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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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A

Asimov

Banned
Hello, GAF... newbie here!

I want to get a laptop, but it really doesn't matter if it can't run Crysis 3 at max settings. I will mostly use it at home, but I want a laptop instead of a desktop mainly because my house is very small.

I will use the computer mostly for Photoshop, Illustrator, FrameMaker and some 2D game design (GameSalad). I also have a lot of Steam games, but they are mostly indie games from the HumbleBundle.

I saw this computer at Best Buy. The form factor is great. Full aluminium with a backlit island keyboard. The specs are these:

  • HP ENVY 17.3"
  • Alumunium Body
  • Backlit Keyboard
  • 3rd Gen Intel® Core™ i7-3630QM processor at 2.4GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.4GHz
  • 8GB of DDR3
  • 1TB HDD
  • NVIDIA GeForce GT 635M graphics with 2GB of dedicated video memory
  • Fingerprint Reader
  • HD Webcam
  • Beats Audio
  • 3 USB 3.0 Ports
  • HDMI Out

The price in store is $900, but I want to take advantage of a $100 gift card I got on Christmas. So, it will be only $800.

What I want to know is:

  • Is there a laptop with better specs for the price?
  • Is the video card decent for indie games?

V5xewM0.png


Cubr2qM.png
 
Koroviev

Koroviev

Member
Asimov said:
Hello, GAF... newbie here!

I want to get a laptop, but it really doesn't matter if it can't run Crysis 3 at max settings. I will mostly use it at home, but I want a laptop instead of a desktop mainly because my house is very small.

I will use the computer mostly for Photoshop, Illustrator, FrameMaker and some 2D game design (GameSalad). I also have a lot of Steam games, but they are mostly indie games from the HumbleBundle.

I saw this computer at Best Buy. The form factor is great. Full aluminium with a backlit island keyboard. The specs are these:

  • HP ENVY 17.3"
  • Alumunium Body
  • Backlit Keyboard
  • 3rd Gen Intel® Core™ i7-3630QM processor at 2.4GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.4GHz
  • 8GB of DDR3
  • 1TB HDD
  • NVIDIA GeForce GT 635M graphics with 2GB of dedicated video memory
  • Fingerprint Reader
  • HD Webcam
  • Beats Audio
  • 3 USB 3.0 Ports
  • HDMI Out

The price in store is $900, but I want to take advantage of a $100 gift card I got on Christmas. So, it will be only $800.

What I want to know is... is there a laptop with better specs for the price?

V5xewM0.png


Cubr2qM.png
Click to expand...

You might want to post this in the notebook thread ;)

Although, my personal opinion is to avoid HP products like the plague.
 
A

Asimov

Banned
Koroviev said:
You might want to post this in the notebook thread ;)

Although, my personal opinion is to avoid HP products like the plague.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. Do you have the link for that thread?

I know HP products get a lot of hate around here, but so far I never had any problems with my previous HP laptops.
 
C

chickdigger802

Banned
So 7870 xt ordered...

hope its decent. won't be here until wednesday though :S

I reallly needa build a new rig someday though lol, case and mobo is 5 years old. Doesn't even support ddr3 ram :S
 
A

Alacrity

Neo Member
I'm thinking of going x79 with a 3820 instead of a z77 and a 3770k. What are the pros and cons of either chip set?

all this talk about ddr4 so I have to ask... obviously ddr3 boards won't be compatible for ddr4 ram? How big of a performance boost is ddr4 over ddr3?
 
A

angelfly

Member
Alacrity said:
I'm thinking of going x79 with a 3820 instead of a z77 and a 3770k. What are the pros and cons of either chip set?

all this talk about ddr4 so I have to ask... obviously ddr3 boards won't be compatible for ddr4 ram? How big of a performance boost is ddr4 over ddr3?
Click to expand...

What is it going to be used for? If it's just a gaming rig then you won't get and real benefit going with x79. If you plan on putting it to use (video editing, audio encoding, etc) then go with the 3930k rather than the 3820.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Alacrity said:
I'm thinking of going x79 with a 3820 instead of a z77 and a 3770k. What are the pros and cons of either chip set?

all this talk about ddr4 so I have to ask... obviously ddr3 boards won't be compatible for ddr4 ram? How big of a performance boost is ddr4 over ddr3?
Click to expand...
Post what you have and what you want to do, and if you have a budget or timeframe (See OP bullet list).

