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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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S

Szadek

Member
I'm pretty sure the name of the brawl should be Coin Tossing Simulation.

Anyway, I'm not seeing how goons , jades or renos are supposed to deal with shamans and pirats consitently.
Shamans can always start running earthshock if nessary, which is now better than ever (at least in a vaccum) since they play so much spellpower.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
manhack said:
I'm hoping at least 2 or 3 decks can emerge that have a positive match up vs. Shaman. If not Blizzard will have to do something. If only 1 deck emerges that won't be enough.

Sadly this follows the undertaker scenario exactly. We had to wait for an expansion to fail to solve the meta before they took the nerfbat to undertaker.

Unlike the undertaker meta there is no single card, at least by known stats, that accounts for the Shaman being so dominant.

They just have an amazing weapon, early game minion, efficient board clears, tempo taunt minion, spell damage synergy, one of the best single target removals and insane late game.

The power level isn't going down tomorrow, but hopefully the deck can be truly countered so it isn't the only choice for serious ladder climbing.
Click to expand...

It's thing from below. Reno mage gets to play 1 0 mana 5/5 and it's a legendary and you must have 0 dupes left and you must have 7 mana and a higher cost spell worth casting the same turn.

Shaman gets 2 of those with almost none of the same restrictions. On turn 7 they can play 2 5/5s with taunt and any number of cards up to 7 mana. Inkmaster solia does like half that.
 
F

fertygo

Member
Pretty sure you don't want more reactive card if you planned mid shamy more solid vs druid or renolock

put more high health minion like waterspeaker is the answer

whatever I fuck their shit regardless
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Szadek said:
I'm pretty sure the name of the brawl should be Coin Tossing Simulation.

Anyway, I'm not seeing how goons , jades or renos are supposed to deal with shamans and pirats consitently.
Shamans can always start running earthshock if nessary, which is now better than ever (at least in a vaccum) since they play so much spellpower.
Click to expand...
They designed the tri-classes to be like rock paper scissors to each other.

Goons beat Jade. Goons are able to ramp up faster than Jade and put up pressure/big stuff before Jade can get their stuff set up.

Jade beats Kabal. Kabal is slow, AOE/removal driven. Jade has enough time to ramp up to massive Jades and then beat Kabal with the Jades.

Kabal beats Goons. Goons have a bunch of minion buffs and that's about it, it's not that easy for them to get massive minions like Jade, just over statted minions that are still within AOE range. And once their minions get removed they are pretty much done for which plays right into Kabal.


This all sounds fine in theory but the current tempo/midrange decks beat all three of these strategies as they just start out faster. Zoo, Shaman, Tempo Mage... they are still going to walk all over that.
 
F

FormallyFamicom

Member
Dahbomb said:
This all sounds fine in theory but the current tempo/midrange decks beat all three of these strategies as they just start out faster. Zoo, Shaman, Tempo Mage... they are still going to walk all over that.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's also how I kinda see things shaking out. In the google docs voting I gave very few of the tri-class cards more than a 3. I think a Jade deck will make it into the meta but I'm not sold on the Goons at all.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
The advantage of some of the Goons cards is that some of them you may not even need to play in a Goon specialized deck to be good. Like honestly you can throw Don Hancho in any Midrange type deck and he can do work. Or that Warrior Legendary you can throw in a Face Warrior deck.

Jade and Kabal need very specific decks. Well except Druid which can just run one copy of Jade Idol if need be.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
fertygo said:
Druid has no trouble beating shaman, zoolock is worse matchup

Mid shamy is not really locking down the meta tbh, plenty deck can beat it.. its pretty much the saving grace tbh, the most dominant deck is slow enough to made various deck could breath

Pirate warrior hopefully not that brokeshit to be able consistently win against druid or shamy, or its gonna be worse than mid shamy meta
Click to expand...

You can beat mid-shammy with other good decks, but not reliably. That's the whole point, midrange shaman is by and large the most consistent deck in the meta. They have no real weaknesses. Usually druid only wins with a bombastic Fandral/Malygos turn and those are not reliable.

Shammy just drops incredibly efficient cards on curve and if you don't follow, you are dead.
 
