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[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think it breaks down into largely two categories.

good:
Divine Shield - minibot
Deathrattle: Summon 2 1/1. - haunted creeper
+1/+1 - chargeless alex champ
+3 Health - 2 mana version of that 3 drop with 2/5
+3 Attack - 2 mana ice rager

bad:
Poisonous - basically worse pit snake
Taunt - worse frostwolf grunt
Windfury - terrible
Stealth - terrible
Elusive - worse faerie dragon

It is a lot of conditions to hit for this card to be strong though, so I think it falls along the lines of a 3.

 

[Peléo]

I think it breaks down into largely two categories.

good:
Divine Shield - minibot
Deathrattle: Summon 2 1/1. - haunted creeper
+1/+1 - chargeless alex champ
+3 Health - 2 mana version of that 3 drop with 2/5
+3 Attack - 2 mana ice rager

bad:
Poisonous - basically worse pit snake
Taunt - worse frostwolf grunt
Windfury - terrible
Stealth - terrible
Elusive - worse faerie dragon

It is a lot of conditions to hit for this card to be strong though, so I think it falls along the lines of a 3.

I think Taunt might be more on the good side. If you are playing it on early game you are most of the times protecting your other 2 minions from Ping.

What will make or break this card is how often you will be able to activate its effect.

 

[Pooya]

on curve it's not that easy to enable the condition. both of your 1/1s need to live, against some slow deck is possible, going first makes it much better than second too, so it's not that straight forward, you can play around it. Later in the game when you play 2 cards together, yeah it will work every time but also has less impact.

Half of the options are just bad on this but with discover you're likely to get one of the good 5s.

odds of not getting any of the good 5s is like 5*4*3/10*9*8, 8%.

90 percent of times you have a good outcome, still the variance between the good ones is pretty high depending on the match up but you're happy with any of them in general.

It's good overall, it will see play. 2 drops aren't exactly competitive after rotation. This is one of the better ones. You have to be very unlucky to not get any of good outcomes. It will happen and you will be sad, this is Hearthstone.

 

[Peléo]

on curve it's not that easy to enable the condition. both of your 1/1s need to live, against some slow deck is possible, going first makes it much better than second too, so it's not that straight forward, you can play around it. Later in the game when you play 2 cards together, yeah it will work every time but also has less impact.

Half of the options are just bad on this but with discover you're likely to get one of the good 5s.

odds of not getting any of the good 5s is like 5*4*3/10*9*8, 8%.

90 percent of times you have a good outcome, still the variance between the good ones is pretty high depending on the match up but you're happy with any of them in general.

It's good overall, it will see play. 2 drops aren't exactly competitive after rotation. This is one of the better ones. You have to be very unlikely to not get any of good outcomes. It will happen and you will be sad, this is Hearthstone.

Yes, you have a 92% of hitting at least 1 good outcome, 50% of hitting at least 2 good outcomes and 8% of hitting 3 good ones.

Also, just remembered Hunter got the 2-Drop 3/2 Dinosaur which adapts a friendly Beast. That card should see play in Hunter instead of this.

 

[DSmalls84]

Anyone know when the packs will be sent out for the choose your champion rewards?

 

[Zemm]

Drama with the Hearthstone streamers: https://compete.kotaku.com/blizzard...m_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

wow, good work Blizzard (genuinely) getting rid of p4wny, easily the worst person that I know of in the HS community.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Got my tournament packs, nothing good.

 

[NBtoaster]

Funny that within the same set there's a class card that's an almost strictly better version of a neutral card.

I'll be happy if that's the worst of the pack filler this time. At least it's not a bad card to get from random summon effects.

 

[wiibomb]

Funny that within the same set there's a class card that's an almost strictly better version of a neutral card.


I'll be happy if that's the worst of the pack filler this time. At least it's not a bad card to get from random summon effects.

that is exactly how HS is, the class cards are generally better than the cards found for neutrals, at least that is the idea.

 

[NBtoaster]

that is exactly how HS is, the class cards are generally better than the cards found for neutrals, at least that is the idea.

