Karsticles
Member
As long as it only targets your own minions, it will permanently be a meme.
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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0 Mana Silence your own minion. Draw 2 cards.
Basically Pot of Greed if you have a minion.
Karsticles
Member
I was speaking to mana cost changes. I don't think people would even run it if it was 0 mana, silence your own minion, draw a card.
I don't think so, cards that provide a benefit in exchange for a negative effect are interesting. The meme is that Blizzard gave the worst class this godawful mess of balance instead of a playable card.
I think they would, it would allow for more consistency with drawing your early game (which Priest doesn't have at the moment but that's besides the point).
Nah people would run it if it was 0 mana. Mostly because it's a free cycle in many situations so you can be playing a 28 card deck.
Karsticles
Member
I feel like Priest generally doesn't want an auto-cycle card.
IDK. I wouldn't want a free cycle on most of my decks - I have enough trouble fitting everything I want in 30 cards.
That's why you wait for the pro players to streamline the decks, and Priest can run Elise for Control matches and turn their draw into Legendaries if that's an issue.
If Purify wasn't garbage it would have been an interesting parallel to Prince Malchezaar with thinning and expanding your deck.
Karsticles
Member
Agreed.
While you don't want your deck to be thicker than necessary, it isn't true that you want your deck to be as thin as possible. For example, imagine if you were trying to play Hearthstone with a 5-card deck. A 10-card deck might be pretty successful, though, since you could play the perfect curve.
+2 health for a class all about healing is pretty solid. Could you imagine, say, Hunter running Power Word: Shield?
Hunter would love Power Word: Shield, their draw is awful so if they had cheap cycle cards they'd 100% take it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Who wouldn't run power word shield? lol
It would probably be auto-include in any deck that can fit it.
It would probably be auto-include in any deck that can fit it.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Hell, a lot of us hunters play Tracking just because it's a 1 mana mega cycle even though that 1 mana doesn't affect the board in any way whatsoever.
Karsticles
Member
No doubt on the attack.
Wasn't the meta slower when Flare was 1 mana? Correct me if my timeframe is wrong.
I never see Tracking in actual top player decklists. I've personally never found it to be desirable - it's just a tempo loss.
Hahaha, maybe you are right.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Once the corruption meta comes around, purify is king. You'll see. You'll all see.
When flare was 1 mana, we were in undertaker meta, easily the worst aggro meta to date. UT was nerfed a month after gvg was released and flare was nerfed around the release of GVG at the same time as auctioneer and soulfire. The nerf before that set of nerfs was leeroy + buzzard. That buzzard/leeroy nerf lead to the UT meta. There wasn't really any midrange hunter being played. It was all deathrattle aggro hunter. The worst the game ever was imo.
When flare was 1 mana, we were in undertaker meta, easily the worst aggro meta to date. UT was nerfed a month after gvg was released and flare was nerfed around the release of GVG at the same time as auctioneer and soulfire. The nerf before that set of nerfs was leeroy + buzzard. That buzzard/leeroy nerf lead to the UT meta. There wasn't really any midrange hunter being played. It was all deathrattle aggro hunter. The worst the game ever was imo.
wait, forbidden shaping always counts as 0 mana, even though it spends all your mana... sadface
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Officerrob
Banned
Firebat thinks only 11 of the cards are playable (7 good cards and some tech cards)
Somewhere between 11 and 20 cards are good/playable in this set.
Pro players always tend to under rate cards because usually if a card isn't competitive they put it as bad.
irfaanator
Banned
combo priest would most likely run purify draw if it was 0 mana. even just a midrange tempo priest would b/c then you actually play it on the same turn as statue or watcher
edit: noxious spends half his vid talking about purify lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QomW87qzZZA
edit: noxious spends half his vid talking about purify lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QomW87qzZZA
Firebat actually gave a well reasoned and legitimate review on Purify.
Like I am pretty sure he spent more time researching the card than Blizzard did designing it.
Anyway, I made some theory craft decks for the adventure:
Dragon Paladin (with Curator)
Beast Druid
Reno Control Mage w/ Medivh and Curator
I didn't bother putting in new Zoolock or Midrange Hunter because it's changing like 1-2 cards.
Like I am pretty sure he spent more time researching the card than Blizzard did designing it.
Anyway, I made some theory craft decks for the adventure:
Dragon Paladin (with Curator)
Beast Druid
Reno Control Mage w/ Medivh and Curator
I didn't bother putting in new Zoolock or Midrange Hunter because it's changing like 1-2 cards.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'd go with Murloc Knight over Finley as a curator target.
Also the creme de la creme...
The Tempo Holy Champion Resurrect Priest deck.
The synergies, the plays, the god curves, the value.
*Circle of Healing with Injured Kvaldir + Blademaster while having Cleric or Holy Champion on board. Instantly win the game.
*Power Word Shield to buff Boneguard Lietenant, keep healing and buffing it up with Temple Enforcer, literally unkillable because of synergy with hero power.
*Holy Nova while in a trade situation with Holy Champion/Cleric on board, instantly win the game.
*Turn 2 Flame Juggler on Fiery Bat, instantly win the game off of coin flip.
*Play Blademaster, get it killed, Resurrect it as a 4/7 (WOW!), coin out Onyx then another Onyx to get triple 4/7 Blademasters. Instantly win the game.
*Curve from Bishop into Temple Enforcer, now your Bishop becomes unkillable with the HP buff.
*Lightspawn 4 mana 5/5 and no overload... ENOUGH SAID!
*Holy Champion sticks on board for more than 2 turns you will instantly win the game, they will take like 15 damage to face.
*Ragnaros finisher but you don't need that card because you will have won by the time Onyx resurrects the 2nd or 3rd Blademaster.
*No Ooze, Auchenai or Cabal because those are situation cards. No need for situation cards when your core cards carry you.
The Tempo Holy Champion Resurrect Priest deck.
The synergies, the plays, the god curves, the value.
*Circle of Healing with Injured Kvaldir + Blademaster while having Cleric or Holy Champion on board. Instantly win the game.
*Power Word Shield to buff Boneguard Lietenant, keep healing and buffing it up with Temple Enforcer, literally unkillable because of synergy with hero power.
*Holy Nova while in a trade situation with Holy Champion/Cleric on board, instantly win the game.
*Turn 2 Flame Juggler on Fiery Bat, instantly win the game off of coin flip.
*Play Blademaster, get it killed, Resurrect it as a 4/7 (WOW!), coin out Onyx then another Onyx to get triple 4/7 Blademasters. Instantly win the game.
*Curve from Bishop into Temple Enforcer, now your Bishop becomes unkillable with the HP buff.
*Lightspawn 4 mana 5/5 and no overload... ENOUGH SAID!
*Holy Champion sticks on board for more than 2 turns you will instantly win the game, they will take like 15 damage to face.
*Ragnaros finisher but you don't need that card because you will have won by the time Onyx resurrects the 2nd or 3rd Blademaster.
*No Ooze, Auchenai or Cabal because those are situation cards. No need for situation cards when your core cards carry you.
Doesn't surprise me, heh. I didn't realize the Common rarity also until Kripp pointed it out. Talk about bullshit.
