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[demosthenes]

Can someone explain the sauron scene? When saurmon says he'll take care of sauron is he already corrupted, or does he get corrupted when he goes after him alone? And then he lis to everyone and tells them he banished him for good?

 

[Vashetti]

Can someone explain the sauron scene? When saurmon says he'll take care of sauron is he already corrupted, or does he get corrupted when he goes after him alone? And then he lis to everyone and tells them he banished him for good?

I think we're meant to see that scene as Saruman being tempted by the power on display by the Ringwraiths and Sauron.

So he tells Elrond and Galadriel to head off and he will deal with Sauron. Essentially, he's about to turn.

 

[Herne]

I think we're meant to see that scene as Saruman being tempted by the power on display by the Ringwraiths and Sauron.

So he tells Elrond and Galadriel to head off and he will deal with Sauron. Essentially, he's about to turn.

Considering how he cowered before Sauron while Elrond attempted to defend Galadriel, you'd think they'd be a little more suspicious of his sudden bravura.

 

[Steiner_Zi]

Just got back from seeing it with some colleagues. Mediocre movie. I was bored for at least half the movie. I did like the 1-on-1 fight scenes.

I haven't seen the first two Hobbit films and now I'm not sure if I even want to. I wasn't expecting this film to come anywhere close to the greatness of the LoTR trilogy, but jeez.

LOL, you went to see the THIRD part of a trilogy without having seen the first two and then complain about it? Jesus...

 

[Nairume]

LOL, you went to see the THIRD part of a trilogy without having seen the first two and then complain about it? Jesus...

Look on the bright side. If he watches DoS and then AUJ, it'll be as if the trilogy got better with each film.

 

[Vashetti]

Look on the bright side. If he watches DoS and then AUJ, it'll be as if the trilogy got better with each film.

And if he watches DoS EE, he'll find it's better than all three so far!

We'll see if TBoFA overtakes DoS EE for me when the EE is out.

 

[brandonh83]

I am completely aware of differentiating opinions and I support them but I really wish a higher power in the universe could explain to me how it works.

I loved all three Hobbit films, I think all three have bloat and none of them come close to a masterpiece. They all feel full of life and act as a great sequel to the lord of the rings trilogy I think.

I feel like there is a ton to appreciate here and I'm really glad these movies were done and im also glad some* of the extra stuff was included.

I'm not saying I'm right and others are wrong because that's not true at all. I just can't even see the "these films were horrible" or "Peter Jackson is the new George Lucas" comments. I think many would loved for that to be the case but these films are far better than any of the Star Wars prequels for many many reasons.

This is 100% spot on with how I feel. I had some problems but mostly with placement decisions (Smaug's death should have been the end of the last one) and such but I thought they were awesome and super enjoyable. Thorin's death and Bilbo's reaction hit me hard.

 

[fanboi]

Did you have another tag before this one? What was it and how did you get your new one?!

Yes, it was Part of the war on saturnalia... this I got from trolling a mod in our Europa Universalis 4 game

 

[Radec]

OK, I was late for 30mins last night and just found out that I missed the battle with Smaug

 

[Death Metalist]

OK, I was late for 30mins last night and just found out that I missed the battle with Smaug

You're bound to miss alot if you're late 30 minutes. If I was in your place I wouldn't have bothered entering lol. For me, even missing the first 5 minutes out of a movie i'm excited about would make me feel shitty so I do everything in my power not have that happen.

 

[Radec]

You're bound to miss alot if you're late 30 minutes. If I was in your place I wouldn't have bothered entering lol. For me, even missing the first 5 minutes out of a movie i'm excited about would make me feel shitty so I do everything in my power not have that happen.

Was on an emergency meeting at work. I already bought the tickets in the morning so I just went with it.

The first scene I saw was the one with Gandalf being in the cage getting rescued by Galadriel and co.

How far was that ?

 

[Vashetti]

Was on an emergency meeting at work. I already bought the tickets in the morning so I just went with it.

The first scene I saw was the one with Gandalf being in the cage getting rescued by Galadriel and co.

How far was that ?

Read the synopsis in the first post of this thread.

