How big of a game changer would it be if Sony is using a large amount of ReRAM as the PS5 SSD?

O

onQ123

Member
If the storage is this fast how will it change game development? it would blur the line between storage & main memory so full games could live inside of the main memory , You would have RAM that holds data even when you turn your console off or if there is a power outage , you could jump from game to game & pick up where you left off or the game could be updated on the fly . Textures can be a lot more detailed & so on because you would basically have a giant pool of memory.



ZvBrf5.jpg



1Pmwbx.jpg


ReRAM Offerings

www.crossbar-inc.com
 
What are the current "flash based" NVMe SSDs that we have now? I'm trying to understand how "this" is different from what we have today.
 
:messenger_dizzy: Again, it's not cost effective for consoles! Don't believe every slide you find, but look at what available right NOW.

Just look at how much Intel's Optane SSD's cost , which uses similar crosspoint technology.

Amazon.com: Intel Optane SSD 905P Series (960GB) (AIC PCIe x 4 3D XPoint): Gateway

Buy Intel Optane SSD 905P Series (960GB) (AIC PCIe x 4 3D XPoint): Internal Solid State Drives - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
 
JareBear said:
All this talk of NVMe and ReRAM, dude just a standard SSD in the console would be a huge leap over the mechanical drives we've been used to.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I posted comaprison in other thread. Sony going from $25 slow HDD to a faster than what could still be ~$250 SSD in 2020 [according to that wire interview] and people are still unhappy...
 
MightySquirrel said:
:messenger_dizzy: Again, it's not cost effective for consoles! Don't believe every slide you find, but look at what available right NOW.

Just look at how much Intel's Optane SSD's cost , which uses similar crosspoint technology.

Amazon.com: Intel Optane SSD 905P Series (960GB) (AIC PCIe x 4 3D XPoint): Gateway

Buy Intel Optane SSD 905P Series (960GB) (AIC PCIe x 4 3D XPoint): Internal Solid State Drives - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...



It's cheaper than DRAM & not that much more expensive than FLASH so they could have 128GB - 256GB of ReRAM in place of having a small amount of DDR4
 
onQ123 said:
It's cheaper than DRAM & not that much more expensive than FLASH so they could have 128GB - 256GB of ReRAM in place of having a small amount of DDR4
Click to expand...

So it'll be Sony that would have to hot swap out specific games that a person wanted to play in and out of the ReRAM? If it's only 128GB in size right?
 
All this talk of building a super machine of a console is totally unrealistic, even though there's better and bigger parts out there I won't be shocked if SONY isn't considering these options.
 
mckmas8808 said:
So it'll be Sony that would have to hot swap out specific games that a person wanted to play in and out of the ReRAM? If it's only 128GB in size right?
Click to expand...

The write speed of ReRAM is pretty fast so they could keep up with where you are in games & have the sections preloaded from most of your games then load the rest while you're playing .

It's RAM that you can store data in & at the same time it's big enough to store the full game in.



reram-advantages3.svg
 
onQ123 said:
The write speed of ReRAM is pretty fast so they could keep up with where you are in games & have the sections preloaded from most of your games then load the rest while you're playing .

It's RAM that you can store data in & at the same time it's big enough to store the full game in.



reram-advantages3.svg
Click to expand...

If it uses ReRAM I'd love to watch a 60 minute talk by Mark Cenry himself on how they created software to use it. This would be super mindblowing.
 
This is all going over my head. I'll say this. Thank God SSD will be the default. Some of these load times were getting crazy already. PS5 with a standard HDD would have been a complete disaster.
 
onQ123 thread?

onQ123 thread.

HEY GUYS ISN'T THIS THING COOL

IT MIGHT BE IN THE NEXT GEN CONSOLES

HERE'S A BUNCH OF LINKS AND POWERPOINT SLIDES IN LIEU OF ACTUALLY EXPLAINING MYSELF
 
Last edited:
Shifty. said:
onQ123 thread?

onQ123 thread.

HEY GUYS ISN'T THIS THING COOL

IT MIGHT BE IN THE NEXT GEN CONSOLES

HERE'S A BUNCH OF LINKS AND POWERPOINT SLIDES IN LIEU OF ACTUALLY EXPLAINING MYSELF
Click to expand...

He's actually explained himself alot of times. You're allowed to disagree with his posts though. He's been right about a few number of things in the past.
 
