situation, meaning it's rarely a dead card.

 

[Xanathus]

Not all cards have health >= cost.

The selling point of the card is its flexibility. It might not be mana-efficient, but it can fill any gap you have at any time, which most cards can't.

It looks like you did not read past my first sentence. I've outlined exactly why this card is actually not flexible. Try playing a game of tempo mage on ladder but in your mind replace Flamecannon with this card and you'll see how absolutely useless it is.

 

[Cat Party]

Love coming to this thread after new, creative cards are revealed to hear how bad they are.

 

[Karsticles]

It looks like you did not read past my first sentence. I've outlined exactly why this card is actually not flexible. Try playing a game of tempo mage on ladder but in your mind replace Flamecannon with this card and you'll see how absolutely useless it is.

Flame Cannon hits a random target and does 4 damage. What if you:
1) Need more than 4 damage, and have spare mana?
2) Need to ensure a particular target dies on a Zoo board?

As long as the card answers some situations other cards don't, it's a good addition and will probably see play. I read your post, and I responded accordingly.

Yeah. That's kind of the reason Discover is good, because you can grab the card that fits the particular situation you need it for, even if it would otherwise be a bad pick. This card kind of works the same way. It may not have fantastic value or tempo for its cost, but you can adapt it to any situation, meaning it's rarely a dead card.

That's how I take it to be, too. It's also why I LOVE Discover.

I also like the fact that this is exactly the kind of card that will only see play in certain decks. It isn't auto-include in every deck like Fireball, for example.

 

[Catvoca]

Love coming to this thread after new, creative cards are revealed to hear how bad they are.

Haha, it's the same everywhere on the internet with Hearthstone. Every card in the game is literally garbage or the most overpowered thing ever.

 

[Xanathus]

Just thought of the only one deck archetype that would run that card which is a (Reno?) Control Mage where you do not care about tempo and just want to have enough removal to handle all threats, in which case it can be fine to spend the entire turn removing a single threat. It's still a bad card for Tempo Mage and is not a replacement for Arcane Blast, Flame Cannon, or even Arcane Missiles.

 

[Karsticles]

Just thought of the only one deck archetype that would run that card which is a (Reno?) Control Mage where you do not care about tempo and just want to have enough removal to handle all threats, in which case it can be fine to spend the entire turn removing a single threat. It's still a bad card for Tempo Mage and is not a replacement for Arcane Blast, Flame Cannon, or even Arcane Missiles.

You can spend mana on other things before using the card.

 

[embalm]

Here's another reason why that Mage spell is so terrible, it doesn't really remove anything with an equal or higher mana than the cost of the spell. A 3 mana 3/4 or a 4 mana 4/5 will require you to spend an additional 1 mana in order to cleanly remove that minion. That is not tempo, that's a tempo loss. Or say you want to use it to remove an aggro minion like a 3/2 Knife Juggler that was played on turn 2. If you're on 2 mana then the card only trades evenly. If you're on 3 mana then you better have a Mana Wyrm or you're floating 1 mana. And that brings another problem where since you HAVE to spend all your remaining mana, if you don't have the right card of a low mana cost to play then you are forced to waste your entire turn casting that spell and may overkill the minion. So this card is actually NOT flexible.

You're right that when using it to remove a 4/5 minion the spell is not cost efficient. Neither is Fireball, Neither is Flame Cannon, and Neither is Dragon's Breath. All of those result in wasted mana or damage. What terrible spells they are!

Tempo? Let's look at some awesome tempo chances!

• Turn 3: Opponent plays Huffer! You play Mana Worm & 2 mana Forbidden Flame! You can now save your Frostbolt for bigger better targets!
• Turn 3: You already have the board. Opponent plays Scarlet Crusader! You can Ping away the divine shield & 1 mana Forbidden Flame kills the Scarlet Crusader! You keep the board and your minions can attack face

There are tons of opportunity for this spell to get incredible value. That is what is important. It is a tool. It is a spell tool that synergizes with lots of other cards. It's unique and fun. Whoo hoo!

 

[Raxus]

You can spend mana on other things before using the card.

People can't comprehend this card apparently. Especially considering flame cannon is leaving the meta. This card may arguably be slightly better for tempo mage. Especially if you run Archmage.

Add to the fact there is a loss of sticky minions and mage will finally resurge in popularity outside of the Alextrasa variants.

 

[Karsticles]

People can't comprehend this card apparently. Especially considering flame cannon is leaving the meta. This card may arguably be slightly better for tempo mage. Especially if you run Archmage.

Add to the fact there is a loss of sticky minions and mage will finally resurge in popularity outside of the Alextrasa variants.

As someone with only a Hunter and Zoolock deck, I am worried about the future of aggro.

That said, all I need is one card that lets you duplicate Dreadsteed and I'll be happy for the next few years.

 

[Xanathus]

You can spend mana on other things before using the card.

