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I just saw the last Hobbit movie AKA The Hobbit: TBOTFA Spoiler Thread *SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Vashetti
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AdventureRacing
Member
To be fair is that ever really explained in the movies? I'd imagine for those people who haven't read the books this wouldn't exactly be obvious.
Two Towers - Extended
And if anybody is looking for more info in these movies, the Extendeds are the way to go.
Isn't sort of shown when Elrond talks to his daughter regarding Aragons fate?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Did you have another tag before this one? What was it and how did you get your new one?!
Agreed, and I never expected these movies to be LOTR just because it's set in the same universe. The Hobbit is not as complex a story as the Trilogy, it was written with children in mind, so it's not going to be the emotional roller coaster that the Lord of the Rings books are.
And frankly, these might have more replay value for me in the future just based on the fact that the emotional highs and lows of the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy leaves me exhausted every time I watch it. Return of the King is pretty unrelenting in it's pace once the battle at Gondor starts.
Another complaint I've noticed online is "For a movie series called 'The Hobbit', Bilbo doesn't do much." To be frank, Tolkien didn't give him much to do in the original book, if anything Jackson made him a better character in these movies by making him more pro-active. Bilbo doesn't even decide to join the quest on his own in the book, Gandalf literally wakes him up and pushes him out the door. He really is just along for the ride in the book. The only time in the book he shows any sign of taking matters into his own hands is when he takes the Arkenstone to Thranduil and Bard.
It's explicitly said here:
http://youtu.be/kK6za19TyBk
You watched the HFR version, what you experienced wasn't the film sped up, but your eyes/brain adjusting to the increased framerate in the beginning of the movie.
King Thranduil was amazing. His raindeer and costume was amazing as well.
Lee Pace nerds need to subtract their Lee Pace bonus before giving their score. It should be good for a 2-4 point drop.
Looking forward to a fan edit of the three films (into one since that's all you need).
Melon Husk
Member
Cutting all the PJ's inventions would still make this a 2-part movie. You'd have to cut the lengthy Gollum/Smaug scenes, which are the best parts of the movie. I saw DoS EE yesterday and there's maybe an hour to be cut from the Laketown sideshow and Gandalf's shenanigans.
If you set the limit to 3 hours Bilbo would have to enter The Mountain ~ 2 hours in. Before this he has to go through Misty Mountains, Mirkwood... I'll revisit AuJ EE and check how much I could compress it without fast forwarding the good bits. Edit: I forgot to say there is the Dwarfed edition fan edit which compresses AuJ+DoS into 2 hours but I felt they cut too much.
JimtotheHum
Member
Yeah, this is how I reacted to the movies. It had all the elements of a good fantasy film, but it just didn't "work".
The battles lacked any emotional impact, I found that the conflicts built up in the first two movies were resolved in an anti-climactic way at the beginning of the movie, everything else felt superfluous.
I was willing to give Jackson the benefit of the doubt, but I can definitely say that Hobbit should have been two movies instead of three.
Another thing I didn't like - I couldn't take the Dwarves as serious warriors. In the previous movies they've always been running, and when they do fight it hasn't been anything impressive. Having Thorin emerge from the mountain with 10 Dwarf warriors didn't seem like that should turn the tide of the battle.
I didn't think they were supposed to be taken seriously as warriors. With the exception of Thorin, Fili, Kili and Dwalin, they were, in the words of Balin from An Unexpected Journey:
"...what are we? Merchants, miners, tinkerers, toy-makers. Hardly the stuff of legend."
They were always supposed to be a rag-tag group from the start by design.
Kyleripman
Member
He also rescues all the dwarves from the spiders and rescues them from the elf dungeons. Granted, this is all in service to the quest of the dwarves, but I think Bilbo in the book definitely shows growth from being just along for the ride to becoming very capable himself. I do think the movie shows all/most of this progression, too, it's just slightly diminished because of everything happening around it.
Legolas, Tauriel, Dol Guldur, Radagast, the whole black arrow business (in the book, it was actually just a regular arrow with a black head) were all added in, but the Battle of the Five Armies did take place.
I dunno, man... He's really broken throughout both film trilogies. They could have just given the Ring to him, and he'd have fought and killed his way right up to Mt. Doom all by himself before getting corrupted by the Ring at the Cracks of Doom. He'd then be seen kicking Sauron's ass and taking over Middle-earth.
Whoah now, Billy Connolly is a fine actor. Agreed about Lee Pace, though.
