Reno's cool because he encourages a different sort of deck built around him and his effect is so extreme and specific to a game plan you don't really need to worry about no drawing into him most of the time, or otherwise encourage you to think about what makes up your deck and how soon you can take advantage of it. Not many single cards can say that, I think.
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
minions in freeze mage?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Reno... lost to that card. I was 1 off lethal the round before too. I think the way a lot of top decks are built will make him somewhat iffy though. A lot of deck win conditions are about bursting down. Even my control shaman can hit for 10 from no where. If I drop a bloodlust in it, reno's heal isn't gonna be a huge deal, not a bigger deal than healbot I think. There is some give and take, which is why he is a pretty well balanced card. You can only have 1 and your deck's overall consistency drops as well.
I think it is good in control decks. And perhaps a little bit better than I expected in control shaman. I can't really say with so few games played, but at least it is a new mechanic that isn't as shitty as some other RNG rolls.
I think it is good in control decks. And perhaps a little bit better than I expected in control shaman. I can't really say with so few games played, but at least it is a new mechanic that isn't as shitty as some other RNG rolls.
With my Renolock if I see Reno in my opening hand/mulligan against a Hunter I feel like I have won the game 90% of the time. I will actually keep it in my opening hand against Hunters.
This card improves the Handlock vs Hunter match up a lot. Sort of like how Heal bots did with GvG.
This card improves the Handlock vs Hunter match up a lot. Sort of like how Heal bots did with GvG.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Random effects can hit the fucking escape boss? Why?
It's not a boss.
phoenix296
Member
So I redeemed 3 packs from my LotV CE yesterday and I still haven't got them.
E: NM, hearthstone was set to the wrong region. Nothing interesting out of them.
E: NM, hearthstone was set to the wrong region. Nothing interesting out of them.
FiveSix4Three
Member
Just crushedd some priest's dreams with betrayal in arena.
2x Velens chosen minions and then proceeds to drop emperor cobra in the middle.
Ultimate value.
2x Velens chosen minions and then proceeds to drop emperor cobra in the middle.
Ultimate value.
For Fatigue Mill you kinda need the Brann card to double up on your battle cries. And even then Fatigue Mill Druid has some essential doubles like Naturalize and the board clears.
You'd just save him for match ups where the opponent can last long enough into fatigue that you've also used up most of your deck. He'd be a card that more or less guarantees you the fatigue win.
FiveSix4Three
Member
And now I've just had my dreams crushed by paladin in arena.
T2 minibot
T3 mustard
T4 dark iron dwarf
T5 azure drake
T6 truesilver + Make a dude
T7 boom
I mean Wtf...
T2 minibot
T3 mustard
T4 dark iron dwarf
T5 azure drake
T6 truesilver + Make a dude
T7 boom
I mean Wtf...
MonorailCat
Member
omg the Seatstory Cup Nymhs Song Remix right now,
Best. Song. Ever.
The dankest of memes.
Best. Song. Ever.
The dankest of memes.
It's great.
Nice to see Froden doing well also
MonorailCat
Member
Yup.
Seatstory is always great fun.
It's a casual tournament for a casual game.
like it much more than these super serious tournaments.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
dr. boom is already a pretty terrible counter to MC.
What are people replacing from the MC secret set though?
toddhunter
Member
How so? Assuming you have another minion on the board, which you probably will not, you will just trade it off first to trigger the secrets. Even then you wouldn't play boom anyway, because it'll just hit 1 life.
All the cards that make it a proper midrange deck instead.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think maybe sacred trial could have a place in control paladin... probably well before it has a place in secret paladin. I guess it would be pretty easy to play around though, and people often are already playing around MCT so it probably isn't worth it.
Then again, maybe that secret based healing 3 drop can be played. Maybe.
Then again, maybe that secret based healing 3 drop can be played. Maybe.
It sucks I tried it. You have access to half of the ramp options and you don't have double Ancients. You can't double on the godly taunts like Belcher or Druid of the Claw either. And one Keeper of the Grove means you lose a lot of flexibility. It feels like a hybrid Midrange and Ramp Druid, excelling at neither.
Basically Druids are far too reliant on two copies of their class cards. You are playing a much weaker version of a deck if you play one ofs.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Reno doesn't have to be played in a decklist with no duplicates. It's never going to heal against an aggro deck if you even just duplicate one card, but in a mill deck you might see it do some work in the ultra late game, even without any considerations towards making your decklist have no duplicates.
Alternate question then. Does Ramp Druid work in a meta defined by Reno? Seems like Reno decks would suffer against higher curve decks with a lot of high power minions that make it harder to run out of gas.
toddhunter
Member
There will never be a meta defined by Reno. It seems exciting now, but when people switch back to real decks people will find cobbled together single decks plus a heal really doesn't do that much.
I think he will stick for Midrange Paladin. There are so many options there for the early game, it's easy to keep duplicates to a minimum early on and once Mid Paladin reaches the late game, it has always relied on singles with powerful Legendaries. The only real awkwardness is deciding whether any of the 4-drops should be duplicates like Truesilver or Consecration.