RAM only matters if you run out.
Go x79 if you get a 3930K and want to spend $800 more for faster editing/rendering time and you are buying $2000 of graphics.
 
P

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Is now a good time to build a new PC? I'm using a crappy Alienware M11x laptop (yes yes I know, never again). My buddy tried to convince me to wait for the inevitable price drop for when new consoles come out and shake up the market. Do you guys think it would be possible to drop ~1200 dollars now and build a relatively future proof (at least 3-4 years into the new console generation) PC that would be able to play next gen games at 45-60 fps at 1080p?

If it is possible I'll probably build it 1-2 weeks before the Steam summer sale.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Pancakes said:
Is now a good time to build a new PC? I'm using a crappy Alienware M11x laptop (yes yes I know, never again). My buddy tried to convince me to wait for the inevitable price drop for when new consoles come out and shake up the market. Do you guys think it would be possible to drop ~1200 dollars now and build a relatively future proof (at least 3-4 years into the new console generation) PC that would be able to play next gen games at 45-60 fps at 1080p?
Click to expand...
Hard to imagine much changing for most end users currently.

If you are planning to keep the build for a while I'd wait for Haswell in June.
 
A

Alacrity

Neo Member
Hazaro said:
Post what you have and what you want to do, and if you have a budget or timeframe (See OP bullet list).

RAM only matters if you run out.
Go x79 if you get a 3930K and want to spend $800 more for faster editing/rendering time and you are buying $2000 of graphics.
Click to expand...

angelfly said:
What is it going to be used for? If it's just a gaming rig then you won't get and real benefit going with x79. If you plan on putting it to use (video editing, audio encoding, etc) then go with the 3930k rather than the 3820.
Click to expand...

i7 930 which i can't overclock, I just get an overclock failed when i try, think its because this is an Ibuypower pc?
580gtx 1.5gb
16gb ram (I know overkill)

Mostly gaming at 120hz/1080p

I ordered a titan, and was planning on waiting for Haswell in June, but I've got the upgrade itch now. Mkenyon posted in the titan thread that the x79 and 3820 are a really good option, but I didn't really know why, so thought I'd ask.

Thanks
 
R

rohlfinator

Member
How big of a deal is a locked voltage when it comes to overclocking? I keep seeing people warning about that in reviews.

I'm not planning to use an aftermarket cooler or anything -- would I still be able to do some modest overclocking on a stock voltage card, or is it not even worth the effort?
 
Koroviev

Koroviev

Member
rohlfinator said:
How big of a deal is a locked voltage when it comes to overclocking? I keep seeing people warning about that in reviews.

I'm not planning to use an aftermarket cooler or anything -- would I still be able to do some modest overclocking on a stock voltage card, or is it not even worth the effort?
Click to expand...

You can, but the locked voltage is going to be the limiting factor.
 
E

Exuro

Member
How easy/hard is it to overclock a 920? I bought a 212+ for it a while back and haven't even attempted to oc it due to fear of breaking something :p
 
X

xJavonta

Banned
PwnCakes193 said:
The benefit here would be the amazing warranty at Costco. I looked on Newegg and I couldn't really find anything that was around this.



I looked through before I posted and it's still the factor of it just being ready. I know how to build the computer itself, as I've done it before a few times with friends and such, but my computer can die any day now and I can't have a day of downtime.

The issue is the S/PDIF if a necessity and so is having a decent amount of connections.

ALSO. Disregarding the video card is the computer still decent? I could have the computer compensated and then I can buy the graphics card on my own, which I have no problem with.
Click to expand...
It's really not worth it. You should just order the parts now so you can have them at your doorstep in a few days. Everything for my PC arrived from Newegg in 3 days, I'm sure your PC will hold out until then. Hell, you'd probably get it even faster if you choose the more expensive shipping options.
 
K

kennah

Member
Just a heads up to Canadians. Memory Express is going to be doing some kind of daily deal on the 3570k + P8Z77-LK combo on Tuesday. Price gets announced tomorrow night.

Also they currently have the 512 mb M4 for $349
 
C

catmincer

Member
Dumb question here but if I were to get something really low end for physx. Would there be any weird issues if combined with a 7950? Or do I need to go nvidia and nvidia?
 