As for nameless/characterless dwarves, the source is a children's book where the most we've seen of personality in the majority of the dwarves is in their silly names - Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Fili, Kili, Balin, Dwalin, etc. The third film is not where we should be learning who these characters are.
I haven't seen AUJ in a bit but I think you are underestimating how much bullshit these movies have
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
The Hobbit could have been done in one three hour film. Of course it would be The Hobbit without any of the additional links to the Lord of the Rings and the elements inherent in the novel itself would act as the main linking mechanisms; Gollum and Elrond etc.
The first half would essentially be a road-trip movie with backstory told via dialogue and the latter half bringing it all together to its conclusion with the maturation and individuation of our friend Bilbo.
The original plan (in Guillermo del Toro's time) was one film dealing with The Hobbit and one film to bridge the gap between the two respective narratives.
So, having slept on it, I'm still comfortable in saying that this was a terrible film and it's a shame that this had to be the film that closed out the Jackson Middle Earth films.
It's even more of a shame how much this film highlights the decreased level of care given to bringing the world to light, given how lazy a lot of the special effects work ended up feeling. Nothing is more damning about this when the end of the film has a lingering shot of Gandalf and Bilbo walking side by side towards the camera, and it's painfully obvious that it's not Martin Freeman in the shot and it's done so in a way that there's no possible way that it could have been missed in editing. The Peter Jackson of the old movies would have never allowed that to happen
I really wanted to love these films because I have way more attachment to The Hobbit than I ever did with the LotR trilogy, and I tried every tactic I could to try and rationalize the issues with DoS in hopes that the last movie would pick the ball back up, but it just didn't.
I think a lot of people are quick to point out that the Hobbit as a book is smaller than any given individual book in the LotR trilogy, but it's also a bit denser in regards to things happening to where trying to do the whole story in one movie was always going to be pushing it without having to cut/shorten things (as the Rankin-Bass film did to achieve its running time) or having an obscenely long movie with everything in it.
That said, these movies definitely don't justify being split into three parts. It's even more insulting that, despite having all the time in the world due to the story being spread out over three films, they ultimately cut a ton of stuff from the book's ending in order to rush a conclusion that ended with the reframed scene from Fellowship.
It's even more of a shame how much this film highlights the decreased level of care given to bringing the world to light, given how lazy a lot of the special effects work ended up feeling. Nothing is more damning about this when the end of the film has a lingering shot of Gandalf and Bilbo walking side by side towards the camera, and it's painfully obvious that it's not Martin Freeman in the shot and it's done so in a way that there's no possible way that it could have been missed in editing. The Peter Jackson of the old movies would have never allowed that to happen
I really wanted to love these films because I have way more attachment to The Hobbit than I ever did with the LotR trilogy, and I tried every tactic I could to try and rationalize the issues with DoS in hopes that the last movie would pick the ball back up, but it just didn't.
Smaug and Four Armies both have a ton of bullshit to pad time out (Four Armies in particular has less than a fifth of the book left to work with!), but Unexpected Journey was actually pretty meaty in regards to focusing on things that happened in the book and not really inventing too much outside of Azog and Radagast having larger roles than simple references.
I think a lot of people are quick to point out that the Hobbit as a book is smaller than any given individual book in the LotR trilogy, but it's also a bit denser in regards to things happening to where trying to do the whole story in one movie was always going to be pushing it without having to cut/shorten things (as the Rankin-Bass film did to achieve its running time) or having an obscenely long movie with everything in it.
That said, these movies definitely don't justify being split into three parts. It's even more insulting that, despite having all the time in the world due to the story being spread out over three films, they ultimately cut a ton of stuff from the book's ending in order to rush a conclusion that ended with the reframed scene from Fellowship.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I would say part of why LOTR looks better is they actually used practical effects. Nobody gave a shit about the cgi orc bosses cos they just look like ridiculous blobs of cgi.
This guy actually existed and has weight.
Agreed 1000%
possibly!
That makes more sense, I suppose. Sad.
Yep.
He was the best thing about the movie, so yeah, without him it would have been much worse. His screen presence and performance is just phenomenal.
Exactly - they should have been fleshed out in the first film and it's a huge failure on PJ's part that they weren't.
Stormwatch
Member
I can confirm this. I just got my copy of the BotFA art book and they say that Peter Jackson didn't like the way Connolly looked in costume went back and decided to do the character as all CGI.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Peter Jackson is the new George Lucas confirmed.
The gloss looking like bad makeup was kind of a hint, but the animation not being realistic at all was a deader giveaway than Christopher Lee being replaced with a stuntman for most of his screentime.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Must work for IGN.
