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G

greepoman

Member
Most of the streamers get bored playing the same old decks so they spice it up and don't rank up as fast.

Also most of the top streamers I wouldn't even call hearthstone "pros" anymore. Coincidentally these guys are where you get a lot of the "hearthstone pros were wrong clips". If you go look at the reviews of the try-hards who get like top40 every month who review cards with their buddies, they are more accurate with their assessments.
 
F

Fishlake

Member
So I have an interesting thought. If you use bran and moat lurker will you resummon the minion killed by the battle cry twice. Since the death rattle is a buff I think it would work similar to void terror. You could then combo with the raptor to summon it 4 times with the 2 from lurker.

I think this will be one of the more interesting hearthstone cards that exists.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
greepoman said:
Most of the streamers get bored playing the same old decks so they spice it up and don't rank up as fast.

Also most of the top streamers I wouldn't even call hearthstone "pros" anymore. Coincidentally these guys are where you get a lot of the "hearthstone pros were wrong clips". If you go look at the reviews of the try-hards who get like top40 every month who review cards with their buddies, they are more accurate with their assessments.
Click to expand...

I hope you didn't come to the conclusion that the actual pros were more accurate with their assessments just because I didn't include many of them in my video. For example, Dahbomb and I had the chance to put Kolento on blast in our LOE re-review and he did not get the top prize.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
The card is so bad they are removing it from arena? Holy fuck

How does Purify help with a new archetype exactly? Priest has a 0 mana silence card already

They are going to massively overcompensate with the next expansion now
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Officerrob said:
How does purify help with a new archetype exactly? Priest has a 0 mana silence card already
Click to expand...

If you want to develop a whole new archetype based on self-silence, having only 2 cards probably hurts the consistency too much. It becomes a super draw-specific event like Auchenai+Circle rather than the lynchpin of your whole deck. And Owl or Spellbreaker are probably too expensive for that strategy.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
ZealousD said:
If you want to develop a whole new archetype based on self-silence, having only 2 cards probably hurts the consistency too much. It becomes a super draw-specific event like Auchenai+Circle rather than the lynchpin of your whole deck. And Owl or Spellbreaker are probably too expensive for that strategy.
Click to expand...

Are you really going to run 2 silences and 2 purifies so you can attack with Ancient Watchers and Eerie Statues though? If you want to attempt something like that, Purify needed to be introduced along side other cards to help that (awful) archetype
 
G

greepoman

Member
ZealousD said:
I hope you didn't come to the conclusion that the actual pros were more accurate with their assessments just because I didn't include many of them in my video. For example, Dahbomb and I had the chance to put Kolento on blast in our LOE re-review and he did not get the top prize.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure... I was just bored one day at work and went back and looked at some old card reviews...they weren't videos just articles ...I think one from liquid hearth. I was surprised how on point they were though.


Officerrob said:
Are you really going to run 2 silences and 2 purifies so you can attack with Ancient Watchers and Eerie Statues though? If you want to attempt something like that, Purify needed to be introduced along side other cards to help that (awful) archetype
Click to expand...

Oh you will when they release the new priest 1 drop..."1 mana 30/30 - Cant Attack" and at the attack sound will be Ben Brode laughing.
 
C

clav

Member
Better than doing nothing.

Still confusing why they can't just change rarity + cost.

edit: Finally watched the video. I guess it explains the cost, but what about rarity?
 
G

gutshot

Member
Why not just swap the rarities of Onyx Bishop and Purify? Would kill two birds with one stone. Really not a fan of just removing a card from a mode for no real good reason.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
gutshot said:
Why not just swap the rarities of Onyx Bishop and Purify? Would kill two birds with one stone. Really not a fan of just removing a card from a mode for no real good reason.
Click to expand...

I agree, I mean, it still draws a card right? And if someone thinks Purify is that bad, or the worst card, then they will never pick it... weird decision.

Officerrob said:
Are you really going to run 2 silences and 2 purifies so you can attack with Ancient Watchers and Eerie Statues though? If you want to attempt something like that, Purify needed to be introduced along side other cards to help that (awful) archetype
Click to expand...

