My point is that they get yet another 4 mana card while they have the worst 2 and 3 mana class cards in the game.
Even Musseum Curator is somehow weaker compared to the other 2 mana pseudo draw minions.
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Even Musseum Curator is somehow weaker compared to the other 2 mana pseudo draw minions.
I don't really think they have put out very many cards that fit well into the current Zoolock deck.
Zoobot would not see play in that deck as it runs nearly none of those tribes (Dire Wolf Alpha is about the only one I can think of), Kara Khazam is not playable in that deck either despite generating 3 bodies, Menagerie Magician is out for the same reason as Zoobot. Arcane Anomaly seems like it wouldn't fit much since there aren't many spells. Silverware Golem and Malchezaar's Imp are the only candidates really.
The Imp would be a power downgrade from Flame Imp, IMO. But the deck might just run it becase its 1 mana and 1/3 is premium stats for 1 mana. The golem is bad on curve 3/3 for 3 isn't the stats you want. To play it for free you have to include more than just Doomguard and Soulfire, maybe the 3/2 that discards and draws, but again that card is kinda meh already and all of it reduces consistency. Unclear to me if that is worth it, it would need some testing.
I'm happy they are pushing some kind of discard theme in a way that will make it playable, since at least that is something new.
Super Nothing
Member
Not really. That might prevent Moroes from dying to basically everything, but the card is still slow as fuck. The original body is going to have to hide out in stealth and generate 1/1s for a long time before the card pays off. And Priest has no way to buff tokens outside of neutral minion buff cards and Power word: Shield, which doesn't help them trade. It just doesn't fit any of Priest's abilities better than it fits Druid, Warlock (although Zoo is largely made up of neutral cards), Shaman, or Paladin, and I don't see Moroes getting played by any of those classes either. Moroes is bottom tier junk.
I wouldn't call 2 mana 1/2 "Choose One: Add Sylvanas or Cairne to your hand" exactly weak. It just isn't a good tempo play and you need those in this meta.
His stats are weak compared to Dark Peddler and Undercity Husker, 2 very similar cards.
You could argue his effect is stronger than the effect of these cards, but I don't think that giving one of the worst class in the game a slightly stronger card is a big deal.
irfaanator
Banned
he was good when you could buff him w/ velens on t3, but yea now he's too slow for this meta.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm not talking about zoobot. I am talking about the warlock class cards. Imp and plates may seem like they're harmless, but the potential is there and it's only going to make a tier 1 deck better.
I'm personally more worried about all the Secrets synergy. I really don't want to have to run that awful 2/4 but I also really don't want to face a bunch of Secrets Mages either.
Really do hope that next card set will bring even a slight justification why Blizzard did 'print' card like Purify. And perhaps even bring Priest back to tier 2 at least.
Also, how much in advance does HS team come up with the cards for sets, as if this set was basically set in stone before Old Gods arrived, then they probably did not foresee the metachanges and how bad Priest got.
Also, how much in advance does HS team come up with the cards for sets, as if this set was basically set in stone before Old Gods arrived, then they probably did not foresee the metachanges and how bad Priest got.
Many people,myself included, are unconvinced of the playability of discard lock.
Zoolock already has 2 godlike 3 mana cards and silverware golem isn't nearly has consitently good as these cards.
It's possible that the upside of the card are so good that he is worth playing regardless, but only time can tell.
Zoolock already has 2 godlike 3 mana cards and silverware golem isn't nearly has consitently good as these cards.
It's possible that the upside of the card are so good that he is worth playing regardless, but only time can tell.
I'm personally more worried about all the Secrets synergy. I really don't want to have to run that awful 2/4 but I also really don't want to face a bunch of Secrets Mages either.
I might just be odd but I would prefer secrets over spells that do something immediately. I wish we had more of them. Every class should have "secrets".
I prefer spells that you invest in now to do something later especially if they do something during your opponents turn.
Things like curse of raffam and gang up and wild growth should be more plentiful. Down with the fireballs and power overwhelmings.
I think the 1/3 that draws a card if you discard one, Malchezaar's Imp, will replace Argent Squire in Zoo. Not a bad body and the upside if it procs is high, but you aren't running a card with bad stats that screws you if you don't get the effect.
The Silverware Golem I think is too RNG dependent in normal Zoo, and I'm not convinced going full DiscardLock is going to be viable.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Malchezaar's Imp is probably my biggest unknown. Wouldn't be surprised if it's meta defining or so bad you eventually don't even see it in niche decks. At the moment I'm valuing Malchezaar's Imp as being in between ladder viable and tournament viable.
It's just hard to tell how often you can get the various combos off successfully in a strong enough way, or if you're just making your deck worse most of the time while waiting for the dream combo that almost never happens. It's very much like reviewing Mysterious Challenger pre-release. The dream scenario is clearly very good, but is it good enough to weaken your deck, and how much weaker will the rest of your overall deck have to be?