IdreamofHIME
Member
That awkward moment when Bilbo turns around to say goodbye to his dwarf friends and realizes the only one's who's names he can remember and had any characterization just died...
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
lmao
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
Balin, Dwalin, and Bofur didn't die though.
Of all the issues these movies had, you can't say they failed with the dwarves. They gave almost all of them some uniquely memorable aspect.
Thorin goes without saying.
Dwalin stood out as the biggest, baldest dwarf.
Balin stood out as the oldest, wisest dwarf.
Fili and Kili stood out as the sexy dwarves, with Kili in particular having an entire subplot to himself.
Bofur was the kinda goofy one with the hat.
Bombur was the fat one who never talked.
Ori was the dumb one with the slingshot.
Gloin was the one who looked like Gimli on account of he's Gimli's father.
Oin was the one with the trumpet.
Bifur, Nori, and Dori... yeah, they were just kinda there. They can't all be winners.
But the fact that they made ten of the thirteen dwarves stand out in some way is an impressive feat. Compare it to the book, where pretty much any dwarf's name could be replaced with "one of the dwarves" and the story would've been exactly the same.
In the EEs, the Dwarves are even more characterised. I can name every single one and name traits for each, they are awesome. If you watch the AUJ EE appendices, each actor also had major input on the appearance and traits of their characters, it'll give you new appreciation for the characters watching it.
Mark Hadlow who plays Dori is hysterical, seems like everyone had great fun making playful jabs at him. Graham McTavish (Dwalin) is a hoot, too.
Mark Hadlow who plays Dori is hysterical, seems like everyone had great fun making playful jabs at him. Graham McTavish (Dwalin) is a hoot, too.
IdreamofHIME
Member
I'll give you Balin (i left him out for the benefit of the joke), but the others were all ignored in that last movie. Dwalin got a few lines and a fight scene, but nothing compared to the Elves or other made up characters.
Master Yoshi
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM7byUTrSZA
I don't know if I can even watch this movie again... I feel like I need to buy the extended edition Hobbit films on blu-ray... but I don't want to.
I don't know if I can even watch this movie again... I feel like I need to buy the extended edition Hobbit films on blu-ray... but I don't want to.
GravityMan
Member
Just got back from seeing it with some colleagues. Mediocre movie. I was bored for at least half the movie. I did like the 1-on-1 fight scenes.
I haven't seen the first two Hobbit films and now I'm not sure if I even want to. I wasn't expecting this film to come anywhere close to the greatness of the LoTR trilogy, but jeez.
I haven't seen the first two Hobbit films and now I'm not sure if I even want to. I wasn't expecting this film to come anywhere close to the greatness of the LoTR trilogy, but jeez.
civilstrife
Member
It actually does neither of those things and in fact the problem is literally in your mind.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
The single biggest thing the films failed at doing is developing 11 out of the 13 dwarves into anyone memorable or worthwhile.
Dain had more memorable character given to him in less than five minutes than Nori and Dori had across three films.
Bifur, Oin, and Bombur basically only get by on having visual gimmicks.
Gloin and Fili are actually insulting because Gloin's only thing in the entire trilogy was a joke about Gimli, and that was even framed more as a Legolas thing, and Fili was just pretty much there to die in Four Armies.
That said, I do think we at least got to know Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Kili, and Bofur well enough. Maybe Ori.
This movie was so incredibly disappointing. For 2014, the CGI was just bland and really, really bad.. and I'm sorry, but some of the Sound FX felt unifnished.. All the sword clangs and hits surrounding the section where Legolas was hanging from the bat, it all sounded so canned and repetitive.
Way too many moments that pulled me out of the film completely (uh, jumping up tumbling bricks across a chasm? Physics don't work like that.)... such a sad ending to a promising set of films.
Way too many moments that pulled me out of the film completely (uh, jumping up tumbling bricks across a chasm? Physics don't work like that.)... such a sad ending to a promising set of films.
Miss.Selfdestruct
Member
Generic Power Ranger
Member
Me and my wife both left the theater pretty disappointed. The movie had about 30 minutes of story and 90 minutes of battle. The editing was a little weird too and it never seemed like they were beating the first army until they suddenly had. There was an abundance of slow motion shots too. They are fine, but at some point it becomes a little over the top.
My wife outright said it was extremely boring, and honestly I found it a little uninteresting too.. Its a damn shame. I felt they should have had a long ending to wrap everyone's story up instead of just bilbos and why weren't the two brothers even mentioned when he said goodbye to the dwarfs? Oh, and come on. Smaug was in the movie for like 5 minutes ! They should have finished his story in the last movie, and then ended with showing the Giant orc army marching towards Bilbo and co.