I prefer a normal SSD 2.5 than an expensive solution... i do not want for Sony to repeat what they did with the ps3 putting a very expensive hardware in the ps5.
 
mckmas8808 said:
He's actually explained himself alot of times. You're allowed to disagree with his posts though. He's been right about a few number of things in the past.
Click to expand...
There's a notable difference between

A. Laying out your theory in the OP, explaining what it is, why it's a good fit, and making a case as to why it might be in the next-gen consoles

and

B. Posting a half-baked "what if" accompanied by a bunch of raw powerpoint slides (in lieu of actually having to use words to explain what these things are), then only elaborating on your grand idea when people poke at the extremely obvious holes in it

As speculation goes, it's pretty low-tier. I'll give him credit for digging up the patent for PS5 motion controllers, but that's about it.
 
Last edited:
Shifty. said:
onQ123 thread?

onQ123 thread.

HEY GUYS ISN'T THIS THING COOL

IT MIGHT BE IN THE NEXT GEN CONSOLES

HERE'S A BUNCH OF LINKS AND POWERPOINT SLIDES IN LIEU OF ACTUALLY EXPLAINING MYSELF
Click to expand...


Me months ago before Cerny talked to Wired

onQ123 said:
With ReRam you wouldn't have to load a game because the game would basically be in main memory & there is other benefits & from the look of things Crossbar & others are preparing ReRam for the mass market


https://www.crossbar-inc.com/en/products/t-series/


t-series-ip-cores.svg



t-series-key-characteristics.svg







https://www.crossbar-inc.com/en/products/solutions/

solutions-nvme-ssd.svg








solutions-nvdimm.svg






consumer-electronics-key-characteristics.svg





https://www.crossbar-inc.com/en/applications/mobile-computing/


mobile-computing-key-characteristics.svg
Click to expand...
 
onQ123 said:
Me months ago before Cerny talked to Wired
Click to expand...
And this is relevant how? There you go again completely failing to explain the context of these massive image dumps you always post 🤔

Cerny never mentioned anything about ReRAM in the Wired interview, and successfully speculating that an SSD would be present in the PS5 is about as impressive as winning a coin flip.
 
Shifty. said:
And this is relevant how? There you go again completely failing to explain the context of these massive image dumps you always post 🤔

Cerny never mentioned anything about ReRAM in the Wired interview, and successfully speculating that an SSD would be present in the PS5 is about as impressive as winning a coin flip.
Click to expand...

I explained more than Cerny did in his interview , the reason the load times are basically none existence is because the game is stored in RAM.


Now do you have any actual input or do you just want to run your mouth like always?
 
Shifty. said:
There's a notable difference between

A. Laying out your theory in the OP, explaining what it is, why it's a good fit, and making a case as to why it might be in the next-gen consoles

and

B. Posting a half-baked "what if" accompanied by a bunch of raw powerpoint slides (in lieu of actually having to use words to explain what these things are), then only elaborating on your grand idea when people poke at the extremely obvious holes in it

As speculation goes, it's pretty low-tier. I'll give him credit for digging up the patent for PS5 motion controllers, but that's about it.
Click to expand...

Nah, I've been watching dude for years. Sadly (because it's making me feel awkward) it's probably been 10 years he's been putting up stuff like this. He's made more good points than the PS5 motion controllers. The speculation is very high tier, but that doesn't mean he has to be right. It's a decent theory that people can throw around and discuss. He's not asking us to pay him money to get more access to what the PS5 will or could possibly be.
 
Samsomite said:
Your explanation is a quote of yourself with another image dump?

Come on, now.
Click to expand...

So you don't understand that the load times will be faster because the games can be stored in memory? because that's the very 1st line in my quote that I made before Cerny said anything about these fast loading times.
 
Sorry but the SSD won't ever be fast, it's capped because of the Blu Ray drive.

We might be able to get it faster though if we destroy the DRM with a lazer. Then read the disc so that the SSD can reorganize the registry.
 
I was an skeptical but after Cerny words im a believer now that we'll see NVMe on consoles, O onQ123 REDEEMED.
Maybe a hybrid M2-SATA3 approach?
So small M2 drive and big SATA3 SSD
 
Last edited:
mckmas8808 said:
No it's better if you listen to and believe Freedom Gate Co. Freedom Gate Co. and not the creator of the PS4 and PS5.
Click to expand...

Cerny is nothing more than a paid shill that doesn't no the delicate systems of powerful technology like FreedomGate.

FreedomGate is the only one that can use a laser disc reader and make a SSD end up 7x faster than it's natural state. How? That question is classified because you couldn't possibly comprehend the in-depth and complicated explanations that brings all the pieces together in a smooth lather th-

Yeah he doesn't have an answer. lol ;)
 
cryogenic7 said:
This is just flat out wrong.
Click to expand...

