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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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kharma45

Member
Nope.

The top end cpu for the budget board is miles ahead of the top end AMD cpu. If you get a z77 board and cheap Intel cpu you would later just be able to buy a discounted or used K series Intel and get a bigger leap in performance with only changing a single component than you could with the amd.

I thought this to myself when I looked at the Pentium's but how many people really actually do this?
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Here's mine:
i5 3570k
Asus p8z77-v pro
Gigabyte GTX 670
H100
Samsung 830
What case is that? I am looking to do push/push for the H100i and it looks like it will clear just fine. I am using SP120's instead of the stock fans as well. Set me back 50 just for the fans so I am hoping for the best temps I can get outside of getting Noctua fans.

Does anyone feel like it's a bad time to build a PC right now?

A lot of people seem to be building a PC for the first time, but I feel like a big reason is that this console cycle lasted so long and you can get a PC that can outperform the current consoles for under $1,000.

We won't know for sure how well the new consoles perform until they're out, but it's likely PC gaming is going to suddenly stop being such a value proposition, right? I could spend $1,200 on a PC right now and I'd be willing to bet that it would play something like Battlefield 4 pretty similarly to PS4/ 720. And then while games on those would look better and better as devs learn the ins and outs of the new hardware games on the PC would look worse and worse (or maybe just stay the same) as the hardware becomes increasingly unable to keep up new titles' demands.

I've been wanting to build a gaming PC for a loooong time and think I'm going to go for it next week. Most I can afford is an i5/ 660 ti setup and I'm debating between that and a more value-oriented i3/ 560 ti. I've been really excited but as I shop around for what case, mouse, and keyboard I want to get, I'm getting more and more worried that this fall the next-gen consoles are going to look as good or better than my PC for half the price.

I think I'm still going to go for it, Steam sales, the ability to upgrade, and better access to games I'm interested in (RTS, strategy, quirky indie stuff) will make it worth it in the long run. I guess I'm just wondering how well people who understand the tech think an i5/ 660 ti system will compare to the next-gen consoles, and if people think that high-end GPUs might get way cheaper when they come out when suddenly people have a ~$500 console to weight the purchase of a $500 GPU against.
I get where you're coming from. I don't think PC gaming will suffer. It will continue to truck along. There will be some who probably will be content with their new builds and get a powerful console as well but there will also be plenty of new and veteran builders who got the taste for upgrading. They will be like me and probably look to upgrade to a newer socket or GPU. Or even upgrade from a SB-E to an Ivy Bridge-E. I guess what I'm saying is that PC gaming is in a good spot this day and age. We will still have plenty of exclusives and likely the best versions of multiplatform games for some time. It may be a transition initially as I do see the new consoles getting some focus to get things up and running. I don't think that will stop BF4 from being best on PC still. I am most excited to hopefully be able to see console users get at least the bare minimum 64p 720+ 60fps BF experience since it makes a world of difference for spotting and overall enjoyment of the game.

Isn't the main advantage of Haswell lower power consumption?

You guys make it sound like you are expecting a 100% performance boost.

I don't think it will be anything like that. The reason I'm going with a 3930k is because I don't see anything that will smoke it profoundly for a while. Haswell CPU's may have better clock for clock performance but if you just bought a 3500k/3770k/3930k or even a 3820 (2011 lower end socket) I don't suspect you will be left in the dust. These CPU's will last for quite some time with the 3930k being the most future proof option but that doesn't mean a 3500 or 3770k are jokes.

It's really for the enthusiast who has to have the best and won't settle. Believe me, if I had the money floating around I'd be upgrading a couple times a year but there comes a time where you see that you may have a build which will last at least a few years.

To me, it's funner to build higher but in pieces. This year, I am spending a ton on this build but this will be my build for at least 2 years. It's now or never for me and as much as I love my 2500k build, this new build will absolutely run circles around this one. And that's saying a lot since I would say that outside of the GPU (6970) there is a very good upgrade path which would not be bottlenecked by my CPU (4.8ghz OC). That's how good my new build is going to be though.

The end :p

And on a separate note, I should be getting my new mouse pad and CM Spawn mouse. I am very excited to try this thing out. Anyone have the same mouse?
 

Koroviev

Member
I don't see the next generation of consoles doing a whole lot to shake up the PC market. Pre built machines are pre built machines, and consumers aren't keen on spending big money. I don't know how much the next consoles are going to cost (probably opting out at this point since I've used my PS3 hardly at all), but unless they are very expensive, I just don't see them having decent parts. Just look at the pre built PC market. $1000 gets you a piece of crap relative to what you can build yourself.
 

