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[scydrex]

Most PS gamers can appreciate the difference between performance and fidelity mode, I think if this system basically says "I give both, spend more and instantly have everything" that's an easy to understand USP, not a Where's Waldo.

That's still an if in my mind, but a much smaller one after this thread. Looks like PS5 Pro can essentially do this but I wonder if Sony will actually tell anyone?

But Cerny said it in the video. The purpose of Pro is playing ps5 quality mode but at 60fps in Pro. Ps5 Performance mode in Pro will look better like FF7 Rebirth.

 

[Elios83]

But Cerny said it in the video. The purpose of Pro is playing ps5 quality mode but in 60fps and maybe better IQ.

The point of them system is absolutely clear, just like it's clear that everyone can see the differences between quality and performance modes on current PS5.
People pretending it's something minor or that you have to zoom on a picture to notice are obviously disingenous.
Price is one thing, the quality of the hardware another.

 

[Team Andromeda]

£700 quid for a shaper imagine LOL. SONY are ripping the piss

 

[Physiognomonics]

oh no! The base model has the guard further! Pay to win confirmed! /s

Looks like John from DF already has the machine. Interesting times ahead…

Wait he has the console or he has higher res screenshots? Not clear.

 

[Zeusexy]

So? It's just the new upscaling + sharpening. The previous one, FSR1, was notoriously terrible and they should've used 2 or 3 long ago instead of making you pay double for this upgrade. 3.1 is good. They ditched AMD in the worst possible moment.

 

[Hunnybun]

You did great OP and clearly spent some time on this. Someone had to do it (as clerly the 'experts' were not doing to do it at least for free for Playstation).

This is really important and this is why this showcase was a difficult one for Sony. How you show doubling the framerate? Cerny, again, did an astounding job given the ressources he had (a 60 CUs AMD GPU).

What do you mean, how do you show doubling the frame rate? You literally just show 60fps footage next to 30fps footage. It's a night and day difference.

 

[GrayDock]

Watching this footage, the visual difference is worth for me.
And why didn't Sony broadcast this 4k version?

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Lou2 in fidelity mode on ps5 runs 4k so it looks pssr is realy good as its sharper than native (tough quite sure in this example internal for pssr is 1440p and we will probably more often see internal 1080p)

 

[Hunnybun]

Surely astro bot will have day 1 pro support?

I'd guess so. The thing is, as simple as it looks most of the time, I actually think it could use this PSSR. The IQ isn't that great at all. I see quite a bit of flickering and aliasing on distant scenery.

 

[Fafalada]

The dollar price difference is not too terrible. The problem in Europe it is €449 vs €799.

The sad part about this is - I'd be more ok with it if that was 'the' difference.
But then I see 699$ on the other side and I get a knee jerk reaction that I don't want to pay these corps any money. I have the same problem with Apple / Microsoft laptops, Facebooks VR and many others similary overpriced European SKUs. It's not that the absolute price is a problem - it's that they are making me feel BAD for paying it, so I rather not.
Now sure - I am in US a few times a year so I may sometimes buy these gadgets at their original price and import them myself, but that's kind of exemplifying how dumb of a problem this is.

Double the framerate with the same CPU and a 45% increase in GPU rendering performance? How is that possible?

Most games already run double the framerate on the same CPU, it's just a question of how many pixels you get on screen. And they don't need to double those - PS4Pro promised 'dynamic 4k' and basically no game ever doubled the pixels(let alone quadruple, that they claimed to deliver) - when increases did happen, we usually got 1.5-1.7x. Which is what PS5Pro is doing as well.
The rest - rested on upscaling, and that's only gotten better this round.

 

[sachos]

Damn, amazing thread! Im telling you man when DF does a proper comparison PSSR vs FSR2 people will be sold on this thing.

 

[Mr Moose]

PS5 Pro, or some wheels... Tough choice.


If only the wheels came with a disc drive

It's a welcomed boost to IQ and at 60fps, can't wait to see more 3rd party games.
I won't be joining the day one buyers (unless they decide to include disc drive and I ain't paying over £699 for that) but I am liking what I am seeing so far.