It's just a play on a recent thread

www.neogaf.com

Why the PlayStation 5 still using Bluray will make most of its revealed specs useless and void, and why they should ditch it for alternatives.

It has been revealed in the same interview as the "PS5 Specs" that the PS5 will continue to use bluray. Not only does that show innovation in the physical space is dead, but will actually be a detriment to the specs "cerny" was touting. I was expecting at least using the niche improved and...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
Last edited:
Does there exist a single public benchmark of ReRAM? Not one I can find. So it's hard to even hypothesize.

Could it use Optane instead too, sure, why not, but at 5X the cost per transistor as NAND I think we'd all rather just have 5X the NAND.

A PCI-E 4.0 SSD as baseline for this gen is already such a massive leg up that I'm not dreaming up anything more exotic.
 
Last edited:
Does it play games? Yes. Then I don't care.

Unless you're buying a PC, please shut up and take what they give you.

You don't have a choice, you won't have a choice, either buy their product or don't, but your opinion means nothing to them.
 
I agree it will be too expensive. I think a standard SSD with a wide bandwidth is going to be what they do and that is a huge upgrade to the base system over previous gen.

Even Apple has been able to use their SSDs better than any other manufacturer just from software integration.
 
scydrex said:
I prefer a normal SSD 2.5 than an expensive solution... i do not want for Sony to repeat what they did with the ps3 putting a very expensive hardware in the ps5.
Click to expand...

M.2 SSDs are the new normal ssd. 2.5" sata ssds nowadays are mostly used for upgrading old computers without a M.2 slot on their motherboard. Especially now with M.2 NVMe ssds dropping so much in price.
 
Hinedorf said:
Does it play games? Yes. Then I don't care.

Unless you're buying a PC, please shut up and take what they give you.

You don't have a choice, you won't have a choice, either buy their product or don't, but your opinion means nothing to them.
Click to expand...

Seems a bit harsh. No harm in speculating.

But maybe there's some history here I'm not seeing.
 
MightySquirrel said:
:messenger_dizzy: Again, it's not cost effective for consoles! Don't believe every slide you find, but look at what available right NOW.

Just look at how much Intel's Optane SSD's cost , which uses similar crosspoint technology.

Amazon.com: Intel Optane SSD 905P Series (960GB) (AIC PCIe x 4 3D XPoint): Gateway

Buy Intel Optane SSD 905P Series (960GB) (AIC PCIe x 4 3D XPoint): Internal Solid State Drives - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
Is a consumer price...companies do contracts
 
wordslaughter said:
Seems a bit harsh. No harm in speculating.

But maybe there's some history here I'm not seeing.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be harsh, trying to be realistic about what a company like Sony or Microsoft faces. They're not just thinking about the best component to install, they're thinking about how many of the closest to the best possible they can purchase at any given time. They're not building 1 unit they're building millions and have to account for so much freaking overhead in hardware to think a gamer wants to nitpick their stuff......to me I would classify it as disrespectful, you want to pick your hardware, go build your own custom PC.

The harsh version is saying that consoles are for dumb people, because they are. Peace and love

(is dumb to)
 
mckmas8808 said:
The speculation is very high tier
Click to expand...
Do explain how these posts are 'high tier speculation' when they amount to a big copy-paste info dump with little in the way of actual reasoning other than 'this tech exists ergo it will be in the next gen'.

mckmas8808 said:
but that doesn't mean he has to be right. It's a decent theory that people can throw around and discuss. He's not asking us to pay him money to get more access to what the PS5 will or could possibly be.
Click to expand...
I don't really care one way or another if he's eventually right or wrong in his speculations, and I'm not asserting that he's a shill. I'm asserting that his threads are poorly-worded tech fanfiction at best, but could actually be solid bases for discussion if the OP put in a bit of effort.

mckmas8808 said:
What is it that you guys want him to explain further? Like I don't get it. Are some of you guys under the age 13?
Click to expand...
Not everyone is as easily-pleased as you, mckmas. Some of us apply critical thinking when presented with new information rather than simply taking it at face value.

onQ123 said:
I explained more than Cerny did in his interview , the reason the load times are basically none existence is because the game is stored in RAM.
Click to expand...
ReRAM is not confirmed, ergo the onus is not on Cerny to explain anything about it.

