veryslowhand
Banned
That reno play
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Reno is the hero that Hearthstone needs, and the one it deserves!
Surprised Kripp thought so highly of the card even though he wasn't having much success with it. I guess he admitted that he was trying different decks with it rather than using the best Reno deck which he believes to be Renolock.
Surprised Kripp thought so highly of the card even though he wasn't having much success with it. I guess he admitted that he was trying different decks with it rather than using the best Reno deck which he believes to be Renolock.
Professor Lich
Member
Has it been confirmed that Beneath the Grounds stops Reno yet? Would be good to know for Bounce Warrior too if that's the case.
Dark Peddler second double card draw doesn't stop Reno triggering so probably no.
Professor Lich
Member
I'm confused here, how would Dark Peddler interact with Reno? It just adds the card to you hand.
Reno rogue doesn't quite work as far as I can tell. You need the spell suite too much to rely on Reno.
The best Reno deck will be the one that can get away with playing singletons of all their removal, or just stall the longest until they're working with a near empty deck, neither of which describes Rogue.
Still using stuff like Betrayal and Burgle is fun.
The best Reno deck will be the one that can get away with playing singletons of all their removal, or just stall the longest until they're working with a near empty deck, neither of which describes Rogue.
Still using stuff like Betrayal and Burgle is fun.
Reno is basically neutral MC for control decks. I didn't think it was possible but there you go. Any Reno deck trades a little quality and consistency for game winning amounts of value, which is exactly how Secret Paladin functions.
Haven't been watching the tournament. I didn't know Reno worked on what was actually left in the deck, thought it was at construction. So draw heavy decks like Freeze can just wait out the a few key duplicates before playing it, that's what is happening? Makes it more interesting than I thought, will have to try out a warrior variant (although maybe there you just do 1 ofs anyway). Cool.
irfaanator
Banned
yea that's whats happening. Mage is just good with it since it has multiple cards that fulfill the same role especially w/ torch now. But JJ is running double scientists, frostbolts, and secrets I believe
Reno Jackson created a strategy that revolved around fully healing your hero in one turn without requiring any cards on the board. Going face and trying to kill your opponent as fast as possible makes an overall game of Hearthstone more fun and compelling, but restoring 20+ health in one turn is not particularly fun or interactive.
double scientists and double secrets have such a minimal impact on reno, you mull for scientist and then it pulls your secrets, really easy to dump those duplicates.
I lol'd!
irfaanator
Banned
it's last man standing w/ 1 revive. can revive one deck that's already lost
In the semi final, he rather banned out Gaara's 2-Kazan-Shaman than the Control Warrior.
irfaanator
Banned
that sweep. guess freeze mage deserves that tier 1 spot now
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think Reno is going to get nerfed eventually. They'll give LoE a few weeks during its launch window, but once sales die down they'll have to look at Reno.
The problem with Reno, not that I want to see it nerfed, but looking at it from Blizzard's point of view, is that it enables a particular kind of grindy control deck that's heavy on Legendaries because that's the best way to activate Reno. Mull for early game removal where your dupes are, and then everything past 6 is a Legendary. It'll make it even harder for new players to get onto ladder, and that's probably unacceptable in the long term.
There's enough life gain neutrals now that you can stop any kind of rush deck in its tracks with ERF/Refreshment/Healbot, which gives you enough time to draw into Reno, which negates the first 6 turns of the aggro/tempo player's game.
The question is will they gut Reno like they did Warsong? Or make it more reasonable like a flat +15 Health restore?
The problem with Reno, not that I want to see it nerfed, but looking at it from Blizzard's point of view, is that it enables a particular kind of grindy control deck that's heavy on Legendaries because that's the best way to activate Reno. Mull for early game removal where your dupes are, and then everything past 6 is a Legendary. It'll make it even harder for new players to get onto ladder, and that's probably unacceptable in the long term.
There's enough life gain neutrals now that you can stop any kind of rush deck in its tracks with ERF/Refreshment/Healbot, which gives you enough time to draw into Reno, which negates the first 6 turns of the aggro/tempo player's game.