Its even more disappointing when you hear they cut a bunch of stuff... Le why ! Action is good, but it was too much with no build up and no payoff. It seemed pointless. I really like the other movies too. And I think with 3d, hfr should be standard since it integrates everything so much better. And it annoys me they haven't released the movies in hfr and patched some TVs and blu ray players to support it.
Anyways. Hope the extended edition makes up for this. Cut some action and add some character driven stuff.
My wife outright said it was extremely boring, and honestly I found it a little uninteresting too.. Its a damn shame. I felt they should have had a long ending to wrap everyone's story up instead of just bilbos and why weren't the two brothers even mentioned when he said goodbye to the dwarfs? Oh, and come on. Smaug was in the movie for like 5 minutes ! They should have finished his story in the last movie, and then ended with showing the Giant orc army marching towards Bilbo and co.
Its even more disappointing when you hear they cut a bunch of stuff... Le why ! Action is good, but it was too much with no build up and no payoff. It seemed pointless. I really like the other movies too. And I think with 3d, hfr should be standard since it integrates everything so much better. And it annoys me they haven't released the movies in hfr and patched some TVs and blu ray players to support it.
Anyways. Hope the extended edition makes up for this. Cut some action and add some character driven stuff.
So pretty much the same excuses he used for CGIing Azog then? Bah, color me skeptical. I think Connolly was miscast anyway. He has a voice so recognizable that it instantly killed any immersion I had when he showed up and they tried to make him funny at first, which was annoying.
On an unrelated note, I guess I liked it. Parts of it were contrived and a bit ridiculous but the fighting was pretty enjoyable. I thought the sequence at Dol Guldur was pretty anticlimactic considering the two movies of set up we spent just to have Galadriel come and repel the Necromancer (or is he Sauron at this point) fairly quickly. Also, I understand that Peter Jackson wants to connect this to LOTR, but good grief there are times when he just beats you over the head with it. Having Galadriel say Gandalf's balrog confrontation lines was unneeded as was the conversation about Strider.
civilstrife
Member
I enjoyed it, but my god, the line:
"These (insert creature here)s were bred for one purpose: WAR"
was repeated at least 3 times.
"These (insert creature here)s were bred for one purpose: WAR"
was repeated at least 3 times.
Just watched the original trilogy again. Fellowship is miles better than the other two, and light YEARS ahead of the hobbit trilogy. The pacing and score is just off the charts. No other entry hits the same emotional notes the fellowship of the ring does. The costumed goblins, orcs, and uruk kai are amazing. The fight choreography is a perfect mixture of grounded brave heart and HOLY SHIT fantasy craziness. The world building is so engrossing with its swelling music and set design. It made fantasy cool as shit to EVERYONE. I knew Peter nailed it when it shows hobbitown and the kids are running through the grass yelling "gandalf!" as the beautiful score swells and sweeps. Shit gives you the CHILLS. The sequels had their moments yes, but not of the sheer quantity that fellowship had. Peter really fucked us all. That picture of Ian McKellen sitting depressed in front of a green screen with no actors around it summed this whole shit show up perfectly.
Kabuki Waq
Member
That was awful. So 8 short dudes turned the tide of war?
Also fucking eagles save the day yey again.
The action felt rushed and lazy too.
Also fucking eagles save the day yey again.
The action felt rushed and lazy too.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I went in with low expectations and I really loved this movie, I get fidgety and start to wonder when films will end usually at cinema but the time flew by with this film I was enjoying it that much.
Intro to the dwarves up until Bilbo leaves the shire > BotFA > Rest of Unexpected Journey > DoS
Smaug intro, incredible. This was the first time I've seen it in 3D and when he took up the full screen I was in awe.
The battle at Dol Guldur was freaking amazing, I wish that sequence was longer.
Thorin's descent into madness was really well done, I liked the processing they did on his voice to make him sound like Smaug.
The dwarves really stepped it up a notch this film, Balin and Dwalin were standout for me.
A couple of things annoyed me though:
Dain, a fully CG dwarf next to an actual actor in a suit looked terribly out of place.
I don't get the motivation for Thorins sudden change of heart.
The deaths didn't have any impact for me, I'm an emotional guy and will cry at most sad scenes in films, Fili is one of my favorite dwarves and yet his death did nothing for me, as did Thorin.
The only scene that had me welling up is because they played a Feast of Starlight which is a beautifully sad theme.
Why mention Aragorn? Surely at this point he isn't old enough to be wandering the woods on his own as Strider?