There is however an onus on your to actually consider all of these thoughts, including ones you may have posted in ancient threads, and actually collate them into a "this is why i think this is going to be a thing" post in the OP when you make these threads. Nobody in here is a mind-reader.

onQ123 said:
Now do you have any actual input or do you just want to run your mouth like always?
Click to expand...
I'll offer actual input when you make an actual thread, as I have done in the past.

I don't hate you, buddy, I just want you to do better :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
Shifty. said:
Do explain how these posts are 'high tier speculation' when they amount to a big copy-paste info dump with little in the way of actual reasoning other than 'this tech exists ergo it will be in the next gen'.


I don't really care one way or another if he's eventually right or wrong in his speculations, and I'm not asserting that he's a shill. I'm asserting that his threads are poorly-worded tech fanfiction at best, but could actually be solid bases for discussion if the OP put in a bit of effort.


Not everyone is as easily-pleased as you, mckmas. Some of us apply critical thinking when presented with new information rather than simply taking it at face value.


ReRAM is not confirmed, ergo the onus is not on Cerny to explain anything about it.

There is however an onus on your to actually consider all of these thoughts, including ones you may have posted in ancient threads, and actually collate them into a "this is why i think this is going to be a thing" post in the OP when you make these threads. Nobody in here is a mind-reader.


I'll offer actual input when you make an actual thread, as I have done in the past.

I don't hate you, buddy, I just want you to do better :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
Click to expand...


I'm doing just fine
 
Shifty. said:
Not everyone is as easily-pleased as you, mckmas. Some of us apply critical thinking when presented with new information rather than simply taking it at face value.
Click to expand...

The part I'm confused on is.....this is all speculation. It's just guessing at the end of the day. It's all for fun. What exactly do you want him to explain? He's shown you the slides, given you links to read more on the new tech, and gave a couple of short posts on why the new tech could be in the system.

At some point, it's on us to look into the new tech further and gather our own "extra" information. But he did provide the basics. Why are you expecting more than the basics?
 
mckmas8808 said:
The part I'm confused on is.....this is all speculation. It's just guessing at the end of the day. It's all for fun. What exactly do you want him to explain? He's shown you the slides, given you links to read more on the new tech, and gave a couple of short posts on why the new tech could be in the system.
Click to expand...
I suppose it's a similar frustration to when you're debating with someone and get a response that amounts to "here, watch this" accompanied by a link to a 30-minute video from some opinionated YouTube pundit.

The actual hard work of transcribing the information into a presented form (ex videos, slides, infographics) has already been done by someone else, which makes the response itself (or OP, in this case) seem quite low-effort because the effort of explaining has been delegated away.
On top of that, the material being presented is extensive enough that it feels like a waste of your time to consume the whole thing for the sake of trying to figure out what the other party is trying to tell you when they could have said it in plain english.

So I guess TL;DR huge infographic images full of tiny text should not be the focus of an OP, they should be (at best) supplementary material to a paragraph or two of actual forum post.

mckmas8808 said:
At some point, it's on us to look into the new tech further and gather our own "extra" information. But he did provide the basics. Why are you expecting more than the basics?
Click to expand...
Naturally further research on the part of the reader is something that will further the discussion, but it's the OP's job to establish a basis for that discussion in the first place and set it off in the right direction.
Low-effort openers, particularly ones focused on recent news in the console space, will attract low-effort discourse, and low-effort discourse in that context tends to be godawful console war nonsense.

I'd much rather have a thread of thoughtful discussion about tech than one that the local scrubs can use to whip themselves into a frenzy and parade around reasons why their team will make the best plastic box, despite having no confirmed specs to speak of.
 
I don't know how much of a game changer that would be, but it would be a massive price changer, I guarantee...
 
Last edited:
ReRAM costs $1 per GB while NAND costs $.1 per GB which are already a good amount now expensive than mechanical drives. Maybe as a cache since the price seems to be coming down recently. Also, you should note that at least in terms of R&D Sony is the leader in this field.

Edit: Updates outdated cost numbers.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Switch 2: Sony says PS5 performance required for ‘great experience on a big screen’
Opinion Game Dev  2 3
133
1K
DavJay replied
Xbox bet that Game Pass would be the future of gaming, and we're all paying for it - PC Gamer
2 3 4
188
488
Yoda replied
I am not a big fan of the collectable aspect of the new Doom games
8
218
Kiya's Guard replied
Sony to be conservative with its multiplatform releases in order to protect the value of the PS5 console
News  3 4 5 6 7
300
2K
coachmcguirk91 replied
Why is it viewed as negative if a developer can use Game Pass to help them reach profitability faster?
2
96
1K
Connificent replied
Top Bottom