L

lmpaler

Member
catmincer said:
Dumb question here but if I were to get something really low end for physx. Would there be any weird issues if combined with a 7950? Or do I need to go nvidia and nvidia?
Click to expand...

I have read conflicting things about this topic. Some people claim you can run a card solely for PhysX with an AMD card with some hack. Others call bullshit. SoI'm curious as well. Although I would think that you would run into driver conflicts considering you are running one for each card, but I have no experience in this case
 
S

sk3tch

Member
catmincer said:
Dumb question here but if I were to get something really low end for physx. Would there be any weird issues if combined with a 7950? Or do I need to go nvidia and nvidia?
Click to expand...

I did a bunch of tests on my site (1pcent.com) RE: NVIDIA GPU with dedicated NVIDIA GPU for PhysX and I found that the GTX 650 Ti was the best bang/buck there. Granted, it's not cheap...but I know that there has been a lot of work done to make dedicated NVIDIA GPUs work with AMD GPUs...but you have to deal with growing pains. Lots of good info on hybrid PhysX (what you are proposing) here:

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=115
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Alacrity said:
i7 930 which i can't overclock, I just get an overclock failed when i try, think its because this is an Ibuypower pc?
580gtx 1.5gb
16gb ram (I know overkill)

Mostly gaming at 120hz/1080p

I ordered a titan, and was planning on waiting for Haswell in June, but I've got the upgrade itch now. Mkenyon posted in the titan thread that the x79 and 3820 are a really good option, but I didn't really know why, so thought I'd ask.

Thanks
Click to expand...
It's because X79 has 40 PCI-E lanes, and with a 3820 for cheap (they go for $260-300 these days), you can plop in an Ivy-E processor when they release, or even down the line. We might have 8 core, 16 thread Ivy-E procs.

I look at it this way. If you are spending $1K on a GPU, might even SLI that down the road, then you should prep yourself for the best proc out there. 3820 is a beast and can easily clock to 5.0GHz, where you might be stuck at 4.3-4.5 with Ivy, unless you delid it which means no more warranty. X79 board + 3820 isn't too different in price compared to a nice Z77 board with a 3770K.
 
C

catmincer

Member
That is disappointing, fucking nVidia. Thanks for the info guys I will look into it. Perhaps this new amd hair thing might be a decent competitor.
 
Koroviev

Koroviev

Member
sk3tch said:
I did a bunch of tests on my site (1pcent.com) RE: NVIDIA GPU with dedicated NVIDIA GPU for PhysX and I found that the GTX 650 Ti was the best bang/buck there. Granted, it's not cheap...but I know that there has been a lot of work done to make dedicated NVIDIA GPUs work with AMD GPUs...but you have to deal with growing pains. Lots of good info on hybrid PhysX (what you are proposing) here:

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=115
Click to expand...

Hmm, I might be able to arrange this. I have a GTX 460 that I was going to attempt this with (still haven't looked into the details), but I think I can replace that with a 650ti fairly easily.
 
A

Alacrity

Neo Member
mkenyon said:
It's because X79 has 40 PCI-E lanes, and with a 3820 for cheap (they go for $260-300 these days), you can plop in an Ivy-E processor when they release, or even down the line. We might have 8 core, 16 thread Ivy-E procs.

I look at it this way. If you are spending $1K on a GPU, might even SLI that down the road, then you should prep yourself for the best proc out there. 3820 is a beast and can easily clock to 5.0GHz, where you might be stuck at 4.3-4.5 with Ivy, unless you delid it which means no more warranty. X79 board + 3820 isn't too different in price compared to a nice Z77 board with a 3770K.
Click to expand...

Makes sense, thank you. I'll probably go 3820 for now, and upgrade down the road. Any suggestions for motherboard, was looking at ASUS Rampage IV Formula, or is that overkill?
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Alacrity said:
Makes sense, thank you. I'll probably go 3820 for now, and upgrade down the road. Any suggestions for motherboard, was looking at ASUS Rampage IV Formula, or is that overkill?
Click to expand...
Depends on how far you want to push things, your cooling situation, what kind of GPU setup you are planning on running down the line. I think the P8X79 Pro and Sabertooth are both good middle grounds between the crazy high end stuff. The ASRock X79 Extreme 6 is amazing value. I think the best board for the price is the Rampage IV Gene. Same power delivery as the Formula, but you lose two PCI-E slots. No big deal unless you were planning on three way SLI.

