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[Ignatz Mouse]

This is starting to remind me of when people would argue about framerate between the Xbox and the PS2. It didn't really matter to me then, and I don't think the difference is going to matter much in the future. BD has a higher theoretical top end, true, but it's not like the HD-DVD movies look bad.

I suppoose what would be really impressive would be a VC-1 encoded stream at >30Mbits/sec.

 

[Raistlin]

True HD per Dolby is up to 4x more efficient than lossless PCM. I think in practive TrueHD encodes are around 5mbits tops... dont know about LPCM tracks, but I'd imagine they push about 12.

Just to note, if the above is correct then this title's average bitrate is pushing right at HD-DVD's peak.

38 - 12 = 26 (get rid of LPCM)

26 + 5 = 31 (add in TrueHD)





BTW - I'll try to do some research on the Sony AVC encoder. The initial posting was a bit Engrished ... but it mentioned April in the header. I'm guessing that was the expected time for the encoder to be ready.

Even assuming it didn't get delayed, It's unclear what titles would be using it due to timing.

 

[Raistlin]

Edit: your AVC link says its up to 2x more efficient than Mpeg2.

VC1 is over 3x more efficient.

So, VC 1 is still an overall bitrate savings compared to AVC..

so a 50mbit Mpeg 2 encode would be a 25 mbit AVC encode and a 16 mbit VC1 encode..

I'm going by what DarkJediKnight stated in the initial post. Can you post some references that show VC-1 to be 3x more effecient than MPEG2?


Looks like some research is in order to settle this stuff out.

 

[StoOgE]

Dolbys website claims 4 times more efficient (endgaget backs this up). More than likely that is peak.

As for VC1 encode, check endgadget or wikipedia, it goes into it... your link compares it to MPEG2 (up to twice as efficient), which still isnt as efficient as VC1(greater than 3 times)..

So, take the 38 and assume you can save just 5Mbit with TrueHD (a conservative number) and then assume you can save another 11Mbit with the VC1 codec and you get 22Mbit(3 times more efficient versus 2 times), well under the max (plenty of room for PiP stuff for BRD fans to make fun of :lol ).

Plus, as the NiN disk has shown, VC1 hits diminishing returns.. you can throw a 30mbit encode at it and there isnt any noticible gain. Its like running a game at 90FPS verus 60FPS.. sure its there, but can you really tell?

I really dont think the bitrate difference is that big of a deal... and I dont think disk size is either, if King Kong fit with all of its extras and a 3 hour run time, I dont see any future issues.

 

[Raistlin]

As for VC1 encode, check endgadget or wikipedia, it goes into it... your link compares it to MPEG2 (up to twice as efficient), which still isnt as efficient as VC1(greater than 3 times)..

I'll try to research this a bit when I get home. Off the top of my head though, 3x sounds like bullshit.


Kingdom of Heaven and Black Hawk Down are MPEG2, are they not? This weekend, I'll verify what the bitrates are (assuming the PS3 bitrate display is accurate). I don't know what it is off the top of my head, but let's say they average around 30mb/s.

All reviews have pointed to those encodes as being quite good. Everyone seems to put them in the 2nd tier for video quality, if not the top tier (depending on if the top tier is only containing outlayers like PotC, KingKong, etc).




So you mean to tell me that VC-1 encodes averaging 10mb/s are producing 1st-2nd tier transfers?

 

[Mrbob]

God Total HD is a waste. Screw your Warner for ****ing this up more with a new format disc that gimps both blu ray and hd dvd. If there is one thing HD DVD and Blu Ray fans should band together on is not buying any movies on this format and letting it die off quickly.

New numbers came out too, so perhaps we can get back to the takeover part.

 

[Christopher]

I really dont think the bitrate difference is that big of a deal... and I dont think disk size is either, if King Kong fit with all of its extras and a 3 hour run time, I dont see any future issues.

But the thing is that's what you think, who are you? Do you have some kind of industry or inside knowledge about transfers or what size can do?

Onix - is there a website that gives in depth reviews on Blu Ray and the transfers for each movie on an indivdual basis?

 

[Mrbob]

Here are the percentages for the week ending May 13. Extremely slow week overall it seems.

