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[Banjo Tango]

GODDDDDDDAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNIIIIIIT.

Serenity, Children of Men, and now Pan's Labyrinth. The only movies I want to own, and I don't have the right player. Either they get released on Blu-Ray or MS releases a 360 with HD-DVD, HDMI-out, and a new chipset for less than $300... not sure which I should expect first.

 

[Bebpo]

GODDDDDDDAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNIIIIIIT.

Serenity, Children of Men, and now Pan's Labyrinth. The only movies I want to own, and I don't have the right player. Either they get released on Blu-Ray or MS releases a 360 with HD-DVD, HDMI-out, and a new chipset for less than $300... not sure which I should expect first.

That's the European release. In the US it's owned by New Line, which is a neutral company so it'll be on Blu-ray as well.

 

[Banjo Tango]

That's the European release. In the US it's owned by New Line, which is a neutral company so it'll be on Blu-ray as well.

Good to hear!

 

[jjasper]

How that Best Buy and CC have lowered the HD-A2 this week amazon has followed and currently has the player at $267.88 for anyone interested.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A2-HD-DVD-Player

Just wondering is this player region free? If I jumped on it I would want Brotherhood of the Wolf.

 

[Alcibiades]

Yup, the HD-A2 is region free for HD DVD movies, but not for regular DVDs.

 

[Midas]

That's the European release. In the US it's owned by New Line, which is a neutral company so it'll be on Blu-ray as well.

Great! I do hope that their releases are region free, or else I'm screwed.

This is such a mess, different releases in different regions. :\

 

[StoOgE]

StoOgE ... where did you go?



You seem awful quiet after my last 2 posts

I dont post on the weekends, sorry.

I would say that its very possible, King Kong hit a peak bandwidth of 15 according to amir, and a chunk of that was dedicated to the PiP track. Granted, that film didnt have lossless audio (would have cost around another 3mbs), but if Kong which is a tier zero release can run at a peak of 15, it had to average significantly less. Plus, those numbers you were throwing around also had lossless audio in them, which is going to take up a significant chunk of those numbers.

Besides, all your "evidence" is purely anecdotal.. "Well this movie looks great at this bandwidth, so its impossible that something else could look as good at a lower bandwidth". What Im talking about isnt anecdotal at all, its based on hard numbers.

I also find it amusing that you are willing to grant AVC is 2x as efficient but VC1 couldnt possibly be more than 1.5 times as efficient? Where did you get that from? "Well, VC1 cant be that good, so I'll just say it has to be less efficient than AVC".

 

[StoOgE]

Great! I do hope that their releases are region free, or else I'm screwed.

This is such a mess, different releases in different regions. :\

HDDVD and BRD both have region coding in their "rules" but neither one is using them at the moment.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A total aside:

I thought Maria Antoinette was a weak movie, but slamming it becuase it had no beheading? She was executed years and years after the last scene in that movie.

And I will be getting Pan's Labyrinth in HD format as soon as I am able... awesome movie.

Children of Men is Univeral, btw-- that's won't be on BluRay for a while, if ever.

And ChrisJames, there's a lot more than mere positive regard for HD-DVD in the thread-- lots of propaganda as well.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

A total aside:

I thought Maria Antoinette was a weak movie, but slamming it becuase it had no beheading? She was executed years and years after the last scene in that movie.

You see. That's why the movie was crap.

I didn't even know that. What's the point of introducing people to her history via this musically poppy visually poppy movie if you don't even bother explaining her actual story?

The movie doesn't do much or any of a job of explaining why the people became disaffected.

The impression it gave me was that Louis was squandering the country's resources on war in America.

No, Marie Antoinette was an airheaded person that spent money on a bunch of shit.

I don't know if her treasury couldn't say no, or she forcefully borrowed money to fund her materialistic desires.

Movie doesn't explain jack shit!

 

[StoOgE]

Someone mentioned TrueHD versus PCM.

1) BRD can do TrueHD, but its not a requirement of all players to decode it, which is why there are all of 4 movies that use it on the format.

2) The only person who has said that PCM sounded better than TrueHD was highdefdigest, and thats because he was comparing the departed. Its been confirmed that the PCM track was authored 3 dB louder than the TrueHD track by Warner.. which explains why they heard more detail on the high end of things.

 

[teiresias]

HDDVD and BRD both have region coding in their "rules" but neither one is using them at the moment.