Momentary

Banned
Also with consoles being x86 and Sony having and OpenGL that shares many of the traits of DirectX11... I don't think you're going to see shit ports anymore after new consoles phase in. Also, it seems there are groups that are getting the hang of doing amazing jobs at porting over to PCs. Look at QLOC and DmC.
 
Hmmm... So I thought the NXZT source 210 came with a 2.5" mounting bracket, but it looks like I was wrong. IS it worth it to grab one, or should I just get some sticky velcro for it?

Otherwise, really solid, albeit barebones case for $32 :)
 

scogoth

Member
GAF, how big is the performance jump between a 3770K and a Xeon processor? I'm doing a quasi-server build for media production, if you're wondering.

Need more information then that. What OS are you running on the server, what applications will you run on it, how many concurrent users will use the server, is this mission critical work the server will be doing? Xeon processors and server hardware in general are a lot more expensive for the same performance but what you are paying for is low power consumption, reliability, service and support. If this is a small operation and a single server and you don't mind trouble shooting then a 3770K build can save you money.

The real question is how much money are you going to lose if your server goes down? Is it greater than the price premium of the Xeon? If yes then buy a Xeon system.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
GAF, how big is the performance jump between a 3770K and a Xeon processor? I'm doing a quasi-server build for media production, if you're wondering.

Pretty big when it comes to higher computing tasks. For a server, it's highly recommended. Larger cache on most Xeon CPU's as well.

If you get one of the newer 3930 or 3960/70k CPU's then they may serve a server build quite well but I would have to check on the cache differences.

If you're going to get a Xeon for gaming, stop right there though. A 3770k will make a better well rounded personal and enterprise ready solution in my opinion.
 

Setsuna

Member
Question

I have two hard drives both have Operating systems on them both are SATA drives

will i be able to hook my old one upto my current computer and be able to transfer data from one to the other
 

Addnan

Member
Finally finished building after starting hours ago. It's been a while since I last built one. That was harder than I remember it being. Now installing windows, everything seems to be working properly. Will post pics after I've set everything up.

Thanks everyone for helping me pick the parts :).
 

Ty4on

Member
GAF, how big is the performance jump between a 3770K and a Xeon processor? I'm doing a quasi-server build for media production, if you're wondering.

Depends on what Xeon. The cores are the same so a quad core Xeon on 1155 with the same frequency would perform identical. On 2011 you can get Xeons with eight cores.

2011 will last longer as well, so if you have the money a six core 3930k would be awesome. With a good cooler it also overclocks much better.
 

Bleeether

Member
What case is that? I am looking to do push/push for the H100i and it looks like it will clear just fine. I am using SP120's instead of the stock fans as well. Set me back 50 just for the fans so I am hoping for the best temps I can get outside of getting Noctua fans.

It's the CM Storm Stryker. I'm thinking about upgrading the fans with some Noctuas as well. The stock fans are incredibly loud.
 

Addnan

Member
Finished product. Do I have the CPU fan on the right way? Either way it seems to be very cool according to core temp.

ME5cZuhl.jpg
 

ominator

Neo Member
ok, i just ordere an Asus VG278H. :D

only thing missing now is: a new keyboar. headphones, an a mousepad

then i have a complete new PC system and i'm 2.500€ poor
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Finished product. Do I have the CPU fan on the right way? Either way it seems to be very cool according to core temp.

ME5cZuhl.jpg

Looks, good. I'm with scogoth though make sure that your CPU fan is pushing towards the back. Don't want it blowing air into your drive bays.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Finished product. Do I have the CPU fan on the right way? Either way it seems to be very cool according to core temp.

ME5cZuhl.jpg

You got the fan push right with your rear exhaust.

A small suggestion - Put your HDD's in the bottom bay if those drive bays are split and removable. That way you can have an intake fan pushing air discretely right onto the chassis and GPU. Improved airflow. I'm actually going to be doing the same. Another slightly different tip is getting 2.5 to 3.5" bays or something you can mount your HDD and SSD up to the top of the case under the DVD/CD drive. That way you can surely remove the big drive case from the chassis and provide maximum airflow potential.

Example of the Corsair 500R
2013-01-26-16232468kdx.jpg


There's 4-5 drive bays on each rack and you can remove one or the other or even both. Take the top one out if your rack is split and have a fan push air without much restriction. I have double fans in front of my case which push air in straight front the front on the side of the racks as you see in the pic. Even if if means only 1-3C better ambient temps you still want to be stingy and get the best working environment for your internals.
 