It's hard to even tell which version of Discard lock will be best. Do you just search the word discard and add almost all of them, or do you only include Malchezaar's Imp + Soulfire + Doomguard?
It's just hard to tell how often you can get the various combos off successfully in a strong enough way, or if you're just making your deck worse most of the time while waiting for the dream combo that almost never happens. It's very much like reviewing Mysterious Challenger pre-release. The dream scenario is clearly very good, but is it good enough to weaken your deck, and how much weaker will the rest of your overall deck have to be?
It's hard to even tell which version of Discard lock will be best. Do you just search the word discard and add almost all of them, or do you only include Malchezaar's Imp + Soulfire + Doomguard?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think worst case scenario for silver plates is that you play a 3/3 for 3. For a high roll card, that downside is really not large. I'm not convinced it definitely makes the cut. But it already fits with soulfire and doomguard, and then the imp might push it over the edge. You might draw card, play a 3/3, while making a huge tempo gain from soulfire or doomguard. All of these cards are separately workable cards, with a 3/3 for 3 being the worst.
You never go full discard.
Seriously though, a deck that includes the full range of discard synergies looks pretty bad because it is very inconsistent. Feels like you have to draw all your synergy cards in just the right order. The more reasonable discard decks seem more low key and I am honestly not even sure they are good.
I said it on stream, but I think the current discard strategy that Blizzard is pushing with Malchezaar's Imp and Darkshire Librarian is the wrong direction. Discard mechanics are strongest when you have an empty hand. A strategy where you replace discarded cards with other cards fights against that. If you could take out the RNG that would be more interesting and powerful imo.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
At least they're keeping the dream of a dragon paladin somewhat alive!
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
It's kinda weird, because it promotes taking potentially game losing risks when you do have it in your hand. A 3/3 for 3 won't lose you the game, but playing soulfire to try to cheat out your 3/3 might lose you the game by missing and discarding something else.
It probably takes some good play to know when to use it as a generic 3 mana 3/3, when to use it as the 100% discard chance despite maybe using up your hand somewhat inefficiently to make it happen (like soulfire opponent's 1/1), and when to take the desperation chance that it chooses to discard the right card.
3 mana 3/3 aren't great stats at the best of time, since every class can deal with very easily.
There are several minions with that stat line that get played, but pretty much all of them have amazing effects.
Whether or not Golem is on the level of these cards remains to me be seen.
There are several minions with that stat line that get played, but pretty much all of them have amazing effects.
Whether or not Golem is on the level of these cards remains to me be seen.
BRM wasn't an instant classic and was seen as a disappointment when it launched. Only after standard did it live up to its potential.
Naxx broke the game and shaped the game into what it is today. Undertaker is still the only card that has been nerfed which wasn't part of the classic set.
I joined after Naxx.
BRM was not "instantly" classic. Prerelease everyone thought Dragon Paladin was going to be OP and, as I recall, no one saw Patron Warrior coming.
None of the Adventures started as sensations before they were released.
LoE even didn't look that awesome until we actually got the cards and used them for a bit. Patron and Reno are the prime examples. Cards that no one thought would be any good and both turned out to be meta defining.
We'll see what turns out to be good from this set, but I think there are some cards being slept on in this set (and lots that are being called well).
That's correct. Naxx was the worst thing that ever happend happend to the game, closely followed by GVG.
BRM was very underwhelming at release, but the cards got better over time.
Reno was used the day that he was released. Look back at the forum posts on Blizzard/Reddit and even on here on the week Reno was released, you will see people demanding that the card should be nerfed.
In fact, Reno got weaker as time went on. Even in Wild where he should be at peak power, you don't see him that often.
In fact, Reno got weaker as time went on. Even in Wild where he should be at peak power, you don't see him that often.
You are right. Many people claimed that Reno would kill all aggro decks.
BRM was a super weird one. Some clearly strong cards like Flamewaker, Imp Gang Boss, and Emperor, but in general Dragon decks failed to really become a thing (especially Paladin). It took later expansions to make some of the cards stand out more.
...which is actually the one thing I'm kinda worried about with this expansion, the later sets when BRM/TGT/LoE get rotated out you basically lose the backbone of dragon decks, which actually impacts quite a few being added now. It'd be kinda sad to see a Gorrilabot situation again.
...which is actually the one thing I'm kinda worried about with this expansion, the later sets when BRM/TGT/LoE get rotated out you basically lose the backbone of dragon decks, which actually impacts quite a few being added now. It'd be kinda sad to see a Gorrilabot situation again.
toddhunter
Member
This is the most interesting and varied content in the history of hearthstone.
How will menagarie be pronounced next? I have no idea but I cannot wait to find out.
