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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Lone_Prodigy
Member
Power Overwhelming was fine I think when cheap minions weren't sticky. But due to power creep and lack of board clear, here we are.
Maybe Mage should start running Arcane Explosion again.
Maybe Mage should start running Arcane Explosion again.
You treat it like Deathwing and don't overly commit to the board against decks like Tempo Mage and Yogg Hunter. When people play Yogg, the goal is usually to draw and clear the board.
Better I think, especially with the amount of divine shields.
They are better off running that new 3 mana minion instead. Though Flamewaker and Arcane Missiles are usually enough to deal with small granular minions for them.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Of course it's the hero power. They're never going to change it though.
Why? It's the best tempo hero power in the game. It dominates in Arena.
They make a couple of strong weapon buffs for Rogue and that hero power is going to start working over time again.
Issue is that in general there aren't good enough alternative hero powers to classes. I am not talking about straight up "give multiple hero power options per classes" but classes don't have their version of Jaraxxus or Shadowpower or that Shaman weapon. So classes are funneled into the style dictated by their hero power unless they are given ridiculously over powered cards to the point where they can completely ignore their hero power and play cards on curve.
I was actually thinking about Rogue hero power last night and how anti-synergy it is with the currently available cards in Standard. Weapons like Perdition's Blade and Assassin's Blade prevent you from using your hero power and the only good weapon buff is Deadly Poison. It actually makes a lot of sense to replace Poison with a Sir Finley in basically all Rogue decks, and then add in a card like Perdition as removal.
500 wins isn't that difficult when you win by Turn 6.
I thought introducing standard meant less power creep and yet here we are with the most OP cards yet. I suppose none of them are quite as bad as Mysterious Challenger...
The first month or so of standard was actually fun, having a completely new meta, but now I'm starting to think this might be one of the worst meta's yet. It feels like Blizzard just has no idea how to balance this game. I'm not saying it's an easy job, but some of these design choices just make no sense to me.
The first month or so of standard was actually fun, having a completely new meta, but now I'm starting to think this might be one of the worst meta's yet. It feels like Blizzard just has no idea how to balance this game. I'm not saying it's an easy job, but some of these design choices just make no sense to me.
The power level of Old Gods is much lower than Naxx and GvG.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The actual thing with Yogg is playing a suboptimal deck to enable it. I don't feel too bad losing to Yogg since my opponent already gave me all the chances playing a spell heavy deck.
I wouldn't call Yogg Tempo Mage a suboptimal deck since there aren't many cards you'd run that wouldn't already be in a traditional Tempo Mage deck.
I think the lack of minion stickiness is what stops Shaman from being a frustratingly powerful deck like Secret Paladin or peak Zoo. A great Shaman opening is powerful but if you can answer the threats you've won. Secret Pally regularly had you answering the same minion twice or even three times and when Zoo was running their Naxx suite, it was basically impossible to completely clear their board if they structure it right.
Tempo Mage and Yogg Druid are hardly suboptimal. They can blow you up easily without Yogg.
Karsticles
Member
Just the traditional list with Bloodhoof Braves and Ravaging Ghouls. Is the N'Zoth list just N'Zoth+Sylvannas+Dr.Boom? I don't have any of those, haha. :-/
Every.
Damn.
Time.
You mean "can't", right?
Tempo Mage literally swapped Antonidas for Yogg.
I was agreeing with you, if that wasn't clear.I'm sure that card will end up in a meta deck sooner or later.
Speaking of hunter, I just wanted to get some wins on the board so on my lunch break I made a brokeback hybrid hunter deck and got two quick wins against a renolock (what idiot plays renolock at rank 15) and a c'thun warrior. (Felt good to be on the other side of that hopeless match up for once.)
So yesterday I was 5-6 and today I'm 2-5 so far... I really want to get my standard rank to at least 10 before I slink back to wild but it's not happening.
Lol it was probably me playing a Reno deck. Warlock is my favorite class and I was bored playing Zoo so decided to try something different...went back to Zoo now.
go shaman
the last 3 shaman runs i went 6 wins 9 wins and 8 wins.
flamewreathed is pretty good. i think i had 4 in one of those decks lol.
Also just remembered that I missed my 1 drop every single match of that run despite having 5 of them, although one time I got coin and auto-barber in hand so I could live with it
I'll try and remember that, although I feel like my bias towards my windfury deck might screw me up there too.
