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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 1. 1080p and 60FPS is so last-gen and your 2500K is fine

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R

Rainy Dog

Member
DarrylMR said:
So I'm normally a console player, if I like the controller feel to gaming what games should I avoid on a PC?

I really want to build a PC for The Division but I heard bad things about controllers on a shooter game. Also would there be anyway to synchronize my PC monitor to my TV so that I could play my PC but relax on my couch (this is assuming I can't hook up my PC to my television).

Sorry for the sincere ignorance but I am really interested in the potential of PC gaming.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the others will chime in with a more convincing description than me, but I game on a PC that's connected only to a TV, exclusively with a 360 controller, on a comfy couch, and the games play exactly like their console counterparts. With button prompts and even aim-assist if the game has it. They just look and run better that's all :p I've not a desk or monitor in sight. All you need is a standard HDMI cable and you're good to go.

Couldn't be much simpler nowadays.
 
R

riflen

Member
DarrylMR said:
So I'm normally a console player, if I like the controller feel to gaming what games should I avoid on a PC?

I really want to build a PC for The Division but I heard bad things about controllers on a shooter game. Also would there be anyway to synchronize my PC monitor to my TV so that I could play my PC but relax on my couch (this is assuming I can't hook up my PC to my television).

Sorry for the sincere ignorance but I am really interested in the potential of PC gaming.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll enjoy competitive multiplayer FPS games on a pad (Counterstrike, Battlefield, Insurgency, etc). Everyone else will be using a mouse and most of those games will not provide any aim-assist.
RTS games will also be a pain on a device with so few buttons. I don't play them so I have no personal experience there. I only use a pad to play driving, 3rd-person action, platform or co-op FPS titles.
Gamepad support nowadays is very good indeed and it'll likely be a case of plug and play. Additionally, the Steam store shows whether a game has native controller support or not. Even if a game does not (increasingly rare), you can always make it work without much hassle using a free tool.

Any modern PC graphics card will feature an HDMI port for connection to devices like a TV. Some TVs will have a DVI input, which will give you another option. Both types of port will send audio and video to the TV fine. You will be able to connect both your monitor and TV to your PC at once if you wish, or swap between them with a key press if you like. There are few limitations and it's really up to you how you hook up your displays.
 
M

MrFrankFontaine

Banned
So I just recently picked up and installed a second SSD just for games (Samsung 840 EVO 1TB). Question is whether I should activate Rapid Mode for the gaming drive or for the OS drive (Samsung 840 Pro 256GB)?

Apparently you can only activate Rapid Mode for one SSD. Thoughts?
 
M

MisterM

Member
@ Rainy Dog

Riflen speaks the truth.

I play the majority of my PC games on an HDTV with a controller. Currently the only competitive FPS game which works well using a controller is Titanfall, not once have I felt at a big disadvantage using a 360 pad and I hold my own very well, often coming in the top three in a game.

Realistically using In Home Streaming to stream mouse dependent games to a laptop and using a USB mouse is much, much better than trying to use gamepad profiling software. Stick to games with native controller support, Steam makes this easy.

Singleplayer FPS games are fine and dandy using a controller. I've played through several, most recently Metro: Last Light which works perfectly. Likewise, when in Steam Big Picture mode any game which has a full image of a controller in the bottom-right of its "polaroid style" thumbnail will work perfectly without tinkering. Any with half a controller have partial support. Usually this means you can play the game fine using a controller but may need a keyboard to enter a character name, or need to use a mouse to navigate a menu to enable gamepad controls. I keep a Logitech K400 wireless keyboard around for this as it's cheap and has a built in trackpad although I rarely have to use it.

Full controller supported games: http://store.steampowered.com/searc...y2=28&sort_by=Released&sort_order=DESC&page=1

Partial controller supported games: http://store.steampowered.com/searc...y2=18&sort_by=Released&sort_order=DESC&page=1

You will be comfortable playing anything from the first list and probably anything from the second too. You might want to check forums/do a Google search first for some of the partially supported games.
 
L

lostsupper

Banned
Rainy Dog said:
I'm sure the others will chime in with a more convincing description than me, but I game on a PC that's connected only to a TV, exclusively with a 360 controller, on a comfy couch, and the games play exactly like their console counterparts. With button prompts and even aim-assist if the game has it. They just look and run better that's all :p I've not a desk or monitor in sight. All you need is a standard HDMI cable and you're good to go.

Couldn't be much simpler nowadays.
Click to expand...

Same. I can see the argument against the 360 pad for RTS', but not shooters. Battlefield in particular is fine with the 360 pad, provided you keep a keyboard next to you for some menu actions that can't be done with the controller.
 