Numbers go BD/HDVD

Week 62/38
YTD 68/32
SI 57/43

Top sales:

Top 5 BD
1. Planet Earth 100.00
2. Night at the Museum 74.86
3. Deja Vu 70.34
4. Casino Royale 63.10
5. Dreamgirls 47.26

Top 5 HD DVD
1. Planet Earth 100.00
2. Smokin' Aces 20.41
3. Dreamgirls 18.20
4. Alpha Dog 14.58
5. Batman Begins 14.46

1. (1) Planet Earth HD DVD 100.00
2. (2) Planet Earth BD 66.03
3. (3) Night at the Museum BD 49.43
4. (4) Deja Vu BD 46.45
5. (7) Casino Royale BD 41.66
6. (5) Dreamgirls BD 31.21
7. (9) Smokin' Aces HD DVD 20.41
8. (6) Dreamgirls HD DVD 18.20
9. (-) Happy Feet BD 17.37
10. (-) The Departed BD 17.20



Thanks to Grubert at avsforum for posting these.

 

[VanMardigan]

Planet Earth HD DVD is kicking some serious tail right now. I'm about to pop it in and watch the second disc......at my wife's request. She's mesmerized (as am I) with the incredible scenes.

 

[NR1]

Here are the percentages for the week ending May 13. Extremely slow week overall it seems.

Numbers go BD/HDVD

Week 62/38
YTD 68/32
SI 57/43

I do not entirely understand how these numbers are supposed to be read... could someone explain briefly?

Clearly that first list is a ratio: "For every 62 Blu-rays sold, there are 38 HD-DVDs sold for the week." But what about those other numbers?

Top 5 BD
1. Planet Earth 100.00
2. Night at the Museum 74.86
3. Deja Vu 70.34
4. Casino Royale 63.10
5. Dreamgirls 47.26

MrBob said something about percentages, but in relation to what exactly? 100% adoption for Planet Earth? *Confused*

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I do not entirely understand how these numbers are supposed to be read... could someone explain briefly?

Clearly that first list is a ratio: "For every 62 Blu-rays sold, there are 38 HD-DVDs sold for the week." But what about those other numbers?

Top 5 BD
1. Planet Earth 100.00
2. Night at the Museum 74.86
3. Deja Vu 70.34
4. Casino Royale 63.10
5. Dreamgirls 47.26

MrBob said something about percentages, but in relation to what exactly? 100% adoption for Planet Earth? *Confused*

For every 100 Planet Earth sold, almost 75 copies of Night at the Museum was sold.

 

[jjasper]

Got my Letters from Iwo Jima today (no flags though) can't wait to give it a go tomorrow and see how it is.

 

[The Main Event]

It has to be a typo...800 HD DVD titles this year

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom052007/index.php

Page 32

 

[Raistlin]

StoOgE,

I just did a quick checkout of some scenes in Kingdom of Heaven and Black Hawk Down.


KoH : Many scenes are in the range of 20-25 Mb/s, while the more intense scenes are 26-30. A couple of peaks I saw were around 32 Mb/s.


BHD : This was a little higher on average, generally averaging 25-29 Mb/s, with the occasional peak around 31 Mb/s.




In other words, there ain't no way VC-1 is even close to 3 times as efficient as MPEG2. If that were the case, 8-9 Mb/s titles would look like Kingdom of Heaven and Black Hawk Down.

Ummm ... no



There are 1 of 3 possibilities here:

1) You are misinformed.

2) The info you read is complete bullshit.

3) That stat is based on a very old MPEG2 encoding algorithm, and was only stated as a PR move.

As with all of the codecs, MPEG2 has improved over the years. If anything, MPEG2 has had the most improvements due simply to how long people have been working at it, and the fact it was one of the early encoding methods (we're better at it now; the designers of the newer codecs were able to use 'lessons learned' right from the start).







Based on this, I'm thinking DarkJediKnight's figure is a lot closer to reality (at least of the current MPEG2 encoder). He stated that VC-1 is around 1.5x as efficient.

That would make these encodes (MPEG2 25-27 Mb/s average) in the neighborhood of 16-18 Mb/s. That probably is reasonable, if not a bit low for top tier transfers (I haven't seen too many VC-1 bitrate measurements to know what the similar quality transfers are hitting).