Anyway, one dynamic I don't think has been talked about much is the Mage-Shaman power trade-off's. Most people noticed it with Maelstrom Portal vs. Arcane Missiles, where one is a strict upgrade over the other, but this has been quite common between these two classes in the past. Specifically, cards like:
Fireball <-> Lava Burst: Fireball is a straight-up 1-damage increase over LB with Overload included.
Frost Bolt <-> Lightning Bolt: Again, equaling out the Overload, Frost Bolt is straight better than LB because of the effect.
Arcane Intellect <-> Ancestral Knowledge: Same effect, but technically costs more in Shaman thanks to Overload, which is either good or bad depending on what Overload synergies you have present.
Polymorph <-> Hex: Actually, this one is really balanced as mirror effects go if you ask me. It's still a good representation of the similarities these classes' spells share.
Feels like they thought it was time to swing the pendulum back over to Shaman's side and give them this minor AoE spell with a shiny new effect for whatever reason. Is it necessarily powercreep? Ehhh, based on the past spells, this was probably always in the works. Except for Secrets/Weapon, they probably view them as two sides of the same coin.
(There have also been 'Downgrades' in the case of something like Dark Bomb when it was in Warlock, printed after Frost Bolt but clearly with less utility. They aren't afraid of going in the opposite direction)
Overload isn't exactly plus 1 mana, it's like 0.5-0.75 mana because A) you are getting advantage by being able to play the card a turn or two earlier than it should be allowed to B) Between Tunnel Trogg and overload negating cards, sometimes the Overload isn't even a cost. C) If you reach a point where you have overloaded all of your crystals for the next turn, any additional spell you play that overloads basically is treated like it has no overload at all. D) Not relevant at all when you are using it to close the game which is why Aggro Shaman is so busted with overload.
Ancestral Knowledge is insane in Aggro Shaman because they can refill their hand and search for lethal in the same turn while buffing their Tunnel Trogg without losing the tempo. This stacks when you are playing a bunch of overload cards in the same turn. In Control Shaman, they can draw for a board clear, use Elemental Destruction and then Lava Shock to have a full play next turn.
That's why a 4 mana 7/7 isn't actually a 6 mana 7/7 due to the overload. That's why a Lightning Bolt isn't really a 2 mana deal 3 damage (because it can be played on turn 1 or can finish an opponent with one less mana). And it's also why Lava Burst shouldn't be compared to Fireball at all. Imagine if Blizzard made a card that was the equivalent of a 5 mana fireball for Shaman (so say it deals 7 damage instead of 6)... but made it 3 overload. 2 mana deal 7 damage in Aggro Shaman deck... nah man nah.
And aside from that... a class card in one class functions differently and needs to be balanced appropriately in another. Execute would be broken in Mage because they can always guarantee a kill with it at 3 mana (so basically Mage always has access to an Assassinate that costs 3 mana). Hunter's Mark would also be broken in Mage. Swipe might be too powerful in Shaman because of their ability to roll the Spell damage totem. Forbidden Healing would be broken in Warlock and Priest. And of course.. a Fireball would be broken in Hunter (people already complain about Kill Command).
Ancestral Knowledge is insane in Aggro Shaman because they can refill their hand and search for lethal in the same turn while buffing their Tunnel Trogg without losing the tempo. This stacks when you are playing a bunch of overload cards in the same turn. In Control Shaman, they can draw for a board clear, use Elemental Destruction and then Lava Shock to have a full play next turn.
That's why a 4 mana 7/7 isn't actually a 6 mana 7/7 due to the overload. That's why a Lightning Bolt isn't really a 2 mana deal 3 damage (because it can be played on turn 1 or can finish an opponent with one less mana). And it's also why Lava Burst shouldn't be compared to Fireball at all. Imagine if Blizzard made a card that was the equivalent of a 5 mana fireball for Shaman (so say it deals 7 damage instead of 6)... but made it 3 overload. 2 mana deal 7 damage in Aggro Shaman deck... nah man nah.
And aside from that... a class card in one class functions differently and needs to be balanced appropriately in another. Execute would be broken in Mage because they can always guarantee a kill with it at 3 mana (so basically Mage always has access to an Assassinate that costs 3 mana). Hunter's Mark would also be broken in Mage. Swipe might be too powerful in Shaman because of their ability to roll the Spell damage totem. Forbidden Healing would be broken in Warlock and Priest. And of course.. a Fireball would be broken in Hunter (people already complain about Kill Command).
You're making Overload sound like it's still a mechanic that wasn't completely worthless for the past 1.5-2 years until they wised up and printed 1) cards that actually treated Overload not as an incentive but a penalty, 2) printed ways to clear it with Lava Shock, and 3) printed the best possible synergy card to go with it in Tunnel Trogg.
Once TT rotates out of standard, it's bye-bye most of the reasons why the effect will go limp again. Eternal Sentinel being around thankfully means the effects won't cripple the class (you'll just need a crutch). Meanwhile, the other class equivalents will still have their viability. What Mage doesn't run or at least consider putting Fireball, Frostbolt, etc. in their deck.
That's why part of me thinks the reason for none of these current Karazhan cards having Overload is because they're going to pick up the slack for the class once the others leave. So they chose relatively harmless effects to boost.
God, if they had presented yet another Random Damage spell, so help me I would've pulled my hair out.
Well, ignore really divergent effects, I'm talking about identical/near identical cards. Lots of cards that all they do is damage, or draw.
irfaanator
Banned
that a real deck or a joke deck? you do understand when you play minions on curve you never/barely hero power so youre really relying on coh for holy champ synergy.
Kotetsu534
Member
I decided to discuss and rate the new cards from an Arena perspective, sorting them into five categories: Godly, Strong, Average, Bad, Terrible. I would consider a generic no-text 2-drop an average card.
Druid:
Enchanted Raven (Common): 1 mana, 2/2, Beast.
It's strong. Druid can contest the early game significantly better with a common class card like this. It trades with 3/2s and your hero power protects it from 2/1s. Beast synergy gives it late game relevance which 1-mana cards usually lack - consider potential turn 6 Enchanted Raven -> Druid of the Fang plays. I don't think it'll be super insane and turn Druid into an elite class though.
Menagerie Warden (Common): 6-mana, 5/5, Battlecry: Choose a friendly Beast, summon a copy.
Going with strong. You only pay 1-mana for the battlecry (a vanilla 5/5 for 5 is fine), and it's potentially game-winning. You'd definitely rather draft it in decks where you already have Beasts and have a fairly low curve, but Druid already has a ton of Beasts to pick from and it's curve will get lower in this adventure. I particularly like the thought of T5 Stranglethorn Tiger -> T6 Menagerie Warden, meet my three 5/5s. It's also the kind of card that will wreck games in the first week until people start playing around it, like Murloc Knight once did.
Moonlands Portal (Rare): 6-mana spell, Restore 6 health, summon a random 6-cost minion.
Strange card, but I'm going with strong. A random 6-cost minion is likely to be pretty good according to the spreadsheets - apart from Corrupted Seer there are very few truly awful outcomes, so you're likely giving up 1-mana to heal for 6. You could use that on your face against an aggro deck, but more likely you heal your Druid of the Claw or Druid of the Fang and start to get way ahead on the board. Flexibility is a big deal in Arena, and that's what carries this card into the strong tier I think.