M

MisterM

Member
lostsupper said:
Same. I can see the argument against the 360 pad for RTS', but not shooters. Battlefield in particular is fine with the 360 pad, provided you keep a keyboard next to you for some menu actions that can't be done with the controller.
Click to expand...

It works fine but I felt at a huge disadvantage in BF4, I went and tried it on my desktop PC and did much, much better. Titanfall however, does a really good job with aim assist and the difference is smaller.
 
S

soultron

Banned
Hey dudes, I have my ASUS GTX 660 from Jan but was thinking of upgrading for Watch Dawgs. Any recommendations? I'd probably be looking at a 760 unless you guys convinced me to avoid that range and go a bit higher. (I think I remember reading in some cases a 660 was similar-ish in power to a 760, not sure if I'm dreaming though.)
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
soultron said:
Hey dudes, I have my ASUS GTX 660 from Jan but was thinking of upgrading for Watch Dawgs. Any recommendations? I'd probably be looking at a 760 unless you guys convinced me to avoid that range and go a bit higher. (I think I remember reading in some cases a 660 was similar-ish in power to a 760, not sure if I'm dreaming though.)
Click to expand...

Which one comes with a free copy of Watch_Dogs? You'll be buying the game anyway, why not go higher and use that to offset the total cost?
 
S

soultron

Banned
Nostremitus said:
Which one comes with a free copy of Watch_Dogs? You'll be buying the game anyway, why not go higher and use that to offset the total cost?
Click to expand...

I already get the game for free so I may just sell the code, you have a good point! I totally forgot about the promotion going on.
 
K

kennah

Member
MisterM said:
I know you're going to suggest an i3 over the 6350 but is this still relevant with current ports?
Click to expand...
The 8 cores of the consoles is the thing that is irrelevant. They have four slow cores that are doubled (similar to how an i7 works). An i3 is still more powerful and allows for an upgrade path to an i5 or i7. Unfortunately amd just can't keep up.

If you were going for an Apu kind of setup then amd is a great route. But if it is for something with a gpu it just can't be recommended. Granted intel won't be as cheap, but this is where used parts could be looked into. A cheap 2500K with motherboard isn't all that hard to find and is still very competitive for gaming. Mkenyon made a post about the differences between amd and intel, I'm sure someone will quote it soon enough.

Basically - do your research, don't just go by number of cores, gigs of ddr5, which manufacturer is in what. All of those things are part of a bigger picture. (Answers : cores are pointless right now because no one codes for more than two cores and that takes time to learn - and by the time that it does become relevant better stuff will be available anyway, 8gigs of ddr5 just means that it is accessing the system ram at 6ghz instead of 1.6ghz - but since we are still limited by disc access speeds it doesn't make that much of a difference in gaming applications, all the coding is done through application layers that are hardware independent anyway - things look pretty much exactly the same on amd or nvidia and math doesn't give a shit about intel vs amd for cpu)
 
L

LordAlu

Member
kennah said:
The 8 cores of the consoles is the thing that is irrelevant. They have four slow cores that are doubled (similar to how an i7 works). An i3 is still more powerful and allows for an upgrade path to an i5 or i7. Unfortunately amd just can't keep up.

If you were going for an Apu kind of setup then amd is a great route. But if it is for something with a gpu it just can't be recommended. Granted intel won't be as cheap, but this is where used parts could be looked into. A cheap 2500K with motherboard isn't all that hard to find and is still very competitive for gaming. Mkenyon made a post about the differences between amd and intel, I'm sure someone will quote it soon enough.

Basically - do your research, don't just go by number of cores, gigs of ddr5, which manufacturer is in what. All of those things are part of a bigger picture. (Answers : cores are pointless right now because no one codes for more than two cores and that takes time to learn - and by the time that it does become relevant better stuff will be available anyway, 8gigs of ddr5 just means that it is accessing the system ram at 6ghz instead of 1.6ghz - but since we are still limited by disc access speeds it doesn't make that much of a difference in gaming applications, all the coding is done through application layers that are hardware independent anyway - things look pretty much exactly the same on amd or nvidia and math doesn't give a shit about intel vs amd for cpu)
Click to expand...
You could even go smaller than mATX if you wanted to as well. A small ITX build can look great next to the TV!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-4130 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor (£77.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Asus H81I-PLUS Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard (£49.38 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£49.98 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£40.63 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB WINDFORCE Video Card (£110.99 @ Ebuyer)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case (£35.98 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (£35.59 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £400.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-14 17:42 BST+0100)
 
K

kiyomi

Member
Couple of quick questions for a newbie like me.