It doesn't usually happen within the same set though. This set has otherwise been a step up in creativity but stuff like that is kind of lame.

 

[Yaboosh]

Do we even know if Stegodon is collectable?

 

[NBtoaster]

Do we even know if Stegodon is collectable?

It is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthston...earthside_chat_the_art_of_journey_to/dfkh98a/

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

It's not even strictly better because beast tag. And defias silence guy can silence the priest taunt due to deathrattle lol

 

[ZealousD]

Alright, here are my descriptions for each of the star ratings. Let me know if you guys think anything should be adjusted. My intent is to actually rate cards slightly lower than Dahbomb and I had done for MSG, maybe pushing out some 3's and moving them into the 2's. Like, I noticed that we had rated Hired Gun as a 3-star card, but in retrospect you're probably never going to consider a card like that in constructed, so maybe 2-star is a better rating. And maybe that will help solve some of the issues we had with the wide range of power levels we had in the 3-star section last time.


5 Stars - Insane. These cards are the most powerful cards in the set. The meta can shift by their very presence. They are the superstar cards of the best of the best decks. They may be able to singlehandedly move the power of a deck a couple tiers higher in the meta reports than they would otherwise. When people think of the defining cards of the set, they think of these cards. When people call for nerfs, they think of these cards.

4 Stars - Very Good. These cards are powerful enough that they become staple cards in competitive or serious decks. Cutting it from a competitive deck and trying to swap in something else would almost never be recommended because the card is too important to the deck's overall strategy. There are some cases where a card this good doesn't see much play, but usually only because the meta is in a weird enough place where a typically competitive strategy or class simply cannot compete with whatever the specific meta seems to be doing.

3 Stars - Fair. These cards are not powerful enough to be deck-defining cards in playable decks nor are they bad enough that you would never consider them. They're somewhere in the middle of the road, and cards in this range could jump in and out of the meta depending on how it changes, either within the current set or possibly even future sets. These cards are never worth dismissing out of hand because it's always possible that they could be good enough to see play if the meta calls for them.

2 Stars - Kinda Bad - These cards are generally unplayable under most circumstances. They may be good in very specific or very niche situations but you would almost never seriously consider putting them in a competitive deck. They're just too awkward or clunky to see use realistically. However, if you get a card like this from a random effect, it might be situationally good enough that you could still find a good use for it. Maybe you could create a meme deck with a card like this?

1 Star - Garbage - These cards are unplayable in all circumstances. You would never consider adding these cards to your deck, nor would you ever be happy getting one off a random effect. It does nothing and has little reason to exist. You probably will never even know what voice lines or visual effects these cards may have because you will never even see them. Not even in arena. Throw them in the dumpster.

 

[gutshot]

I think those descriptions sound pretty good to me. It's a clear set of tiers. Maybe include a couple example cards for each?

 

[ZealousD]

I think those descriptions sound pretty good to me. It's a clear set of tiers. Maybe include a couple example cards for each?

I thought about it but wondered if that might introduce more problems than it would solve. Even with cards currently in the game I think some people would dispute what tier certain cards should go in.

I will acknowledge that the last part of the 4-star section might cause a bit of confusion. I kind of put that in there for a card like Alley Cat, which is a staple Hunter card but Hunter doesn't see play so Alley Cat doesn't see much play. But it's still a really good and powerful card on its own.

 

[Peléo]

I thought about it but wondered if that might introduce more problems than it would solve. Even with cards currently in the game I think some people would dispute what tier certain cards should go in.

I will acknowledge that the last part of the 4-star section might cause a bit of confusion. I kind of put that in there for a card like Alley Cat, which is a staple Hunter card but Hunter doesn't see play so Alley Cat doesn't see much play. But it's still a really good and powerful card on its own.

Anub' Arak was the card I thought of when I read your description.

 

[Dahbomb]

Funny that within the same set there's a class card that's an almost strictly better version of a neutral card.


I'll be happy if that's the worst of the pack filler this time. At least it's not a bad card to get from random summon effects.