Overall: Druid's moving up in the world. It's going to be more likely to take the board in the early game and if it gets to turn 6 with a board, expect it to race ahead. On the other hand, it still lacks the endless removal of Mage and the crazy tempo plays Rogue can pull off, so I see it placing 3rd at best when everything shakes out.
Hunter:
Kindly Grandmother (Common): 2 mana, 1/1 Beast, Deathrattle: summon a 3/2 Beast.
Think a lot of people are overshooting this a tad, but still strong. It gives Hunter more Beasts on the board, which is crucial, but it is a bit on the slow side. The opponent can choose to ignore it if they can't deal with the 3/2 and risk the potential Houndmaster. It also matters that unlike Haunted Creeper the first form dies to a ping, which gives Rogue and Mage more potential ways to clear it. Still, board presence is crucial for Hunter, and it will rightly be drafted often.
Cloaked Huntress (Common): 3 mana, 3/4. Your secrets cost 0.
It's strong with no text. You don't draft too many secrets in Arena, but maybe with this as a Hunter common you start to prioritise them. I'd consider it better than Kirin Tor as you'd normally rather have a 3/4 than a 4/3 on turn 3, and as a common your odds of drafting it to follow up an early Freezing Trap, say, are quite high.
Cat Trick (Rare): 2 mana, secret. When your opponent casts a spell, summon a 4/2 Panther with stealth.
Kind of a new mechanic, but I think it's bad in Arena. You get a 1-mana discount on a normal Jungle Panther, but you don't control when, if ever, you'll get it out.
Overall: Good boost to Hunter's early game, with a sticky 2-drop and a strong 3-drop, but not enough to move them up much.
Mage:
Firelands Portal (Common): 7 mana, spell. Deal 5 damage, summon a random 5-cost minion.
Going with a Godly here. 7-mana's a fair commitment, but for your money you get a strong removal that also summons a likely decent minion. It's essentially a built in 2 for 1 that doesn't cost you much, if any, tempo. Can also be used for extra reach, which Mage already has a ton of. The subtle effect of this card is to put even more pressure on opponents going into T7 - they have to decide which, both, or neither of Firelands Portal and Flamestrike to play around. The big thing is that if they play into a Firelands, they completely lose tempo - it kills their minion and establishes a board. Get ready to see this all the time.
Medivh's Valet (Common): 2 mana, 3/2. Battlecry: If you control a secret, deal 3 damage.
Higher end of average. You'll draft it, but you'll never be excited about it. Well, unless you live the dream, which might not be as rarely as you'd think. Hmm.
Babbling Book (Rare): 1 mana, 1/1, Battlecry: Add a random Mage spell to your hand.
Going with average. 1-mana 1/1s aren't anything special, but backed up with the threat of a ping on turn 2 they become more effective, and there are a lot of strong Mage spells. When I first saw this card, I thought it was 'discover' a spell, but this is significantly worse since you can't pick and there are quite a few dud Mage spells. Can also use it to fish for answers later in the game, so it retains relevance unlike a lot of early junk.
Overall: No one's messing with Jaina in her playground.
Paladin:
Nightbane Templar (Common): 3 mana, 2/1. Battlecry: If you're holding a dragon, summon two 1/1s.
It's bad. You don't hold dragons often enough to get the battlecry. Even with it it's not insane.
Silvermoon Portal (Common): 4 mana, spell. Give a minion +2/+2 and summon a random 2-cost minion.
Going with average. 4-mana is a crowded spot in Paladin where you want to playing Truesilver or Blessing of Kings, or elite 4-drops. This just isn't as good as BoK, nor is it even that close - you give up half the effect for a random 2-cost minion, many of which are straight up worse than an average 2-drop. And half the effect is a big deal - even if your minion can trade up with a 2/2 boost, it's less likely to hang around as a serious threat that doesn't die to a ping. From a more meta perspective, it lets Paladin do stuff it already does - buff minions - so it's even more incentive for opponents to play correctly and keep the board clean.
Ivory Knight (Rare): 6-mana, 4/4. Battlecry: Discover a spell. Restore HP to your hero equal to its cost.
Average. Gets you card advantage, but it's slow, and a 4/4 on 6 just isn't good enough to properly contest the board. Many Paladin spells are just not too good either - there's the secrets, then fluff like Anyfin Can Happen, before you get to your Consecrations. And a lot of the good spells buff your board, which you might not have after such a slow play.
Overall: Paladin got the short end of the stick this expansion. One common is bad, and the other does nothing new. Down we go.
Priest:
Purify (Common): 2-mana, spell. Silence a friendly minion. Draw a card.
Oh, Priest. Terrible.
Priest of the Feast (Common): 4 mana, 3/6. Whenever you cast a spell, restore 3HP to your hero.
Average. It's a fine vanilla minion, but 3 attack is a bit low to really contest bigger threats. If you have the board going into T4, it could be the card that leads to snowballs, but you're Priest, so yeah.
Onyx Bishop (Rare): 5 mana, 3/4. Battlecry: Summon a friendly minion that died this game.
Probably lower end of strong. The effect is good, but it's slow and value oriented. Priest doesn't have problems winning the long war as it is. But it will roll huge and win some games, and even when it misses it isn't going to be much worse than a Silver Hand Knight.
Overall: Time to start up #ArenaPriestsMatter.
Rogue:
Swashbuckler (Common): 1 mana, 1/1. Battlecry: Add a random class card (opponent's class) to your hand.
Strong card here. 1-mana cards are always artificially boosted in Rogue due to Combo, and getting a draw is good. Nothing crazy though - 1/1 for 1 is nothing to get excited about and the card's average value will only be above average at best, depending on the class. Expect to see it all the time.
Deadly Fork (Common): 3 mana, 3/2. Deathrattle: Add a 3/2 weapon to your hand.
I wrote out a big paragraph explaining why this card was insane, only to realise you need to pay 3 further mana to play the weapon. That puts it squarely in average territory. It's slow, going on slower, but it will eventually give some card advantage back.
Ethereal Peddler (Rare): 5 mana, 5/6. Your cards from other classes cost 2 less.
Godly. It's a Pit Fighter with massive synergy with Burgle, Undercity Huckster and Swashbuckler. Rogue already has no problems getting ahead in tempo most of the time; when this combines with strong pulls from the above cards things are going to get crazy real fast. It also has a massive bullseye on its back for that reason, but that can be used to a smart player's advantage.
Overall: Rogue gets one strong common and one potentially crazy rare that acts as another big dude for a class that traditionally lacked big dudes. Also gets a bit of a dud, so likely to stay where it is.
Shaman:
Wicked Witchdoctor (Common): 4 mana, 3/4. Whenever you cast a spell, summon a random basic totem.
Bad. Understatted and you need to follow up with spells to even try to catch up.
Spirit Claws (Common): 1-mana, 1/3 weapon. Has +2 attack while you have spell damage.
Forget the spell damage and this is a bone average card. Likely get value thanks to the prevalence of 1HP minions, but you also make playing other weapons awkward. Rare decks with good spell damage minions will see this get crazy value.
Maelstrom Portal (Rare): 2-mana, spell. Deal 1 damage to all enemy minions, summon a random 1-cost minion.