People often ignore those minions, so it's not like you play a 7/7 and your opponent knows it will be able to attack next turn. A bit of mindgames can be fun. In the end, the card is bad but maybe if you build a deck around it then it could have some success (as far as meme decks go)
 
F

FormallyFamicom

Member
EuropeOG said:
I agree, I mean, it still draws a card right? And if someone thinks Purify is that bad, or the worst card, then they will never pick it... weird decision.
Click to expand...

Being offered bad class commons with boosted apperance rates lowers the opportunity of drafting good cards. Domino effect.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Officerrob said:
Are you really going to run 2 silences and 2 purifies so you can attack with Ancient Watchers and Eerie Statues though? If you want to attempt something like that, Purify needed to be introduced along side other cards to help that (awful) archetype
Click to expand...

Ben Brode never said the archetype was good. Only that it existed and some people on the team thought it was fun.

Clearly meant to be a meme deck with Barnes.
 
G

gutshot

Member
EuropeOG said:
I agree, I mean, it still draws a card right? And if someone thinks Purify is that bad, or the worst card, then they will never pick it... weird decision.



People often ignore those minions, so it's not like you play a 7/7 and your opponent knows it will be able to attack next turn. A bit of mindgames can be fun. In the end, the card is bad but maybe if you build a deck around it then it could have some success (as far as meme decks go)
Click to expand...

Well the main problem is it is a common class card and it will get the "latest set" bonus, so you would see it a lot in Priest drafts which brings the overal deck qualify and consistency down for that class. But yeah, I don't even think it's a terrible Arena card since it does cycle. It's sorta like Flare, where you take it just for the cycle and if you get any sort of extra value out of it, great. And making it a rare, like Flare, would mean you'd see it a lot less in Priest drafts. And Bishop seems like it could be a decent Arena card, so swapping them gives Priest a slight buff in Arena and avoids having to just delete a card from the mode.
 
C

clav

Member
ZealousD said:
Ben Brode never said the archetype was good. Only that it existed and some people on the team thought it was fun.

Clearly meant to be a meme deck with Barnes.
Click to expand...

I wonder what he said in that video implies that silence in priest costs too little.

He said Purify was tested at 1 cost, but the dev community concluded that 1-mana would be too meta defining.
 
M

Miletius

Member
ZealousD said:
Ben Brode never said the archetype was good. Only that it existed and some people on the team thought it was fun.

Clearly meant to be a meme deck with Barnes.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. The timing is awful though. When priest has zero archetypes that are available to them while all other classes have at least one (in the case of warrior, tons) it seems pretty weak to say, well, Priest will get better, eventually, hopefully.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
claviertekky said:
I wonder what he said in that video implies that silence in priest costs too little.

He said Purify was tested at 1 cost, but the dev community concluded that 1-mana would be too meta defining.
Click to expand...

Nah, he said that at 1 cost it was included just to act as a cycle/thin your deck and they didn't want it to be that type of card. They wanted it to fit only in the one archetype, not a general card to be used to thin, like flare was. There was nothing about it being meta defining stated.
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
Levi said:
That is a problem exclusive to Priest?

Anyway, most Priest lists run Museum Curator in that spot anyway, or the class Dragon. Now they can run Arcane Anomaly or Netherspite Historian in that slot if they want.

Arcane Anomaly coin PW:S seems pretty good to me.
Click to expand...

Very few priests are playing with Museum Curator now. The 1/2 body does nothing. N'zoth as a main archtype is pretty dead (with no deathrattle effect.)

If you're playing Resurrect, you're not playing Northshire Cleric on turn 1 or turn 2. The only card you MIGHT play on turn 2 is Wild Pyromancer (against Zoo, perhaps?)

Only about half of priest decks are using Northshire Cleric. It's a dead card most of the time unless you can combo it with Wild Pyromancer. With 1 power, it doesn't contest anything except tokens created by Entangling Roots, Argent Protector, or the paladin hero power and it dies to almost every two drop in the game.

