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[Dahbomb]

I still dont know what were they thinking while designing warlock hero power, suck powerful effect shouldnt be granted for free to a hero. Cards that let do that on MTG multiple times are banned from tournament play...

Just tells you what state the game is in when a broken hero power like that is a liability when most decks don't care that you have a 10 cards in hand, the health loss just means they get to kill you faster.

Handlock has to use ridiculous comeback mechanics like Moltens/Shadow Flame/Jaraxxus/massive heals to stand a chance against the field.


That said there will be some meta where Warlock will be the best. If they keep introducing good ways to counter aggression and heal face then Warlock will eventually be the best class. Until stuff like 14-15 damage from hand combos exist in the game, Warlock will not be on top.

 

[bronkonagurski]

I actually discovered that Fel Reaver is straight up bonkers in this brawl. It's like you don't even have a drawback at all.

Yep.

 

[Portugeezer]

So... Stampeding Kodo doesn't go off twice with Brann.

well... okay then.

 

[Xanathus]

So... Stampeding Kodo doesn't go off twice with Brann.

well... okay then.

Are you sure there were 2 possible targets with < 2 attack on the field?

 

[Portugeezer]

Are you sure there were 2 possible targets with < 2 attack on the field?

Yeah there were 3: two 2/3 dragon thingies and my stolen tundra rhino.

Stampeding animation began, killed a dragon, animation started again and did nothing.

 

[greepoman]

Yeah there were 3: two 2/3 dragon thingies and my stolen tundra rhino.

Stampeding animation began, killed a dragon, animation started again and did nothing.

Double battlecries are always same target, it went off on the one dragon twice.

 

[Xanathus]

Double battlecries are always same target, it went off on the one dragon twice.

I don't think that's how it's supposed to work for random target battlecries because Mind Control Tech can steal 2 minions if there are 5 on board.

 

[Professor Lich]

Somebody send a tweet and ask Brode!

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah there were 3: two 2/3 dragon thingies and my stolen tundra rhino.

Stampeding animation began, killed a dragon, animation started again and did nothing.

Brann is pretty buggy in general. More fodder for Disguised Toast videos.

 

[Mulgrok]

The one card I would remove from hearthstone is Ice Block. It might at as well have text that reads, "skip your opponent's turn"

EDIT: It should be something like "negate the damage from the next enemy attack". It could negate the damage to the hero or their minion. That would actually be interesting.

 

[Brofist]

Double battlecries are always same target, it went off on the one dragon twice.

It really should kill 2 targets in the case of the Kodo since it's random. Targeting 2 minions with like a Fire Elemental would be broken though so in that case it makes sense that it's 2x on one target.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

The one card I would remove from hearthstone is Ice Block. It might at as well have text that reads, "skip your opponent's turn"

Anything to wipe Freeze Mage out of existence

 

[tootsi666]

I'm convinced that HS community hates everything that isn't Vanilla Midrange Paladin

 

[toddhunter]

The one card I would remove from hearthstone is Ice Block. It might at as well have text that reads, "skip your opponent's turn"

EDIT: It should be something like "negate the damage from the next enemy attack". It could negate the damage to the hero or their minion. That would actually be interesting.

It could also read "just run kezan".

 

[Mulgrok]

I would change the force of nature treants to have the ogre "50% chance to attack another target" text. That would be more like how they work in WoW.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Just tells you what state the game is in when a broken hero power like that is a liability when most decks don't care that you have a 10 cards in hand, the health loss just means they get to kill you faster.

Handlock has to use ridiculous comeback mechanics like Moltens/Shadow Flame/Jaraxxus/massive heals to stand a chance against the field.


That said there will be some meta where Warlock will be the best. If they keep introducing good ways to counter aggression and heal face then Warlock will eventually be the best class. Until stuff like 14-15 damage from hand combos exist in the game, Warlock will not be on top.

Talking about healing, I saw a stupid card that healed you completely if you had no repeat cards in your deck.

I'm betting that's essential for suicidal locks.

 

[Dragner]

I'm convinced that HS community hates everything that isn't Vanilla Midrange Paladin

HS community hates combo and loves rushing face.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I'm convinced that HS community hates everything that isn't Vanilla Midrange Paladin

Counterpoint - Fuck Freeze Mage.

 

[bronkonagurski]

I don't think that's how it's supposed to work for random target battlecries because Mind Control Tech can steal 2 minions if there are 5 on board.

