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GaaS as a highly successful model (beating profitability of everything else) is 21 years old.
I mean you can say it's ruining the industry 'very slowly' - but that's kind of like coffee as a slow poison theory.
IMO Industry always had a problem with being very self-indulgent in how it treats the market(chasing self-imposed ideas of trends rather than listening for real signals) but I guess that's common in most creative industries. And Indies have been very successful at addressing that gap in past decade - even though they are themselves falling into the same trap too.
Bernardougf
Member
Is the most high demanding/ power hungry useless graphical upgrade we ever had ... no amount of reflexes in puddles or pretty lights will convince me it is worth the trades for perfomance in 90% of the hardware avaible .. specially in console gaming... is trend chasing and graphic whoring at peak stupidityConsumers lapping up shit then wondering why the industry has gone to the dogs.
All the sinners didnt buy Spec Ops The Line then wonder why devs arent willing to make darker storylines.
They skip out on Mirrors Edge and Mirror Edge Catalyst then say EA has become soulless.....well when they gave a fuck you didnt support them, what did you expect?
EA tries again doing something remotely interesting with TitanFall and TitanFall 2......again consumers would rather NOT play these games.......are we really surprised publishers arent willing to take chances?
Weird take considering Ubisoft almost exclusively makes whats called Ubisoft games of infinite markers, their games started a whole new genre........ignore Ubi and the industry is fine.
Saying they are ruining the games industry when they make one type of game thats relatively easy to skip is really reductive.
Shut your whore mouth.
RTGI/DDGI is the shit, and realistically is the only implementation of RT i actually actually care about.
Im fine with screenspace, planar and highres cubemaps........but pheasant lighting........no!
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Guilty_AI
Member
RT has it's purposes, problem it was kind of tacked on on consoles at the last minute and most of its uses have been redundant.
Aguero9320
Member
Not sure gaming has ever been 'better' than it is right now, apart from the length of time it's taking to make new games. I don't love online shooters or souls games (way too many of both) but I accept other people like them and it's not all about me.
Oh, I know... Seven year long console 'generations' - in a tech industry I don't know how people do not see that as truly insane.
Oh, I know... Seven year long console 'generations' - in a tech industry I don't know how people do not see that as truly insane.
Black_Mamba
Member
Definitely DEI. That’s why the good games are coming from Japan, Poland, South Korea and soon China, while others, US based or focused, like Ubisoft, are creatively dead even with bigger budgets.
You can’t have A players in teams dominated by C players, as Steve Jobs once said.
You can’t have A players in teams dominated by C players, as Steve Jobs once said.
JackMcGunns
Member
Felessan
Member
People do have different tastes
Also most SP Rpg funs have munchkin mindset that hurt them a lot in online gaas rpg. They want all and in these games its not supposed that you will have all (even if you have a lot of money, its just stupid waste of them)
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Avoiding warrior tactics, it’s game developers that are ruining the industry. They’re creatively bankrupt and falling back on remasters/remakes, as well as creating budgets that are bloated for no reason. We get indie dev teams making great games that look and play great, with 1% of the staff and budget.
I’d fire every current AAA game directors and producers and start over. It’s time. The game industry is fucking stupid these days.
I’d fire every current AAA game directors and producers and start over. It’s time. The game industry is fucking stupid these days.
Duellist
Member
Here fixed it for youMicrosoft
Jaded gamers
Tribalism
Cancel culture
DEI
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Bernardougf
Member
Exactly... I wont say I dont see the difference and I do ... I just think is useless in real gaming activities outside of staying still and trying to find the beauty on its effects which arent many .... but as far as console games go they are bad optimized right now and aiming this for a weak console box It is just a waist of time and resources that could be utilized for a better perfomance/optimization from the get GO and shorter development times... we have games coming out that 6 months later have the option to turn off this shit and immediately the perfomance boost is enormous...
Anyway thats my two cents.. It isnt a popular opinion on a enthusiast forum thats for sure.. but anyway cheers
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Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Astray
Member
Lack of governmental oversight when it comes to:
- Predatory monetization.
- Anti-consumer policies by platform holders.
- Anti-competitive behaviors by platform holders.
- Workforce treatment.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It's not warrior tactics to just acknowledge reality. Nintendo does a lot of overpriced remakes, but they aren't ruining the industry. MS doesn't really have tons of huge AAA games, and pushes a lot more AA stuff and experimental titles, and a sub model that allows people to try that stuff for little financial risk. Sony is pushing the biggest AAA stuff in the industry.
BobLeeSwagger
Banned
Why people even want to work in the gaming industry these days is beyond me…
Gamers always find something to complain about.
Gamers always find something to complain about.
GHG
Member
JackMcGunns
Member
Further corrections:
Microsoft (according to Duellist)
Jaded gamers
Tribalism
(See above)Cancel culture
DEI
nkarafo
Member
There are a lot of things ruining gaming nowadays but i feel like most of these change or come and go. The whole wokness and censorship thing, for instance, is something that will most likely correct itself or change to something else in a few years.
The one thing, however, that will change games forever for the worst and it's their inevitable future is Publishers trying to have control over consumer's bought games. They already do this with online DRM, subscriptions and GaaS. Their vision will be complete when Streaming becomes the norm and only way to play games. This is when games will become one time consumables that nobody will own or be able to play ever again when their shelf life ends. And not even piracy will be able to help preserving them this time because there will be no local files to tinker with.
