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[thepotatoman]

I think it's fair to call Ice Block a 5 star card after seeing it used so much over so many different metas with or without secret synergy. And if you ever run Ice Block you probably want to run Arcanologist too because it is too good if you ever have any secrets to draw.

Besides. If it was like "Battlecry: add a Counterspell to your hand" or whatever, that's still often good enough to dilute your deck a little and just be a little sad when you draw into those cards instead.

I just don't know how good pure Secret Mage is with this. Makes it way better and more consistent, but that deck always seemed clunky even with the best of draws to me. Curve is just a bit too off.

 

[Sheroking]

My opinion:

Explore Un'Goro: Fun gimmick card like Renounce. People who dismiss these cards as not worthwhile are boring, boring people.

Tortollan Shellraiser: In a world where the Infested Tauren saw some limited play in N'Zoth, this one will definitely be played in Amara Priest. Decent arena card too.

Lakkari Sacrifice: I'm not sure if this is fast enough for discard-lock. By the time they get to six discards, they've won or lost the game most of the time. I'm not sure the tools exist to play a slower discard game.... oh.

Lakkari Bloodhound: So the goal here isn't to play Discard Zoo, but a midrange deck that happens to run ~8 discard cards for a total discard potential of like 12. Not sure that can be better. Cards okay with the quest. Not worth losing 2 cards like Doomguard without it.

Arcanologist: Shittier Mad Scientist. They really want Secret Mage to be a thing but the problem is the other cards they've introduced are mostly bad and Mage secrets don't have good synergy.

Elise the Trailblazer: Pretty fun value card in control. Definitely going in my Wild Reno Priest.

Golakka Crawler: Well, it's better than Hungry Crab and Eater of Secrets because it's costed well for it's stats. I've seen some people speculate that Pirate Warrior would run it themselves, but I don't see that. Pirate Warrior has a clock and playing a 2 mana 3/4 is sadly slower than playing a weapon/charger and clocking face. Also, it disrupts the Bloodsail turn. Think this card is just a background deterrent to prevent Patches from running as wild as he did pre-STB nerf.

Dinosize: Bah.

Sherazin: Value cards in Rogue seem bad as long as there are no good heals for the deck. Not hard for Rogue to play 4 cards though, especially since they made the mistake of not retiring Gadgetzan Auctioneer.

Tar Creeper: Seems bad.

Swamp King Dred: Sucks. A 7 mana 9/9 that does nothing when you play it, that the opponent gets to choose what it attacks, that is still vulnerable to all the undercosted hard removal in the game. It's a tempo loss in a tempo class. Just play King Krush because at least then you get to pick what you hit.

 

[ZealousD]

I think it's fair to call Ice Block a 5 star card after seeing it used so much over so many different metas with or without secret synergy. And if you ever run Ice Block you probably want to run Arcanologist too because it is too good if you ever have any secrets to draw.

Besides. If it was like "Battlecry: add a Counterspell to your hand" or whatever, that's still often good enough to dilute your deck a little and just be a little sad when you draw into those cards instead.

I just don't know how good pure Secret Mage is with this. Makes it way more consistant, but always seemed clunky even with the best of draws to me.

I mean, one of the problems with Secret Mage is that sometimes you just don't draw your secrets. This gives you the opportunity to do so on a minion with zero stat loss.

Tar Creeper: Bad. I guess you could taunt it or something.

It already has taunt.

 

[Sheroking]

It already has taunt.

You beat my ninja edit.

 

[ZealousD]

You beat my ninja edit.

Dinosize is a Paladin card. Not Druid.

 

[Sheroking]

Dinosize is a Paladin card. Not Druid.

Goddamnit.

 

[wiibomb]

I still think Elise is pretty bad.

it doesn't add much to the control archetype when that card only saves you from fatigue with 1 card, besides it adds a whole 5 cards to the hand, which is probably too bad when a control player already has a near full hand.

I really like the card but I feel it doesn't fit really anything

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Why am I 1-2 facing a 12 win Mage deck?

You would think this kind of shit would be incapable of happening by now.