Addnan

Member
Thank you everyone, will take advice on board and make changes later tonight. Now I need to enjoy Crysis 3 now that it is playable.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Does anyone feel like it's a bad time to build a PC right now?

A lot of people seem to be building a PC for the first time, but I feel like a big reason is that this console cycle lasted so long and you can get a PC that can outperform the current consoles for under $1,000.

We won't know for sure how well the new consoles perform until they're out, but it's likely PC gaming is going to suddenly stop being such a value proposition, right? I could spend $1,200 on a PC right now and I'd be willing to bet that it would play something like Battlefield 4 pretty similarly to PS4/ 720. And then while games on those would look better and better as devs learn the ins and outs of the new hardware games on the PC would look worse and worse (or maybe just stay the same) as the hardware becomes increasingly unable to keep up new titles' demands.

I've been wanting to build a gaming PC for a loooong time and think I'm going to go for it next week. Most I can afford is an i5/ 660 ti setup and I'm debating between that and a more value-oriented i3/ 560 ti. I've been really excited but as I shop around for what case, mouse, and keyboard I want to get, I'm getting more and more worried that this fall the next-gen consoles are going to look as good or better than my PC for half the price.

I think I'm still going to go for it, Steam sales, the ability to upgrade, and better access to games I'm interested in (RTS, strategy, quirky indie stuff) will make it worth it in the long run. I guess I'm just wondering how well people who understand the tech think an i5/ 660 ti system will compare to the next-gen consoles, and if people think that high-end GPUs might get way cheaper when they come out when suddenly people have a ~$500 console to weight the purchase of a $500 GPU against.
I too am in the process of upgrading this year, and a bit concerned about the longevity of the i5/i7s. What I'm doing is spending more on a quality case and PSU at the moment, as well as an upgrade to a 660Ti. I'm going to keeping the motherboard, RAM and CPU (C2D!) until Haswell comes out around June.

I'm most likely to upgrade the GPU at least twice before the CPU, so waiting for Haswell seems like a good idea....?

Also keen on a Yea or Nay for Windows 8. I have 7, but there's some sort of free Media Center key for Win8 Pro which expires in a few days :/
Nope.

Specs are out on the new consoles. Crap processors that are essentially 4 cores. Low power mobile-grade GPUs. You're looking at machines that are outperformed by gaming laptops of today, which are not much compared to what the $1000 builds are. Not including fairy dust or pixie juice or whatever.

It's not like it was in 2004, when you had to buy a top of the line insane card to run Half Life 2, Doom 3, and Far Cry at 60 fps at 1280x1024. A top of the line card today can push most games at 2560x1440, or even 5760x1080.

The processors that we have are insane overkill for their purposes. The only reason why we have to so judiciously pick CPUs and overclock them is only because of seriously outdated engines that are only using 1-2 threads. Even then, a gaming load pales in comparison to something like a Prime 95 run, which is truly using the CPU's power.
I'm working on putting together a shopping list. Some parts will be bought as soon as I hit stateside on Feb 23rd and some in July. I'm holding off on the processor and accompanying items for it since Haswell is just around the corner. As for what I have listed as concrete items, a lot has to do with the theme of the case. mkenyon helped me out months ago when before I found out my deployment got extended. I'm glad that it did since the TITAN card got announced since I've been out here.

I'm trying to go without a fan controller, disc drive, and media drive.

CASE: Corsair Obsidian 900D $350.00 KEYBOARD: Corsair K95 $150.00 CPU: Haswell equivalent to the i7 3770K ~$350.00 MOTHERBOARD: Haswell e-ATX from ASUS or EVGA ~$300.00 GPU: 2 x TITAN from EVGA ~$1800.00 PSU: CORSAIR AX1200i $330.00 (sleeving:Mod/Smart Kobra High Density Cable Sleeving -Carbon Fiberl) RAM: CORSAIR Dominator Platinum 32GB 1600Mhz ~$330.00 (with white light bars) SSD: SAMSUNG 840 Pro 256GB or 512GB $210-$500 (More than likely I'll go with 256... I can't see myself spending $500 on 512GB. Spending $210 on 256 is bad enough.) HDD: 2 x 3TB hard drive ~$300.00 FANS: A few Corsair SP120s ~$120.00 CPU BLOCK: EK Haswell Block ~$120.00 GPU BLOCK: Ek Titan Block ~150.00 RESERVOIR: 2 x EK-MultiOption RES X3 250 $120.00 RADIATORS:2 x Aquacomputer Airplex Modularity System 240 Radiator - Aluminum Fins - Single Circuit ~$320.00

As for water cooling I know that I'm going to need fittings, valves, and tubing. I'm thinking about just doing clear tubing with clear coolant. I looking to do a dual loop system.