There have been far worse example than that in the history of Hearthstone. Class cards generally tend to have higher stats than neutral minions.

Silverback Patriarch vs Fierce Monkey for example is way worse than that.

 

[ZealousD]

Anub' Arak was the card I thought of when I read your description.

I would rate Anub'arak a 2-star card under these descriptions. He's extremely powerful against very specific classes under specific circumstances. He's poor in an aggro meta and most metas are aggro metas so Anub'arak is too niche and too awkward. That's why he never saw serious play.

 

[QFNS]

That 1 star definition is really tough to meet. Complete trash? I can't think of many cards that are so bad you wouldn't even want them in arena. I guess this will just mean many cards will fall on the 2-3 points in the scale. Which I guess makes sense for a supposedly "balanced" game.

 

[scarlet]

Do we have to acore all 135 cards?

 

[ZealousD]

That 1 star definition is really tough to meet. Complete trash? I can't think of many cards that are so bad you wouldn't even want them in arena. I guess this will just mean many cards will fall on the 2-3 points in the scale. Which I guess makes sense for a supposedly "balanced" game.

1-star and 5-star are suppose to be tough to meet as they're intended for the extreme outliers. You might only have half a dozen cards in each.

For reference, the 1-star cards in the last set were Backstreet Leper, Blubber Baron, Worgen Greaser, Grook Fu Master, Wind-Up Burglebot, Madam Goya, and Bloodfury Potion.

 

[Szadek]

That 1 star definition is really tough to meet. Complete trash? I can't think of many cards that are so bad you wouldn't even want them in arena. I guess this will just mean many cards will fall on the 2-3 points in the scale. Which I guess makes sense for a supposedly "balanced" game.

Well, that's kind of the point.
Cards that bad probably shouldn't even exists.

 

[Drkirby]

I think we should really rate cards on how good we feel they will be in Standard Constructed. If its decent in arena but unplayable in Standard, I think it should be considered 1 star.

 

[Szadek]

I think we should really rate cards on how good we feel they will be in Standard Constructed. If its decent in arena but unplayable in Standard, I think it should be considered 1 star.

An decent arena card is probably still an alright discover target if nothing else, which makes not totally useless.

 

[ZealousD]

I think we should really rate cards on how good we feel they will be in Standard Constructed. If its decent in arena but unplayable in Standard, I think it should be considered 1 star.

Yes, the ratings will be for Standard Constructed. We aren't pushing all the unplayable cards into the 1-star category because there can be a huge difference in power even between cards that are considered unplayable. That difference can mean a lot if you're trying to decide between unplayable cards in a Discover situation, for instance.

 

[SonicXtreme]

bloodfury potion is p nasty in wild demon decks, i've def seen it at good ranks in those decks. particularly harsh when it hits on imp gang boss

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The way I looked at rating last time is simple for me.

1 - probably will never see play in the upcoming expansion

example: gadgetzan ferryman, that 2 drop that heals 2

2 - maybe, in niche decks that aren't great to begin with, and that's very few decks if any

example: madam goya, auctioneer beardo

3 - could populate decks where it fits, and actually be strong if it fits well

example: jade lightning, devolve, shadowcaster

4 - Strong cards that you want to fit, although you may not be capable of it due to competing with other cards. These are far from filler but also aren't necessarily cornerstone cards that define your deck, although in some cases can be.

example: Lotus assassin, dragonfire potion, jade idol, abyssal enforcer

5 - These cards come closest to being the foundation of your deck. You want to run these cards. They're essential to your deck and deck defining. You build or warp your deck to fit these. They usually aren't the means, they are the end.

example: mysterious challenger, drakonid operative, auctioneer

If there was a 6 star, I'd say these are the auto-includes (not to be taken literally). They're so good, so widely powerful, you include them in most decks. These are the cards that are usually so good they should be addressed by blizzard.

example - dr. boom, pilotted shredder

5 star system is adequate though.

 

[Eddie Bax]

New card revealed by Kripp:

Spiritsinger Umbra
4 mana neutral Legendary, 3/4
"When you summon a minion, trigger its deathrattle effect."