Strong. It's Arcane Explosion's big brother, and that's a decent card with so many tokens around as is. Very nice to have a Shaman AoE that doesn't overload so you can actually build a proper tempo edge. (With spell damage this is a 2-mana Consecration with upside, and will win games.)
Overall: I guess they want Shamans to draft more towards spell damage? At least there's no overload to deal with, but the two commons aren't exactly game changing.
Warlock:
Malchezaar's Imp (Common): 1-mana, 1/3. Whenever you discard a card, draw a card.
It's average, but it fits Warlock's Zoolock-esque game plan - get on the board and never lose it.
Kara Kazham! (Common): 5-mana, spell. Summon a 1/1, 2/2 and 3/3.
Would lean average here. It's a Silver Hand Knight with 3 bodies and the stats redistributed to compensate, but it's the 4/4 that does most of the work for SHK, and it's easy to see at least one or two of these dudes being brushed aside. Really pushes a Zoolock style approach, with cards like Sea Giant, Frostwolf Warrior et. al. that benefit from flooding.
Silverware Golem (Rare): 3-mana, 3/3. If you discard this minion, summon it.
Text is irrelevant almost always, so this is bone average.
Overall: Nothing to get excited or angry about. Both commons push Warlock to go more for taking the board, spreading wide and going for it, so meta changes will be important for the class.
Warrior:
Fool's Bane (Common): 5-mana, 3/4 weapon. Unlimited attacks each turn, but can't go face.
Clearly strong. You play it and hopefully clear the board in exchange for a chunk of HP/Armor. If Assassin's Blade's main drawback is that it's too slow, this card's only drawback is the face risk. You quickly gain card advantage and tempo, and in many matchups that will be enough to win the game. Definitely seems like a card that will have a big difference in performance between the best players and the average.
Ironforge Portal (Common): 5-mana, spell. Gain 4 Armor, summon a random 4-cost minion.
Bad. You pay 5 mana to get a below average 4 drop and the Armor isn't going to make up the value lost.
Protect the King! (Rare): 3-mana, spell. For each enemy minion, summon a 1/1 with Taunt.
Strange card. My immediate thought is bad. You usually won't see more than three minions on the board in Arena, and in those cases you're likely too far behind for this to matter. Too reactive.
Overall: Warrior gets one strong common and one poor one. There's enough here for the warrior specialists to work with, but nowhere close to enough for anyone else to jump in enthusiastically.
Neutrals:
Pompous Thespian (Common): 2-mana, 3/2, Taunt.
It's average. Occasionally the Taunt will come in handy, but mostly it just makes it more likely everyone curves out.
Zoobot (Common): 3-mana, 3/3. Battlecry: Give a random friendly Beast, Dragon and Murloc +1/+1.
Leaning strong. Beasts in particular are common, and Dragons and Murlocs aren't so rare you won't have 1 or 2 in your deck. But you need to have the board to get extra value, or play it after a small tribe card. Obviously better in Druid and Hunter, where it's probably a priority pick.
Netherspite Historian (Common): 2-mana, 1/3. Battlecry: If you're holding a dragon, discover a dragon.
It's bad. You don't hold dragons often enough to get the discover with any regularity, and if you don't hit it, it's a terrible card.
Runic Egg (Common): 1-mana, 0/2. Deathrattle: Draw a card.
Terrible. It's for constructed. You're paying a mana and a card to drop a useless body on the board that will die hopelessly and set you behind. Might be better than absolute trash in Rogue, but otherwise won't be played.
Pantry Spider (Common): 3-mana, 1/3, Beast. Battlecry: summon a 1/3 Spider.
Bad. It's technically 2/6 on turn three, but one half of it dies hopelessly against anything you're likely to see on turn 3, while the other half limps on. Good to play on T3 ahead of Houndmaster in Hunter though.
Arcane Anomaly (Common): 1-mana, 2/1. Whenever you cast a spell, it gains 1HP.
First thought was bad, but on reflection going average. There's enough low cost spells in the game that I can see it squeaking out some value with Coin -> Journey Below or Coin -> Innervate type plays. Generally though, vanilla 2/1 is just not good enough (see Murloc Raider).
Menagerie Magician (Common): 5-mana, 4/4, give a random friendly Beast, Dragon and Murloc +2/+2.
Difficult card to rank, because it should really only be drafted when you have the synergy set up - without the effect it is plain bad. But with even one activation, it's strong. At 5-mana though, it's not going to be easy to play it with another minion, so you'll need to have the board for it to be useful, and people should know to keep tribes off the board in the new expansion thanks to this kind of card. Going strong, especially in Druid and Hunter.
Arcanosmith (Common): 4-mana, 3/2. Battlecry: Summon a 0/5 Taunt.
Bad. Shieldbearer isn't worth it at 1 mana, so paying 2 mana for an extra HP doesn't strike me as especially appealing. I'm sure people will persevere though and try to get Blessing of Kings (or equivalent) off on the 0/5 Taunt, and it'll come off occasionally.
Violet Illusionist (Common): 3-mana, 4/3. On your turn, your hero is immune.
In non-weapon/Warlock classes, it's a perfectly above average 3-drop. But where you can get value from the text it's going to be much stronger than people expect - consider hacking through a high attack minion with your face as Rogue or Warrior, or dropping an otherwise unplayable Flame Imp in Warlock. Strong in those classes.
Book Wyrm (Rare): 6-mana, 3/6. Battlecry: If you're holding a dragon, destroy an enemy minion with 3 or less attack.
Reminds me of Blackwing Corruptor, but with less useful stats. With dragons being as rare as they are, I'm edging bad - the stats aren't good for a 5-drop, never mind a 6, so you need the battlecry. Definitely a strong pick with enough dragons though.
Avian Watcher (Rare): 5-mana, 3/6. Battlecry: if you control a secret, gain +1/+1 and Taunt.
Average. You don't control secrets near often enough to make the battlecry likely, and without it it's Fen Creeper with no Taunt, which isn't good. Even with it, it's not a huge deal.
Moat Lurker (Rare): 6-mana, 3/3. Battlecry: Destroy a minion. Deathrattle: Resummon it.
Going with bad. You pay a massive price for the effect, which is rarely going to be worth it. If you're a super-aggro deck maybe you can use it to end the game, but otherwise they just kill your 3/3 for 6 and get their minion back. You can be cute and trigger your own deathrattle with it, which might get value occasionally, but isn't a reliable play.
Arcane Giant (Epic): 12-mana, 8/8. Costs 1 less for each spell you've cast this game.
Bad. You need to cast 4+ spells to make this remotely worth it. You'll know if you have the rare deck where this might be worth it, but they will be very rare.
Barnes (Legendary): 4-mana, 3/4. Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 copy of a random minion in your deck.
Chances are your random minion doesn't have exciting text in Arena. So I'd go with bad.
The Curator (Legendary): 7-mana. 4/6, Mech. Taunt. Battlecry: Draw a Beast, Murloc and Dragon from your deck.
That's some serious card advantage if you have good cards from all three tribes. Even just two and it's likely better than old Ancient of Lore. Going with strong, but with the proviso that you need to actually have some good cards from those tribes in your deck.
Moroes (Legendary): 3-mana, 1/1. At the end of your turn, summon a 1/1.