M

manhack

Member
fertygo said:
Druid has no trouble beating shaman, zoolock is worse matchup

Mid shamy is not really locking down the meta tbh, plenty deck can beat it.. its pretty much the saving grace tbh, the most dominant deck is slow enough to made various deck could breath

Pirate warrior hopefully not that brokeshit to be able consistently win against druid or shamy, or its gonna be worse than mid shamy meta
Click to expand...

According to this http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/heroic-tale-heroic-tavern-brawl-analysis/

Shaman has no unfavorable match ups. I agree that many of us are having some luck against Shamans with some decks. I even have a positive winrate vs. shaman over the last couple of days with various decks.

The issue is that overall there is nothing contesting Shaman for top spot. Face Hunter appears to be close, Freeze Mage does well too, but none of these can break the very important >50% mark.
 
F

fertygo

Member
zoukka said:
You can beat mid-shammy with other good decks, but not reliably. That's the whole point, midrange shaman is by and large the most consistent deck in the meta. They have no real weaknesses. Usually druid only wins with a bombastic Fandral/Malygos turn and those are not reliable.

Shammy just drops incredibly efficient cards on curve and if you don't follow, you are dead.
Click to expand...
Current mid shamy is not even curve deck tho, thing is gonna much easier if shit is curve deck


manhack said:
According to this http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/heroic-tale-heroic-tavern-brawl-analysis/

Shaman has no unfavorable match ups. I agree that many of us are having some luck against Shamans with some decks. I even have a positive winrate vs. shaman over the last couple of days with various decks.

The issue is that overall there is nothing contesting Shaman for top spot. Face Hunter appears to be close, Freeze Mage does well too, but none of these can break the very important >50% mark.
Click to expand...
oh trust me I know that, I serious not downplaying one of best deck archetype, I just don't think its lock down and made you can't play these new card at all
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I have a 90% win rate against Shaman using Freeze Mage but some of these Shaman players are very obviously bad. Bad players just pick the best deck and over perform with them, that's just how it is. Can't just look at your own stats and experiences.

When it comes to high Legend and tournament play where Shamans are being piloted by good players.. there are no consistent counters. And by counter I mean a match up that is better than 55/45 and even that is hardly within counter range.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
fertygo said:
Current mid shamy is not even curve deck tho, thing is gonna much easier if shit is curve deck
Click to expand...

Semantics. Midrange shaman curves out very well. It doesn't have to, which just proves it's goddamn OP, but you'll see plenty of matches where the shaman drops Trogg, Golem, Flametongue, Thing from Below, Drake/Bluff and you say GG.

The magic of the deck is indeed it's versatility, if you don't get board control they will. If you curve out yourself, they have the removal to deal with the board. If you wipe their board, they have the card draw and late game threats like no other deck... it's bonkers.
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
Reno Mage will probably be the first deck I'll try to optimise. I loved playing control mage in TES:L and Solia reminds me of (the old):

270px-LG-card-Nahkriin%2C_Dragon_Priest.png
Click to expand...

Though I wish she would have had (at the very least) the draw a card tag as well. Still I think a 10-mana Kazakus potion on turn 7 with a 5/5 might be worth it.
 
P

Pooya

Member
TESL has many discount cards like that, I love it so much, you can have some really good turns in that game :p

---

It'd have been really good if the expansion pack was out like right now. This is the time you want people to start streaming stuff.
 
P

Pooya

Member
I have almost 10k gold. My dust is almost all on the button unfortunately, about 15k. Then I have all the monthly golden cards that I didn't de.

I don't want to spend too much on this set. From those new card backs, next set could arrive as early as March. There isn't enough time to save up too much and that set is a 2 year set, it's more important.

I want to have..

-all 3 heads. They're all solid really.

-Shaman, Paladin, druid and priest legendary. They're all interesting cards, druid one is gimmicky somewhat but I love playing ramp druid, it's the most fun deck. Playing big stuff is fun.

-Patches the pirate, playing 29 card deck should be pretty good.

that's like 8. I need to get lucky, I can craft like 4.


Beardo, Wrathion and warrior legendary are interesting but I wouldn't want to craft. I don't think they're all that useful or even good but nice to have.

Hopefully I can avoid the rest, they're some stinkers in here.
 