With this in mind, if the new AVC codec Sony was talking about is indeed 2x MPEG2 in efficiency ... then it really is more efficient than VC-1 as well ... and by a relatively significant amount (approximately 33%). Granted, I'd like to see further info on this before making that assumption.

 

[Mrbob]

It has to be a typo...800 HD DVD titles this year

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom052007/index.php

Page 32

Wait...Blu Ray has five exclusive studios, HD DVD has one. Yet only 43 more Blu Ray titles this year while 800 hd dvd titles? Yeah typo.

 

[The Main Event]

Wait...Blu Ray has five exclusive studios, HD DVD has one. Yet only 43 more Blu Ray titles this year while 800 hd dvd titles? Yeah typo.

The thing is, in the article it mentions the exact number of titles that will be released each month until December. The numbers for May and June do match up.

20 May
29 June
73 July
57 August
77 September
115 October
185 November
240 December

= 796 titles

I'm guessing it's a worldwide number, including the porn titles, the Studio Canal library in Europe, the indy studios and the Universal non-combo re-issues. But still, 440 titles for October, November and December? That's insane if it's not a mistake.

And the Heroes HD DVD set is up for pre-order on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000QTD5TS/panandscathed-20

$69.95

 

[JB1981]

MS is pimping Matrix Triology HD-DVD hard in the Xbox dashboard.
just watched some HD clips of The Matrix off Xbox Live and WOW at the quality.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Heh, there's a Pirates Blu-ray add at the bottom of this thread.

Are there any good online deals for these two? I may have to get them for the PQ alone.

 

[Khalid-S]

 

[bud]

darkman? liam neeson?? oh my god:lol

that movie had a classic scene when his face started to change the look on his face was just incredible.:lol

 

[distantmantra]

Heh, there's a Pirates Blu-ray add at the bottom of this thread.

Are there any good online deals for these two? I may have to get them for the PQ alone.

I don't know of any online deals, but the two films are $50 at Best Buy if purchased together, and you get a $15 gift card at Circuit City when you buy both movies ($29.99 each).

 

[captive]

Nice, is this the same as the DVD one? Cause if it is its like 100 bucks on DVD.. how much is it going to be on BRD and HD DVD. :lol

Can we freaking chill with the Dolby TrueHD vs PCM crap? Seriously both formats can do TrueHD, they both offer great sound, though some have suggested that PCM sounds marginally better.

Darkman? :lol :lol
I remember when that came out, i was like 5.

 

[Warm Machine]

Darkman was way ahead of its time. Poor Sam Raimi was always on the cutting edge and no one ever got the humor in his films. Quick and the Dead also suffered from audiences being too stupid to get it.

 

[VanMardigan]

MS is pimping Matrix Triology HD-DVD hard in the Xbox dashboard.
just watched some HD clips of The Matrix off Xbox Live and WOW at the quality.

I saw the tv ad, but when I tried to download the clips, it hit me with the "can't at your location" content crap that was implemented after the Spring Dashboard update. Considering that I'm legally US territory, it's time to give 'ole MS a call. This is the type of crap that can piss me off into doing something stupid, like selling my xbox. Seriously, I like using the Marketplace a lot, so let's see what MS has to say about it.

 

[lupin23rd]

I saw the tv ad, but when I tried to download the clips, it hit me with the "can't at your location" content crap that was implemented after the Spring Dashboard update. Considering that I'm legally US territory, it's time to give 'ole MS a call. This is the type of crap that can piss me off into doing something stupid, like selling my xbox. Seriously, I like using the Marketplace a lot, so let's see what MS has to say about it.

Took a walk to A&B Sound (local electronics shop in Vancouver), and they had a couple copies of the Matrix set for sale already. Didn't see any Pirates Blu-Ray, otherwise I would have picked them up. Anyone seen them early in stock?

m

 

[Bebpo]

I hope the HD version of The Shining is way better than the Fullmetal Jacket. I picked up FMJ because I love the film and while it definitely has way more detail than the dvd (which is cool), the movie looks like shit during the night scenes with insane grain/dirt.