Gut reaction is bad. 3-mana for two 1/1s is awful. Even if it lives two turns you'd struggle to make up the tempo loss. But in decks that can do wonders with tokens it might be worth it. Usually bad.
Prince Malchezaar (Legendary): 5-mana, 5/6, Demon. At the start of the game, add 5 Legendary minions to your deck.
Strong. It's a Pit Fighter with upside, and a tribe that makes it even better in Warlocks. 5 Legendaries might contain some rubbish, but the average Legendary is a perfectly playable card and several of them are crazy, and having 35 cards can matter, especially in Warlock.
Medivh, the Guardian (Legendary): 8-mana, 7/7. Battlecry: Equip Atiesh (1/3, when you cast a spell, summon a random minion of that cost. Lose one durability).
Going with strong. If you don't have a spell it's an overcosted War Golem, which isn't good, but is still a card, and the weapon might help out a little. But where you can follow up with big spells this card is going to dominate the late game. Somewhere a Priest is going to desperately salvage a game with Medivh -> Mind Control.
Overall ratings (excludes the Epic and the 5 Legendaries):
Godly: 2/39 (Firelands Portal, Ethereal Peddler)
Strong: 12/39 (Enchanted Raven, Menagerie Warden, Moonlands Portal, Kindly Grandmother, Cloaked Huntress, Onyx Bishop, Swashbuckler, Maelstrom Portal, Fool's Bane, Menagerie Magician, Zoobot, Violet Illusionist)
Average: 13/39 (Medivh's Valet, Babbling Book, Silvermoon Portal, Ivory Knight, Priest of the Feast, Deadly Fork, Spirit Claws, Malchazaar's Imp, Silverware Golem, Kara Kazham!, Pompous Thespian, Arcane Anomaly, Avian Watcher)
Bad: 10/39 (Cat Trick, Nightbane Templar, Wicked Witchdoctor, Ironforge Portal, Protect the King!, Netherspite Historian, Pantry Spider, Arcanosmith, Book Wyrm, Moat Lurker)
Terrible: 2/39 (Purify, Runic Egg)
Druid:
Enchanted Raven (Common): 1 mana, 2/2, Beast.
It's strong. Druid can contest the early game significantly better with a common class card like this. It trades with 3/2s and your hero power protects it from 2/1s. Beast synergy gives it late game relevance which 1-mana cards usually lack - consider potential turn 6 Enchanted Raven -> Druid of the Fang plays. I don't think it'll be super insane and turn Druid into an elite class though.
Menagerie Warden (Common): 6-mana, 5/5, Battlecry: Choose a friendly Beast, summon a copy.
Going with strong. You only pay 1-mana for the battlecry (a vanilla 5/5 for 5 is fine), and it's potentially game-winning. You'd definitely rather draft it in decks where you already have Beasts and have a fairly low curve, but Druid already has a ton of Beasts to pick from and it's curve will get lower in this adventure. I particularly like the thought of T5 Stranglethorn Tiger -> T6 Menagerie Warden, meet my three 5/5s. It's also the kind of card that will wreck games in the first week until people start playing around it, like Murloc Knight once did.
Moonlands Portal (Rare): 6-mana spell, Restore 6 health, summon a random 6-cost minion.
Strange card, but I'm going with strong. A random 6-cost minion is likely to be pretty good according to the spreadsheets - apart from Corrupted Seer there are very few truly awful outcomes, so you're likely giving up 1-mana to heal for 6. You could use that on your face against an aggro deck, but more likely you heal your Druid of the Claw or Druid of the Fang and start to get way ahead on the board. Flexibility is a big deal in Arena, and that's what carries this card into the strong tier I think.
Overall: Druid's moving up in the world. It's going to be more likely to take the board in the early game and if it gets to turn 6 with a board, expect it to race ahead. On the other hand, it still lacks the endless removal of Mage and the crazy tempo plays Rogue can pull off, so I see it placing 3rd at best when everything shakes out.
Hunter:
Kindly Grandmother (Common): 2 mana, 1/1 Beast, Deathrattle: summon a 3/2 Beast.
Think a lot of people are overshooting this a tad, but still strong. It gives Hunter more Beasts on the board, which is crucial, but it is a bit on the slow side. The opponent can choose to ignore it if they can't deal with the 3/2 and risk the potential Houndmaster. It also matters that unlike Haunted Creeper the first form dies to a ping, which gives Rogue and Mage more potential ways to clear it. Still, board presence is crucial for Hunter, and it will rightly be drafted often.
Cloaked Huntress (Common): 3 mana, 3/4. Your secrets cost 0.
It's strong with no text. You don't draft too many secrets in Arena, but maybe with this as a Hunter common you start to prioritise them. I'd consider it better than Kirin Tor as you'd normally rather have a 3/4 than a 4/3 on turn 3, and as a common your odds of drafting it to follow up an early Freezing Trap, say, are quite high.
Cat Trick (Rare): 2 mana, secret. When your opponent casts a spell, summon a 4/2 Panther with stealth.
Kind of a new mechanic, but I think it's bad in Arena. You get a 1-mana discount on a normal Jungle Panther, but you don't control when, if ever, you'll get it out.
Overall: Good boost to Hunter's early game, with a sticky 2-drop and a strong 3-drop, but not enough to move them up much.
Mage:
Firelands Portal (Common): 7 mana, spell. Deal 5 damage, summon a random 5-cost minion.
Going with a Godly here. 7-mana's a fair commitment, but for your money you get a strong removal that also summons a likely decent minion. It's essentially a built in 2 for 1 that doesn't cost you much, if any, tempo. Can also be used for extra reach, which Mage already has a ton of. The subtle effect of this card is to put even more pressure on opponents going into T7 - they have to decide which, both, or neither of Firelands Portal and Flamestrike to play around. The big thing is that if they play into a Firelands, they completely lose tempo - it kills their minion and establishes a board. Get ready to see this all the time.
Medivh's Valet (Common): 2 mana, 3/2. Battlecry: If you control a secret, deal 3 damage.
Higher end of average. You'll draft it, but you'll never be excited about it. Well, unless you live the dream, which might not be as rarely as you'd think. Hmm.
Babbling Book (Rare): 1 mana, 1/1, Battlecry: Add a random Mage spell to your hand.
Going with average. 1-mana 1/1s aren't anything special, but backed up with the threat of a ping on turn 2 they become more effective, and there are a lot of strong Mage spells. When I first saw this card, I thought it was 'discover' a spell, but this is significantly worse since you can't pick and there are quite a few dud Mage spells. Can also use it to fish for answers later in the game, so it retains relevance unlike a lot of early junk.
Overall: No one's messing with Jaina in her playground.
Paladin:
Nightbane Templar (Common): 3 mana, 2/1. Battlecry: If you're holding a dragon, summon two 1/1s.
It's bad. You don't hold dragons often enough to get the battlecry. Even with it it's not insane.
Silvermoon Portal (Common): 4 mana, spell. Give a minion +2/+2 and summon a random 2-cost minion.
Going with average. 4-mana is a crowded spot in Paladin where you want to playing Truesilver or Blessing of Kings, or elite 4-drops. This just isn't as good as BoK, nor is it even that close - you give up half the effect for a random 2-cost minion, many of which are straight up worse than an average 2-drop. And half the effect is a big deal - even if your minion can trade up with a 2/2 boost, it's less likely to hang around as a serious threat that doesn't die to a ping. From a more meta perspective, it lets Paladin do stuff it already does - buff minions - so it's even more incentive for opponents to play correctly and keep the board clean.