I don't know about sound cards / network cards or if I should even worry about them with higher end motherboards. I know some boards come Wi-Fi ready, which is enough for me since I don't really do competitive play on PC... Only things I come close to playing competitively is Street Fighter, Tekken and Virtua Fighter. As for a monitor... I'm really holding out on 2560x1440@120hz. I know that there's the Overlord and Catleap monitors, but I'm not wanting to overclock them myself. I'm not sure how long they would last after that. Plus I want something a little more stylish/classy. I like the way that the Catleap Q720 looks, but I've read that the stand and casing is cheaply made.
Those monitors, while able to have their board OC'd to 120hz, are incapable of displaying it. The panel's refresh rate is too high.

Dual loops are silly. Don't do that. It overly complicates things and makes systems super cluttered with zero benefit.

Swap the Corsair RAM for the Samsung RAM. If you want it purdy, put some waterblocks on it, and still spend less than you would on the dominator stuff.

I'd really suggest buying some stuff that is pre-sleeved from Corsair. If you are set on sleeving it yourself, then get a better PSU. Your system, with two Titans in SLI, will only be pulling ~600W. 1200W PSU is beyond overkill. Go for the AX850 (non i, the i is again NOT seasonic) or the Seasonic X850 if you want to have some headroom, 760 versions should be fine too.

I'd consider buying radiators that work well with the case. A single 240mm radiator will unlikely be adequate for SLI Titans. I haven't looked really closely at the 900D as I'm not super hyped about it, but I believe the bottom section hosts a 480mm radiator. I'd get one of those.
Finished product. Do I have the CPU fan on the right way? Either way it seems to be very cool according to core temp.

ME5cZuhl.jpg
Looks solid!
 

Mulligan

Banned
Okay, so i've tried changing drivers to no avail. I'm getting constant 5FPS in Far Cry 3...
The weird thing is that i only built my PC last week and it's been fine up to now. I had Battlefield 3 running at 70-110 in multiplayer, Guild Wars 2 was running at 80FPS and Far Cry 3 running at 45-60 FPS. Now for some reason B3 is down to 40-55, GW2 down to 40-50 and Far Cry down to 5FPS.. i havn't changed anything between last week and now so i have no idea what's going on.

So i think i've found the problem. I downloaded AIDA64 and it says that my GPU clock is at '300MHz (original: 1050MHz)' even though in MSi afterburner it's reading 1050MHz core clock and 1500MHz memory clock. I take it AIDA64 is correct as that would explain the terrible performance. Any idea what the issue is here?
 

n0n44m

Member
Ladies and Gentlemen of PC-GAF I present you my latest creation

Rru1aJJ.jpg

you can always get an extender for that 8-pin cable ;) but more importantly :

You have used the Molex->6/8-pin converter cables (which were probably included with your card). Your PSU however should have special GPU cables with these 6+2 (aka 8) pin connectors, which are always preferable over the converter cables (which are only included for people using downright ancient PSUs).

So I'd advice you to switch those :) will also clean up your cables quite a bit!

So i think i've found the problem. I downloaded AIDA64 and it says that my GPU clock is at '300MHz (original: 1050MHz)' even though in MSi afterburner it's reading 1050MHz core clock and 1500MHz memory clock. I take it AIDA64 is correct as that would explain the terrible performance. Any idea what the issue is here?

can you run both AIDA64 and MSI Afterburner, look at both graphs, then run something graphically intensive like "Heaven Benchmark 3.0 " in a window and see whether the frequency changes ?

300 seems like an Idle clock, which obviously should be around 1050 when it's rendering 3D. However I've never heard of Afterburner reading the wrong clockspeed ?
 
Right, I've been playing around with mkenyon's small form-factor build, and am wondering if there are any bottlenecks or improvements that can be made to this build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£154.68 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard (£90.36 @ Aria PC)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£32.36 @ Dabs)
Storage: OCZ Vertex Plus R2 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£79.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card (£161.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case (£32.38 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£37.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (£12.98 @ Scan.co.uk)
Total: £602.73
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-30 17:52 GMT+0000)

I'm waiting until may or so, to hopefully see the prices drop down some more. There's no case fans in this build, but I will grab the Scythe GT AP-15 as recommended unless I would need something stronger for my components. I'm kinda unsure about the case, PSU and motherboard, mostly because I think I might want to upgrade the RAM to 16GB, GPU and CPU in maybe 2-3 years, so would the motherboard be future-compatible for components coming out then or would I have to replace it?