I'm not sure that's true, i thought some BRD studios were still using the region coding for new releases, but had not been using them on the catalog releases since there isn't really any incentive in doing it - ie. they're not keeping the DVD out of that region because the film still hasn't seen theatrical release there.

The whole rationale for region coding is becoming more and more moot as release schedules have become more instantaneous recently though.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Marie Antionette wasn't a documentary. It assumes you either know the history or are willing to do a little reading on your own.

 

[StoOgE]

I'm not sure that's true, i thought some BRD studios were still using the region coding for new releases, but had not been using them on the catalog releases since there isn't really any incentive in doing it - ie. they're not keeping the DVD out of that region because the film still hasn't seen theatrical release there.

The whole rationale for region coding is becoming more and more moot as release schedules have become more instantaneous recently though.

Hmm, I hadnt heard that BRD had region coding on them.

Regardless, I have yet to see an HDDVD with region coding turned on, but its in the specs, so it could allways show up. Importing movies = good idea. Importing player = bad idea (in case its ever implemented)

 

[Alcibiades]

HD DVD doesn't have any region-coding built into the specs, so even if companies wanted to, they wouldn't be able to do it...

Blu-ray has it, but only Fox and Disney use it, and Sony on some titles where a movie is still coming out in theatres somewhere in Europe...

Region coding is one thing holding HD DVD perhaps. At the DVD Forum meetings, Disney is always voting to study the issue for adding region-coding to the HD DVD (which they aren't releasing movies in) and there has been speculation that region-coding would probably be one of the conditions for Disney to release on the format...

funnily enough, there was a poll done on AVS recently about whether HD DVD fans would rather have region-coding added to the format if it meant Disney would come on board, and they overwhelmingly voted to keep it region-free.

 

[The Main Event]

How that Best Buy and CC have lowered the HD-A2 this week amazon has followed and currently has the player at $267.88 for anyone interested.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A2-HD-DVD-Player

Just wondering is this player region free? If I jumped on it I would want Brotherhood of the Wolf.

I still would suggest to go to Best Buy (with their 2 additionals titles) to have the best promotion right now.

From May 20th to May 26th Best Buy and Circuit City are selling the HD-A2 for $299.99 + Sales Tax, if you buy one of the Matrix Trilogy Box sets you'll receive an additional 2 free movies of your choice from Best Buy

Note: While this promtion begins Today, The Matrix Trilogy is not available until May 22nd, so this promotion for Best Buy and Circuit City is actually 5/22 to 5/26

Total: $299.99 HD-A2 + Matrix Trilogy + 2 Free movies from Best Buy + 5 free movies from Toshiba

 

[jjasper]

hmm that is a good deal I just thought it was 299 didn't know about the Matrix stuff, and since I am no longer on Prime and it doesn't qualify for super saver shipping going tax free isn't going to make too big a difference.

What sucks is that this might be the worst week for me and these deals, I wish it could be sometime next month.

 

[Midas]

HDDVD and BRD both have region coding in their "rules" but neither one is using them at the moment.

Some of the Blu-ray releases are region coded according to avsforums or whatever it's called... I wanted to get Stranger than fiction but that's Region A only.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Someone mentioned TrueHD versus PCM.


2) The only person who has said that PCM sounded better than TrueHD was highdefdigest, and thats because he was comparing the departed. Its been confirmed that the PCM track was authored 3 dB louder than the TrueHD track by Warner.. which explains why they heard more detail on the high end of things.

Actually, it's the other way around. Warner adds dialnorm to all their True HD tracks, which messes with the center channel db levels to boost it but the effect is, it also lowers the other channels, typically the LFE channel. It can be all fixed in your recevier but you shouldn't have to do that. It would be great if dialnorm was selectable or not, but it isn't. So PCM IS superior to Warner's True HD. And that's why Departed sounds better on PCM.

BTW, none of the Sony True HD tracks (Stomp the Yard, Ghost Rider) have dialnorm enabled because they actually asked the fans whether or not they wanted and the people at AVS overwhelmingly shot it down.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Marie Antionette wasn't a documentary. It assumes you either know the history or are willing to do a little reading on your own.

That's the weakest defense I've ever heard.

It was just a poor movie. Interesting subject matter, but focused on the most shallow parts, with weak to non-existant story telling of other parts.

There was no cohesive dialogue or story throughout the movie.

No central focus.

Nothing!

Just 2 hours of princess galavanting in high fashion in pretty settings. THAT'S NOT A MOVIE!

 

[DarkJediKnight]

That's the weakest defense I've ever heard.