 

[thepotatoman]

I mean, one of the problems with Secret Mage is that sometimes you just don't draw your secrets. This gives you the opportunity to do so on a minion with zero stat loss.

Yeah, of course it makes it hugely better, but that deck is just so incredibly bad right now it needs a lot to become good.

Sure, now if your first 6 cards include Kabal Lackey, Kirin Tor Mage, a mirror entity, and a Arcanologist, followed up with a bunch of stupid cheap 5/5s and Medivh's Valet, you're basically playing Midrange Shaman, which is really good.

But if you miss that curve I don't see you catching up very easily, because your only win mechanic is tempo secrets and cheap 5/5s.

 

[Tacitus_]

Why am I 1-2 facing a 12 win Mage deck?

You would think this kind of shit would be incapable of happening by now.

12 win decks still have to start at 0 wins.

 

[Drkirby]

Dinosize seems really damn good to me, something I could definitely see getting play.

Elise is likely good in a Burgle Rogue deck, since it can get cards from any class. Though Burgle Rogue isn't that viable, and is losing a big card in Standard (Burgle)

 

[QFNS]

Oh damn I just realized that the mage quest is going to be play a bunch of secrets. FUUUUUUCCCKKKK that's gonna suck ass.

 

[Drkirby]

Oh damn I just realized that the mage quest is going to be play a bunch of secrets. FUUUUUUCCCKKKK that's gonna suck ass.

I actually think its going to be the original Kazakus trigger, when he was a Mage Card. Play X number of unique spells.

Kazakus specifically was "Battlecry: If you have cast 10 unique spells this game, become Khajakus, Dragon Form"

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

fuck aracanologist. Who @Blizzard thought 'you know what I miss mad scientist'?

 

[squidyj]

fuck aracanologist. Who @Blizzard thought 'you know what I miss mad scientist'?

are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

are you fucking kidding me with this bullshit?

What? It's obviously not Mad Scientist, I'm hyperbolic.

 

[Szadek]

Aracanologist is like 1-2 mana worse (in terms of value) than mad scientist (in mage).

 

[Dart]

I actually think its going to be the original Kazakus trigger, when he was a Mage Card. Play X number of unique spells.

Kazakus specifically was "Battlecry: If you have cast 10 unique spells this game, become Khajakus, Dragon Form"

Just looked this up because I never knew about these cards that didn't make the cut.

To think Priest was getting a +1 mana more expensive Madam Goya as it's class legendary.... LOL what the...

 

[Ladekabel]

Just looking at the other cards and wondering why the Priest card that was shown of all things is a four drop. Hoping for other cards that'll give early game to Priest.

 

[Hycran]

Aracanologist is like 1-2 mana worse (in terms of value) than mad scientist (in mage).

Mad scientist played the secret immediately whereas this one only draws it. Mad scientist was basically 5 mana worth of value. Draw a card is generally .5-1 mana depending on the class, so MS is still at least 2-2.5 mana better. This doesn't even include that in turn 3 you increase your tempo by actually playing a card and not a secret.

Anyone complaining about arcanologist is a damn fool. It's a card that will make secret Mage a thing, particularly when combined with the Kabal 1 mana card, Kirin tor and maybe even the ethereal 4 mana card or crystal runner. I think it's great.

 

[Yaboosh]

I think defender of argus is one of my favorite cards in the game.

 

[BigJonsson]

Anyone in NA have a challenge a friend quest to trade?

bigjonsson#1492

 

[MThanded]

Why am I 1-2 facing a 12 win Mage deck?

You would think this kind of shit would be incapable of happening by now.

Kripp is this you?

Sounds exactly like the complaints he is always making. 12 wins decks start at 0-0 like everyone else.

 

[Pooya]

Golokka crawler, uh.... yeah that is sure to fix the problem....


Tar creeper is a copy/paste shadowverse card.

Hunter card seems fine, the downside is that it auto dies to poisonous cards, if there are some good adapt cards everyone plays this could be very frustrating for both players....still very strong.

The imps from portal are two 3/2s every turn? that quest is ok. Discarding 6 cards seems very hard though. don't know. The taunt guy doesn't seem worth, it's no doomguard but still might see play if you want the quest.