And I'm saying that in reality in order to get an effective usage of the card you won't actually be able to spend mana on "other things" most of the time. But I think I'm done trying to explain why it doesn't work in competitive gameplay because maybe I suck at explaining but maybe the comments in r/competitivehs may do a better job.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiv...hispers_of_the_old_gods_reveals_for_03172016/

 

[Zemm]

People are so rude. He's a mage, turn 1 mana wyrm, I axe it down, he concedes then messages me FeelsBadMan

 

[markofhavoc]

People are so rude. He's a mage, turn 1 mana wyrm, I axe it down, he concedes then messages me FeelsBadMan

Haha amazing, also dont mana worm first against a warrior, they always have an axe

 

[Super Nothing]

As someone with only a Hunter and Zoolock deck, I am worried about the future of aggro.

That said, all I need is one card that lets you duplicate Dreadsteed and I'll be happy for the next few years.

Belcher and Healbot are cycling out. If anything, I fear the return of Face Hunter.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

God damn, Enhanco-o-Mechano is such an underrated card. Played it turn 4 and got windfury on my Knife Juggler. 6 damage that turn, 14 the next with PO for lethal. Just disgusting.

 

[toddhunter]

The mage card is ok, since it can serve as an extra ping, an antonidas trigger, emergency big minion removal and a flamewaker trigger.

But it isn't as good as arcane blast or flame lance for what they do. It is in between and will only server as a so-so arena pick.

The priest card would be good in constructed if priests could run 40 cards. As it stands it could give you a minion early on when you are doing nothing, but you are doing nothing early on because you couldn't put cards into your deck. Adding this card isn't going to help that, so it is yet another so-so arena pick.

As someone with only a Hunter and Zoolock deck, I am worried about the future of aggro.

That said, all I need is one card that lets you duplicate Dreadsteed and I'll be happy for the next few years.

Unless divine favor gets nerfed, aggro paladin will absolutely shit all over everything.

 

[JesseZao]

Maybe there will be better spell power minions for the mage card to be more attractive. I still like it, but I want to set the whole set of course.

Maly freeze mage could make it decent. Maybe the inspire spell power card would work with it.

 

[bjaelke]

Search Your Hearthstone Collection Like Never Before!

 

[fuzzyset]

I wonder if/how the Forbidden cards work with cost reduction.

 

[JesseZao]

Search Your Hearthstone Collection Like Never Before!

Search params, nice!

 

[Ladekabel]

I'm trying to make a Malygos Dragon Priest. Facing one Secret Paladin after another which all curve out perfectly and I don't draw a single dragon.

 

[Karsticles]

And I'm saying that in reality in order to get an effective usage of the card you won't actually be able to spend mana on "other things" most of the time. But I think I'm done trying to explain why it doesn't work in competitive gameplay because maybe I suck at explaining but maybe the comments in r/competitivehs may do a better job.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiv...hispers_of_the_old_gods_reveals_for_03172016/

I think the more reasonable thing for you to do is respond to the posters here that have given specific ways the card is uniquely useful.

Belcher and Healbot are cycling out. If anything, I fear the return of Face Hunter.

Still not as strong as Aggro Shaman, especially since Leper Gnomes is reportedly getting a nerf.

 

[Apathy]

People are so rude. He's a mage, turn 1 mana wyrm, I axe it down, he concedes then messages me FeelsBadMan

Obviously hes mad you didn't let him just play his cards and create a giant 30/1 mana wyrm so he could one shot you.

 

[Ladekabel]

Getting value out of Rend. FeelsGoodMan

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Rank 5 achieved.

Now I just hope Old Gods doesn't release too late in the month so I can be done with this meta.

 

[jgminto]

I'm pretty excited for that Priest card. Priest probably has the most trouble filling out their mana so a card that scales with other plays or can just be played for a big threat should be pretty useful. The Mage card on the other hand isn't so great. 1:1 for mana and damage is a poor deal for Mage removal and I don't think the flexibility makes up for it.

 

[Slashlen]

Rank 5 achieved.

Now I just hope Old Gods doesn't release too late in the month so I can be done with this meta.

Don't worry, I'm sure it'll be early

Spoiler

May

.

 

[Owzers]

are purchased hero portraits animated even if you aren't at 500 wins?

if they ever went on sale or i ever had enough dust to craft a good control warrior.....C'thun Reno Warrior future.

 

[Nirolak]

Belcher and Healbot are cycling out. If anything, I fear the return of Face Hunter.

Since the nature of all their changes suggest they want a slower meta, and for not every class to have great heals and taunts, I suspect both Rockbiter Axe and Kill Command will be changed to only target minions.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Don't worry, I'm sure it'll be early

Spoiler

May

.

I should really just accept that this is going to happen. I don't know why I haven't.

are purchased hero portraits animated even if you aren't at 500 wins?

if they ever went on sale or i ever had enough dust to craft a good control warrior.....C'thun Reno Warrior future.

They are still animated, yes. If you don't have 500 wins then the border around the hero power is still wooden rather than golden and, in the case of Liadrin, won't produce golden tokens.

 

[Karsticles]

Since the nature of all their changes suggest they want a slower meta, and for not every class to have great heals and taunts, I suspect both Rockbiter Axe and Kill Command will be changed to only target minions.

I can understand Rockbiter because of the Doomhammer combo, but Kill Command is 5 damage for 3 IF you have a Beast on the screen. I have never felt like that card was too good, but rather well-balanced.

If they want a slower meta, they need to completely revamp the Hunter's hero power.