How will menagarie be pronounced next? I have no idea but I cannot wait to find out.
considering the leading dragon deck right now is pretty degenerate deck, can't say I gonna miss it
and new dragon card actually promising, they gonna release more dragon anyway
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I complained about how terrible of a design it is earlier too.
Like blizzard asked themselves how to make Discard work, and decided the answer is to just print a card that completely counteracts the downsides of discard's effect on card resources, and instead make it all about stupid RNG, so that cards like Silverware Golem and Fist of Jaraxxus might not ever actually get discarded as you keep discarding and replacing every card in your hand but the ones you actually want to discard.
Meanwhile you get to further your RNG fun by sometimes making that Possessed Villager into a Darkshire Councilman, or that Darkshire Councilman into a Possessed Villager, making it completely impossible to make any long term plan and letting RNG take complete control of the quality of the cards your hand.
But even poorly designed mechanics can be strong if the developers want it to be strong, and Blizzard apparently wants discard lock to be strong. I just don't know if they've succeeded.
Trump is lucky he's not a politician lol...he defends blizzard and chat calls him a sellout which he denies and then immediately says how he's been hanging out with blizz employees at parties...then says "it's not like I own blizzard stock...oh actually maybe I do have mutual funds with blizzard stock" and then chat goes off again.
Maybe this is blizzard's plan...make us fight amongst ourselves and create outrage and controversy to distract us from their real agenda. Not sure what it is but I'm on to you blizz.
Maybe this is blizzard's plan...make us fight amongst ourselves and create outrage and controversy to distract us from their real agenda. Not sure what it is but I'm on to you blizz.
Ha! I noticed this as well. Even Firebat, who I thought would nail it, pronounced it like it was a character name from a Fantasy Novel.
So weird to see that the Hearthstone community currently hates anyone who, you know, likes the game and is happy to be getting new cards.
the thing I have learned the most about pro hearthstone players in the last few days is that nobody knows how to pronounce menagerie
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Incorrectly is the answer
Oh snaps Disguised Toast found a use for Purify!
https://youtu.be/Ov4sKqR4ttk
Some truly savage stuff out there:
https://youtu.be/2xe7w2W_s1U
https://youtu.be/Ov4sKqR4ttk
Some truly savage stuff out there:
https://youtu.be/2xe7w2W_s1U
Basic pronuncation is a thing I can let slip for the non-English natives out there. Kripp, all the EU players etc. Most of them pronounce stuff wrong and it is close or they are trying, or its an accent thing. They didn't grow up using the language so in theory it should be harder for them, they pronounce it wrong, ok fine.
But people that are native speakers that don't get it? The word is mostly regular in spelling and pronunciation. At the minimum if they played D&D or Magic or other card games they should be right at home with these sorts of words. Holy hell, they can say Y'Sharaj and C'thun and weird stuff like Cairne, but not a regular ass word like Menagerie? It blows my mind.
I also once read an article about ESports pros, this was about SC2, but people mentioned Dota players also in the comments, that they have no idea how to set up a computer because either it is always done for them or they only have their own and never set up others. I would think a basic part of playing computer games for a living would involve setting up my computer to play at, but apparently, nope. Some of them apparently are unable to do basic stuff like install Skype, or configure their internet settings.
This has been my fear ever since they started with the standard format. They are trying to push stealing from other classes theme with Rogue further with Karazhan, but then it loses Burgle, Raptor, and Huckster next year. Dragon decks will lose out. Gorillabot looks so sad right now with GVG rotated out. Etc.
They're pushing the game into a more boring direction.
To be fair, I was looking it up and there actually seems to be two different pronunciations that are acceptable in English. You can prounce the 'g' as a regular soft 'g' or make it sound more like 'zh' as in the original French pronunciation.
Although you certainly don't pronounce it Men-uh-jar-ee or Men-uh-jeer, lol
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Burgle will rotate as will Raptor but Huckster is OG and won't rotate out til 2018.
We still have an expansion this year and then another expansion is added when the rotation hits. Plenty of cards will be added and some of them could support thief rogue and deathrattle rogue. I've been playing N'zoth rogue a lot lately and while I run raptor I don't think it's super essential to the deck anyway, so I think in 2017 n'zoth rogue will still be viable, or at least as viable as it is now.
Dragon is a different story of course. We'll have to wait and see what comes next 2 expansions before seeing if it disappears as an archetype in standard. It seems like they want to keep it going though.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I need this to be a real card.
That'd be disgustingly OP. Just hit the hero power button twice as Shaman or Paladin, and priest gets a 2 mana 3/4? Combined with Priest's hero power, that's just too gross.
They should be getting more spells to handle early game aggro, not good minions that'll let them fairly easily snowball out of control.
Hard to get a good winrate if you play against people who are using the same deck as you I guess.
If they hero power twice then that's a 2 mana card they aren't playing until turn 4 where a 3/4 no longer matters.
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