Priest of the Feast is "ok". No one is disputing that, but it's another "decent" four drop in a class that already has too many four drops: Shifting Shade, Holy Champion, the 3/6 C'thun guy, 4/2 C'thun guy, ASP, and Elise. It doesn't deal with the 4 mana 7/7. It doesn't deal with Totem Golem. It doesn't do anything against Dragon Warrior. It's not enough.

Same with the Bishop. He's OK. Sometimes he will get you a Sylvanas, Blademaster, or something big and it will be really good.

Thing is, Priest didn't need OK cards, they needed stronger cards because they are the weaker class.

I'm pretty excited about the neutrals we got, but I don't see Priest really rising in the tiers. Not like Warrior, who really shouldn't complain about anything seeing how much they completely DOMINATE the current meta.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Blizzard made a response to Purify much quicker than I thought.

Removing Purify from Arena is about as good as switching rarities on it so that's good. Surprised they even made that change, should've switched rarities on the Mage cards as well but oh well... don't want to be the mouse who is given a cookie and then asks for the milk too.

I expected Brode would give the standard "some players like to win with bad cards" response. What's concerning is that Brode admitting that Blizzard didn't know there was going to be so much spotlight on Priest cards. They thought they did enough for Priest with the two new dragon cards. He also confirmed that going forward they are going to be fixing Priest or improving them.

Yeah expect Priest to be a lot better in next expansion. This is about to be a Shaman/Constructed and Warrior/Arena type power level increase.


On the point of Purify as a card design... clearly they were worried about the 1 mana cycle but why even attach a card draw to it if you were worried about cycling? How about making it "Silence a friendly minion, then give it +2/+3". That solves like two Priest problems instantly. +2/+3 is a bit on the high side (not even really when you compare it to Mark of Yshaarj upside or Power of the Wild which also gives taunt) but gets balanced by silencing your minion. So if you used it on a Cleric, you would lose its powerful effect at the expense of having something to control the board with.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Beast Druid deck? Beast Druid deck. I built one.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...30:1;27253:2;33151:2;35208:1;42024:2;42059:2;

My instinct says that this deck might be just a bit too slow. It might outpace the occasional Midrange Hunter but might fall behind Aggro/Midrange Shaman and Dragon Warrior. I tried throwing Leeroy in there as a closer for some final burst so that it has a chance to outpace some of those faster decks but I'm not entirely convinced. Druid of the Saber is an annoyance for Warrior, though.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ZealousD said:
Beast Druid deck? Beast Druid deck. I built one.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...30:1;27253:2;33151:2;35208:1;42024:2;42059:2;

My instinct says that this deck might be just a bit too slow. It might outpace the occasional Midrange Hunter but might fall behind Aggro/Midrange Shaman and Dragon Warrior. I tried throwing Leeroy in there as a closer for some final burst so that it has a chance to outpace some of those faster decks but I'm not entirely convinced. Druid of the Saber is an annoyance for Warrior, though.
Click to expand...
I had two Hungry Toads in my deck too for the extra chance to have a legit two drop. I also put in an Ancient of War and Ragnaros for the late game. Rest was the same as that. I don't think there will be most variation of the deck, it's very straightforward to build.
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
Dahbomb said:
Blizzard made a response to Purify much quicker than I thought.

Removing Purify from Arena is about as good as switching rarities on it so that's good. Surprised they even made that change, should've switched rarities on the Mage cards as well but oh well... don't want to be the mouse who is given a cookie and then asks for the milk too.

I expected Brode would give the standard "some players like to win with bad cards" response. What's concerning is that Brode admitting that Blizzard didn't know there was going to be so much spotlight on Priest cards. They thought they did enough for Priest with the two new dragon cards. He also confirmed that going forward they are going to be fixing Priest or improving them.

Yeah expect Priest to be a lot better in next expansion. This is about to be a Shaman/Constructed and Warrior/Arena type power level increase.