Rogue legendary, playing 4 cards is actually not easy at all, I don't know how much impact a 5/3 can have. Similar to n'zoth rogue you just die before it matters anyway.

burst damage for paly is fine, they need something like that.

Priest taunt will be annoying, even though stats are not good it has dr, that's a big deal.

drawing secrets is ok, but freeze mage isn't a thing anymore so I'm not sure if it's usable. Secret mage is bad even with this...you don't want to play too many secrets ever, I think the idea of that deck is just bad. Other mage decks can use this just fine, it's good. Control mage and similar will love this card. but secret mage? eh. maybe with some other card.


It seems they are adding even more infinite resource cards... which are probably not as good as jades but still rip control.

 

[squidyj]

Edit: Quest done.

 

[joelseph]

Water Stealth is surprisingly fun.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/747944-water-stealth-rogue

Anyone that has these cards sleeve them up and take the deck for a spin. Will have you smiling. Just went 7-2 for my last session, playing 4 Dragon Priests, 1 Dragon Warrior, 1 Pirate Warrior and 1 Jade Druid. Fast games, fun interactions. Sensei - step - sensei is good times.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I sorta think elise will be better than people expect. It depends on how the RNG is weighted in terms of favorability but it adds a spell to your deck that is like cabalist's tome on steroids.

 

[fertygo]

add 5 is very big tho, that card will only played in slower deck, if you playing slow deck you gonna had trouble to empty your hand enough to fill with 5 card

 

[Triz]

That feeling when you have a Priest Arena run at 10-1 (previous high was 9 wins in Arena) and get wrecked by some seriously crazy decks for the last two losses. Oh well, getting that high just confirms I drafted well.

 

[Pooya]

Really hard to evaluate new Elise, I think it's better than old elise because it's far faster but how good is a pack? It's very hard to say, I'd say it's easily worse than a card like Cabalist's tome, spells are stronger and it has less variance. I don't know how useful this card is in general. It can be anything.

I think all the value cards they showed are interesting but as long as Jades are in the game I don't think any of it is usable.

 

[scarlet]

Really hard to evaluate new Elise, I think it's better than old elise because it's far faster but how good is a pack? It's very hard to say, I'd say it's easily worse than a card like Cabalist's tome, spells are stronger and it has less variance. I don't know how useful this card is in general. It can be anything.

I think all the value cards they showed are interesting but as long as Jades are in the game I don't think any of it is usable.

So far I'm not a fan of new Elise other than the animations. Old Elise is more reliable, cuz it's only legendary minions. A pack is 5/135 cards. With so much variance of rarity and type.

 

[fertygo]

Maybe warrior quest reward gonna be infinite swing weapon

That gonna be interesting win condition for slower warrior deck

As long the quest is kill 12 minion or something like that.

 

[thepotatoman]

add 5 is very big tho, that card will only played in slower deck, if you playing slow deck you gonna had trouble to empty your hand enough to fill with 5 card

Control Rogue and Control Hunter never have any problems with hand sizes. Will be very fun in classes like that, giving them something to do while they wait to draw their sick combo one by one.

My only worry with new Elise is how strongly basically everything punishes strict card value decks these days and even a single card shuffle like White Eye is too slow to get to.

Would be like 6 stars before Gadgetzan.

 

[Pooya]

They said the pack has increased chance of getting a legendary. 9 out of 23 legs in this set are quests. So you have a high chance of getting a quest which is completely unplayable as those cards are all build around. They probably should remove the quests from the pack.

 

[Dahbomb]

No one mentioned it but Golakkra Crawler is straight up power creep over River Croc. For the purposes of that bingo card that's relevant.

Also Tar Creeper is straight up power creep over Amgam Rager.

 

[Zoggy]

Control Rogue and Control Hunter never have any problems with hand sizes. Will be very fun in classes like that, giving them something to do while they wait to draw their sick combo one by one.

My only worry with new Elise is how strongly basically everything punishes strict card value decks these days and even a single card shuffle like White Eye is too slow to get to.