It's not just 8 short dudes.... imagine you are fighting to save your home and your king has gone mad and is just pacing the treasure room, imagine your morale at this point, then just when you think everything is lost and you are cornered by advancing enemies, BOOM, down come the walls and your king comes charging out to the frontlines. How much of a boost would that give you and how much harder would you fight.
Intro to the dwarves up until Bilbo leaves the shire > BotFA > Rest of Unexpected Journey > DoS
Smaug intro, incredible. This was the first time I've seen it in 3D and when he took up the full screen I was in awe.
The battle at Dol Guldur was freaking amazing, I wish that sequence was longer.
Thorin's descent into madness was really well done, I liked the processing they did on his voice to make him sound like Smaug.
The dwarves really stepped it up a notch this film, Balin and Dwalin were standout for me.
A couple of things annoyed me though:
Dain, a fully CG dwarf next to an actual actor in a suit looked terribly out of place.
I don't get the motivation for Thorins sudden change of heart.
The deaths didn't have any impact for me, I'm an emotional guy and will cry at most sad scenes in films, Fili is one of my favorite dwarves and yet his death did nothing for me, as did Thorin.
The only scene that had me welling up is because they played a Feast of Starlight which is a beautifully sad theme.
Why mention Aragorn? Surely at this point he isn't old enough to be wandering the woods on his own as Strider?
It's not just 8 short dudes.... imagine you are fighting to save your home and your king has gone mad and is just pacing the treasure room, imagine your morale at this point, then just when you think everything is lost and you are cornered by advancing enemies, BOOM, down come the walls and your king comes charging out to the frontlines. How much of a boost would that give you and how much harder would you fight.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
Bullshit. These movies did a better job with 13 dwarves than most would have. Other depictions of The Hobbit that I've seen, like that shitty 1977 cartoon or the 2003 game, did little to differentiate between the dwarves, much less give them character.
In this version, about half of them have some sort of character development, and most of the rest at least have something that makes them stand out, even if it is only a visual gag. No, not every dwarf is a deep and meaningful character, but you know what? That was never going to happen no matter who made this movie. Considering the source material, they went above and beyond with the dwarves.
Lol ok.
I stand by what I said. HFR again, just like the last two films, makes the sets look like sets. It's extremely noticeable. It also highlighted the poor, cheap looking CG employed across this trilogy and the ridiculous amount of green screen used. I'm all for trying new things, but HFR has been shit three out of three in these films.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Thorin, Dwalin, Balin, Kili and Fili are obvious.
Oin had the healer thing, soothsaying and being deaf.
Gloin was the money in the operation, in addition to the Gimli joke.
Bifur had the axe, speaking Khuzdul and making models.
Bofur was the friendly party guy, was dancing on tables.
Bombur ate a lot, fell into a river and did a barrel roll.
Ori was young and naive and had the slingshot thing.
Dori was fussy and had awesome braided hair.
Nori obviously had the starfish hair (which, notably, was in various states of disarray) and was their own burglar (stealing Rivendell stuff, breaking into the armoury, and safecracking Erebor).
The book, meanwhile, spent more time distinguishing the instruments they played in Bag End and the colour of their hoods, and then basically ignored most of them.
Oin had the healer thing, soothsaying and being deaf.
Gloin was the money in the operation, in addition to the Gimli joke.
Bifur had the axe, speaking Khuzdul and making models.
Bofur was the friendly party guy, was dancing on tables.
Bombur ate a lot, fell into a river and did a barrel roll.
Ori was young and naive and had the slingshot thing.
Dori was fussy and had awesome braided hair.
Nori obviously had the starfish hair (which, notably, was in various states of disarray) and was their own burglar (stealing Rivendell stuff, breaking into the armoury, and safecracking Erebor).
The book, meanwhile, spent more time distinguishing the instruments they played in Bag End and the colour of their hoods, and then basically ignored most of them.
This question has been asked and answered multiple times in this thread. Aragorn is one of the Dúnedain, descendants of Númenor, blessed with long lives. His family line can be traced back to the first king of Númenor - Elros Tar-Minyatur, Elrond's brother, who chose mortality over immortality. He died at the age of five hundred years. The Dúnedain, Aragorn among them, live long lives though that ability is lessening in them as the generations pass. This also explains Aragorn's claim to the throne.
This scene from the extended edition of Two Towers outright tells us his age, and that he fought with Theoden's father.
Yeah, when you have people claiming it's the audience who is at fault for having trouble with whatever technology was used to film, then you know we've crossed the line into stupidity.
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