 

[Death Metalist]

Was on an emergency meeting at work. I already bought the tickets in the morning so I just went with it.

The first scene I saw was the one with Gandalf being in the cage getting rescued by Galadriel and co.

How far was that ?

Spoiler

Bilbo and the Dwarves watch from the Lonely Mountain as the dragon Smaug incinerates Laketown. Bard cunningly breaks out of imprisonment and kills Smaug with the last black arrow, and the dragon's falling corpse crushes the fleeing Master of Laketown. The survivors of Laketown choose Bard to be their new leader. Kili confesses his love for Tauriel and he and the other Dwarves reunite with their company at the Lonely Mountain; it is revealed that Thorin has been inflicted with Smaug's "dragon sickness" as he searches for the Arkenstone. It is revealed that Bilbo actually stole the Arkenstone whilst fleeing from Smaug, and agrees with Balin that it should remain kept away from the maddened Thorin. Thorin proceeds to have the dwarves to build a blockade at the entrance of Erebor.

 

[Megalosaro]

Bullshit. These movies did a better job with 13 dwarves than most would have. Other depictions of The Hobbit that I've seen, like that shitty 1977 cartoon or the 2003 game, did little to differentiate between the dwarves, much less give them character.

I liked these movies but I think the 1977 version was superior. At least it was tonally consistent and didnt feature characters teleporting hundreds of miles to service its halfbaked lotr tie in subplot

 

[golem]

Saw it last night.. definitely did not improve upon the shortcomings of the other hobbit films. Visuals were great but the rest was just.. lackluster

 

[Link Man]

Actually really enjoyed this. One little detail I liked was that when the dwarves were suited up in armor, Gloin was wearing the helmet that Gimli would later wear in Lord of the Rings.

 

[Freshmaker]

Another complaint I've noticed online is "For a movie series called 'The Hobbit', Bilbo doesn't do much." To be frank, Tolkien didn't give him much to do in the original book, if anything Jackson made him a better character in these movies by making him more pro-active.

Ugh. Bilbo did most of the heavy lifting throughout the book. He basically was the adult in the group along to keep the dwarves in check.

The movies pretty much tossed everything Bilbo did in the books to Torin and the elves. I can't see any way to justify the claim that the movies somehow put Bilbo front and center.

 

[Man God]

The movies also do an excellent job of keeping a great many of the dwarves standoffish with Bilbo going into the second and third movies.

 

[DrForester]

I enjoyed it quite a bit. While it was a 2 hour action scene, it did it pretty well. I especially liked the numerous close up fights, as the choreography was very good, fitting for the last film Bob Anderson worked on.

The only part that looked just wrong was Galadrial's scene with Sauron. I did like the way they did the fight with the Ringwraiths, but her little stand down with him just looked bad.

 

[Vashetti]

I know I keep repeating it, but those you have asking for more Bilbo and Dwarf scenes, watch the EEs!

I don't know how those scenes ended up on the cutting room floor, but they did. Watching them will help alleviate some of your issues with the movies.

 

[Man God]

I know I keep repeating it, but those you have asking for more Bilbo and Dwarf scenes, watch the EEs!

I don't know how those scenes ended up on the cutting room floor, but they did. Watching them will help alleviate some of your issues with the movies.

It's because the movie needed more elves and other filler scenes.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Just watched the original trilogy again. Fellowship is miles better than the other two, and light YEARS ahead of the hobbit trilogy. The pacing and score is just off the charts. No other entry hits the same emotional notes the fellowship of the ring does. The costumed goblins, orcs, and uruk kai are amazing. The fight choreography is a perfect mixture of grounded brave heart and HOLY SHIT fantasy craziness. The world building is so engrossing with its swelling music and set design. It made fantasy cool as shit to EVERYONE. I knew Peter nailed it when it shows hobbitown and the kids are running through the grass yelling "gandalf!" as the beautiful score swells and sweeps. Shit gives you the CHILLS. The sequels had their moments yes, but not of the sheer quantity that fellowship had. Peter really fucked us all. That picture of Ian McKellen sitting depressed in front of a green screen with no actors around it summed this whole shit show up perfectly.