Ivory Knight (Rare): 6-mana, 4/4. Battlecry: Discover a spell. Restore HP to your hero equal to its cost.
Average. Gets you card advantage, but it's slow, and a 4/4 on 6 just isn't good enough to properly contest the board. Many Paladin spells are just not too good either - there's the secrets, then fluff like Anyfin Can Happen, before you get to your Consecrations. And a lot of the good spells buff your board, which you might not have after such a slow play.
Overall: Paladin got the short end of the stick this expansion. One common is bad, and the other does nothing new. Down we go.
Priest:
Purify (Common): 2-mana, spell. Silence a friendly minion. Draw a card.
Oh, Priest. Terrible.
Priest of the Feast (Common): 4 mana, 3/6. Whenever you cast a spell, restore 3HP to your hero.
Average. It's a fine vanilla minion, but 3 attack is a bit low to really contest bigger threats. If you have the board going into T4, it could be the card that leads to snowballs, but you're Priest, so yeah.
Onyx Bishop (Rare): 5 mana, 3/4. Battlecry: Summon a friendly minion that died this game.
Probably lower end of strong. The effect is good, but it's slow and value oriented. Priest doesn't have problems winning the long war as it is. But it will roll huge and win some games, and even when it misses it isn't going to be much worse than a Silver Hand Knight.
Overall: Time to start up #ArenaPriestsMatter.
Rogue:
Swashbuckler (Common): 1 mana, 1/1. Battlecry: Add a random class card (opponent's class) to your hand.
Strong card here. 1-mana cards are always artificially boosted in Rogue due to Combo, and getting a draw is good. Nothing crazy though - 1/1 for 1 is nothing to get excited about and the card's average value will only be above average at best, depending on the class. Expect to see it all the time.
Deadly Fork (Common): 3 mana, 3/2. Deathrattle: Add a 3/2 weapon to your hand.
I wrote out a big paragraph explaining why this card was insane, only to realise you need to pay 3 further mana to play the weapon. That puts it squarely in average territory. It's slow, going on slower, but it will eventually give some card advantage back.
Ethereal Peddler (Rare): 5 mana, 5/6. Your cards from other classes cost 2 less.
Godly. It's a Pit Fighter with massive synergy with Burgle, Undercity Huckster and Swashbuckler. Rogue already has no problems getting ahead in tempo most of the time; when this combines with strong pulls from the above cards things are going to get crazy real fast. It also has a massive bullseye on its back for that reason, but that can be used to a smart player's advantage.
Overall: Rogue gets one strong common and one potentially crazy rare that acts as another big dude for a class that traditionally lacked big dudes. Also gets a bit of a dud, so likely to stay where it is.
Shaman:
Wicked Witchdoctor (Common): 4 mana, 3/4. Whenever you cast a spell, summon a random basic totem.
Bad. Understatted and you need to follow up with spells to even try to catch up.
Spirit Claws (Common): 1-mana, 1/3 weapon. Has +2 attack while you have spell damage.
Forget the spell damage and this is a bone average card. Likely get value thanks to the prevalence of 1HP minions, but you also make playing other weapons awkward. Rare decks with good spell damage minions will see this get crazy value.
Maelstrom Portal (Rare): 2-mana, spell. Deal 1 damage to all enemy minions, summon a random 1-cost minion.
Strong. It's Arcane Explosion's big brother, and that's a decent card with so many tokens around as is. Very nice to have a Shaman AoE that doesn't overload so you can actually build a proper tempo edge. (With spell damage this is a 2-mana Consecration with upside, and will win games.)
Overall: I guess they want Shamans to draft more towards spell damage? At least there's no overload to deal with, but the two commons aren't exactly game changing.
Warlock:
Malchezaar's Imp (Common): 1-mana, 1/3. Whenever you discard a card, draw a card.
It's average, but it fits Warlock's Zoolock-esque game plan - get on the board and never lose it.
Kara Kazham! (Common): 5-mana, spell. Summon a 1/1, 2/2 and 3/3.
Would lean average here. It's a Silver Hand Knight with 3 bodies and the stats redistributed to compensate, but it's the 4/4 that does most of the work for SHK, and it's easy to see at least one or two of these dudes being brushed aside. Really pushes a Zoolock style approach, with cards like Sea Giant, Frostwolf Warrior et. al. that benefit from flooding.
Silverware Golem (Rare): 3-mana, 3/3. If you discard this minion, summon it.
Text is irrelevant almost always, so this is bone average.
Overall: Nothing to get excited or angry about. Both commons push Warlock to go more for taking the board, spreading wide and going for it, so meta changes will be important for the class.
Warrior:
Fool's Bane (Common): 5-mana, 3/4 weapon. Unlimited attacks each turn, but can't go face.
Clearly strong. You play it and hopefully clear the board in exchange for a chunk of HP/Armor. If Assassin's Blade's main drawback is that it's too slow, this card's only drawback is the face risk. You quickly gain card advantage and tempo, and in many matchups that will be enough to win the game. Definitely seems like a card that will have a big difference in performance between the best players and the average.
Ironforge Portal (Common): 5-mana, spell. Gain 4 Armor, summon a random 4-cost minion.
Bad. You pay 5 mana to get a below average 4 drop and the Armor isn't going to make up the value lost.
Protect the King! (Rare): 3-mana, spell. For each enemy minion, summon a 1/1 with Taunt.
Strange card. My immediate thought is bad. You usually won't see more than three minions on the board in Arena, and in those cases you're likely too far behind for this to matter. Too reactive.
Overall: Warrior gets one strong common and one poor one. There's enough here for the warrior specialists to work with, but nowhere close to enough for anyone else to jump in enthusiastically.
Neutrals:
Pompous Thespian (Common): 2-mana, 3/2, Taunt.
It's average. Occasionally the Taunt will come in handy, but mostly it just makes it more likely everyone curves out.
Zoobot (Common): 3-mana, 3/3. Battlecry: Give a random friendly Beast, Dragon and Murloc +1/+1.
Leaning strong. Beasts in particular are common, and Dragons and Murlocs aren't so rare you won't have 1 or 2 in your deck. But you need to have the board to get extra value, or play it after a small tribe card. Obviously better in Druid and Hunter, where it's probably a priority pick.
Netherspite Historian (Common): 2-mana, 1/3. Battlecry: If you're holding a dragon, discover a dragon.
It's bad. You don't hold dragons often enough to get the discover with any regularity, and if you don't hit it, it's a terrible card.
Runic Egg (Common): 1-mana, 0/2. Deathrattle: Draw a card.
Terrible. It's for constructed. You're paying a mana and a card to drop a useless body on the board that will die hopelessly and set you behind. Might be better than absolute trash in Rogue, but otherwise won't be played.
Pantry Spider (Common): 3-mana, 1/3, Beast. Battlecry: summon a 1/3 Spider.
Bad. It's technically 2/6 on turn three, but one half of it dies hopelessly against anything you're likely to see on turn 3, while the other half limps on. Good to play on T3 ahead of Houndmaster in Hunter though.