I experienced both of these situations earlier today. I experienced MCT stealing two minions first. So in a later game, I had the Stampeding Kodo and fully expected it to kill both of the 2 attack minions on the board. When it failed, it kind of wrecked my turn since I was counting on that.

 

[Mulgrok]

It could also read "just run kezan".

Yes, because there should totally be cards that can only be countered by 1 other specific card, except if you are hunter.

EDIT: I am one of the players who prefers midrange battles over the bipolar aggro/control meta.

EDIT: I fell another toddhunter shitpost... I need to stop feeding the troll.

 

[toddhunter]

Yes, because there should totally be cards that can only be countered by 1 other specific card, except if you are hunter.

Then it could read "run curse"

 

[Mulgrok]

Swapped out some more cards in my midrange paladin deck and it seems much more versatile. Especially better against control decks.

[/IMG]

 

[gutshot]

Was Brawling and my opponent discovered a Tomb Spider which discovered a Tomb Spider which discovered a Jeweled Scarab which discovered something else I didn't get to see. Discoverception!

 

[toddhunter]

Yes, because there should totally be cards that can only be countered by 1 other specific card, except if you are hunter.

EDIT: I am one of the players who prefers midrange battles over the bipolar aggro/control meta.

EDIT: I fell another toddhunter shitpost... I need to stop feeding the troll.

You are whinging about one card, for one deck for one class being the worst thing in the game.

And it has a hard counter available to every single deck.

 

[thepotatoman]

I made a Zoo Rogue deck because oil rogue but with Nerubian Egg and Unearthed Raptor feels clucky.

Compared to zoolock, you're exchanging late game draw for late game value combos and weapons for better tempo. It's better than zoolock against freeze mage, thanks to the unearthed raptor and piloted shredder providing a lot more stickiness against freeze mage, making it closer to a 50/50 instead of the huge advantage freeze mage has against zoolock.

Went 7-6 with it today at rank 6, with 4 of those wins being without drawing Unearthed Raptor at all early game, so I feel pretty good about it.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm convinced that HS community hates everything that isn't Vanilla Midrange Paladin

Combo decks are something that get hated almost universally. Freeze Mage is sort of a combo deck but it comes with the added frustration of playing against freezes and stalls. Thing is that it's not even that fun to play as a Freeze Mage because you get destroyed by Loathebs, Kezan and Warriors.

Though any deck that is top tier will eventually get hated on. If Tempo Mage was the best deck to run people would complain about its RNG swings and Unbalanced Esportal.

 

[veloxStrix]

I'm convinced that HS community hates everything that isn't Vanilla Midrange Paladin

Eh... I hate Midrange Paladin. It was epitome of "play things on curve that are better than other things, win" up until Secret Paladin came along with even better things to play on curve. That type of deck is, in my opinion, the worst type of archetype.

Freeze Mage has a finite amount of damage and requires a level of skill from both players to show how good it is. If either player is bad, that player will almost never win barring obscene variance. It's one of the few "skill" based matchups in Hearthstone. It's also adeck that will almost always see some level of play since it's strength is that it preys on a fundamental aspect of the game - playing minions. It's by far the most unique deck in Hearthstone.

Ultimately, everyone playing Hearthstone is a human (well... barring the ones who aren't) and humans tend to get frustrated when repeating a scenario over and over and not succeeding. The ladder forces players into this exact scenario, and the top meta decks end up being blamed.

 

[Dahbomb]

Let's be real here... there's no skill required in the CW vs Freeze Mage match up. From either sides.

And skill requirement in Freeze Mage is highly overrated. It's nothing compared to Grim Patron (old and new). I would probably not even rate it higher than Oil Rogue skill wise.

And Freeze Mage does not prey on minions being played. Freeze Mage can kill other non CW based control decks just as fine if they don't play minions (like against Control Priest). In fact that's better for Freeze Mage because minions are getting too efficient/sticky for their board clears these days and the pressure is high. If they get the time to draw their cards and get a good Emperor off safely then they win against any deck that isn't Warrior. It's pure set play at that point and it's really up to the other deck to stop the set play.

Playing against Freeze Mage isn't that tough or skill intensive either... you play it like you play against most control. You don't over extend more than you have to (ie. play around board clears), you deny the draws if possible, you save silences for Doomsayer and you save Loatheb for clutch situations. It probably takes more skill to play against Handlock because you have to juggle the life totals appropriately and play around Shadow Flames/Molten. It's even less skill intensive if you have a Kezan Mystic because then you just yolo until it's time to kill then put down Kezan.