 

[hinch7]

In the uk it's 390 for a digital vs 700 pounds. Digital is often on sale and even the disk drive ps5 is often 399 it's double the price more or less for this meager upgrade

Not even nvidia is fucking it's fans like this. Just think about that.

True the UK, EU, AUS and JP really got fucked on its pricing. Though to be fair Nvidia isn't any better and has basically done just that, this generation. At least they're more consistant with their regional price.

The 4070Ti is effectively a 4070 priced at £800 at launch. And they tried to call that a 80 class card before the backlash. Thats over 70% bump from the 3070 at £469. The 4080 was bumped to £1269 from £679 of the 3080.

They're just pricing it like that because there's no competition. Xbox console sales and interest plumeted and they cancelled its refresh. Sony are just cashing in.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

oh no! The base model has the guard further! Pay to win confirmed! /s

Looks like John from DF already has the machine. Interesting times ahead…

Yup more stuff coming

I AM SOLD

 

[JackMcGunns]

I want to see what Black Myth Wukong will look like on the PS5 Pro, that's going to be the game changer for me.

 

[HogIsland]

The Pro will have to support cross-gen into the PS6 for at least 3 years to not be a complete ripoff.

 

[Hugare]

PS5 Performance vs PS5 Pro = Pro much better? No shit

PS5 Fidelity vs PS5 Pro = Now this is a better comparison. Pro is definitely better. I would just argue its not that much better for the asking price.

Specially since in some games you have the 40 FPS option for Fidelity, so the jump from 40 to 60 will feel even more minimal

 

[fudgybrownie]

Hopefully at TGS they will show off more comparisons for 3rd party games.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

£700 quid for a shaper imagine LOL. SONY are ripping the piss

Not trying to be anal... but its £389 for a PS5, and £311 more on top of that for a PS5pro. So its not £700 for a sharper image. Its £311 for a sharper (and faster) image.

There is a difference.

If you don't want a sharper and faster image, then the PS5 for you cost you £389. If you want it, then you are being asked to spend £311 more on top of what you would have paid for the base model. Context is everything...

 

[King Dazzar]

PS5 Pro, or some wheels... Tough choice.


If only the wheels came with a disc drive

It's a welcomed boost to IQ and at 60fps, can't wait to see more 3rd party games.
I won't be joining the day one buyers (unless they decide to include disc drive and I ain't paying over £699 for that) but I am liking what I am seeing so far.

You'd hope there would be some package deals further down the road.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

So? It's just the new upscaling + sharpening. The previous one, FSR1, was notoriously terrible and they should've used 2 or 3 long ago instead of making you pay double for this upgrade. 3.1 is good. They ditched AMD in the worst possible moment.

You on cheap drugs or something? Comparing this to any kinda FSR????? And just the new upscaling?

Anyways, just a heads up for you, AMD is going to dump AMDs 3.1 if any of the PS5pros AI tech makes it into the RDNA4 GPUs (which it should).

Lou2 in fidelity mode on ps5 runs 4k so it looks pssr is realy good as its sharper than native (tough quite sure in this example internal for pssr is 1440p and we will probably more often see internal 1080p)

W in cases where the PS5pro is reconstructing from 1080p to 4K... imagine how whatever that mode must look like on the base model. Its probably doing dynamic 4K hovering around 1440p and using FSR2 to push it to 4K all he while at 30fps. If PS5pro drops that to 1296p+PSSR>4K+60fps? It will still come out looking much better..

 

[ByWatterson]

These are very significant differences.

I'm so in.

 

[aclar00]

People complained because they showed TLOU P2, calling it a PS4 game, knowing full well that this is not the PS4 version but the PS5 Remaster and easily one of the best looking games on the market...

I really don't know why we can't have honest discourse.

Yeah but its not a remake, so isnt it essentially just an upscaled version of an upscaled version? I honestly expect the next ND to make TLOU2 PS5 to look last gen.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Not trying to be anal... but its £389 for a PS5, and £311 more on top of that for a PS5pro. So its not £700 for a sharper image. Its £311 for a sharper (and faster) image.