1. Is AH-IPS okay for gaming? I'll be playing a very broad range of games (FPS, RPGs, 2D, etc). I'm looking at the Asus VX229H.

2. I'm going to need a CPU cooler for the 4690K when it comes out - will a 212 Evo fit inside a Fractal Design Define Mini? Their website says it has a clearance of around 160mm, and the Evo is listed at 159mm. So, a tight fit, but doable? Has anyone actually done it? Or seen it done?

3. What are the best noise:price 120mm fans around? Apparently the Mini can get a little hot, so I'm considering adding another at the front, or replacing one somewhere. I'll certainly be replacing the 212 Evo fan. Again though, silence is slightly more important than cooling, I just want to know what some decent options are.
 
S

soultron

Banned
Monosukoi said:
3. What are the best noise:price 120mm fans around? Apparently the Mini can get a little hot, so I'm considering adding another at the front, or replacing one somewhere. I'll certainly be replacing the 212 Evo fan. Again though, silence is slightly more important than cooling, I just want to know what some decent options are.
Click to expand...

Not sure if these are still available (they're usually $10 if you can find them) or the best choice, but I bought 2 additional Fractal R2 120mm fans for my Fractal R4 case and I cannot even hear them. They're whisper-quiet.
 
D

Danneee

Member
Rainy Dog said:
I'm not convinced about the fan curve you know... I have an MSI 290 which is essentially the same card but a bit beefier and I've not seen it go over 65-70 degrees and not touched the default fan curve. Bigger case but the Define R4 is not that well ventilated either and certainly shouldn't cause that big a descrepancy between our temps. Hope you get it sorted anyway.

Thanks for the input on the 304 and I'm still wondering about my PSU actually. Current one is a Seasonic M12II 520w non-modular which is 140mm long. So size won't be an issue but I'm still concerned about cabling being non-modular. I really would like to maximise airflow as much as poss in the limited space so might yet pony up for a modular G-550w.

Can excess PSU cables be stuck behind the front panel underneath the fans? I see some folk are putting SSD's there...
Click to expand...

Yeah, well in normal gaming it doesn't go over 75 degrees and all my fans are sucking air into the case. Plus I've read that the tubing to the H60 can get pretty hot too so that could contributet o the high temps.

I put allt the exces cabling/lenghts of cables in the one HDD mount that I left for my SSD. But I'm not that good at cable management so I don't put much effort into it. My PSU is 15 cm in lenght and semi modular, and there's plenty (2 cm) of space between the modular cables and my GPU.
 
M

Monkeybutlerz

Neo Member
mkenyon said:
The 780 will give you a much smoother gaming experience than SLI 580s, but it's not a huge upgrade. The 290X would be more of an upgrade. Your processor will hold you back in a number of games that are CPU heavy, especially multiplayer games, UE3 games, Source games, and MMOs. A lot of the stutters and hiccups you might feel will still exist.

Seeing as you went with the enthusiast socket (1366 vs 1156), you might consider Haswell-E or Devil's Canyon (Haswell redux) which should be out some time later next month.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, I'll have to think things through and I'll definitely keep track of those new CPUs coming out.
 
F

fuzaco

Member
Does anyone have any experience with the Arctic F14 PWM fans? They're cheap, have high CFM, but I'm not sure about their noise. They would go into a Define R4 case, and I would like to know if they're really loud or not.

Also, is there a big difference between the Define R4 and the Define R4 Windowed in noise levels? I really like the window, but if the standard version would be significantly quieter, I could live without it.

And how many fans are overkill? The R4 has 6 (or 7 for the standard version) slots, and I was planning to fill all of them, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
 
N

Nostremitus

Member
MisterM said:
Thanks, LordALU that looks good!

How does the 750Ti compare to the 270X though?
Click to expand...

From
http://benchmarkreviews.com/6676/msi-radeon-r9-270x-gaming-2gb-video-card-review/11/

and
http://benchmarkreviews.com/12744/nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-benchmark-performance/8/

Battlefield-3_Benchmark.jpg


Battlefield-3_Benchmark.jpg


Metro-2033_DX11_Benchmark.jpg


Metro-2033_DX11_Benchmark.jpg


Unigine_Heaven_DX11_Benchmark.jpg


Unigine_Heaven_DX11_Benchmark.jpg
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Crosspost from B/S/T:

For sale/trade: GTX 780 Ti K|NGP|N w/ EK block/backplate, stock block/backplate, all original packaging and acessories.

6dc02152_0a2cor3.jpeg

e4b5c1d8_L4yVIRZ.jpeg

086a01db_qxYrTfK.jpeg
Click to expand...