C

cHinzo

Member
Playing Beardo in some kind of Shadow Priest deck together with Raza could be pretty fun since ur hero power wouldn't cost any mana. 🤔
 
F

Finalow

Member
Ladekabel said:
I'd love to be proven wrong about Wrathion but what spells would you cut and what dragons would you include and what spells would you cut?
Click to expand...
don't worry, you'll be proven wrong soon enough.
doesn't matter what I'd cut, I'm not the one who's gonna test and see what's the best dragon priest deck list.
 
F

fertygo

Member
Druud already play like jade golem decks nowadays.. I dont see much differences


I only play an average of 5-6 6+ drop per game as druid

Cool to play 1 or 2 more
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
I was wondering if goon cards will make mediocre cards from the actual set into beasts that will change completely the meta since it willl be hard to deal with them, like, a 2 mana 3/4 without overload and some other effect that will push him
 
Z

zoukka

Member
sibarraz said:
I was wondering if goon cards will make mediocre cards from the actual set into beasts that will change completely the meta since it willl be hard to deal with them, like, a 2 mana 3/4 without overload and some other effect that will push him
Click to expand...

Cards that have direct advantages with higher stats will benefit from goons. The new kodo is the best example, it becomes pretty insane if you buff the attack 1-2 times.
 
K

Kettch

Member
Dahbomb said:
Yeah I don't either. Maelstorm Portal, Storm, Spirit Claws, early minions etc. ends up stopping it in my experience. Shaman can just tech in some heals and weapon removal to beat Pirate Warrior cold if they want to but they don't need to do it so they don't.

But other people seem to be putting stock into it. Then again other people seem to think Renolock does well against Midrange Shaman so whatever.
Click to expand...

Everybody should be running an Ooze in midrange Shaman anyway. I've won so many mirror matches where the opponent goes turn 1 Spirit Claws pass into my turn 2 Ooze, it's disgusting.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Kettch said:
Everybody should be running an Ooze in midrange Shaman anyway. I've won so many mirror matches where the opponent goes turn 1 Spirit Claws pass into my turn 2 Ooze, it's disgusting.
Click to expand...

I don't think the shaman lost the game because of that alone.
 
S

sibarraz

Banned
which is better? put ooze and destroy a turn 1 claw, or draw harrison and pray that you live long enough to see a second claw/the opp has the first claw on turn 5 and draw the cards?
 
G

gutshot

Member
sibarraz said:
I was wondering if goon cards will make mediocre cards from the actual set into beasts that will change completely the meta since it willl be hard to deal with them, like, a 2 mana 3/4 without overload and some other effect that will push him
Click to expand...

They are going to make certain charge cards pretty broken. Imagine a 6/5 Kor'kron or 8 damage Leeroy. That's why I'm going to try running Brass Knuckles, and maybe even Griny Gadgeteer, in my Pirate Warrior deck.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
Szadek said:
They aren't going to do anything in arena, except for tanking your winrate.
Click to expand...

Depends on the offering bonus. Both Shamans and Rogues have a good "Jade-anchor" in the Shuriken and the 4 mana deal 4 damage-card, and if those are auto-picks then every other Jade pick becomes insane.

My crazy bet? Mage will not be top 3 in the arena if there is a 100% offering bonus to MSG. 3 of Rogue, Warlock, Shaman, Priest will be better.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Dahbomb said:
I think right now people are looking towards Dragon Priest to be the answer to Midrange Shaman in MSG.
Click to expand...

Is it even an answer? The deck got better but I still have the impression that Dragon Priest will struggle to deal with that early game. It might only become an "answer" in the way that Tempo Mage is an "answer".
 
P

patchday

Member
Dahbomb said:
I have a 90% win rate against Shaman using Freeze Mage but some of these Shaman players are very obviously bad. Bad players just pick the best deck and over perform with them, that's just how it is. Can't just look at your own stats and experiences.

When it comes to high Legend and tournament play where Shamans are being piloted by good players.. there are no consistent counters. And by counter I mean a match up that is better than 55/45 and even that is hardly within counter range.
Click to expand...

yeah I like facing Shaman on Standard ladder only because I farm them with freeze mage.
 