Whatever you do though, make sure you get good RAM. The Samsung or Crucial 30nm stuff is good at $40-50 per 8GB.

Whatever you do, do not get an MSI, Gigabyte, or EVGA x79 board. All have really weird problems, and most can't even OC the 3820 properly due to the dependence on BCLK to get above 4.3.
chickdigger802 said:
hmmm does a c2q q9550 still hold up? What are the most cpu intensive games these days?
Click to expand...
Not really.

Starcraft 2, anything UE3 based (Borderlands, T:A, Hawken, lots of others), Source games, BF3 Multiplayer, and Planetside.
 
A

Alacrity

Neo Member
mkenyon said:
Depends on how far you want to push things, your cooling situation, what kind of GPU setup you are planning on running down the line. I think the P8X79 Pro and Sabertooth are both good middle grounds between the crazy high end stuff. The ASRock X79 Extreme 6 is amazing value. I think the best board for the price is the Rampage IV Gene. Same power delivery as the Formula, but you lose two PCI-E slots. No big deal unless you were planning on three way SLI.

Whatever you do though, make sure you get good RAM. The Samsung or Crucial 30nm stuff is good at $40-50 per 8GB.

Whatever you do, do not get an MSI, Gigabyte, or EVGA x79 board. All have really weird problems, and most can't even OC the 3820 properly due to the dependence on BCLK to get above 4.3.
Click to expand...

Thanks again, not planning more then just plain old SLI, the Gene is probably the way I'll go.


Edit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 Is this the Crucial ram? samsung is out of stock on newegg and amazon.
 
W

Witchfinder General

punched Wheelchair Mike
Ok, spent most of the afternoon overclocking my GTX670. After running Unigine Valley, RE6 bench and the FFXIV bench about a hundred times I finally settled on a stable clock.

*All figures from GPU-Z

Boost clock: 1178
Max boost: 1228.1
GPU Clock Memory: 1677

Are these figures respectable?
 
R

Redhood

Member
I have the following setup GAF

Intel i7 quad core 3.4 ghz
4 gb ram
Nvidia gtx 570 graphic card 1280 mb

I can upgrade the ram to 8gb.
I am settled for nex gen?
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Witchfinder General said:
Ok, spent most of the afternoon overclocking my GTX670. After running Unigine Valley, RE6 bench and the FFXIV bench about a hundred times I finally settled on a stable clock.

*All figures from GPU-Z

Boost clock: 1178
Max boost: 1228.1
GPU Clock Memory: 1677

Are these figures respectable?
Click to expand...
Not bad. Did you raise the power limit and voltage?
 
A

AllenShrz

Member
Does anyone knows is it is worth upgrading my current ram (DDR3 1333) to the maximum supported by my MB (DDR 2400)?

I have a core i5 3570k, HD7970,SSD, the mobo is a MSI ZH77A-G41.
 
P

Pandemic

Member
Anyone know if these specs are any good for a PC that will be used mainly for gaming, and I need it to last me a few years, so it'll need to play current and upcoming PC games.. :s
2013-02-25_0749.png
 
C

Cpt Cook

Neo Member
Pandemic said:
Anyone know if these specs are any good for a PC that will be used mainly for gaming, and I need it to last me a few years, so it'll need to play current and upcoming PC games.. :s
2013-02-25_0749.png
Click to expand...

Aaaahhhhh pccasegear, the great Australian PC shop, got to love it.

Mate that is a tidy PC, but savings can be made and redirected to upgrades. Maybe try the 3570k for less cash and buy 2 7970 with the savings.

Also PSU wise you could go a 650W Seasonic if you are only going to have one GPU.
 
E

EvilPengy

Banned
Guys quick question:

Thinking of SLI'ing my GTX 580 in a month or so. Should I do it or holdout for the 7XX series of Nvidia cards.

If I have the money at the time of the 7XX series release I'll most likely get a single 780.
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
Hey, I'm having trouble with my current computer for the first time today.

I was playing Tera tonight and the power randomly went out. Twice. No blue of screen. Nothing but just shutting down instantly.