It was just a poor movie. Interesting subject matter, but focused on the most shallow parts, with weak to non-existant story telling of other parts.

There was no cohesive dialogue or story throughout the movie.

No central focus.

Nothing!

Just 2 hours of princess galavanting in high fashion in pretty settings. THAT'S NOT A MOVIE!

The only thing "pretty" about Kristen Dunst is the costume she's in. Layers of makeup can't hide her averageness. That's right! I went there. Whatrraya gonna do aboot it? :lol

 

[Ponn]

I still would suggest to go to Best Buy (with their 2 additionals titles) to have the best promotion right now.

You're equation is misleading.

Total: $299.99 HD-A2 + 79.99 Matrix Trilogy = 2 Free movies from Best Buy + 5 free movies from Toshiba

fixed

 

[Raistlin]

GODDDDDDDAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNIIIIIIT.

Serenity, Children of Men, and now Pan's Labyrinth. The only movies I want to own, and I don't have the right player. Either they get released on Blu-Ray or MS releases a 360 with HD-DVD, HDMI-out, and a new chipset for less than $300... not sure which I should expect first.

I hope if/when Serenity and Children of Men hit BD ... they redo the soundtracks.

 

[Alcibiades]

ok, how about this:

$299 + $79 + sales tax = Toshiba HD-A2 + Complete Matrix Trilogy + 2 FREE instore movies + 5 FREE mail-in rebate movies

 

[captive]

ok, how about this:

$299 + $79 + sales tax = Toshiba HD-A2 + Complete Matrix Trilogy + 2 FREE instore movies + 5 FREE mail-in rebate movies

*sniff* *sniff* mmm I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

 

[Ponn]

ok, how about this:

$299 + $79 + sales tax = Toshiba HD-A2 + Complete Matrix Trilogy + 2 FREE instore movies + 5 FREE mail-in rebate movies

No need to try and be a crying girly man about it. The way it was posted looked like you got Matrix Trilogy for free and thought that might piss some people off if they actually went to the store thinking that.

 

[Alcibiades]

yeah, I don't know if it was misleading (the post did say you have to buy the player and matrix movies, and there was no "free" next to matrix), but it didn't make sense (original post didn't have an equation just a bunch of addition, so it's possible someone could have assumed the matrix was free), but I thought it would be good to have a clear outline of what the deal was... not sure why I'm getting attacked here...

 

[jjasper]

So I figured it out:
$270.88+$19.00(shipping)=$289.88
$299.99+$27.78 (9.25% tax)=$327.74

Still makes more sense for me to go the amazon(electronic express) route

Do you have to buy the player plus the Matrix to get the 2 free or just matrix?

 

[The Main Event]

I didn't write the deal down, I just copy-pasted it from some guy on the AVS forum.

I thought the bold text was clear enough :lol

 

[Raistlin]

I dont post on the weekends, sorry.

I would say that its very possible, King Kong hit a peak bandwidth of 15 according to amir, and a chunk of that was dedicated to the PiP track. Granted, that film didnt have lossless audio (would have cost around another 3mbs), but if Kong which is a tier zero release can run at a peak of 15, it had to average significantly less. Plus, those numbers you were throwing around also had lossless audio in them, which is going to take up a significant chunk of those numbers.

Do you have an HD DVD player and can confirm this? The Flags of our father review states that it's high range is 25 Mb/s for the VC-1. That's a pretty big difference compared to your King Kong number.

Besides, all your "evidence" is purely anecdotal.. "Well this movie looks great at this bandwidth, so its impossible that something else could look as good at a lower bandwidth". What Im talking about isnt anecdotal at all, its based on hard numbers.

It's not anecdotal ... it's empirical, ie. based on actual numbers arrived during testing. Obviously it can't be used to directly compare since we don't have any releases on MPEG2 and VC-1 that look the same to my knowledge. Regardless, there should obviously be some sort of a correlation, but the numbers seem pretty far off. What hard numbers has MS shown to validate this 3x number?

I also find it amusing that you are willing to grant AVC is 2x as efficient but VC1 couldnt possibly be more than 1.5 times as efficient? Where did you get that from? "Well, VC1 cant be that good, so I'll just say it has to be less efficient than AVC".

Interestingly, I specifically stated that we shouldn't make that assumption until there is evidence for it. The last sentence in my post was "Granted, I'd like to see further info on this before making that assumption."

It's funny that you are bringing this up, when you are telling us we should just assume VC-1 is 3x as effecient ... but you're not providing evidence of this.