Reno decks also usually have a huge amount of threats. It's the slower decks that would even bother to run Reno.
In a Reno vs Reno match up it comes down to who has better removals and bodies. Reno Druid has the bodies but not the removals.
From what I have played it seems Handlock, Priest, Mage and Paladin are good candidates for Reno decks because they have a variety of spells ranging from removals to board clears. Warrior can easily make a Reno deck but its's pointless for them to make it because they already have so much armor up.
toddhunter
Member
Exactly, so why do you need a heal at all? If you run all the OP early game, you really only have to worry about the late game stuff, in which case a heal isn't really going to win the game for you. Having big stuff on the board or lots of little stuff to beat your opponent is what people will end up playing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is avoiding getting killed sounds good, but it only works against aggro which you can already beat. Against everything else you need to be consistently playing the right cards on curve to actually win the game and only having one of those things in your decks is just going to get you swamped. Even against fatigue decks, it is even more important to hit your cards early.
I'm generally wrong about most cards, so I'm probably wrong here. But I think with TGT missing a good 2 or 3 drop was already pretty much game over. That is only going to get worse with the bullshit they added this time around.
You are not wrong of course, tempo is still the best.
However, being able to heal for full is still a big deal. Mostly because there are many slow decks that if they survive until a certain point they can beat the other Midrange/tempo/aggro decks.
Like Handlock is the perfect example. Basically Handlock these days dies pretty easily by turn 6-7. If on turn 6 I can play Reno to get back like 20 something life... that's enough for me to win the game with.
Control decks usually lose because they don't draw the right answer at the right time or they get run over just before they get the exact mana to pull off their combo to stabilize the board. Reno gives them that edge to survive long enough for them to stabilize and win the game off of it.
Real issue with Reno is the deck construction. I don't care what anyone tells me... you aren't running Reno in a Freeze Mage deck. There's no way Freeze Mage is going to give up double Ice Blocks, double Doomsayers, double freeze spells just so they can have an OP heal. Having double of one card is probably fine but having more than a few doubles in your deck means you probably shouldn't be running Reno to begin with.
Certain classes/decks can run Reno while others absolutely cannot. Even those that run it.. they can make a slightly better, more consistent deck by running double copies of their best cards. That's the real weakness of Reno... it's that it lowers the power level of a deck to become a god card. And that's why it's balanced.
And if it's balanced it might not be tier 1 category.
However, being able to heal for full is still a big deal. Mostly because there are many slow decks that if they survive until a certain point they can beat the other Midrange/tempo/aggro decks.
Like Handlock is the perfect example. Basically Handlock these days dies pretty easily by turn 6-7. If on turn 6 I can play Reno to get back like 20 something life... that's enough for me to win the game with.
Control decks usually lose because they don't draw the right answer at the right time or they get run over just before they get the exact mana to pull off their combo to stabilize the board. Reno gives them that edge to survive long enough for them to stabilize and win the game off of it.
Real issue with Reno is the deck construction. I don't care what anyone tells me... you aren't running Reno in a Freeze Mage deck. There's no way Freeze Mage is going to give up double Ice Blocks, double Doomsayers, double freeze spells just so they can have an OP heal. Having double of one card is probably fine but having more than a few doubles in your deck means you probably shouldn't be running Reno to begin with.
Certain classes/decks can run Reno while others absolutely cannot. Even those that run it.. they can make a slightly better, more consistent deck by running double copies of their best cards. That's the real weakness of Reno... it's that it lowers the power level of a deck to become a god card. And that's why it's balanced.
And if it's balanced it might not be tier 1 category.
How do I trade off a minion that has more than 3 hp? It will only hit a noble sacrifice.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I've cooled off a bit on scarab. Mainly because it is the style of card that is just terrible against aggro or board control decks. But also because if you already have a 3 drop, scarab isn't a card that is going to pay off well even when on curve. On the other hand, it seems like most of the best 3 drops aren't played on curve anyway. But that also impacts how good of a card it is played on curve... double edged sword.
It is a fun card and shaman seems to have the highest amount of 3 mana cards you'd want to discover, shaman needs stronger board presence on turn 2 than a 1/1. So basically sums up my thoughts earlier in the day before I played with the card a bunch. You probably don't play this over haunted creeper in almost all shaman decks. And I don't think you'll play it over totem golem, especially when shaman is about to get a 1 drop that is buffed by playing totem golem.
There were times when scarab did really well. Getting a third hex, a free totem tuskar, a free feral spirits against face hunter... but I'm not sure if that justifies it. In some sense, you're just hitting hero power on turn 2 and getting a 1/1 totem. Hell, maybe scarab would be worth running if it were in fact a totem race not beast.
It is a fun card and shaman seems to have the highest amount of 3 mana cards you'd want to discover, shaman needs stronger board presence on turn 2 than a 1/1. So basically sums up my thoughts earlier in the day before I played with the card a bunch. You probably don't play this over haunted creeper in almost all shaman decks. And I don't think you'll play it over totem golem, especially when shaman is about to get a 1 drop that is buffed by playing totem golem.