Shining is sooooo good. It better get an A class transfer because I want that on HD.

 

[ChrisJames]

Shining is sooooo good. It better get an A class transfer because I want that on HD.

Yeah, the Shining is easily one of my most anticipated HD releases. The setting is awesome and the movie is amazing of course.

 

[Raistlin]

StoOgE ... where did you go?



You seem awful quiet after my last 2 posts

 

[DarienA]

Darkman was way ahead of its time. Poor Sam Raimi was always on the cutting edge and no one ever got the humor in his films. Quick and the Dead also suffered from audiences being too stupid to get it.

I friggin love Quick and the Dead... Gene Hackman owns that movie.

 

[The Main Event]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-webcannes20may20,1,1146667.story?track=crosspromo&coll=la-headlines-entnews&ctrack=1&cset=true

Guillermo del Toro, who was in town Sunday morning for a news conference to announce the upcoming release of a world premiere HD-DVD version of "Pan's Labyrinth," called the medium "an opportunity to experience film in exactly the same way as at the movies or even better. If you go to the cinemas I do, you get crying children, bad popcorn, terrible sound, and you can hear the explosions from the Schwarzenegger movie playing next door."

Pan's Labyrinth
THX Certified > 4 DVD + 1 HD-DVD + 1 CDA (Soundtrack) + 1 booklet (64 pages)

HD-DVD specifications unknown

DVD 1
Commentary of Guillermo del Toro
Pictures gallery
Bonus DVD-Rom

DVD 2 (170')
Making of
Interview of Guillermo del Toro
Press interview at the Festival de Cannes
3 SFX documentary
Documentary about Pan and the creatures
Documentary about set
Teasers and trailers
Galerry
Filmo.

DVD 3 & 4 (260')
"Fantasy universe of Guillermo del Toro"

DVD 4
Storyboard
Screenplay

Release > 07 04 07

O_O

I've been holding out by not buying the SD version knowing that this would come out in HD soon. Hopefully, New Line will announce the North American version soon.

 

[The Main Event]

Circuit City:

Complete Matrix Trilogy HD DVD: 19.99 (!)

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Movies/Movie.aspx?prodid=WHV115974HD&store=Movies&si=ccity-prod&channel=b2c&partner=cc&catOid=-13219&linkid=j13459594k1971&affiliateid=k1971&mid=sduidp0t520350

 

[Matrix]

I want that Pan's Labyrinth hd-dvd now!

 

[The Main Event]

Flags of our Fathers HD DVD review
Flags of our Fathers Blu-ray review

Video

As has become customary with Paramount releases, 'Flags of our Fathers' comes with different encodes depending on which next-gen format you prefer. In a side by side comparison of the film between the the AVC MPEG-4 transfer on this Blu-ray version and the VC-1 transfer on the HD DVD, it does seem that the Blu-ray/AVC encode is the tiniest bit sharper, while the HD DVD/VC-1 is the slightest bit softer. Neither is an advantage to my eyes and each encode is identical otherwise -- fans of both camps should be ecstatic to see this film looking so good.

Audio

This HD DVD edition of 'Flags of Our Fathers' narrowly trumps the audio presentation on the Blu-ray edition by upgrading from a standard mix to a Dolby Digital 5.1-Plus track (1.5 Mbps). The Plus-mix feels richer -- especially when explosions are raging from all angles. The bass tones are a bit more resonant on the HD DVD, while they're a bit more throaty on the Blu-ray. Otherwise, both tracks sound nearly the same.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Pan's Labyrinthe blows

I hate how the two halves of the movie doesn't even cross until the very end.

And way too much time given to the spanish rebel forces part of the movie.


Only marginally better than Marie Antoinette... which has a focus on the most shallow parts of her existence. I was drawn to the movie because I heard of a beheading. That movie bloody farkin fades the ending out as she flees the palace. Utter crap.

 

[Bebpo]

Why do studios insist on not giving every recent movie a DD TrueHD or PCM track? Why go the DD Plus route?

With old movies, sure maybe the original sound quality won't gain much, but c'mon for anything made in the last 15-20 years there's no reason not to do a lossless track.