Really weird that the movies have gotten progressively worse to a tee (I rank ROTK over TTT only because of that sweet, tear-inducing emotional payoff).

 

[nick nacc]

Really weird that the movies have gotten progressively worse to a tee (I rank ROTK over TTT only because of that sweet, tear-inducing emotional payoff).

Exactly. All the sequels failed at good death scenes. That elf dude at helms deep. Who cares. I can't even remember any other memorable death scenes and I just watched them! The only tear inducing seen that got me in the sequels I can remember is Sam and Frodo after they destroyed the ring. And wishing they could be home. Sean Austin nailed his delivery talking about rose and how he wished he married her. Adorable.


And really Peter fucked up on developing those dwarves. Take out the some of that bullshit filler like necromancer or radiant and add some CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. fellowship of the ring had over 8 people that were well developed. It could have easily been done with 3 hours a farm movie.

 

[Megalosaro]

Exactly. All the sequels failed at good death scenes. That elf dude at helms deep. Who cares. I can't even remember any other memorable death scenes and I just watched them! The only tear inducing seen that got me in the sequels I can remember is Sam and Frodo after they destroyed the ring. And wishing they could be home. Sean Austin nailed his delivery talking about rose and how he wished he married her. Adorable.


And really Peter fucked up on developing those dwarves. Take out the some of that bullshit filler like necromancer or radiant and add some CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. fellowship of the ring had over 8 people that were well developed. It could have easily been done with 3 hours a farm movie.

To be fair, It is far easier to develop the Fellowship because they were developed in the book.

I think the dwarves were developed well enough in these movies. You really only needed to feel for a few of them. Thorin, Balin. Fili and Kili didn't even seem like dwaves

 

[Nairume]

To be fair, It is far easier to develop the Fellowship because they were developed in the book.

I don't think that's really fair. Tauriel, a completely new character, got a considerably amount of attention across two films to (extremely poorly) build her up. Hell, Not-Wormtongue got a crazy amount of time for audiences to get to know him.

Tolkien's own lack of effort to build up the company in the book itself isn't a good excuse for Jackson not doing it, especially when stretching the book out into three lengthy films.

 

[Yamauchi]

Wow, I really enjoyed that film.

 

[whatsinaname]

Just watched it. There were so many bad scenes/moments in the movie. So much useless stuff. But damn, Thorin was brilliant.

Legolas was playing God of War.

 

[rogue74]

Just got back from seeing it. I enjoyed it. Now, I made peace with the fact that these movies would never reach the heights of the LOTR trilogy long ago. Maybe that has plenty to do with it.

I saw it in HFR and I think it does help with the action sequences. I still can't quite get over the soap opera look of the other scenes. Since this movie is mostly action, it works out in the end.

I really disliked the Alfrid character. Just terrible "comedy" relief. I also felt that many of the Laketown folk were very poor actors. Soap opera quality bad. Also, WTF is going on with the Sauron design? A decade later and the best PJ and company can come up with is an seizure inducing lightshow?

Other than that, I enjoyed this quite a bit. Smaug was spectacular as was most of the titular battle - although I think it was wrapped up in a confusing manner. Lee Pace and his epic mount are great. The Legolas hero moments were silly, but I got used to it after DOS. I just had fun. My kids enjoyed it too.

Saying this is worse than the Star Wars prequels is obscene. Go rewatch those. As bad as Alfrid is, he is no Jar jar. No one is as wooden as Natalie Portman or Jake Lloyd. As far as the Kili/Tauriel romance, it may have been unnecessary but it was still less groan inducing than the Amidala/Anakin one. Or have we forgotten the sand dialogue?

 

[Nairume]

Or have we forgotten the sand dialogue?

Tauriel's mourning does a good job making that happen.

Legolas was playing God of War.

I kept thinking he stumbled in from a new Witcher movie.

Also Billy Connolly drunkenly wandered off the set of a Gotrek and Felix movie.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Bullshit. These movies did a better job with 13 dwarves than most would have. Other depictions of The Hobbit that I've seen, like that shitty 1977 cartoon or the 2003 game, did little to differentiate between the dwarves, much less give them character.