Arcane Anomaly (Common): 1-mana, 2/1. Whenever you cast a spell, it gains 1HP.
First thought was bad, but on reflection going average. There's enough low cost spells in the game that I can see it squeaking out some value with Coin -> Journey Below or Coin -> Innervate type plays. Generally though, vanilla 2/1 is just not good enough (see Murloc Raider).
Menagerie Magician (Common): 5-mana, 4/4, give a random friendly Beast, Dragon and Murloc +2/+2.
Difficult card to rank, because it should really only be drafted when you have the synergy set up - without the effect it is plain bad. But with even one activation, it's strong. At 5-mana though, it's not going to be easy to play it with another minion, so you'll need to have the board for it to be useful, and people should know to keep tribes off the board in the new expansion thanks to this kind of card. Going strong, especially in Druid and Hunter.
Arcanosmith (Common): 4-mana, 3/2. Battlecry: Summon a 0/5 Taunt.
Bad. Shieldbearer isn't worth it at 1 mana, so paying 2 mana for an extra HP doesn't strike me as especially appealing. I'm sure people will persevere though and try to get Blessing of Kings (or equivalent) off on the 0/5 Taunt, and it'll come off occasionally.
Violet Illusionist (Common): 3-mana, 4/3. On your turn, your hero is immune.
In non-weapon/Warlock classes, it's a perfectly above average 3-drop. But where you can get value from the text it's going to be much stronger than people expect - consider hacking through a high attack minion with your face as Rogue or Warrior, or dropping an otherwise unplayable Flame Imp in Warlock. Strong in those classes.
Book Wyrm (Rare): 6-mana, 3/6. Battlecry: If you're holding a dragon, destroy an enemy minion with 3 or less attack.
Reminds me of Blackwing Corruptor, but with less useful stats. With dragons being as rare as they are, I'm edging bad - the stats aren't good for a 5-drop, never mind a 6, so you need the battlecry. Definitely a strong pick with enough dragons though.
Avian Watcher (Rare): 5-mana, 3/6. Battlecry: if you control a secret, gain +1/+1 and Taunt.
Average. You don't control secrets near often enough to make the battlecry likely, and without it it's Fen Creeper with no Taunt, which isn't good. Even with it, it's not a huge deal.
Moat Lurker (Rare): 6-mana, 3/3. Battlecry: Destroy a minion. Deathrattle: Resummon it.
Going with bad. You pay a massive price for the effect, which is rarely going to be worth it. If you're a super-aggro deck maybe you can use it to end the game, but otherwise they just kill your 3/3 for 6 and get their minion back. You can be cute and trigger your own deathrattle with it, which might get value occasionally, but isn't a reliable play.
Arcane Giant (Epic): 12-mana, 8/8. Costs 1 less for each spell you've cast this game.
Bad. You need to cast 4+ spells to make this remotely worth it. You'll know if you have the rare deck where this might be worth it, but they will be very rare.
Barnes (Legendary): 4-mana, 3/4. Battlecry: Summon a 1/1 copy of a random minion in your deck.
Chances are your random minion doesn't have exciting text in Arena. So I'd go with bad.
The Curator (Legendary): 7-mana. 4/6, Mech. Taunt. Battlecry: Draw a Beast, Murloc and Dragon from your deck.
That's some serious card advantage if you have good cards from all three tribes. Even just two and it's likely better than old Ancient of Lore. Going with strong, but with the proviso that you need to actually have some good cards from those tribes in your deck.
Moroes (Legendary): 3-mana, 1/1. At the end of your turn, summon a 1/1.
Gut reaction is bad. 3-mana for two 1/1s is awful. Even if it lives two turns you'd struggle to make up the tempo loss. But in decks that can do wonders with tokens it might be worth it. Usually bad.
Prince Malchezaar (Legendary): 5-mana, 5/6, Demon. At the start of the game, add 5 Legendary minions to your deck.
Strong. It's a Pit Fighter with upside, and a tribe that makes it even better in Warlocks. 5 Legendaries might contain some rubbish, but the average Legendary is a perfectly playable card and several of them are crazy, and having 35 cards can matter, especially in Warlock.
Medivh, the Guardian (Legendary): 8-mana, 7/7. Battlecry: Equip Atiesh (1/3, when you cast a spell, summon a random minion of that cost. Lose one durability).
Going with strong. If you don't have a spell it's an overcosted War Golem, which isn't good, but is still a card, and the weapon might help out a little. But where you can follow up with big spells this card is going to dominate the late game. Somewhere a Priest is going to desperately salvage a game with Medivh -> Mind Control.
Overall ratings (excludes the Epic and the 5 Legendaries):
Godly: 2/39 (Firelands Portal, Ethereal Peddler)
Strong: 12/39 (Enchanted Raven, Menagerie Warden, Moonlands Portal, Kindly Grandmother, Cloaked Huntress, Onyx Bishop, Swashbuckler, Maelstrom Portal, Fool's Bane, Menagerie Magician, Zoobot, Violet Illusionist)
Average: 13/39 (Medivh's Valet, Babbling Book, Silvermoon Portal, Ivory Knight, Priest of the Feast, Deadly Fork, Spirit Claws, Malchazaar's Imp, Silverware Golem, Kara Kazham!, Pompous Thespian, Arcane Anomaly, Avian Watcher)
Bad: 10/39 (Cat Trick, Nightbane Templar, Wicked Witchdoctor, Ironforge Portal, Protect the King!, Netherspite Historian, Pantry Spider, Arcanosmith, Book Wyrm, Moat Lurker)
Terrible: 2/39 (Purify, Runic Egg)
Kotetsu, re: this analysis:
Ethereal Peddler (Rare): 5 mana, 5/6. Your cards from other classes cost 2 less.
Godly. It's a Pit Fighter with massive synergy with Burgle, Undercity Huckster and Swashbuckler. Rogue already has no problems getting ahead in tempo most of the time; when this combines with strong pulls from the above cards things are going to get crazy real fast. It also has a massive bullseye on its back for that reason, but that can be used to a smart player's advantage.
- the minus-2 cost effect is a battlecry, not an aura. That wouldn't mean if has a bullseye on its back, right? It'd be like killing Dr. Boom - the bots are already out. Can't silence that effect.
Ethereal Peddler (Rare): 5 mana, 5/6. Your cards from other classes cost 2 less.
Godly. It's a Pit Fighter with massive synergy with Burgle, Undercity Huckster and Swashbuckler. Rogue already has no problems getting ahead in tempo most of the time; when this combines with strong pulls from the above cards things are going to get crazy real fast. It also has a massive bullseye on its back for that reason, but that can be used to a smart player's advantage.