I mean with something like The Fountain that has an excellent score or a FREAKING WAR MOVIE like Flags of Our Fathers...

It's just so bullshit. The exlusive studios on both sides seem to be using TrueHD/PCM, but Warner/Paramount are being ****ing annoying. I don't want to have to rebuy these films a 2nd time on HD. >_<

 

[ChrisJames]

Pan's Labyrinthe blows

I don't think you'll find many people that will agree with you..

My only complaint with the movie was that it had some unnecessary violence IMO, but that's just nitpicking when overall the movie kicks so much ass.

I can't wait to see it in HD.

 

[Dead]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-webcannes20may20,1,1146667.story?track=crosspromo&coll=la-headlines-entnews&ctrack=1&cset=true





O_O

I've been holding out by not buying the SD version knowing that this would come out in HD soon. Hopefully, New Line will announce the North American version soon.

Wow. I bought Pans DVD today, but that looks seriously amazing. Godamn...

 

[jet1911]

Circuit City:

Complete Matrix Trilogy HD DVD: 19.99 (!)

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Movies/Movie.aspx?prodid=WHV115974HD&store=Movies&si=ccity-prod&channel=b2c&partner=cc&catOid=-13219&linkid=j13459594k1971&affiliateid=k1971&mid=sduidp0t520350

Wow. I guess they don't ship to Canada?

 

[Andy787]

Why is a thread entitled "Bluray/HD-DVD: Bluray takeover watch" filled with HD DVD propagandists?

 

[The Main Event]

It seems like a lot of work has been done to the HD DVD version of Pan's Labyrinth (Europe for now).

It'll be the first HD DVD title ever to be certified THX, it will also include a DTS-HD soundtrack.

Wow. I guess they don't ship to Canada?

I checked and tried, they don't

 

[ChrisJames]

Why is a thread entitled "Bluray/HD-DVD: Bluray takeover watch" filled with HD DVD propagandists?

So anyone that posts anything that could be considered positive towards Blu-Ray is a HD DVD propagandist now? :lol Is this just because of the Pan's Labyrinth news? It'll probably come out on Blu-Ray too, once it's released in North America.

 

[Darko]

Circuit City:

Complete Matrix Trilogy HD DVD: 19.99 (!)

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Movies/Movie.aspx?prodid=WHV115974HD&store=Movies&si=ccity-prod&channel=b2c&partner=cc&catOid=-13219&linkid=j13459594k1971&affiliateid=k1971&mid=sduidp0t520350

hot

 

[Bebpo]

Circuit City:

Complete Matrix Trilogy HD DVD: 19.99 (!)

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Movies/Movie.aspx?prodid=WHV115974HD&store=Movies&si=ccity-prod&channel=b2c&partner=cc&catOid=-13219&linkid=j13459594k1971&affiliateid=k1971&mid=sduidp0t520350

There's no way they're going to honor that :\

 

[The Main Event]

There's no way they're going to honor that :\

It doesn't hurt to try.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Circuit City:

Complete Matrix Trilogy HD DVD: 19.99 (!)

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Movies/Movie.aspx?prodid=WHV115974HD&store=Movies&si=ccity-prod&channel=b2c&partner=cc&catOid=-13219&linkid=j13459594k1971&affiliateid=k1971&mid=sduidp0t520350

what the ****....is this real?

 

[Bebpo]

It doesn't hurt to try.

Can they ship it and then charge you the original price?

 

[The Main Event]

Can they ship it and then charge you the original price?

They'll probably cancel it and/or notify you about the error. Some people got charged around $22 on their CC already for the order. They're just waiting for it to get shipped (if it does get through of course).

 

[santouras]

I can't wait for this stupid war to be over so that the ugly blue and red borders around the movie cases can dissappear. They are so ugly imo and detract from any nice artwork that the movie case has

 

[ChrisJames]

I just ordered that Matrix collection from Circuit City. I'm having it shipped Express so hopefully I get it before they catch the mistake :lol I all ready ordered it from Amazon, but I'll just sell this extra copy to one of my friends or something...

 

[Midas]

Hmm,

What the hell, where's the Blu-ray version of Pan's Labyrinth? I thought the studio doing it wasn't one of the exclusive HD-DVD supporters?