There is a difference.

If you don't want a sharper and faster image, then the PS5 for you cost you £389. If you want it, then you are being asked to spend £311 more on top of what you would have paid for the base model. Context is everything...

It's £700 for a Pro A SIMPLE FACT.

FACTS are everything

 

[JimboJones]

Wait he has the console or he has higher res screenshots? Not clear.

Sony has made a 65GB PRO RES version of the presentation available to press. This is where these new videos and images are coming from.

 

[Polelock]

Hmmm, now I'm on the fence. The enhancements are pretty significant but I'm still wobbling on the fence.

 

[Wooxsvan]

looks impressive to me, im still gonna wait until i see the games i want running at 60 before buying. MH Wilds and GTA 6

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

It's £700 for a Pro A SIMPLE FACT.

FACTS are everything

Of course. Facts are facts. That is not what you said initially though is it?

You said... and I quote...

£700 quid for a shaper imagine LOL. SONY are ripping the piss

that's a contextual statement because you put a price... and wait for it... what that price is for.

All I did was correct your statement.

Because for a game console (or anything gaming to be exact), what else are you paying more money for if not better image and higher framerates? Oh... I even forgot the extra 1TB of Storage too.

 

[Roman Empire]

Not bad, but not enough at the $700 price range. I'll probably grab it later down the line next year as I did the jump to digital.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

W in cases where the PS5pro is reconstructing from 1080p to 4K... imagine how whatever that mode must look like on the base model.

We know how it looks on ps5 amateur ;d Outlaws, Wukong, Rebirth and ff16 perf mode. Not good.

 

[XXL]

Better job with the OP than Sony's actual presentation did Vick . In these comparisons, it's a pretty decent clarity upgrade over fidelity mode plus double the framerate. Not bad.

100%

TLOU 2 and Ratchet both look much better than fidelity mode.

I was fully expecting it to be fidelity mode running at 60fps. But in reality it's better than fidelity mode at 60fps.

Also there is a serious possibility that BG3 might be (close to) 4K 60fps on this thing, which will end up taking another few hundred hours of my life. Lol.

 

[Mister Wolf]

100%

TLOU 2 and Ratchet both look much better than fidelity mode.

I was fully expecting it to be fidelity mode running at 60fps. But in reality it's better than fidelity mode at 60fps.

Also there is a serious possibility that BG3 might be (close to) 4K 60fps on this thing, which will end up taking another few hundred hours of my life. Lol.

Black Myth would be a great showcase.

 

[XXL]

Black Myth would be a great showcase.

Yeah, Wu Kong should look amazing on this thing.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I'll always go PC when I care about graphical fidelity. I have a PS5 because Sony still puts out a lot of must-have exclusives or timed exclusives, but I can live with 1440p on those games. It just isn't a big problem for me, and it's still not gonna keep up with stuff like Cyberpunk Overdrive or Alan Wake path tracing.

 

[Miles708]

Apparently the answer to optimization is not better tools/more time/better support from console manufacturers, but throwing money at the problem.

Glad to see the PC Master Race (TM) mentality in the console space too.
Exactly what we needed.

 

[Gaiff]

Also there is a serious possibility that BG3 might be (close to) 4K 60fps on this thing, which will end up taking another few hundred hours of my life. Lol.

Not in Act 3. Act 3 is extremely CPU-intensive and the slight bump won't make a difference. It barely maintains 30 in Act 3, so you will get 4K 35fps on the Pro.

 

[Dunker99]

Looks good - I’m in!

My only worry is that PSSR will over-sharpen the image (like turning up sharpening on a tv) so that everything looks unrealistically crisp.

 

[KU_]

if not for the gifs i wouldnt tell any difference.

So far this is just a waste of money

The fact that threads like this have to exist tell you everything you need to know. If you have to make GIFS highlighting the incremental increase in fidelity, it’s apparent that we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns. I understand this is a premium option for hardcore enthusiasts, but the idea that people will spend over $700 dollars for something so negligible is why companies continue to do it.