On the point of Purify as a card design... clearly they were worried about the 1 mana cycle but why even attach a card draw to it if you were worried about cycling? How about making it "Silence a friendly minion, then give it +2/+3". That solves like two Priest problems instantly. +2/+3 is a bit on the high side (not even really when you compare it to Mark of Yshaarj upside or Power of the Wild which also gives taunt) but gets balanced by silencing your minion. So if you used it on a Cleric, you would lose its powerful effect at the expense of having something to control the board with.
Click to expand...

based on the vid, it seems like they want to shift dragon priest to be the main archtype. Definitely typical bbrode/team5 response but it's funny that they are straight up removing the card from arena instead of using that digital space to fix it
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
I mean yeah a silence deck where you swing with giant minions with low cost does sound funny, but I don't think making purify is the way to go. One card to silence one thing is pretty bad, card draw helps a bit. If anything make a weapon the silences your shit as the durability goes down. Basically a skilldrain deck from yugioh. Problem is that hearthstone is way to slow and the deck would be way inconsistent due to lack of draw cards. Now if purify was 0 mana..
 
N

NBtoaster

Member
The reasoning with it being 2 mana is understandable. Too many low cost cycles could result in a Velens/Malygos/Auchenai otk deck being good.

But this leads to a common problem in Heartstone. Too good at 1 mana, but too bad at 2 mana. Should the card then not exist?
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
NBtoaster said:
The reasoning with it being 2 mana is understandable. Too many low cost cycles could result in a Velens/Malygos/Auchenai otk deck being good.

But this leads to a common problem in Heartstone. Too good at 1 mana, but too bad at 2 mana. Should the card then not exist?
Click to expand...

I think it should. The reasoning he gives for its existence is sound: not everyone is a competitive player and these kinds of cards of fun.

I agree that the timing for Purify was bad.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
I think the worst part about this expansion is not the lack of priest cards. It's the powerful zoolock cards they added while zoo is already tier 1. Why aren't people complaining about that?
Click to expand...

Because this happens in every expansion. We are used to it. Zoo is the entry tier 1 deck for new players.

NBtoaster said:
But this leads to a common problem in Heartstone. Too good at 1 mana, but too bad at 2 mana. Should the card then not exist?
Click to expand...

Well in all fairness, card variety is a good thing and over time we might find uses for the card. Cheap cantrips (aka cards with "draw a card" in them) are not the worst offenders. The 2-mana 3/2 taunt is worse than purify in constructed at least.
 
L

Levi

Banned
KuroNeeko said:
I'm pretty excited about the neutrals we got, but I don't see Priest really rising in the tiers. Not like Warrior, who really shouldn't complain about anything seeing how much they completely DOMINATE the current meta.
Click to expand...

The warrior class cards this adventure are bad-to-mediocre, and I think as a Control/Fatigue warrior fan I have just as many reasons to bitch as anyone else with how my archetype has been treated since Standard hit.

Fatigue warrior is dead and traditional Control Warrior is tier three and is only going to get worse as more control cards are rotated out and replaced by midrange/aggro cards.

Idgaf if Dragon Warrior and Cthun Warrior are tier one, I don't like those decks.
 
F

fertygo

Member
nothing that team 5 hate more than combo deck

shame

I think they love Freeze Mage tho, just for showcase "u can play this game like this too, yay" nothing more
 
M

manhack

Member
3/4 games against N'zoth Priest:

TLvgv9p.png



That Rank 16 meta tho
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
My quickest win of the night. Zoo has 4 minions on board on turn 4... I guess he was trying to play around AOE cause he just tapped and did nothing.

Meanwhile my hand with 4 mana is:
flamewaker, coin, apprentice, arcane missiles, mirror image, arcane blast, arcane blast, water elemental.

He conceded after that barrage of spells. Even saved an arcane blast.
 
P

Professor Lich

Member
ZealousD said:
Beast Druid deck? Beast Druid deck. I built one.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilde...30:1;27253:2;33151:2;35208:1;42024:2;42059:2;

My instinct says that this deck might be just a bit too slow. It might outpace the occasional Midrange Hunter but might fall behind Aggro/Midrange Shaman and Dragon Warrior. I tried throwing Leeroy in there as a closer for some final burst so that it has a chance to outpace some of those faster decks but I'm not entirely convinced. Druid of the Saber is an annoyance for Warrior, though.
Click to expand...