Seems pretty good.

 

[Tagyhag]

Princess Huhuran has been getting shitted on this expansion.

But anyways, great card.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

that's basically brann for deathrattles but worse.

 

[Dahbomb]

New card revealed by Kripp:

Spiritsinger Umbra
4 mana neutral Legendary, 3/4
"When you summon a minion, trigger its deathrattle effect."

Seems pretty good.

To bad this is a Legendary because we really needed a card like this to utilize some of the super slow Deathrattles in the game.

 

[jgminto]

Probably the best Deathrattle trigger so far, can't enable the same Reincarnate shenanigans Rivendare could but a lot more viable otherwise.

 

[Dart]

Great for Deathrattle priest deck

 

[Drkirby]

Seems like a card that will be really strong in wild.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Guess that's one of the reasons Sylvanas went into the HoF. Seems like a decent card. Not overly insane but decent.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Spiritsinger Umbra + Selfless Hero seem annoying. Might be one of the most seen interaction

For more crazy stuff, Shaman can now get 4 Storm Guardian into their deck over the course of a game they play Spiritsinger Umbra White Eyes and Ancestral Spirit. That is basically a Taunt factory

Emperor, and then Spiritsinger Umbra + Dr Boom + Baron Rivendare seems fun in Wild. Possible 16 random damage?

Speaking of Wild, I wonder how Dreadsteed interacts with it after the move?

 

[Ikkarus]

I really dig the death rattle legendary. Another good target for Barnes to pull out too since it's effect is permanent whilst on the field.

I can't wait to begin building the priest death rattle deck when this set drops.

 

[Dart]

Spiritsinger Umbra + Selfless Hero seem annoying. Might be one of the most seen interaction

For more crazy stuff, Shaman can now get 4 Storm Guardian into their deck over the course of a game they play Spiritsinger Umbra White Eyes and Ancestral Spirit. That is basically a Taunt factory

Emperor, and then Spiritsinger Umbra + Dr Boom + Baron Rivendare seems fun in Wild. Possible 16 random damage?

Speaking of Wild, I wonder how Dreadsteed interacts with it after the move?

Dreadsteed is an interesting one, I imagine since it says minions 'summoned' it would chain into a board full of them. Too bad it's wild now.

What about living mana though....

 

[zoukka]

That why you ban deck in tourney

But seriouslyl tho frigging malygos kun aviana deck exist in this meta

Why dropping 1 card is harder than that

Malygos kills on the turn it drops...

 

[Drkirby]

Baron Rivendare and Spiritsinger Umbra should stack, right? So that if you play a minion with both in play, its death rattle should activate twice on play.

 

[Dahbomb]

OMG that card is crazy with Dreadsteed! Instant full board of Steeds.

 

[Drkirby]

Ok, so turn 8, you have 6 undying 1/1s, and this 3/4. Then what?

 

[Yaboosh]

Ok, so turn 8, you have 6 undying 1/1s, and this 3/4. Then what?

Turn 9 malganis.



Having a consistent way to produce a board full of dreadsteeds is a pretty big deal for that deck.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

I kind of wonder how pissed off people are going to be when, in a month's time, the meta is Pirate Warrior, Face Hunter and Zoolock lol.

 

[Butane123]

What about living mana though....

I was wondering about this too...

Seems like the Hunter might like it with stuff like Savannah Highmane, Kindly Grandmother, and small raptor.

 

[Dahbomb]

I kind of wonder how pissed off people are going to be when, in a month's time, the meta is Pirate Warrior, Face Hunter and Zoolock lol.

I think that new weapon hate card is going to give PW a lot of trouble.

 

[Zoggy]

Yes!!!

Dreadlock is back baby

 

[Blizzard]

I'd personally prefer a 1-10 scale for doing card ratings, but I suppose writing the tier descriptions would be hard.

 

[Szadek]

Very powerful card in the right deck and meta.
It will probably be very scary in wild, but might not quite make the cut in standard.