In this version, about half of them have some sort of character development, and most of the rest at least have something that makes them stand out, even if it is only a visual gag. No, not every dwarf is a deep and meaningful character, but you know what? That was never going to happen no matter who made this movie. Considering the source material, they went above and beyond with the dwarves.

The problem is, you're comparing the characterizations of the Dwarves in the movie to those of the book, cartoon, and game - their characterizations in those other mediums aren't very complex so the film version, where things are slightly more developed, must be good. But the characters in the film version are still thin as a sheet of paper and not memorable in the least.

"The fat one", "The bald one", "The one with the weird mustache", etc. are vague descriptors of their appearances and nothing more. They're not personality traits, they tell us nothing about who they are as people. None of that makes them likable or interesting and none of that makes up for giving them actual screen time and dialog.

The core of the story is the journey of Bilbo and the Dwarves, and their interactions with each other, but in the film adaptations this is shelved (primarily in the second and third parts) in favor of MORE - more Gandalf, more Sauron, more Galadriel, more Bard, more Laketown, and more Elves, not to mention the creation of several superfluous characters such as Tauriel, Azog, and Alfrid. They added in tons and tons and tons and tons of dumb shit and the core story and the core cast of characters unquestionably suffered because of it.

There could have been a version of this movie(s) where the director was actually interested in telling a coherent story with a recognizable, likable, and compelling cast of characters. This wasn't it.

Tolkien's own lack of effort to build up the company in the book itself isn't a good excuse for Jackson not doing it, especially when stretching the book out into three lengthy films.

Bingo.

 

[Nothing1016]

Pretty decent movie. The sad part is that this might be the end of middle earth movies.

 

[ito007]

Pretty decent movie. The sad part is that this might be the end of middle earth movies.

Couldn't help but think that with every scene. "Oh man this might be the last scene ever with this guy," or "damn I'm going to miss this character"

Maybe it's for the best.

Overall I liked the movie, but only because it wrapped up the trilogy. The second movie is definitely my favorite of the three, and smaug was really standout to me as a character

 

[aerts1js]

just saw this movie... wow; just terrible. So boring and way too many cartoonish battle scenes. I enjoyed the first Hobbit enough and the second was not bad but this one had so little character development. It felt like it wasn't a movie about the hobbit (seemed like he was hardly in it!) but just some videogame-ish battles that never ended.

Edit: Also the music was pretty bad.... nothing epic and the only decent tunes were call backs to past movies. (Excluding the credit song)

 

[fireside]

i didn't feel anything while watching this movie. i didn't care about any of the characters. i didn't really care about anything. i thought it was all pretty stupid. considering how the movie just jumped right into everything, was i expected to maintain caring about characters i didn't care about in the previous two movies for another year?

why was so much time wasted on that stupid alfrid character? who was in the editing room going "yeah these scenes totally work!"?

martin freeman cocking his head to the side in every scene he is in. like is that all you got? is that your entire characterization of bilbo baggins? head tilting? oh wait you also have that thing were you start to say a sentence then pause and start over

kili and tauriel. poor evangeline lily

lee pace and his elk mount. you're cool.

 

[Freshmaker]

I don't think that's really fair. Tauriel, a completely new character, got a considerably amount of attention across two films to (extremely poorly) build her up. Hell, Not-Wormtongue got a crazy amount of time for audiences to get to know him.

Tolkien's own lack of effort to build up the company in the book itself isn't a good excuse for Jackson not doing it, especially when stretching the book out into three lengthy films.

The story wasn't really about the company. It was about Bilbo. I've always thought that Jackson found the hobbits intensely uninteresting. Which is why he chose to throw Aragorn and Thorin at people as much as possible.

 

[Nairume]

The story wasn't really about the company. It was about Bilbo. I've always thought that Jackson found the hobbits intensely uninteresting. Which is why he chose to throw Aragorn and Thorin at people as much as possible.

Even if it's Bilbo's story, the dwarves are a major part of that story and Jackson devotes very little time to actually developing most of them despite having more than enough time to do so do to getting three whole movies to tell his version of the story.