- the minus-2 cost effect is a battlecry, not an aura. That wouldn't mean if has a bullseye on its back, right? It'd be like killing Dr. Boom - the bots are already out. Can't silence that effect.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Tryhard Tournament Competitive:
Menagerie Warden (Beast Druid)
Enchanted Raven (Beast Druid)
Kindly Grandmother (Midrange Hunter)
Firelands Portal (Tempo Mage)
Barnes (Token Druid)
Curator (Control Warrior, C'thun Warrior, C'thun Druid)
Casual Ladder Competitive:
Silverware Guardian (Discard Zoo Warlock)
Malchezaar's Imp (Discard Zoo Warlock)
Kara Kazham (Renolock)
Fool's Bane (Control Warrior, C'thun Warrior)
Ironforge Portal (Control Warrior, C'thun Warrior)
Moonglade Portal (C'thun Druid)
Cloaked Huntress (Yogg 'n load Hunter, Midrange Hunter)
Deadly Fork (N'Zoth Rogue, Miracle Rogue)
Ivory Knight (N'Zoth Palidan)
Nightbane Templar (Dragon Palidan)
Netherspite Historian (Dragon Priest, Dragon Palidan)
Bookwyrm (Dragon Priest, Dragon Palidan)
Onyx Bishop (Control Priest)
Priest of the Feast (Control Priest)
Prince Malchezaar (Control Warrior, Control Priest)
Medhev the Guardian (Token Druid, Yogg Mage, Control Priest)
So by my count, 6 tournament viable cards, 16 ladder viable cards, and 18 garbage cards. And that's assuming Beast Druid is a thing, which is still unknown at this point.
Menagerie Warden (Beast Druid)
Enchanted Raven (Beast Druid)
Kindly Grandmother (Midrange Hunter)
Firelands Portal (Tempo Mage)
Barnes (Token Druid)
Curator (Control Warrior, C'thun Warrior, C'thun Druid)
Casual Ladder Competitive:
Silverware Guardian (Discard Zoo Warlock)
Malchezaar's Imp (Discard Zoo Warlock)
Kara Kazham (Renolock)
Fool's Bane (Control Warrior, C'thun Warrior)
Ironforge Portal (Control Warrior, C'thun Warrior)
Moonglade Portal (C'thun Druid)
Cloaked Huntress (Yogg 'n load Hunter, Midrange Hunter)
Deadly Fork (N'Zoth Rogue, Miracle Rogue)
Ivory Knight (N'Zoth Palidan)
Nightbane Templar (Dragon Palidan)
Netherspite Historian (Dragon Priest, Dragon Palidan)
Bookwyrm (Dragon Priest, Dragon Palidan)
Onyx Bishop (Control Priest)
Priest of the Feast (Control Priest)
Prince Malchezaar (Control Warrior, Control Priest)
Medhev the Guardian (Token Druid, Yogg Mage, Control Priest)
So by my count, 6 tournament viable cards, 16 ladder viable cards, and 18 garbage cards. And that's assuming Beast Druid is a thing, which is still unknown at this point.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'd be really surprised to see deadly fork make it into miracle rogue lists.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I was on the fence about including it. I'll leave it there for now, as early game help and a little extra endgame face damage, but I don't know what it'd replace right now.
I think people are seriously underestimating Barnes.
In the worst case you get yeti stats,but in the best case you get something really insane, like tirion in paladin or highmane in hunter.
Personailly I will try to make him work ina ramp druid deck. Probably not the best use of the card, but it could be fun.
In the worst case you get yeti stats,but in the best case you get something really insane, like tirion in paladin or highmane in hunter.
Personailly I will try to make him work ina ramp druid deck. Probably not the best use of the card, but it could be fun.
Last time I checked Zoo deck these days usually play 1 soul fire and 0 doomgaurds, so it depends on if the new dicard support is good enoguh to bring them back.
There's two popular lists where the other still plays 2 doomguard. Not sure which one is more popular.
I think you just play the Silverware Golem in standard zoo with soulfire and doomguard, no need to play this too, its will already brokeback
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I looked at it more as a potential tech card against certain matchups.
I agree it is way overrated.
I'll try it in tempo warrior because that deck don't had 5 drop at all, will try the 3 drop that made you immune too
at 1 game out 100 I'll slay deathwing with that weapon and that will glorious moment
most reviewer think its not gonna played at all, appropiate deck for it like 4th most popular warrior deck out there
but people of course gonna react to thing like weapon not worth getting from malkorok, yeah that BS too
at 1 game out 100 I'll slay deathwing with that weapon and that will glorious moment
most reviewer think its not gonna played at all, appropiate deck for it like 4th most popular warrior deck out there
but people of course gonna react to thing like weapon not worth getting from malkorok, yeah that BS too
I'd be a lot happier getting Fool's Bane than freakin' Spirit Claws.
There will be situations where Fool's Bane is the worst possible pick up, when all you need to do is push just a bit more face damage (I did post a picture here right after Old Gods was released where I was able to get Lethal with Cursed Blade, and I would have lost the game with Fool's Bane if that had been a thing back then)
But I think *overall* Fool's Bane will be a pretty good pick-up from Malkorok, since Fool's Bane is best in the kinds of decks that Malkorok is run in.
It'll certainly be better more often than Spirit Claws is. (Unless, of course, you're one damage off of lethal, than Spirit Reaver is better.)
Most good results from Fool's Bane rely on a two card combo--mid to late game you really want to be killing 4 health minions, so you need a ghoul or a revenge. You really don't want to be trading 20 health to remove two 5/4s.
That immunity minion seems good but there's little chance it'll stick, so now you're running two cards you don't want to play until turn 8, at which point you're probably pretty far behind since you've been carrying two dead cards all game.
It's a five mana weapon that isn't great on curve. Seems slow (but usable) for Tempo/Midrange Warriors and it's completely useless in Control Warrior. Brawl is just better. Gorehowl is just better. Why wouldn't I just run Corrupted Seer if my deck needs to do a mediocre amount of damage to multiple minions?
People keep imagining these best case scenarios where Fool's Bane is OP, but if you're going to do that, there's also game-states where Tentacles for Arms is the best card in the game. No one runs that because "the dream" is just unrealistic.
This card is better than Tentacles but it's still not a great card.
Fools Bane has potential.
If any deck can make this weapon work, it's control warrior, but like I said before, it might be worse than gorehowl in most cases.
I really can't tell how good this weapon is going to be.
I also thing Arcnasmith could be good, even though it's unlikly
Playing him on courve in zoo for instance can be really annyoing since he can protect your councilman and other cards.
It might also work in slower decks since a 0/5 is kind of like healing of 5 plus overkill, so it's a bit like a 4 mana healbot, but the viablibtly of this is even more questionable than my first one.
I wouldn't be supsired if the card gets never played in anything, but it could be a sleeper hit.
If any deck can make this weapon work, it's control warrior, but like I said before, it might be worse than gorehowl in most cases.
I really can't tell how good this weapon is going to be.
I also thing Arcnasmith could be good, even though it's unlikly
Playing him on courve in zoo for instance can be really annyoing since he can protect your councilman and other cards.
It might also work in slower decks since a 0/5 is kind of like healing of 5 plus overkill, so it's a bit like a 4 mana healbot, but the viablibtly of this is even more questionable than my first one.
I wouldn't be supsired if the card gets never played in anything, but it could be a sleeper hit.
Silverware is RNG doe. Imp gives you guaranteed value (sometimes golem does too if it's the only card in your hand).
I think better zoo lists still will favor curve consistency over high roll discard cards. What will happen is that argent squire is replaced by the imp, and they play 2 soulfire and 2 doomguards. I don't think you play anything else, maybe one golem tops. Decks used to run one void terror, it's a similar situational card. What I think could happen is that now that there are enough good demons in the deck, they might play demon fire. That card is quite alright.
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