There were times when scarab did really well. Getting a third hex, a free totem tuskar, a free feral spirits against face hunter... but I'm not sure if that justifies it. In some sense, you're just hitting hero power on turn 2 and getting a 1/1 totem. Hell, maybe scarab would be worth running if it were in fact a totem race not beast.
toddhunter
Member
It is, but then you are not running two dark bombs etc.
Basically you are making your deck completely anti-aggro, which is fine, but you don't necessarily need Reno to do that and it isn't going to get you far. I'd expect the death of him will be when you have him on turn 6 but your opponent is just sitting there armouring up while you wish you had double moltens for later.
Watching Kibler try it in Mage right now confirms it. Not only is he not drawing it (and you only get one) but consistently he doesn't have the right answers in his hand. Even if he did top deck it to get the full heal, the opponent is stomping him anyway.
It'll work in "some deck", tree of life style, but that isn't a meta.
If you have something with 3 or more hp on turn 6 vs paladin, just take a screenshot and boast about your early game skillz.
Card advantage isn't really an issue with Shaman to begin with.
Well it is but not for the standard decks Shamans are running which are more about tempo (shocker). So for those types of deck, they don't have much to gain from a Novice Engineer type card.
You run Demonwrath instead of a 2nd Hellfire. You run a Senjin instead of a second Drake (or a Shredder). You run a Bolf instead of a 2nd Healbot. You run a Spellbreaker as your 2nd silence etc. When the next few wings come out you will have an Ancient Watcher replacement too with Eerie Statue.
The real issue with Renolock is that you don't have 3-4 taunt activators (only one Sunfury/DoA so you definitely need that Senjin/Belcher) and you don't have the 2nd Molten. I would say that you can afford to put in the 2nd molten and 2nd Sunfury while also run Reno for the best result.
Well it is but not for the standard decks Shamans are running which are more about tempo (shocker). So for those types of deck, they don't have much to gain from a Novice Engineer type card.
You run Dark Bomb and Shadow Bolt in Renolock. Before Dark Bomb was introduced, Shadow Bolt used to be used in Handlock for the same purpose.
You run Demonwrath instead of a 2nd Hellfire. You run a Senjin instead of a second Drake (or a Shredder). You run a Bolf instead of a 2nd Healbot. You run a Spellbreaker as your 2nd silence etc. When the next few wings come out you will have an Ancient Watcher replacement too with Eerie Statue.
The real issue with Renolock is that you don't have 3-4 taunt activators (only one Sunfury/DoA so you definitely need that Senjin/Belcher) and you don't have the 2nd Molten. I would say that you can afford to put in the 2nd molten and 2nd Sunfury while also run Reno for the best result.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Before dark bomb, soul fire was ran. I'd say shadow bolt was never ran, but it was ran before people understood how bad it was compared to soul fire. That turn 4 drake/giant + soulfire swing was harsh.
You are talking about a time when Soul Fire used to cost 0 mana. Everything is bad compared to that Soul Fire.
Shadow Bolt is alright in a Reno deck... it can kill a Totem Golem and Wyrmrest Agent AAYYY!!
Soul Fire is valid option too though.. I just don't like running Soul Fire in Handlock because the hand is very important.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yep, dark bomb came right at the same time as the soulfire nerf, or maybe a week or two apart. Nearly the same time at least.
What I mean is, does a deck like Ramp Druid (w/o Reno itself) counter a deck that would run Reno?
Alright I'm starting to get some consistent wins with this deck. But man this dude must have been soo salty. He was running Fel Reaver + Antonidas. Got me to 14 Health, dumped his two fireballs to get me to 2 health and then I mega healed.
You should have pinged yourself in the face first for the ULTIMATE BM.
Ramp Druid does alright against the other control decks except Handlock (without the Combo, Handlock is favored because of Jaraxxus). That's not going to change much with Reno involved.
Main thing to know about Reno is that it improves a control decks match up against aggressive decks but doesn't do much against control/slow decks. In fact it might actually make your match up worse against them (depending on how you built the deck).
BigJonsson
Member
Ugh
Sacred Trialed a Sylvanas and lost my 9/8 MC lol
Sacred Trialed a Sylvanas and lost my 9/8 MC lol
this graph shows the probability of reno being 'active' after N card draws with M duplicates in the deck.
In reality the probabilities are potentially superior to this graph. if your duplicates are in the early game you stand to keep them in mulligan or even mulligan for them. additionally deck thinning effects like mad scientist which 'draw' cards from a more limited set than your entire deck can allow you to run duplicates more safely.
In reality the probabilities are potentially superior to this graph. if your duplicates are in the early game you stand to keep them in mulligan or even mulligan for them. additionally deck thinning effects like mad scientist which 'draw' cards from a more limited set than your entire deck can allow you to run duplicates more safely.