 

[Gaiff]

Apparently the answer to optimization is not better tools/more time/better support from console manufacturers, but throwing money at the problem.

Glad to see the PC Master Race (TM) mentality in the console space too.
Exactly what we needed.

 

[XXL]

Not in Act 3. Act 3 is extremely CPU-intensive and the slight bump won't make a difference. It barely maintains 30 in Act 3, so you will get 4K 35fps on the Pro.

Act 3 is pretty much fixed now as far as I know on console and PC.

I own it on PC and PS5, but I primarily play it on PC so I'm not as up to date on the PS5 version, but I've heard it was fixed. PC version is fine now.

 

[Gaiff]

Act 3 is pretty much fixed now as far as I know on console and PC.

I own it on PC and PS5, but I primarily play it on PC so I'm not as up to date on the PS5 version, but I've heard it was fixed. PC version is fine now.

Fixed because it usually manages to hover around 30 and not drop to the 20s anymore. It's just very demanding because of how much is going on. A 3600-tier GPU doesn't come close to maintaining 60fps. In fact, it never even approaches it in Act 3. You need a high-end CPU for that.

 

[XXL]

The fact that threads like this have to exist tell you everything you need to know. If you have to make GIFS highlighting the incremental increase in fidelity, it’s apparent that we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns. I understand this is a premium option for hardcore enthusiasts, but the idea that people will spend over $700 dollars for something so negligible is why companies continue to do it.

You don't need gifs.

Just watch this 4K video on a 4K TV the difference is immediately noticeable.

 

[KU_]

You don't need gifs.

Just watch this 4K video on a 4K TV the difference is immediately noticeable.

I’m not questioning there’s a slight improvement. I’m simply saying the improvement is no where near justifying a $700+ entry point.

 

[RCX]

Are Sony's marketing team really this incompetent?

YT compression destroys so much of the benefit they were trying to get across. Surely there's techniques to mitigate some of this, maybe rendering the original in 8k so even when compressed it retains more detail?
Let alone the fact that their big "hands-on reveal" with CNET was then uploaded at 1080/30?!

They could've saved themselves a lot of mockery and criticism by just making a bit more effort.

Big thanks to them for the PSSR moniker though. I giggle like an idiot child everytime someone refers to it as PiSSR

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Ah yes, the usual corporate damage control train is already in full force I see. Gonna be interesting to see how many people are going to be persuaded to buy this thing after they see these spectacular differences in graphical fidelity.

 

[XXL]

I’m not questioning there’s a slight improvement. I’m simply saying the improvement is no where near justifying a $700+ entry point.

I disagree. But I think it should come with a stand. Lol.

The EU prices are too high, but I don't think the NA price is unreasonable.

Its a pretty significant upgrade from PS5 fidelity modes.

 

[hinch7]

Are Sony's marketing team really this incompetent?

YT compression destroys so much of the benefit they were trying to get across. Surely there's techniques to mitigate some of this, maybe rendering the original in 8k so even when compressed it retains more detail?
Let alone the fact that their big "hands-on reveal" with CNET was then uploaded at 1080/30?!

They could've saved themselves a lot of mockery and criticism by just making a bit more effort.

I mean if they really wanted to show the difference they could've shown FF7 Rebirth off. That game has horrible image quality on Performance mode.

Terrible marketing.

 

[KU_]

I disagree. But I think it should come with a stand. Lol.

The EU prices are too high, but I don't think the NA price is unreasonable.

Its a pretty significant upgrade from PS5 fidelity modes.

Fair enough. I understand who it’s marketed towards, and for their target audience, price was probably never going to be a factor anyways. I just couldn’t justify the purchase for myself.

 

[Gaiff]

I mean if they really wanted to show the difference they could've shown FF7 Rebirth off. That game has horrible image quality on Performance mode.

Terrible marketing.

It’s a double-edged sword. You also don’t wanna show off how bad the base version looks lol.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

They really released that 7 min video with Mark Cerny, a blog post and went into hiding huh...

I expected Digital Foundry and other places to have videos ready to be released but...nothing.

They really are trying to sell an 800€ console based on that lil video alone lmao.