It's a valid complaint in the face of the awkward scene in the end of Four Armies because Bilbo saying goodbye to the dwarves falls flat.

 

[Qvoth]

just came back, it was great!
imo it was an epic ending to the series, which is what they had in mind
i heard they changed a lot of things from the book? what are they? it's been yeaaaaaaaaaaaaars since i read hobbit and lotr

 

[civilstrife]

I really wished the misty mountains song from the first film returned in some capacity

 

[Lime]

Pretty decent movie. The sad part is that this might be the end of middle earth movies.

Don't worry, capitalism will ensure remakes, reimaginings, spinoffs, TV shows, etc.

As long as it generates money, it'll exist.

 

[Spineker]

Say what you want about this film, but that White Council vs. Nazgul/Sauron battle was fucking awesome.

 

[kharma45]

Say what you want about this film, but that White Council vs. Nazgul/Sauron battle was fucking awesome.

One thing I had issue with there was Galadriel. In FOTR she took on her 'evil' guise to show what she'd be like if the Ring corrupted her (never liked that portrayal, just didn't sit right with me) however we see her do the same here when she's using all her power. Again, firstly it doesn't really feel right and surely she shouldn't have been in 'evil' mode from just using her powers?

I'm sure someone better read than me could help elaborate and maybe make it make sense.

 

[zoukka]

Say what you want about this film, but that White Council vs. Nazgul/Sauron battle was fucking awesome.

Yep and the sad thing is that it was the best thing about the movie and doesn't even belong in the Hobbit lol.

 

[kharma45]

From Reddit

BotFA funeral scene. Wonder if it'll make it to the EE.

 

[longdi]

In the books, what happens to the Wood Elves, Dwarfs and Bard leading up to FOTR?

Wont mind a fantasy bridge film that shows Legoland meeting up with Aragon, Saruman turning heel, and Lee Pace and Bard doing something something.

PJ may have messed up the Hobbit trilogy but i liked the consistency between the two trilogies. A different director may make a better movie, but it wont feel like 'LOTR'

It was still quite a mediocre film. Better the DOS but still so plain jane.

 

[DrForester]

In the books, what happens to the Wood Elves, Dwarfs and Bard leading up to FOTR?

Wont mind a fantasy bridge film that shows Legoland meeting up with Aragon, Saruman turning heel, and Lee Pace and Bard doing something something.

PJ may have messed up the Hobbit trilogy but i liked the consistency between the two trilogies. A different director may make a better movie, but it wont feel like 'LOTR'

It was still quite a mediocre film. Better the DOS but still so plain jane.

I want to say there was at least one battle at Dale during the events in Lord of the Rings. Before then, I think it was peaceful, with the dwarves and men rebuIlding. I know one of the Wraiths went back to Dol Guldur. Balin and few of the Dwarves went to resettle Moria. That why Gimli and Gloin went to Rivendell. To see if Elrond knew what happened to them.

 

[Grisby]

Watched it, didn't feel much after it ended. Just kind of a relief I suppose.

I didn't think the battle scene was shot in a great way, although the one on one fights were a lot better. The smaug stuff was over too quickly. Thorin's madness was a bit cheesy and took too long, ultimately being pointless anyways.

The CG dwarf was terrible, jesus, I was cheering a bit inside when a real person would come on screen.

"WHY DOES IT HURT SO MUCH!?"
"Because it's allll CG."

 

[Herne]

One thing I had issue with there was Galadriel. In FOTR she took on her 'evil' guise to show what she'd be like if the Ring corrupted her (never liked that portrayal, just didn't sit right with me) however we see her do the same here when she's using all her power. Again, firstly it doesn't really feel right and surely she shouldn't have been in 'evil' mode from just using her powers?

I'm sure someone better read than me could help elaborate and maybe make it make sense.