And I say all of this playing both sides of the fence. Last month I almost took Freeze Mage to legend (got stopped at rank 1, also played some other decks). I was one of the proponents of Freeze Mage in the Secret Paladin meta, you can check the receipts. Thing is that Druids still whoop Freeze Mage as does CW. In fact I went up against like 3 Warriors in a row and I instantly deleted that deck from my deck list.


TL;DR: It's neither fun to play Freeze Mage nor is it fun to play against it. It's not fun getting killed over 2 turns from full health and no board plus it's not fun fighting in unwinnable match ups or games you think you are winning but they have the one or two cards that completely check mate you in every single match up.

Yeah it's a different playstyle but it's not a playstyle that is fun.


Also Freeze Mage abuses the Mad Scientist secret interaction as well. If anything that is at the top of list that should be nerfed for the good of the game. And that's not a Freeze Mage complaint, that's a Mad Scientist complaint.

 

[ZealousD]

Winning with a 30 legendaries deck is hilarious. Especially when it's against a meta-deck, lol

 

[Ketch]

Also Freeze Mage abuses the Mad Scientist secret interaction as well. If anything that is at the top of list that should be nerfed for the good of the game. And that's not a Freeze Mage complaint, that's a Mad Scientist complaint.

I'm pretty new, but mad scientist is by far my most hated card. even more so then dr.boom. Like what are you supposed to do against turn 1 or 2 scientist? There's nothing you can do except eat the secret. It's like shielded mini bot or creeper, except at least with those two cards you can come up with a plan and make a play. for mad scientist you just kill it and hope you don't lose the game to whatever secret it is.... I think i hate secrets too.

 

[jgminto]

Played against a Reno Druid, that was a bad deck. It's actually reassuring once you realise there's such a low chance of them drawing useful cards while you draw all your good stuff.

 

[Dahbomb]

All Secrets are balanced/fair. Playing Mirror Entity from hand is fine and in many cases will be a loss of tempo because they can just play a less than 3 cost minion. On the other hand getting a free minion due to Mad Scientist is most definitely not fine.

Same for Hunter and Freezing Trap. Not having to waste precious mana at the start to set up a Freezing Trap can lock out some classes. It's a huge tempo bonus to get that off of Mad Scientist. I can't tell you how many games I have lost to Midrange Hunter where I thought "if that Scientist didn't get that free Secret in play I would've won this game easily".

Pretty much every Paladin Secret is kinda meh when played from hand. They are extremely low value and are usually just annoying. Though when the Paladin dumps like 3-4 Secrets from hand then Divine Favor or when 5 of them get dumped on the field from MC... that's when shit becomes really unfair.

 

[Tarazet]

Also Freeze Mage abuses the Mad Scientist secret interaction as well. If anything that is at the top of list that should be nerfed for the good of the game. And that's not a Freeze Mage complaint, that's a Mad Scientist complaint.

If it was changed to "Deathrattle: draw a Secret card" then that would make it somewhat balanced. There is the fact that most of the time, you have no control over when the secret gets put into play or which one.

And I agree with your comparisons to Patron Warrior. There's a deck that if you use the tools in the deck optimally but not according to the archetype of the deck, you get stomped. The old version was a combo deck.. now it's a tempo deck and you want to play minions on curve, which feels weird if you played the old list a lot.

 

[Dahbomb]

The new Grim Patron deck is in fact a Tempo deck but it's still a skill based tempo based deck sort of like Rogue.

You have to save combo pieces for the right time. You have to know when to use pieces for board clears or to set up combos. You have to know when to use them for card draw. You have to know when is the most appropriate time to use Grim Patrons.

In some ways the new Patron list is actually harder to play than the old one because you have to fight harder for board control and you cannot afford to lose your Patrons so easily as you don't have an OTK finisher to bail you out later on.


More people should be playing that deck. It beats Freeze Mage still and does well against most of the other aggro decks. But just like old Patron most people on Ladder aren't skilled enough to play it well. The first 3 turns are actually really rough because you don't have strong tempo plays (you have Armorsmiths and Acolyte, no real one drop though sometimes you can get like an Axe and Corsair out).