Went with the GT660 because it is substantially cheaper than the GT660ti and only seems to be marginally less powerful (especially at the resolution, 1080p, I'm planning on playing). Not sure about the CPU, maybe a i5 2500k would be a better fit to the GPU?
 

kharma45

Member
Right, I've been playing around with mkenyon's small form-factor build, and am wondering if there are any bottlenecks or improvements that can be made to this build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£154.68 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard (£90.36 @ Aria PC)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£32.36 @ Dabs)
Storage: OCZ Vertex Plus R2 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£79.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card (£161.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case (£32.38 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£37.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (£12.98 @ Scan.co.uk)
Total: £602.73
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-30 17:52 GMT+0000)

I'm waiting until may or so, to hopefully see the prices drop down some more. There's no case fans in this build, but I will grab the Scythe GT AP-15 as recommended unless I would need something stronger for my components. I'm kinda unsure about the case, PSU and motherboard, mostly because I think I might want to upgrade the RAM to 16GB, GPU and CPU in maybe 2-3 years, so would the motherboard be future-compatible for components coming out then or would I have to replace it?

Went with the GT660 because it is substantially cheaper than the GT660ti and only seems to be marginally less powerful (especially at the resolution, 1080p, I'm planning on playing). Not sure about the CPU, maybe a i5 2500k would be a better fit to the GPU?

Change to a 3570K to allow you to overclock. This RAM is more expensive but it is in my view worth the money for how low profile it is and its ability to overclock http://www.cclonline.com/product/84...800C11-1600MHz-30nm-Dual-Channel-Kit/RAM0612/

Don't get an OCZ SSD either unless it's the Vertex 4. Ideally get either a Samsung 830 or 840 Pro, Crucial M4 or Kingston V300.

You could also change your PSU for this too http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005JRGVAW/ Ordered one myself so looking forward to getting it on Friday, offers modularity and 80+ Bronze over that Thermaltake one which I can't find any reviews on. Only down side is there isn't a UK power cord with it apparently but I'll see when I'm home to open it.

Might be a bit too much heat inside your small case but OCUK also has this 7870 XT on offer at the minute, pretty much 7950 performance at a lot less money https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-312-SP

Just some ideas to mull over. You won't really be able to upgrade your CPU in a few years time btw since Intel is changing the socket, you'll be limited to Ivy Bridge i7's at the only upgrade path. RAM you'll likely be fine for, 8GB I can't see being exceeded for a good while and the GPU is an easy swap.
 

Mulligan

Banned
can you run both AIDA64 and MSI Afterburner, look at both graphs, then run something graphically intensive like "Heaven Benchmark 3.0 " in a window and see whether the frequency changes ?

300 seems like an Idle clock, which obviously should be around 1050 when it's rendering 3D. However I've never heard of Afterburner reading the wrong clockspeed ?

I ran both and the AID64 reading seems to go back up to 1050MHz when under load but now i'm back to square one. I can't even open or run some programs or games now. 3DMark11 and Batman AC crash whenever i try running them, it's like gradually my PC is turning to shit for no reason after what seemed like a problem free first week. I have no idea...
 

Momentary

Banned
Those monitors, while able to have their board OC'd to 120hz, are incapable of displaying it. The panel's refresh rate is too high.

Dual loops are silly. Don't do that. It overly complicates things and makes systems super cluttered with zero benefit.

Swap the Corsair RAM for the Samsung RAM. If you want it purdy, put some waterblocks on it, and still spend less than you would on the dominator stuff.

I'd really suggest buying some stuff that is pre-sleeved from Corsair. If you are set on sleeving it yourself, then get a better PSU. Your system, with two Titans in SLI, will only be pulling ~600W. 1200W PSU is beyond overkill. Go for the AX850 (non i, the i is again NOT seasonic) or the Seasonic X850 if you want to have some headroom, 760 versions should be fine too.

I'd consider buying radiators that work well with the case. A single 240mm radiator will unlikely be adequate for SLI Titans. I haven't looked really closely at the 900D as I'm not super hyped about it, but I believe the bottom section hosts a 480mm radiator. I'd get one of those. !

Well that sucks about the monitors. I don't really keep up with monitor tech, but I've been reading about a refresh coming up pretty soon from manufacturers. Is there any news on a 2560x1440 @120hz displays?

I did consider the Samsung RAM and using waterblocks, but I just didn't see what the benefit in doing that would be. The blocks would look nicer than what comes with the Dominators, but I would lose the LED pipes that come on them. I guess I could do my own lighting.