I do treat Yogg like Twisting nether because its what he consistently does if he do more than that, well
Rogue is tricky at arena but its goddamn deadly when its rolling, its better serve if you think match only 8 turn long as Rogue at arena, roll the tempo to the max..
I was kind of satisfied at 3 already, got the 1/2 powered by mechs, a pit snake and the charge pirate, but I remember the last 2 being against absolutely dreadful cards, or yet another 4 drop that I had plenty of
That's what I've heard. Harder to play than say mage, but much more powerful if you're good at playing the class
Edit: Oh, good to know, Renounce decks don't follow "only 1 legendary per deck" rule, completely random.
Varian Wrynn pulled out a Varian Wrynn.
markofhavoc
Member
Has anyone else had an issue where a card just hovers and then the game lets the opponent still go but there turn never ends? This has happened a few times on PC, and the last time I literally had lethal in arena and it frustrated me to no end. I really think it is unfair when you paid for a game and you get a free loss.
AFAIK that's a disconnect issue. Alt F4 out and log back in and it should be fixed.
markofhavoc
Member
That is really good to know, it will help in the future. Still didnt know it was a disconnect right away, just thought he was BMing since he was about to lose.
NobleGundam
Banned
Blade of C'thun is so good in rogue. If you know how to properly use him with Rogue combos it can get ridiculous real fast.
All good Yogg decks are meant to win without using Yogg Saron.
In past meta-games, decks like Tempo Mage would lose the game on the spot if you could control their board past turn 4. They'd have to find all their draw or start throwing burn at your face and hope they can kill you, because their win condition was denied (a snowballing Mana Wyrm or a Flamewaker gone unchecked).
Now, if their win conditions are denied, Yogg gives them a good chance to swing the game back and win anyway. No other card EVER has had that power.
That is the general consensus.
These new stats on Arena going first vs second are god damn alarming (they are on Kripp's latest video). Previously we used to have around a 5% difference in winrate between going first vs going second with going first being advantageous except for Rogue who won slightly more going second.
Now it seems that with Old Gods that percentage has shifted to a damn near 10% difference. It's particularly alarming because this rate has been increasing since GvG.
The reason is pretty obvious... Blizzard fails to put out meaningful spells and board clears that act as recovery mechanics once someone puts down a minion before you. They have also been printing lower cost "bigger" minions like Inspire and Discover cards that fill out the curve. WoG was the worst in this regard where it provided the least recovery mechanics.
To be honest I think similar stats exist on Ladder as well especially with the powerful one drops.
In other news Kripp queued into the same Brawl opponent 5 times. No god damn surprise, this week's Tavern Brawl is basically the most degenerate variation of what you see in Wild Ladder anyway. And the Brawl stats are even more lopsided when it comes to going first vs second... it's like HS at its peak evolution.
Now it seems that with Old Gods that percentage has shifted to a damn near 10% difference. It's particularly alarming because this rate has been increasing since GvG.
The reason is pretty obvious... Blizzard fails to put out meaningful spells and board clears that act as recovery mechanics once someone puts down a minion before you. They have also been printing lower cost "bigger" minions like Inspire and Discover cards that fill out the curve. WoG was the worst in this regard where it provided the least recovery mechanics.
To be honest I think similar stats exist on Ladder as well especially with the powerful one drops.
In other news Kripp queued into the same Brawl opponent 5 times. No god damn surprise, this week's Tavern Brawl is basically the most degenerate variation of what you see in Wild Ladder anyway. And the Brawl stats are even more lopsided when it comes to going first vs second... it's like HS at its peak evolution.
TetraxShards
Member
The weekend warrior is definitely a thing. It's good for me because I like to play concede decks these days so most of what I'm playing against is C'Thun and all-basic decks.
There's nothing quite like that feeling of panic when you're playing control and realise that the other person is playing mill.
Beating the Coldlight decks in the two cards only Brawl with Beneath the Grounds and Prep never got old. I hope that Brawl comes back when they release another full set.
Its so fun to play though. Don't hate, besides for every 1 game they actually win the person probably lost 5-10.
I think decks feel OP is because if they curve into their game plan or win condition before you then making a comeback is near impossible. If your deck is based on having answers and making swing turns you just lose. If you have a tempo deck yourself and the other player gets board control you lose. These games are decided very early.