F

Finalow

Member
I kinda liked this video where amnesiac shows some smart plays with mid shaman and demonstrates how skill does indeed matter more than you might think.
.. wait, he still lost 2 games out 3. LolRNGstone
 
X

Xanathus

Member
ZealousD said:
Is it even an answer? The deck got better but I still have the impression that Dragon Priest will struggle to deal with that early game. It might only become an "answer" in the way that Tempo Mage is an "answer".
Click to expand...

Yup, based on the cards Dragon Priest hardly counters Mid Shaman, it's closer to 50-60%. The problem with Dragonfire Potion is that it costs a whopping 6 mana and doesn't actually swing the board if the opponent already has control. Someone playing around Dragonfire can simply clear your Dragon minions, then your non-Dragon minions also die.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Some of the best voice lines from the expansions

Gadgetzan Socialite: Applesauce!
Grimestreet Outfitter: Accidents. They happen, you know?
Public Defender: No body, no crime.
Backstreet Leper: YOU feel icky!
Celestial Dreamer: Form of... Dragon! (Wonder Twins reference)
Grimestreet Smuggler: What? They fell off a truck.
Manic Soulcaster: It only cost my soul!
Grimy Gadgeteer: I'd feel bad, but I don't.
Worgen Greaser: I ain't nothin' but a hound dog!
Bomb Squad: It's boom-o-clock!
Aya Blackpaw: Golems are a girl's best friend! (Also says "you're no fun" and wimpers when she dies).
Big-Time Racketeer: Say hello to my little friend! Ogre: Helloooo.
Wind-Up Burglebot: ROBBERY... COMMENCING
 
L

Levi

Banned
Oscar said:
Bit on the 50 for $50 preorder, fuck it.

Gonna focus on Control Warrior as usual and also find a Warlock (or Druid/Rogue) deck to climb ladder/farm the golden.
Click to expand...

Be sure to come back and post your Cwar lists; I have a few brews I'm working on. Not sure how good Cwar is going to be in the MSG meta but I'm excited to try and figure it out.

Mage is gonna be my second focus since that's the class I'm closest to getting Golden Hero with that I haven't already.
 
M

manhack

Member
sibarraz said:
I was wondering if goon cards will make mediocre cards from the actual set into beasts that will change completely the meta since it willl be hard to deal with them, like, a 2 mana 3/4 without overload and some other effect that will push him
Click to expand...

Possibly. I've definitely considered how crazy some of the one drops will be if they are buffed up.

The main drawback of goons seems to be the loss of tempo you take early game that you make up with strong stats mid game. Also the need to have minions in hand to get buffs can really put you in a tough spot based on draw.

I'm thinking that starting out with buffs early game, mid-game board clear (equality/Brawl) and taking over the board with buffed up minions. Not sure this is much better than the current way of playing , in the sense that you get screwed if you don't draw a board clear either way

Hunter might be the toughest because they rely on taking the board and keeping it because of no board clears. Will depend on how well some of the minions can curve into mid game.
 
F

Finalow

Member
ZealousD said:
Some of the best voice lines from the expansions

Gadgetzan Socialite: Applesauce!
Grimestreet Outfitter: Accidents. They happen, you know?
Public Defender: No body, no crime.
Backstreet Leper: YOU feel icky!
Celestial Dreamer: Form of... Dragon! (Wonder Twins reference)
Grimestreet Smuggler: What? They fell off a truck.
Manic Soulcaster: It only cost my soul!
Grimy Gadgeteer: I'd feel bad, but I don't.
Worgen Greaser: I ain't nothin' but a hound dog!
Bomb Squad: It's boom-o-clock!
Aya Blackpaw: Golems are a girl's best friend! (Also says "you're no fun" and wimpers when she dies).
Big-Time Racketeer: Say hello to my little friend! Ogre: Helloooo.
Wind-Up Burglebot: ROBBERY... COMMENCING
Click to expand...
some of those are pretty nice.
I also like the work they did with the gold cards animation, I'll probably end up crafting a couple of them.
 
G

gutshot

Member
CraigerGamer said:
So what time today should we expect servers to go down and at what time do we expect them to actually come back up?
Click to expand...

Servers shouldn't go down. They will just "flip the switch" at 10 AM PST, the same way Tavern Brawl goes live every week without any down time. You would have to log out and back in again if are logged in as the clock hits 10.
 
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