And I don't know what would be causing it. I ran a furmark as soon as it happened. And because my case, an Antec 902, is a case without amazing cooling, the GPU did get to around 100 C when on max settings and on "burn" testing. However, it didn't get much over 100 c, and after doing it for about an hour, the thing still did not shut off.

And not once did the CPU seem to go above 50 C. And the CPU generally stays reasonably cool. My CPU is a 2500K with a stock heatsink since I haven't replaced it yet. And generally stays around 40 C being in my case. And my GPU is a lot hotter getting up to a max of about 102 C during a burn in test. Likely because of getting a lot of heat from my PSU.

However, though that is very, very high. From all I'm aware is slightly within the realm of safe. Also, the system has no shut down after a full hour of burn-in furmarking. So it doesn't seem like it should be overheating or having PSU voltage problems.

I went back to gaming and assumed it was a fluke. In the middle of playing I decided to go rest by a campfire and go take a shower. When I came back, the PC and it appeared perhaps only the PC, had shut down again.

I have an APC backup power unit that everything in my desk was plugged into. Thinking it might possibly have been having hiccups, I unplugged it from the wall and plugged in into a regular surge protector and turned it back on. Also running another furmark as I type. Time will tell if this fixes things.

But if this isn't my APC power backup, what could it be? And what precautions should I take in trying to keep my PC safe? I will also note this has never happened before, just tonight. I will also note this game performs quite well in games and gets the Benchmarks it should for this hardware.

Should I perhaps look into upgrading to a case with better cooling than the Antec 902? Should I look into going ahead and replacing my CPU heatsink already? Should I replace my Corsair 750W PSU for perhaps an Enermax PSU? Should I attempt to take my heatsink off of my XFX HD 6870 GPU and re-apply thermal paste?

I want this to end and I don't want any risk of hurting my computer by continuing to play games on it.

Sorry for asking this here, but I really don't know where better to put it.
 
T

TerryLee81

Member
Pandemic said:
Anyone know if these specs are any good for a PC that will be used mainly for gaming, and I need it to last me a few years, so it'll need to play current and upcoming PC games.. :s
2013-02-25_0749.png
Click to expand...

Is this the Samsung Basic SSD?

According to Anandtech, the 120GB has a life expectancy of about 3.5 years. The 250GB one should last at least 7 years.

If you can, get the Pro model or the 250GB Basic, but I wouldn't get the 120GB Basic.

Here's the review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6337/samsung-ssd-840-250gb-review
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
Okay, I just left my computer on furmark for about 30 minutes and it just shut down again.

It is definitely not the APC power backup.

I have a problem and need help. Help, please!
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Pandemic said:
Anyone know if these specs are any good for a PC that will be used mainly for gaming, and I need it to last me a few years, so it'll need to play current and upcoming PC games.. :s
2013-02-25_0749.png
Click to expand...
Fill out the OP bullet list so we can give you useful information.
HolyBaikal said:
Hey, I'm having trouble with my current computer for the first time today.

I was playing Tera tonight and the power randomly went out. Twice. No blue of screen. Nothing but just shutting down instantly.

And I don't know what would be causing it. I ran a furmark as soon as it happened. And because my case, an Antec 902, is a case without amazing cooling, the GPU did get to around 100 C when on max settings and on "burn" testing. However, it didn't get much over 100 c, and after doing it for about an hour, the thing still did not shut off.
Click to expand...
HolyBaikal said:
Okay, I just left my computer on furmark for about 30 minutes and it just shut down again.

It is definitely not the APC power backup.

I have a problem and need help. Help, please!
Click to expand...
First off, stop running FURMARK. Loading your GPU to 100C for an hour is not good even if you are stress testing, especially after 2 hard shut downs. It's a very unnatural draw and load.

Your PSU should be more than ok if you are only running a 7870 (Sub 400w draw max). First thing I would do is clean your card and make a much more aggressive fan profile so the card doesn't get super hot. Clean your case fans and filters as well. The 902 should be plenty fine. It's not like you have a 580 in there.

Swap the GPU into your other PCI-E slot and use different PSU PCI-E power connectors. See where you stand from there. Wouldn't hurt to run a quick 15 Memtest 86+ as well while you are at it to check your memory (Something I always do).

Also your APC might be supplying too low or high voltage depending on your load draws, so check that as well.
 
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