Would take $825 shipped, and I would not discount without the block. The only trades I'm looking for are a GTX 780 (reference, ACX, Lightning, DCII, or Classy only) or 4670K.

I overbought on it, and need to get the funds together to finish a 3rd PC for an upcoming LAN :(
 
S

scogoth

Member
mkenyon said:
Crosspost from B/S/T:

For sale/trade: GTX 780 Ti K|NGP|N w/ EK block/backplate, stock block/backplate, all original packaging and acessories.



Would take $825 shipped, and I would not discount without the block. The only trades I'm looking for are a GTX 780 (reference, ACX, Lightning, DCII, or Classy only) or 4670K.

I overbought on it, and need to get the funds together to finish a 3rd PC for an upcoming LAN :(
Click to expand...

You're crazy
 
L

LordAlu

Member
MisterM said:
Thanks, LordALU that looks good!

How does the 750Ti compare to the 270X though?
Click to expand...
It's good for 1080p on High settings with a little AA, but it certainly isn't as good as a R9 270X, which is generally equivalent to the old 7870. You pay for what you get though - a similar model 270X is £40 more.
 
J

jakomocha

Member
mkenyon said:
Crosspost from B/S/T:

For sale/trade: GTX 780 Ti K|NGP|N w/ EK block/backplate, stock block/backplate, all original packaging and acessories.



Would take $825 shipped, and I would not discount without the block. The only trades I'm looking for are a GTX 780 (reference, ACX, Lightning, DCII, or Classy only) or 4670K.

I overbought on it, and need to get the funds together to finish a 3rd PC for an upcoming LAN :(
Click to expand...

Wait, I'm confused. You will trade that for a GTX 780 Classified, or $825?
 
S

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
mkenyon said:
Crosspost from B/S/T:

For sale/trade: GTX 780 Ti K|NGP|N w/ EK block/backplate, stock block/backplate, all original packaging and acessories.



Would take $825 shipped, and I would not discount without the block. The only trades I'm looking for are a GTX 780 (reference, ACX, Lightning, DCII, or Classy only) or 4670K.

I overbought on it, and need to get the funds together to finish a 3rd PC for an upcoming LAN :(
Click to expand...

HNNNNNG.
 
D

Dunbar

Member
Are the build sheets in the OP still a good place to begin researching new parts? I think I see chips newer than the i7 4770k available for purchase, for example.
 
IMACOMPUTA

IMACOMPUTA

Member
If anyone is interested in going green, I'd be willing to trade an Asus dcuII 780TI for 2 290's (or 2x290x :p ).
Kind of a shot in the dark, but whatever. I need more power ho ho.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Dunbar said:
Are the build sheets in the OP still a good place to begin researching new parts? I think I see chips newer than the i7 4770k available for purchase, for example.
Click to expand...
There's a big release pending with Z97 and "Devil's Canyon" which is a rehash of Haswell with supposed better overclocking potential. The other "new" processors you see are not better than the ones in the OP, as they're all locked. They're not even really better than the ones they are replacing.
 
M

MrFrankFontaine

Banned
MrFrankFontaine said:
So I just recently picked up and installed a second SSD just for games (Samsung 840 EVO 1TB). Question is whether I should activate Rapid Mode for the gaming drive or for the OS drive (Samsung 840 Pro 256GB)?

Apparently you can only activate Rapid Mode for one SSD. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Bumping in case anyone has any input.
 
M

MrFrankFontaine

Banned
mkenyon said:
Just make sure you have the RAM for it, but do it for the primary drive. I wouldn't do it with anything less than 16GB.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I upgraded to 16GB of RAM at the same time, so I'm good there. As I mostly use this PC for gaming, wasn't sure if using it on the gaming drive was better for the games or putting it on the primary drive where the OS and applications sit was better.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Load times are already stupid fast for games. Having your general OS and programs speedier (though you might not be able to tell much of a difference) is where you'd have the most benefit.
 
T

Thretau

Member
Monosukoi said:
3. What are the best noise:price 120mm fans around? Apparently the Mini can get a little hot, so I'm considering adding another at the front, or replacing one somewhere. I'll certainly be replacing the 212 Evo fan. Again though, silence is slightly more important than cooling, I just want to know what some decent options are.
Click to expand...
Scythe makes some excellent silent fans. Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800 RPM version is extremely quiet and a very high quality fan with good cooling power also. Unfortunately it's a discontinued product so it might be difficult to find. Other Scythe products are worth considering as well.
 
R

Relax.MX

Member
A friend sold me his laptop for 4500 pesos, something like 400 USD, this is the specs:

Intel® Core™ i7-2640M Processor
6 ram
Windows 8
Dell Inspirion

Worth?
 
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