The question is will they gut Reno like they did Warsong? Or make it more reasonable like a flat +15 Health restore?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think they'll nerf Reno. Even if he is slightly too strong, he isn't strong enough that blizzard is going to nerf it. I think the reno decks are the new thing to figure out how to play against. And that is a great thing for this type of game. Changing up the decks you want to target and figure out how to beat keeps the game interesting.
I'm just messing around with a burgle rogue and I think its actually quite strong against reno decks. After all, I am generating more resources for my deck with burgle and I have a single copy of gang up I have used to get multiple loahtebs (vs freeze) and ragnaros (vs control warrior). I am not trying to burst my opponent down and my opponent isn't filling the board crazily so I think it could be a decent deck if refined a lot. Control rogue had shown some promise in tgt so I am thinking maybe once tomb pillager comes out I might give it a real shot.
I'm just messing around with a burgle rogue and I think its actually quite strong against reno decks. After all, I am generating more resources for my deck with burgle and I have a single copy of gang up I have used to get multiple loahtebs (vs freeze) and ragnaros (vs control warrior). I am not trying to burst my opponent down and my opponent isn't filling the board crazily so I think it could be a decent deck if refined a lot. Control rogue had shown some promise in tgt so I am thinking maybe once tomb pillager comes out I might give it a real shot.
That's when we riot, RIOT. expansion after expansion, FINALLY control got one decent card against aggro. I've played it on ladder quite a bit now and it definitely destroys decks like aggro druid and hunter that go all in. I think it's fair, if you have a real board with value minions, full heal isn't going to win the game still. It makes all in decks an actual gamble unlike before where it was always better to go face, healing for 8 or 4 isn't really a big deal and none of those cards have a notable body. The card has a lot of benefits for the game and will make a lot decent but not top tier cards see play. People were complaining that the game is about playing best minions on curve, well this is a solution somewhat, now think of other possible future cards that trigger with the same condition.
Beats warrior? lol sure
that reading fail!
Professor Lich
Member
Considering that Emperor was never nerf'd, I don't see Reno getting hit either. It's probably a card they see that just enables other types of decks to be played, which is a great thing in my opinion.
That being said, I could see it putting the game in situations that are as un-fun as others when cards/decks were nerf'd pretty badly.
That being said, I could see it putting the game in situations that are as un-fun as others when cards/decks were nerf'd pretty badly.
irfaanator
Banned
I'd expect handlock to be good against reno freeze mage but I guess I was wrong. May just see kezan in play more to counter that deck
I can't believe people are seriously talking about nerfing Reno.
Like what the hell man.
People see Freeze Mage do well for a few matches and they start blaming it on Reno.
If anything that Torch has contributed more to Freeze Mage than Reno.
You wanna know how to beat Reno decks? You play a fine tuned control deck. It will become a match of who can gain the most value, who can out play/out read each other and who has the deck with the more value. If the other guy has a Reno deck then his deck will have less value overall because he's playing one offs + Reno (which isn't a great card outside of the heal which doesn't matter much in control vs control).
If anything people have more to worry about Renolock. Reno actually improves its match ups a lot (it improves aggro/Hunter match up and improves Freeze Mage/Oil Rogue match up) and Handlock has lots of threats + Jaraxxus to go toe to toe against any control deck. And even then you can beat a Renolock by playing classic Handlock yourself. Or you can play a Control/Midrange Paladin type deck with Justicar and even *gasp* Eadric and Enter the Colisseum.
Like what the hell man.
People see Freeze Mage do well for a few matches and they start blaming it on Reno.
If anything that Torch has contributed more to Freeze Mage than Reno.
You wanna know how to beat Reno decks? You play a fine tuned control deck. It will become a match of who can gain the most value, who can out play/out read each other and who has the deck with the more value. If the other guy has a Reno deck then his deck will have less value overall because he's playing one offs + Reno (which isn't a great card outside of the heal which doesn't matter much in control vs control).