From my understanding, and I may be wrong here, Galadriel used the power of her ring (Nenya, the ring of Adamant) to show Frodo what she would become, while she was also being tempted by the power of the One. As she said, she passed the test, and she is allowed to travel back to Valinor. What powers Nenya have are vaguely described, but it appears to provide a protection of sorts over Lorien. It is said that Lorien is attacked three times during the War of the Ring, but the enemy find it impossible to overcome due to some strange power that protects it - that is Nenya. It is said that Lorien can never be taken unless by Sauron himself.

Jackson is likely taking liberties with Galadriel and Nenya's powers by having her face down Sauron like that, but it was an effective scene and entirely believable, as he was still merely a ghost of a creature, without physical form until the one ring was returned to him. Elrond carries Vilya, the ring of Firmament, which is even stronger than Nenya, and it offers the power to heal (as well as some apparent control over the elements, as seen in Fellowship when the river rose up in answer to Arwen's call), so he taking care of Galadriel fits in well with his abilities, but this explains why he wants to pursue Sauron to finish him while he is so obviously vulnerable.

I'm just surprised that Jackson chose to show Saruman cowering so obviously before Sauron before suddenly taking charge of the situation and telling them that he'll take on Sauron on his own.

 

[Johnlenham]

Ugh. Bilbo did most of the heavy lifting throughout the book. He basically was the adult in the group along to keep the dwarves in check.

The movies pretty much tossed everything Bilbo did in the books to Torin and the elves. I can't see any way to justify the claim that the movies somehow put Bilbo front and center.

Yeah Bilbo basically kept the whole sorry ship together, Pretty much the point of Gandalf sending him is to keep the dwarfs from being killed before they get even a quarter of the way there lol.

A friend of mine said something about how pissed he was that Jackson used to be THE best practical effects guy and now hes totally 180'd and just rams his films full of bad CGI. I guess the cross to the darkside is around RoTK era

 

[Devil]

The third one is by far the worst in my opinion. I haven't read the book but I roughly knew the plot nevertheless. I don't bother with changing things up from the book too.
I really liked the first one as it felt more adventurous and was a really good setup for things to come. The action was smart and great to look at but all in a smaller scale.
The second was already quite worse to me with stupid characters I didn't care about and who were horribly written. Still an okay movie especially thanks to the scenes with Smaug.
The third one though... seems like all the fears that came from the announcement to stretch the story to three movies came true with this one. I just didn't care for any of the characters except Bilbo and Gandalf who had very little to do. Fuck boring Thorin, Fuck the soap-opera Thauriel and Kili lovestory ("I <3 you" - "I can't!" :´( *dramatic headturn away from him* - what the fuck?), fuck Legolas and his ridiculous fights and especially fuck Alfrid who was nothing but annoying and fuck all the scenes including him which seemed so out of place. Oh, and of course fuck this stupid war which filled the majority of this movie and was by far the worst looking and least engaging war in the whole movie saga. I just rewatched the extended LOTR trilogy and every single fight in those entertains me more than any second from the war in Hobbit 3, even though the CGI looks dated in the old movies, it's often still less obvious and obstrusive than in this one.

Opening Hobbit 3 with the scenes which should have been the perfect ending for Hobbit 2 was also such a stupid decision. The cliffhanger of Hobbit 2 was a huge letdown by itself. But opening Hobbit 3 with the scenes that should have come directly after that without any introduction was weird and didn't get me into the movie at all. After 10-15 minutes the big bad that was built up in the previous movies is just gone. What? That was to be expected if one knows the book but it's such a huuuuge buzzkill if you don't watch both movies directly in a row. The LotR movies finished what they built up to end on a high note, while cleaning up the aftermath of the previous movies and analysing what the situation and new problem will now be was the perfect situation to open the next movies. When the latter happened in Hobbit 3 just after a big climax 15 minutes into it, the movie just didn't got me feel involved in anything.

LotR trilogy >>> Hobbit 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hobbit 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hobbit 3 (5.0/10)

 

[Nairume]

I'm just surprised that Jackson chose to show Saruman cowering so obviously before Sauron before suddenly taking charge of the situation and telling them that he'll take on Sauron on his own.

I'm surprised that Jackson thought it'd be a good idea to show 92 year old Christopher Lee being a ninja action hero.

Even more surprised at how lazy he was with hiding the stunt double.