I know it's horrible idea, but I have to run Pantry Spiders and Knights of the Wild when I make a Beast Druid deck, just because there's the synergy there.
 
A

Apathy

Member
watching kripp as he watches brode's video on purify. He seems genuinely remorseful at the fact priests are getting this piece of trash, but in reality hearing his explanations why they pushed it make it sound like they are hugely incompetent.

They didn't think that people wanted to play priest and thats a reason why they gave priests a "fun" card. Get the fuck out of here with that. There is nothing fun about purify and what the community wants is to have all classes be playable, not for one to be the giant joke of the community. Obviously there will always be one at the bottom but priests are so far down with almost nothing viable that why would anyone that plays the game want that for a class?

Like how hard is it for them to get that priest need early game, just open up the damn collections and see how many 1/2/3 drops a priest has
 
K

Karsticles

Member
A pretty awful response from Brode, but it seems like people are just happy he talked about it and admitted it was a misstep. Personally, I prefer for people to actually fix their mistakes instead of just admitting they were made. If Brode had revealed a better Purify in that video, that would have been more satisfactory. He wants Dragon Priest to work, but I'm skeptical of that without a Velen's replacement.

Any notion that "fun" cards can't be competitive is asinine.

fertygo said:
nothing that team 5 hate more than combo deck

shame

I think they love Freeze Mage tho, just for showcase "u can play this game like this too, yay" nothing more
Click to expand...
But Freeze Mage is dead in Standard and Wild, lol.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
"Fun" non meta cards absolutely have a place in Hearthstone. But they should not be introduced in an adventure unless it's to a class currently at the top of the meta that needs no further help (Warrior for example). Blizzard has made it clear they don't want to buff or nerf cards, so the three card releases each year are when people want shortcomings addressed as much as possible.

Brode's comments come off like they were surprised that the community would want the worst class in the game improved. Also, it appears like they didn't really grasp how bad Priest currently is. These are troubling, it's like they don't play their own game outside of the bubble of their office and are not in touch at all with those who play their game.
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
Officerrob said:
"Fun" non meta cards absolutely have a place in Hearthstone. But they should not be introduced in an adventure unless it to a class currently at the top of the meta that needs no further help (Warrior for example). Blizzard has made it clear they don't want to buff or nerf card so the three card releases each year are when people want shortcomings addressed as much as possible.

Brode's comments come off like they were surprised that the community would want the worst class in the game improved. Also, it appears like they didn't really grasp how bad Priest currently is. These are troubling, it's like they don't play their own game outside of the bubble of their office and are not in touch at all with those who play their game.
Click to expand...

but they go home and play HS after work though
 
F

fertygo

Member
Karsticles said:
But Freeze Mage is dead in Standard and Wild, lol.
Click to expand...

Deck goes unchecked for 3 year, its played even from the first few tourney.. blizz never weaken the deck despite the amount of whining to it.

its insane longevity for archetype, just finally not in meta because its can't win against warrior and deck with doomhammer.
 
K

KuroNeeko

Member
You know what though, I don't think they're that incompetent. Sure, they make mistakes and they get blinded by their own work just like any other developer.

I've been playing for a while, not as long as some of you, but Priest has never been that popular of a class. But, the state of the Priest class has become topical and the current meme. Some people are reacting to it just to react. I guarantee that most of the Hearthstone population does not want to see a Tier 1 Priest deck--especially if it's Control.

I think Priest did get stronger because some of the Neutrals are better suited for Priest than other classes. Book Wyrm is also a decent card. The other two class cards are decent cards (though not enough to make Priest strong.)

It didn't take much for the WHAT ABOUT PRIESTS! movement to really take off and yeah, maybe the Priest cards were receiving way more attention than they initially were expecting.

I'm not bothered by Purify, especially since I don't play that much Arena. I've never ranked up past rank 8. Part of that is because I don't play very much. The other part is I like non-mainstream, janky control decks.

Paladin is in a shit spot right now too, though Secret Paladin seems to be on the verge of taking off again. Rogue isn't much better and neither is Mage. No one is really complaining about them.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the game stops being fun, I'll just play more Shadowverse, or Overwatch, or some other game out there.
 
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