Aggro/Tempo Warrior, Shaman, Hunter all have pretty nasty curves that can leave any deck DOA by turn 6 or 8. Zoo can overwhelm any deck that misses a single drop.
I miss mid-range paladin for this exact reason. It had ways to stall out the game, play smart around threats and make a decent swing turn. It had staying power against control decks and could survive against aggro decks. Muster was often a nightmare for zoo players because it let you fight for board like nothing else could while you look for your board clear.
The RNG based win condition (or not lose condition) of Yogg-Saron has also made a big impact on the meta. Yogg is really in the place I thought it would be when we were first discussing it. Lots of people thought it would be a joke card, and in some ways it is, but we are seeing it in tournament decks and many players are hitting legend with Yogg Druid.
With the deck refinement over the past month it is also much more punishing to try something new than it was at the start of Old Gods. I think we all love that first week or more after an expansion where we can try new things without feeling like we are throwing away wins.
As with any meta we are seeing a lot of the top tier meta decks as people look to copy whatever is working, but I still think there is as much deck diversity as we have had in other metas.
These are all decks I've seen more than once over the past month:
Warrior: Dragon, Tempo, Patron, C'thun, Control, Pirate aggro
Shaman: Aggro, Mid-Range, Hybrid, Control (seriously)
Warlock: Zoo, Reno
Druid: Yogg, Token, Ramp
Hunter: Hybrid, Mid-Range, Yogg and Load
Mage: Tempo and Freeze
Rogue: Miracle, N'zoth, Yogg
Paladin: Secret, N'zoth, Divine Shield
Priest: N'zoth, Dragon, Control
It seems like standard was a double edged sword. It opened up new deck types with new cards, but it eliminated cards that were vital to older deck types. Now we wait on the next expansion to see if it can give us the tools to deal with the current meta or not.
Aggro/Tempo Warrior, Shaman, Hunter all have pretty nasty curves that can leave any deck DOA by turn 6 or 8. Zoo can overwhelm any deck that misses a single drop.
I miss mid-range paladin for this exact reason. It had ways to stall out the game, play smart around threats and make a decent swing turn. It had staying power against control decks and could survive against aggro decks. Muster was often a nightmare for zoo players because it let you fight for board like nothing else could while you look for your board clear.
The RNG based win condition (or not lose condition) of Yogg-Saron has also made a big impact on the meta. Yogg is really in the place I thought it would be when we were first discussing it. Lots of people thought it would be a joke card, and in some ways it is, but we are seeing it in tournament decks and many players are hitting legend with Yogg Druid.
With the deck refinement over the past month it is also much more punishing to try something new than it was at the start of Old Gods. I think we all love that first week or more after an expansion where we can try new things without feeling like we are throwing away wins.
As with any meta we are seeing a lot of the top tier meta decks as people look to copy whatever is working, but I still think there is as much deck diversity as we have had in other metas.
These are all decks I've seen more than once over the past month:
Warrior: Dragon, Tempo, Patron, C'thun, Control, Pirate aggro
Shaman: Aggro, Mid-Range, Hybrid, Control (seriously)
Warlock: Zoo, Reno
Druid: Yogg, Token, Ramp
Hunter: Hybrid, Mid-Range, Yogg and Load
Mage: Tempo and Freeze
Rogue: Miracle, N'zoth, Yogg
Paladin: Secret, N'zoth, Divine Shield
Priest: N'zoth, Dragon, Control
It seems like standard was a double edged sword. It opened up new deck types with new cards, but it eliminated cards that were vital to older deck types. Now we wait on the next expansion to see if it can give us the tools to deal with the current meta or not.
What are good gimmick decks for Druid, Rogue or Priest? I had a 'Cast 40 spells' quest yesterday and slapped a very basic Summoning Stone Mage and surprisingly won 4-0. While most of it was luck, that deck was really fun to play. I also bought 40 Classic Packs but didn't get anything good from it. I have some dust and I'm just wondering on a different deck archetype than what is popular in the current meta. Don't have anything good tbh, but I have some legendaries that I can dust and I can also get Blackrock for some additional cards and dust.
Yoggdruid is a gimmick and powerful. You'll need Fangral and the titular Yogg. Or if you want more gimmick, put in Malygos. Malygos also works for rogues. Or go full N'zoth deathrattle. Priests... their whole class is a gimmick. If you want to win, go C'thun or dragons. If you want to go full gimmick, make a Divine Spirit + Inner Fire deck.
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