Is the AX850 a rebranded Seasonic? What's so good about sticking with them? I also see the AX860 on their site? Is that one not good to go either?
-Edit: Just looked up the KitGuru review on them and they are Seasonic based. But they don't have presleeved cables ready to go for them? If I buy the AX850 presleeved cable set would that be compatible with the AX860?
-Edit: Seen alot of reviews about squeaky noise from it... Maybe Seasonic/Corsair had a defective batch on the first run.

So A single 480 would be good enough to cool RAM, CPU, and GPU without having a dual loop system? What I had listed were 2 240 radiators. I figure I would use one to cool the CPU and the other to cool the GPU. I also figure 2 cylinders and 2 radiators would fill out the case and not make it look so.... empty. But at the same time I don't want to get laughed at. Now that I think about it... maybe over complicating the loop will cause it to look gaudy on the inside.
 

Manp

Member
You have used the Molex->6/8-pin converter cables (which were probably included with your card). Your PSU however should have special GPU cables with these 6+2 (aka 8) pin connectors, which are always preferable over the converter cables (which are only included for people using downright ancient PSUs).

So I'd advice you to switch those :) will also clean up your cables quite a bit!

glad you said that. it's bothering me more than it should
KuGsj.gif


you can see one PCIE power cable in the picture if i'm not mistaken
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Hey guys, when the 200 mm top fan in my Corsair 600T case 'rattles' without actually hitting an external object like a loose psu cable or whatever, what would be the cause of that?

edit :

this one to be more precise...

600t_detail_fan_1.png


, for what it's worth the rattling subsides when I put light pressure on the middle of the fan.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
you can always get an extender for that 8-pin cable ;) but more importantly :

You have used the Molex->6/8-pin converter cables (which were probably included with your card). Your PSU however should have special GPU cables with these 6+2 (aka 8) pin connectors, which are always preferable over the converter cables (which are only included for people using downright ancient PSUs).

So I'd advice you to switch those :) will also clean up your cables quite a bit!

Thing is I didn't have enough 6+2 connectors with my PSU unless I just overlooked them since it's a modular psu.
 

n0n44m

Member
I ran both and the AID64 reading seems to go back up to 1050MHz when under load but now i'm back to square one. I can't even open or run some programs or games now. 3DMark11 and Batman AC crash whenever i try running them, it's like gradually my PC is turning to shit for no reason after what seemed like a problem free first week. I have no idea...

are your CPU temperatures OK ? Is the CPU clockspeed what it should be?

maybe you should run memtest 86+ , and look at the SMART status of your HDD/SSD in AIDA64

Windows itself never crashes?

Thing is I didn't have enough 6+2 connectors with my PSU unless I just overlooked them since it's a modular psu.

every new PSU (especially a 620W Seasonic) should come with at least 2 if not 4 of those cables :) I see one lying next to the case on that picture right ?

Hey guys, when the 200 mm top fan in my Corsair 600T case 'rattles' without actually hitting an external object like a loose psu cable or whatever, what would be the cause of that?

edit :

this one to be more precise...

, for what it's worth the rattling subsides when I put light pressure on the middle of the fan.

probably just bad bearings/lubrication in the sleeves is drying out (depending on the type of bearing)

not sure you can fix that yourself (easily) though, especially if it is due to worn out bearings

So A single 480 would be good enough to cool RAM, CPU, and GPU without having a dual loop system? What I had listed were 2 240 radiators. I figure I would use one to cool the CPU and the other to cool the GPU. I also figure 2 cylinders and 2 radiators would fill out the case and not make it look so.... empty. But at the same time I don't want to get laughed at. Now that I think about it... maybe over complicating the loop will cause it to look gaudy on the inside.

dual loops are pretty worthless because of efficiency: by putting it all in one loop you'll have nicely balanced cooling instead of your CPU loop being under-utilized and your GPU loop being over-utilized. The only thing that "suffers" from a single loop is the flowrate, but that is pretty insignificant anyway compared to radiator surface area

and RAM cooling is pretty pointless with DDR3 , unless I missed some new developments :p
 

bro1

Banned
I'm running a stock cooler right now with 3570K and have my Corsair Vengeance RAM set to XPS speed and timings so I am at an effective speed of 3.8.

At idle, I average about 33 with one core always a bit hotter. Under load, the highest I've seen is 65 with one core hitting 68. Is this ok to run at? I know with a 212 it will run cooler but I mean for the next month or so until I get around to installing the 212?

anybody?
 

metalshade

Member
Hey guys,I will try asking again, my post got lost a few pages back, I need to find a small keyboard, around 31cm, preferably wired, and not have ghosting issues for gaming.
Budget up to about £80, maybe higher for a really decent board.
Hope you can advise.
Thanks.
 