Would be like 6 stars before Gadgetzan.

Control hunter roflmao.

Will never happen

No draw
No AOE
No heal
Only one card that's hard removal. 2 if you count freezing trap (which is a shitty version of sap)




Why don't you try aggro priest?

 

[Zoggy]

Hunter needs a glaivezooka reprint or an early game weapon.

They've only got one weapon since gvg. And it's slow as all hell.

Even eaglehorn bow, their best weapon is just a 3 mana war axe because everyone knows how to play around hunter secrets.

While paladins, shamans and warriors get one every damn expac/adventure. It's bullshit.

Shaman especially since every weapon it's gotten has been good. Yeah jade and spirit claws are bonkers but even storm forged axe and twilight hammer are damn solid.

Edit: forgot charged hammer which gives you a great hero power.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

No one mentioned it but Golakkra Crawler is straight up power creep over River Croc. For the purposes of that bingo card that's relevant.

Also Tar Creeper is straight up power creep over Amgam Rager.

We go over this every expansion. It's not power creep.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Ah, I see we've reached the point where we're calling Stormforged Axe and Charged Hammer good.

I mean, if you want to talk about Shaman weapons, the only one seeing any play at all right now is Jade Claws and that's only in Jade decks. Spirit Claws is not good enough after the nerf. Twilight Hammer is really the only other decent Shaman weapon and for the time being it's too slow.

 

[Zoggy]

Spirit claws was meta-defining before its nerf.

We're talking about cards in their prime. There's no shaman who didn't run spirit claws pre-nerf (which was for 7 months).

And yes storm axe and charged hammer would have been played in all other classes definitely and are good(not OP, but viable).

Why didn't shaman play them? They either had

1)jade or spirit claws

Or before that

2)muthafuckin' doom hammer

 

[bjaelke]

No one mentioned it but Golakkra Crawler is straight up power creep over River Croc. For the purposes of that bingo card that's relevant.

(i know that card is in wild)

 

[Szadek]

Spirit claws was meta-defining before its nerf.

We're talking about cards in their prime. There's no shaman who didn't run spirit claws pre-nerf (which was for 7 months).

And yes storm axe and charged hammer would have been played in all other classes definitely and are good(not OP, but viable).

Why didn't shaman play them? They either had

1)jade or spirit claws

Or before that

2)muthafuckin' doom hammer

Storm axe was never good and charged hammer is just way too slow.
Axe shouldn't have overload and 2 attack weapons are pretty weak in general.
Doomhammer is basically a 4 attack weapon when it comes to hitting face that benefits twice as much from buffs and jade just has a very good effect.

Powermace is better than Hammer and Axe, but it's still not a great card.
Most of the time, it was just a shitty War Axe, but that was still better than what shaman had until recently.

 

[Drkirby]

I sorta think elise will be better than people expect. It depends on how the RNG is weighted in terms of favorability but it adds a spell to your deck that is like cabalist's tome on steroids.

Yeah, I have played a decent amount of Burgle Rouge, so I have a decent idea of what 5 random cards is worth. +5 cards, no matter how crappy, is pretty good. Blizard may have even made sure they didn't print any "Do Nothing" cards this expansion, like Totemic Might or Shatter.

I think Elise will be a staple in slower decks.

 

[MrDenny]

auctioneer + finja + conceal is so annoying.
Glad conceal is going away.

 

[squidyj]

Yeah, I have played a decent amount of Burgle Rouge, so I have a decent idea of what 5 random cards is worth. +5 cards, no matter how crappy, is pretty good. Blizard may have even made sure they didn't print any "Do Nothing" cards this expansion, like Totemic Might or Shatter.

I think Elise will be a staple in slower decks.

ehhh those are class cards from a single class.
i think you get less quality out of elise but 5 cards for one input is pretty good.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Storm axe was never good and charged hammer is just way too slow.
Axe shouldn't have overload and 2 attack weapons are pretty weak in general.
Doomhammer is basically a 4 attack weapon when it comes to hitting face that benefits twice as much from buffs and jade just has a very good effect.