And yeah Mad Scientist should draw a secret. But that would make it "balanced" and thus people wouldn't run it.

 

[ZZMitch]

Wow I decided to test out Etheral Conjurer in my Casino Mage deck today and it is really good. Ended up dropping Azure Drake and another card for it x2. Since you get to choose from 3 random mage spells when you play it you can really fine tune you hand for the specific match up/scenario you are in.

For example in my last game against Zoo I was able to discover both Flamestrike and Blizzard. Against control warrior in the late game I discovered Mirror Entity. Against a rouge that I was behind on board and looking to close out the game I was able to discover Pyroblast. Such a versatile card, don't be surprised if you see it often soon!

 

[bjaelke]

Played against a Reno Druid, that was a bad deck. It's actually reassuring once you realise there's such a low chance of them drawing useful cards while you draw all your good stuff.

Druid is perhaps the worst class for Reno if you go by traditional decks. There are too many good duplicates to cut.

 

[jgminto]

Kripp is so bad at Mill Rogue...

 

[Dahbomb]

For example in my last game against Zoo I was able to discover both Flamestrike and Blizzard. Against control warrior in the late game I discovered Mirror Entity. Against a rouge that I was behind on board and looking to close out the game I was able to discover Pyroblast. Such a versatile card, don't be surprised if you see it often soon!

Yeah that card is great. I have seen people using one copy in their deck. I think Azure Drake still has value due to the spell damage though and that's why it's hard to cut. Also people are scared for the 3 health on Conjurer. Still an excellent card for Tempo Mage. It was one of my top cards for the wing.

Reno is only good for Fatigue Druid as far as Druid decks go. Otherwise you can play a super gimped "ramp" Druid. Yeah it's pretty bad, you get an extremely inconsistent deck no matter what you try to make. The Druid class cards are just too integral for them.

 

[ZealousD]

Yeah I could tell going in that Ethereal Conjurer was one of the better Discover minions. At the very least you play him over Saraad. The stat loss really isn't that bad and since you're picking from Mage spells you're basically guaranteed to get something useful.

 

[Kangi]

Kripp is so bad at Mill Rogue...

"Okay, this Mage has Chromaggus on the board and an empty hand. I'm on low health. He has no minions left in his deck."

"...Better play Coldlight and lethal myself!"

 

[Dahbomb]

Ahahaha Kripp with the fail lethal into crazy punish.

All thanks to GG Portal getting out a Chromaggus that duplicated Arcane Missiles for the lethal.

 

[Xanathus]

Kripp is so bad.

FTFY

 

[Haunted]

The only instance where I don't hate Freeze mage is when they play a Doomsayer on a completely empty board to preempt a turn.

I can respect that play.

 

[Dahbomb]

The only instance where I don't hate Freeze mage is when they play a Doomsayer on a completely empty board to preempt a turn.

I can respect that play.

Tempo Doomsayer. /kappa

 

[Sneaky Gato]

As a person who has had a lot of trouble before beating the expansions is it just me or is this the easiest one so far. I've pretty much just marched through every single boss on the first or second go around.

 

[bjaelke]

Yeah they've been fairly easy even on heroic. 10 turn escape is still a refreshing addition.

 

[Mulgrok]

Djinni is like a better Druid of the Claw. Whenever I play it the body acts as a taunt, and opponents will do crazy crap to get it removed. If they don't remove it, the next turn it gets big and scary, maybe.

 

[thepotatoman]

Druid is perhaps the worst class for Reno if you go by traditional decks. There are too many good duplicates to cut.

Not just that. Reno is antithetical to the whole design of the class altogether.

Reno decks typically suck at early game board contention, and Druid has a poor selection of good spells to regain a lost board because the class was designed to gain the board early with mana manipulation and powerful minions, not spells. Druid would be extremely OP without the drawback of crappy spells.

 

[Haunted]

People casually mentioning how easy the new adventure is has me heading back into the Heroic Scarvash fight.


Though I do agree in principle, the past adventures required some highly specific decks to beat in Heroic, this one, not so much. I did laugh when Trump said "I don't respect the normal bosses" and hit them up with an actually random deck, auto-generated by the game. :lol

 

[bjaelke]

Djinni is like a better Druid of the Claw. Whenever I play it the body acts as a taunt, and opponents will do crazy crap to get it removed. If they don't remove it, the next turn it gets big and scary, maybe.

Except when you need it to charge.