Momentary

Banned
dual loops are pretty worthless because of efficiency: by putting it all in one loop you'll have nicely balanced cooling instead of your CPU loop being under-utilized and your GPU loop being over-utilized. The only thing that "suffers" from a single loop is the flowrate, but that is pretty insignificant anyway compared to radiator surface area

and RAM cooling is pretty pointless with DDR3 , unless I missed some new developments :p


Well what I'm saying is would 2 separate smaller radiators be more benificial than 1 large radiator? If I had 1 large radiator and the flow went from reservoir to cpu to gpu to rad back to res would it off better cooling than say 2 240s going from res to cpu to rad to gpu to rad and back to the res again?

All I want RAM cooling is for aesthetics. If it's a bit too silly then I'll just stick with the Dominators with white LED tubes.
 
Does anyone feel like it's a bad time to build a PC right now?

A lot of people seem to be building a PC for the first time, but I feel like a big reason is that this console cycle lasted so long and you can get a PC that can outperform the current consoles for under $1,000.

We won't know for sure how well the new consoles perform until they're out, but it's likely PC gaming is going to suddenly stop being such a value proposition, right? I could spend $1,200 on a PC right now and I'd be willing to bet that it would play something like Battlefield 4 pretty similarly to PS4/ 720. And then while games on those would look better and better as devs learn the ins and outs of the new hardware games on the PC would look worse and worse (or maybe just stay the same) as the hardware becomes increasingly unable to keep up new titles' demands.

I've been wanting to build a gaming PC for a loooong time and think I'm going to go for it next week. Most I can afford is an i5/ 660 ti setup and I'm debating between that and a more value-oriented i3/ 560 ti. I've been really excited but as I shop around for what case, mouse, and keyboard I want to get, I'm getting more and more worried that this fall the next-gen consoles are going to look as good or better than my PC for half the price.

I think I'm still going to go for it, Steam sales, the ability to upgrade, and better access to games I'm interested in (RTS, strategy, quirky indie stuff) will make it worth it in the long run. I guess I'm just wondering how well people who understand the tech think an i5/ 660 ti system will compare to the next-gen consoles, and if people think that high-end GPUs might get way cheaper when they come out when suddenly people have a ~$500 console to weight the purchase of a $500 GPU against.

It's a great time to build a PC for the first time, IMO. There is a wealth of great games out there for cheap (or free), mods, indie stuff, the full current-gen catalog at better visual quality, etc. There will always be better hardware on the horizon, you just have to jump in at some point.

I'm a little concerned about how the next gen consoles will impact PC games, but any decent PC today will be able to easily outperform those consoles in all but the worst-optimized games. The only question is by how much.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Right, I've been playing around with mkenyon's small form-factor build, and am wondering if there are any bottlenecks or improvements that can be made to this build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£154.68 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard (£90.36 @ Aria PC)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£32.36 @ Dabs)
Storage: OCZ Vertex Plus R2 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£79.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card (£161.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case (£32.38 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£37.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (£12.98 @ Scan.co.uk)
Total: £602.73
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-30 17:52 GMT+0000)

I'm waiting until may or so, to hopefully see the prices drop down some more. There's no case fans in this build, but I will grab the Scythe GT AP-15 as recommended unless I would need something stronger for my components. I'm kinda unsure about the case, PSU and motherboard, mostly because I think I might want to upgrade the RAM to 16GB, GPU and CPU in maybe 2-3 years, so would the motherboard be future-compatible for components coming out then or would I have to replace it?

Went with the GT660 because it is substantially cheaper than the GT660ti and only seems to be marginally less powerful (especially at the resolution, 1080p, I'm planning on playing). Not sure about the CPU, maybe a i5 2500k would be a better fit to the GPU?

I really suggest avoiding the CM 120 for a SFF case in anything but really basic budget builds. The case is just not designed well enough for good airflow and will run loud.

I need to pull that Gigabyte board out of there and replace it with the MSI or ASRock model as well. The Gigabyte board has an odd OC system where it is maxed out at 4.2GHz and you do not get voltage control. So swap it out for one of those, preferably the MSI.

Ivy is the last processor on 1155. When time comes up upgrade CPU, motherboard will need to be upgraded to, but that's been the way of things for 6+ years.
Hey guys, when the 200 mm top fan in my Corsair 600T case 'rattles' without actually hitting an external object like a loose psu cable or whatever, what would be the cause of that?

edit :

this one to be more precise...