 

[Raistlin]

Someone mentioned TrueHD versus PCM.

1) BRD can do TrueHD, but its not a requirement of all players to decode it, which is why there are all of 4 movies that use it on the format.

Just to note, the HD DVD requirement is for stereo decoding of True HD - multi-channel is optional iirc.

 

[The Main Event]

So I figured it out:
$270.88+$19.00(shipping)=$289.88
$299.99+$27.78 (9.25% tax)=$327.74

Still makes more sense for me to go the amazon(electronic express) route

Do you have to buy the player plus the Matrix to get the 2 free or just matrix?

I think it must all be purchased and be on the same receipt. Why don't you go in-store tomorrow to get it all detailed? On top of that you'll save on the shipping.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That's the weakest defense I've ever heard.

It was just a poor movie. Interesting subject matter, but focused on the most shallow parts, with weak to non-existant story telling of other parts.

There was no cohesive dialogue or story throughout the movie.

No central focus.

Nothing!

Just 2 hours of princess galavanting in high fashion in pretty settings. THAT'S NOT A MOVIE!

I did say it was a weak movie, but not for the reasons you state here. If my defense of the movie is the weakest you've heard, you should get out more!

The movie is weak becuase it's about a half-hour too long, almost all of that at the end. As a movie about Marie's devlopment from estraged outsider to party animal (and with the reasons why, as well) it's pretty good-- until it keeps going past the point of any interest.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Region coding is one thing holding HD DVD perhaps. At the DVD Forum meetings, Disney is always voting to study the issue for adding region-coding to the HD DVD (which they aren't releasing movies in) and there has been speculation that region-coding would probably be one of the conditions for Disney to release on the format...

funnily enough, there was a poll done on AVS recently about whether HD DVD fans would rather have region-coding added to the format if it meant Disney would come on board, and they overwhelmingly voted to keep it region-free.

And that, my friends, is why forums don't make business decisions.

 

[StoOgE]

I hope if/when Serenity and Children of Men hit BD ... they redo the soundtracks.

Have you heard either of these movies? DD+ 1.5Mbs sounds absolutely phenomenal. WB puts TrueHD and DD+ encodes on all of their movies, and to be completely honest, the difference is minimal at best.. and thats with audiophile quality speakers (axiom grandmaster), Im sure the difference is even less with HTIB junk that cant even properly play old 480kbs DD soundtracks. TrueHD is obviously preferential, but one of the best sounding sountracks on either format is Riddick, and thats DD+.

As for my evidence about VC1 encode, go look at AVS, Wikipedia, endgadget or any other website...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9931723&&#post9931723

Edit: I would personally take region encoding + Disney in a heart beat.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I could have sworn I just saw a commercial for Pan's Labyrinth for Blu-Ray.

 

[VanMardigan]

Yeah, I'd take Disney over region-free. I've never imported, so it's a no-brainer. Just let Disney get their region-encoded HD DVD's and let everyone else do what they want.

 

[StoOgE]

Yeah, I'd take Disney over region-free. I've never imported, so it's a no-brainer. Just let Disney get their region-encoded HD DVD's and let everyone else do what they want.

Ive imported 2 movies, I dont have either yet because they arent out, but Im getting Brotherhood of the Wolf and Fifth Element from France.

Obviously I would take a whole other studios support over the ability to import 40 dollar movies. My guess is the reason the poll supported imports over Disney is a case of sour grapes.. they cant admit Disney is good because they dont have them.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, I'd take Disney over region-free. I've never imported, so it's a no-brainer. Just let Disney get their region-encoded HD DVD's and let everyone else do what they want.

but to do that, there has to be support for region protection on HDDVD. There isn't anything in the spec. It'd take ages to get such a thing ratified.

 

[Bebpo]

Ive imported 2 movies, I dont have either yet because they arent out, but Im getting Brotherhood of the Wolf and Fifth Element from France.

Obviously I would take a whole other studios support over the ability to import 40 dollar movies. My guess is the reason the poll supported imports over Disney is a case of sour grapes.. they cant admit Disney is good because they dont have them.

People want region-free because it's the only way to get Blu-ray exclusives on HD-DVD.

 

[Kinan]

A bit on EU sales after PS3 launch:

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/7817/8841/PlayStation3-gives-Blu-ray-discs-boosts.phtml


Up until the PS3’s launch on 23 March, HD DVD was comfortably outselling Blu-ray discs. However, in the week after PS3 was launched in Europe, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales.

Seems like at least in Europe it did make a difference.