Powermace is better than Hammer and Axe, but it's still not a great card.
Most of the time, it was just a shitty War Axe, but that was still better than what shaman had until recently.

Yup, before aggro Shaman took off and Spirit Claws came about, weapons were pretty much a nonexistent part of Shaman's game.

Doomhammer was used somewhat irregularly as extra burst alongside Al'Akir but Harrison was pretty much everywhere at that time which ended up making it see a middling amount of use. Now that Rockbiter is nerfed it isn't used at all.

Stormforged Axe has never seen play as far as I'm aware. When Trogg came out I know some people tried to make it work but it just ended up not being worth it because the weapon is not good enough.

Powermace was fine but restricted to mechs. Charged Hammer was far too weak of a weapon for being so slow and nobody was able to make it work.

Spirit Claws was the best weapon Shaman had ever gotten and now with the nerfs it's pretty much dead. Not saying it didn't deserve the nerf it got but I can't imagine it ever seeing regular play again.

Jade Claws, while a good card, is pretty much restricted to the Jade archetype. That's how it should be of course but the weapon is mostly irrelevant to the class as a whole.

Outside of Jade decks I feel like Hammer of Twilight is the only viable weapon for Shaman right now but it's just a tad too slow when put up against some of the aggro decks out there right now. If, by some grace of god, the meta actually manages to slow down then I can see Shaman start trying to fit Hammer of Twilight in to some lists. Personally I think the card is pretty underrated.

Shaman has never been a class about weapons though and trying to paint it as such is just wrong. Outside of Doomhammer in aggro and the several month long run with Spirit Claws it just has not been part of what Shaman focuses on.

 

[fertygo]

err Hammer of Twilight pretty much meta pick since Spirit Claw nerf

Altho Shamans number really far reduced.

 

[Zoggy]

Yup, before aggro Shaman took off and Spirit Claws came about, weapons were pretty much a nonexistent part of Shaman's game.

Doomhammer was used somewhat irregularly as extra burst alongside Al'Akir but Harrison was pretty much everywhere at that time which ended up making it see a middling amount of use. Now that Rockbiter is nerfed it isn't used at all.

Stormforged Axe has never seen play as far as I'm aware. When Trogg came out I know some people tried to make it work but it just ended up not being worth it because the weapon is not good enough.

Powermace was fine but restricted to mechs. Charged Hammer was far too weak of a weapon for being so slow and nobody was able to make it work.

Spirit Claws was the best weapon Shaman had ever gotten and now with the nerfs it's pretty much dead. Not saying it didn't deserve the nerf it got but I can't imagine it ever seeing regular play again.

Jade Claws, while a good card, is pretty much restricted to the Jade archetype. That's how it should be of course but the weapon is mostly irrelevant to the class as a whole.

Outside of Jade decks I feel like Hammer of Twilight is the only viable weapon for Shaman right now but it's just a tad too slow when put up against some of the aggro decks out there right now. If, by some grace of god, the meta actually manages to slow down then I can see Shaman start trying to fit Hammer of Twilight in to some lists. Personally I think the card is pretty underrated.

Shaman has never been a class about weapons though and trying to paint it as such is just wrong. Outside of Doomhammer in aggro and the several month long run with Spirit Claws it just has not been part of what Shaman focuses on.

Even if you're 100% right (you're not) the fact still remains that shaman has gotten a weapon nearly every damn expansion. While other weapon classes have not(besides maybe warrior who has win axe and gore howl which is GOAT). They still got kings defender and fools name which both saw constructed play.

All of those shaman weapons are viable on some way.

 

[bluehat9]

Wow, played a rogue in arena that was almost a jade constructed. Aya, two of the 1/1 stealth guys, jade spirit, and the ninja star card that summons one. Meanwhile I have a warlock that could have had three bomb squad and five fists of jaraxxus, but no aoe.

 

[ZealousD]

Aracanologist is like 1-2 mana worse (in terms of value) than mad scientist (in mage).

This might be true, and yet Arcanologist is still an OP card.

I mean, we're just pointing out how insanely broken Mad Scientist is when we make comparisons like this.