600t_detail_fan_1.png


, for what it's worth the rattling subsides when I put light pressure on the middle of the fan.
The Corsair 200mm fans are really, really, really crappy. It's one of the major reasons why I tell folks to avoid the 600T/650D.
SMH for people with Microcenter nearby. Out of jealousy of course.
Just fine!
Hey guys,I will try asking again, my post got lost a few pages back, I need to find a small keyboard, around 31cm, preferably wired, and not have ghosting issues for gaming.
Budget up to about £80, maybe higher for a really decent board.
Hope you can advise.
Thanks.
In da OP.
Well that sucks about the monitors. I don't really keep up with monitor tech, but I've been reading about a refresh coming up pretty soon from manufacturers. Is there any news on a 2560x1440 @120hz displays?

I did consider the Samsung RAM and using waterblocks, but I just didn't see what the benefit in doing that would be. The blocks would look nicer than what comes with the Dominators, but I would lose the LED pipes that come on them. I guess I could do my own lighting.

Is the AX850 a rebranded Seasonic? What's so good about sticking with them? I also see the AX860 on their site? Is that one not good to go either? Edit: Just looked up the KitGuru review on them and they are Seasonic based. But they don't have presleeved cables ready to go for them? If I buy the AX850 presleeved cable set would that be compatible with the AX860?

So A single 480 would be good enough to cool RAM, CPU, and GPU without having a dual loop system? What I had listed were 2 240 radiators. I figure I would use one to cool the CPU and the other to cool the GPU. I also figure 2 cylinders and 2 radiators would fill out the case and not make it look so.... empty. But at the same time I don't want to get laughed at. Now that I think about it... maybe over complicating the loop will cause it to look gaudy on the inside.
No 120hz 1440p monitors on the horizon. It sucks.

The AX850 and AX860 are both rebadged Seasonics. The i version of any of the AX PSUs are NOT though. I'm 99.9% positive the cables from the 850 will work with the 860. I'd shoot corsair an email to be 100% sure though.

Yeah, single 480 would be enough for that, depending on the 480 and fans being used. A second Titan would require additional cooling though.

If you are planning on going with a single Titan, then you are really buying too much case with the 900D. There's a lot of cases out there which will hold enough rad space for that kind of setup.
Well what I'm saying is would 2 separate smaller radiators be more benificial than 1 large radiator? If I had 1 large radiator and the flow went from reservoir to cpu to gpu to rad back to res would it off better cooling than say 2 240s going from res to cpu to rad to gpu to rad and back to the res again?

All I want RAM cooling is for aesthetics. If it's a bit too silly then I'll just stick with the Dominators with white LED tubes.
Nope. Watts dissipated are watts dissipated are watts dissipated. Water moves so quickly through the loop that the water temperature remains nearly constant throughout the entire thing. Even if you went through 2 GPUs before your CPU, you are looking at ~1C difference on the CPU than if it were first instead.
 

n0n44m

Member
Well what I'm saying is would 2 separate smaller radiators be more benificial than 1 large radiator? If I had 1 large radiator and the flow went from reservoir to cpu to gpu to rad back to res would it off better cooling than say 2 240s going from res to cpu to rad to gpu to rad and back to the res again?

All I want RAM cooling is for aesthetics. If it's a bit too silly then I'll just stick with the Dominators with white LED tubes.

Water hardly heats up between components :) like 1.5 C max from start to end in a cpu+sli loop with decent flow

So just keep it simple, lot less fittings needed as well then
 

garath

Member
Hey guys, when the 200 mm top fan in my Corsair 600T case 'rattles' without actually hitting an external object like a loose psu cable or whatever, what would be the cause of that?

edit :

this one to be more precise...

600t_detail_fan_1.png


, for what it's worth the rattling subsides when I put light pressure on the middle of the fan.

My 650D case had some pretty ugly vibration problems with the stock fans. It would not surprise me if the main culprit was the 200mm stock. My issues were similar - if I pressed on the side of the computer the vibrations would go away. I ended up replacing all the fans and I haven't had any vibration issues since.

I replaced the 200mm front fan with a BitFenix Spectre Pro (recommended by mkenyon):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007OWPFUM/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I replaced the top 200mm with 2 120mm Corsair AF120 quiet fans:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RESG7G/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I replaced the rear 120mm with the same AF120 quiet:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RESG3A/?tag=neogaf0e-20


Thanks for posting that link garath! Just ordered it so now I have my 2nd component on the way! :)

Awesome!
 

ejeezy24

Neo Member
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Ausm

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: Samsung 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($46.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($65.98 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.00 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1251.89


thinking about building a new pc from scratch. Budget is around 1200. Going to be used mainly for gaming. thoughts???
 

Draft

Member
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