 

[djkimothy]

A bit on EU sales after PS3 launch:

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/7817/8841/PlayStation3-gives-Blu-ray-discs-boosts.phtml


Up until the PS3’s launch on 23 March, HD DVD was comfortably outselling Blu-ray discs. However, in the week after PS3 was launched in Europe, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales.

Seems like at least in Europe it did make a difference.

B-b-b-but Europe is HDDVD land! Minus Italy and that other country...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A bit on EU sales after PS3 launch:

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/7817/8841/PlayStation3-gives-Blu-ray-discs-boosts.phtml


Up until the PS3s launch on 23 March, HD DVD was comfortably outselling Blu-ray discs. However, in the week after PS3 was launched in Europe, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales.

Seems like at least in Europe it did make a difference.

It made a huge differene here, too. BluRay disc sales pre-PS3 were abysmal. Which is why one should always dicsount the numbers which reference standalone players as distortions and propaganda. Everyone following the US market knows how big a part the PS3 has played.

 

[VanMardigan]

I don't think anyone can deny the incredible impact Ps3 has had in this format war. The only question is, does the Ps3 crowd (in the long run) have the ability to sustain those sales.

Right now, the folks buying Ps3 are (for the most part) the a/v enthusiasts anyway, who are more likely to buy BR discs. It may be enough to win the format war, though. I know this isn't necessarily a fair or even warranted parallel, but UMD sales were fantastic early on and actually beat DVD to several milestones (including 100k movie sales). This is why I believe that the format war is far from over.

The PS3 hasn't caught enough traction yet. Otherwise, the format war would be even more lopsided. Imagine if Ps3 was selling 500k a month?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The only people buying *either* format ar AV enthusiasts. That's how new formats get started. Studios will support whichever format sells software, and people will follow the software if the price is right. HD will get to that price first, but both will get there. The only remaining question is whether HD-DVD sales can break out before BluRay close the door.

It's not over, but BluRay is pretty far ahead. The Trojan Horse strategy is working-- hence the desire by some spin artists to exclude the PS3 or minimize its impact. It may be costing Sony the console war, but it's winning them the format war.

Unlike UMD, people actually watch movies at home. There's no reason to expect sales to drop off like UMD sales did.

 

[VanMardigan]

I don't expect the sales to teeter off like UMD, I was just pointing out that you couldn't expect Ps3 to sustain BR sales long term. As for me, I certainly recognize the impact of Ps3 on this format war. Like you said, I feel like HD DVD has a limited window to break out and re-establish itself as the leading format. Unlike you, though, I don't feel that window is narrowing quickly. Ps3's slow sales, IMO, gives HD DVD a bit longer to get their price settled and continue to grow their market.

Remember, it's not like HD DVD movie sales are falling off (on the contrary, they continue to rise month over month), it's just that the Ps3 has boosted BR sales past HD DVD disc sales. So, HD DVD's challenge is to accelerate its growth to keep pace with the Ps3 effect.

We'll see. For me, it's been a fun ride. I got a HD DVD player for just $160, and if the Ps3 sales continue to lag, I'll soon have a Blu Ray player (plus a frickin Ps3) for about $400-$500. I know the 20gb model is already at that range, but I want wifi and a bigger hdd.

 

[Oni Jazar]

The PS3 will sustain BR until the standalone player prices drop enough so that they can support themselves. I believe this will be the case by late this year or next.

Of course BD movies will still get a huge boost when PS3 sales go up this fall/winter due to major games.

 

[mckmas8808]

Of course BD movies will still get a huge boost when PS3 sales go up this fall/winter due to major games.

Exactly.

 

[VanMardigan]

There is no game/games that can boost Ps3 at that price. Ps3's killer app is going to be multiple price drops, not Final Fantasy or Metal Gear.

It took until 2006 for a $400 console to sell over a million a month. The 360 then dipped right back into its 200k average. In case you're not keeping score at home, that's a console priced $200 less, on average.

How fast can Sony drop the price $200-$300?

edit: I don't want this to turn into a console war debate. I really do feel that Ps3 is a great piece of tech. This is meant to debate how slow Ps3 sales affect the HD disc market.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I didn't say the PS3 will sell a million a month. I'm saying that the PS3 will get a boost of sales this fall/winter. You cannot disagree that the PS3 will see a significant increase of sales this holiday season compared to Feb-April sales even without an inevitable pricedrop. Even sales of 500k or greater per holiday month will surpass what any HD DVD standalone can achieve.