If anything people have more to worry about Renolock. Reno actually improves its match ups a lot (it improves aggro/Hunter match up and improves Freeze Mage/Oil Rogue match up) and Handlock has lots of threats + Jaraxxus to go toe to toe against any control deck. And even then you can beat a Renolock by playing classic Handlock yourself. Or you can play a Control/Midrange Paladin type deck with Justicar and even *gasp* Eadric and Enter the Colisseum.
decent card against aggro, definitely destroys aggro druid and hunter that go all in. That's not quite my definition of decent.
we have aggressive decks then the yolo I innervate Fel Reaver or never trade decks, a bit different.
Zoo is an aggro to mid range depending on the list, secret paladin is similar, with the boards they can have Reno isn't going to win the game.
Face Hunter and aggro druid that just go into top deck mode by turn 4-5, get destroyed yeah, that's fair.
Good.
Though I would say that Aggro Druid can finish games before Reno is even a factor so that's not even completely true. Midrange Druid still does really well against pretty much every Reno deck.
Not to mention that Secret Paladin can still beat all these Reno decks. Tempo decks aren't going anywhere with Reno.
The Reno complaints kinda reminds me of the Justicar Trueheart complaints. Then people realized that Trueheart doesn't do much against those Tempo/Secret Paladin/Druid decks because they finish the game before Justicar does much. Bash on the other hand was much more helpful for CW in TGT as far as getting to the late game (where Warriors win anyway). Justicar just improves the match ups that Warrior already demolished like Freeze Mage and Oil Rogue.
I've considered all this. The way I see it you're either playing Reno or non-Reno Control (which will still be heavy on legendaries to outvalue Reno), which is something Blizzard does not want, and is hostile to new players.
Reno can slow down the game enough to make Confessor playable, which is another 1600 dust that won't be available to new players.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
People already calling for reno nerfs wow.
Game might actually require a thought process if face is not always the place ?
Game might actually require a thought process if face is not always the place ?
They'd be insane to nerf Reno now, it's a good thing that there's an option to counter decks that vomit low cost cards. Viable control decks will also make designing cards for aggro less restrictive. The gulf between aggro and control has been getting bigger and bigger since after Naxx and this has finally evened the playing field a little.
You can also play Mill/Fatigue/Grinder decks to counter all the control/Reno decks.
It's finally time for Anubarak Rogue!
I also think stuff like Midrange Druids, Midrange Paladin and Secret Paladin are going to be fine against Reno.
The way I see it we could end up with a cycle of counter that goes like this:
Reno decks counter Aggro.
Classic Control decks counter Reno decks.
Mill/Fatigue decks counter classic control decks and Reno decks.
Tempo/Midrange decks counter Mill/Fatigue decks and some control decks.
Aggro decks can beat the tempo/midrange decks.
And I don't see an issue with this. The problem before was that Tempo decks could beat anything and I would argue that they are still pretty damn strong. What's hurt the most here are the all in Aggro decks but those are still good against other non-Reno decks.
BananasWithGuns
Member
We've had Reno for all of three days and people are already calling for nerfs? Late game/greedy control decks haven't been viable in forever (with a few exceptions) and it's not like a deck running Reno is unbeatable.
If there's a ton of Reno decks out there then god forbid you play something other than a face aggro deck.
If there's a ton of Reno decks out there then god forbid you play something other than a face aggro deck.
It's also another thing to consider that Reno decks increase the amount of cards being played from the card pool.
Stuff like Demonwrath, Bouncing Blade and Gorehowl are being played and people are doing work with it.
If there's a Reno Priest made then that would allow you to have an excuse to have Shadow Death, Entomb AND Mind Control in the same deck!
Stuff like Demonwrath, Bouncing Blade and Gorehowl are being played and people are doing work with it.
If there's a Reno Priest made then that would allow you to have an excuse to have Shadow Death, Entomb AND Mind Control in the same deck!
I'm pretty sure Blizzard doesn't want those decks to be common.
Not unless they god draw. Was playing Kibler's Renolock list last night and it felt incredibly stable against all three of those decks.
Way too optimistic for me.