The one thing, however, that will change games forever for the worst and it's their inevitable future is Publishers trying to have control over consumer's bought games. They already do this with online DRM, subscriptions and GaaS. Their vision will be complete when Streaming becomes the norm and only way to play games. This is when games will become one time consumables that nobody will own or be able to play ever again when their shelf life ends. And not even piracy will be able to help preserving them this time because there will be no local files to tinker with.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
For the record I don't think anyone is ruining gaming. I have a mountain of stuff to play.
All I see on here though is jaded people complaining about the exact same trends that Sony pushes more aggressively than anyone. AAA, GAAS, DEI, lack of communication, the death of fun showcases and hype trailers. Literally everyone else is doing just fine playing on PC, Xbox or Switch and don't complain a quarter as much. It's a bunch of jaded people that seem locked to PS, can't hardly see anything but AAA sequels, then complain about them after buying them over and over. It's literally their own fault. There's a nearly infinite amount of great games to play.
My point in this thread is that the only people that think anything is ruined seem to be mostly on PS. Most everyone else is fairly excited about the future, and the present.
GHG
Member
That's not what's being said though and you know it.
Edit: right on cue, see above. Basically in his opinion all the negative stuff is from Sony while everyone else are doing great things. If you want to agree with that then...
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Guilty_AI
Member
No, thats the thing. RT could improve development times. It essentially does most of the lighting work for the developer, which happens to be a very time consuming aspect of game dev. Also, it can be used in highly dynamic enviroments, whereas "normal" lighting tech can be cumbersome to implement in such a scenario, if not impossible without looking ugly.
Thing is, currently they just add RT on top of all the normal lighting as an option to turn on/off. Also, many of the scenarios where it is currently being used (such as a level-based game with mostly static light sources and props), it truly cannot serve much purpose.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
Most of the issues (even DEI nonsense, etc) come down to the problem of scale.
When games require massive numbers of employees to create, it just turns into an HR-fueled pipeline of 9-5 jobs by talentless idiots, nanny middle managers who have nothing of value to contribute to the world or the medium so they hone in on trying to raise diversity or "representation," and cynical leads & company heads who care for nothing but pandering to the latest trends in pursuit of $$$.
The only way games can be great is when they are passion projects of small groups of like-minded guys, as the classics were. A small group making exactly what they want to make, and answering to no one regarding the themes or character designs or anything else in their vision. Once you invite a lot of middle managers, 9-5 types, female HR nannies, and all the rest into the equation... it's already dead, none of it can produce anything of worth.
When games require massive numbers of employees to create, it just turns into an HR-fueled pipeline of 9-5 jobs by talentless idiots, nanny middle managers who have nothing of value to contribute to the world or the medium so they hone in on trying to raise diversity or "representation," and cynical leads & company heads who care for nothing but pandering to the latest trends in pursuit of $$$.
The only way games can be great is when they are passion projects of small groups of like-minded guys, as the classics were. A small group making exactly what they want to make, and answering to no one regarding the themes or character designs or anything else in their vision. Once you invite a lot of middle managers, 9-5 types, female HR nannies, and all the rest into the equation... it's already dead, none of it can produce anything of worth.
GHG
Member
I don't think it's a problem of scale, it's the misguided belief that scale will solve a lot of the issues and enable them to make more money when in reality, typically less is more when it comes to software development.
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PeteBull
Member
Its not that simple- say for every 1k players who are normal/avg u got 1 whale(rich kid or some other mofo who can spend say 10k usd/month for gaming), this guy will buy all the premium stuff/skins/p2w shit and everything else coz he can, 999 avg/normal players can only stop playing but thats it, they cant "not buy" premium coz they didnt buy it in the first place anyways.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
The problem with the gaming industry…is that it’s full of Blue Haireds
Felessan
Member
To be precise - its almost 40 years for gaas (MUDs) and 22 years for f2p gaas
Its oversimplifying of things
There are no lack of novelty ideas, but there is no recipe for success, being novelty and original does not guarantee anything. As in any risky business - for any runaway success tens will fail
To make AAA game you’ll need 50-10-200 mil USD and no sane investor will give you that much money when chances are 5% of supersuccess and 50% of failure, they are not casino players. And devs themselves (mobile aside) just dont have that much money to self fund their dream project. So AAA games are made so they will have a reasonably low chance of failure even though it impede their runaway success chances. And all those “all-or-nothing” chances left to smaller budget games where cost of failure will not have a chance to sunk company completely (or its not that much of a deal as company is small). And AAA only pickup idea when they are already proven, thus have stability and predictability of success
hinch7
Member
Microsoft and Bethesda for Horse Armor. We used to have full games on release, now are broken, unfinished or sold off separately as ongoing updates, DLC or MTX's.
These days the asinine attempt to create the next Fortnite, CoD, Apex etc and DEI initiatives. A lot of which wastes so much money, time and resources and end up with the closures of many studios. Some of which were highly regarded.
These days the asinine attempt to create the next Fortnite, CoD, Apex etc and DEI initiatives. A lot of which wastes so much money, time and resources and end up with the closures of many studios. Some of which were highly regarded.
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Duellist
Member
Exactly, wasn’t that the purpose of the thread? My original post was stating my opinion. You quoted it obviously taking offence. You got a problem?Further corrections:
Microsoft (according to Duellist)
Jaded gamers
Tribalism
Cancel culture
DEI
near
Gold Member
I agree to an extent. Sony are one of the if not the biggest publisher of single player games, and they've set the precedent when it comes to production quality as far as budgets go to an unsustainable level. I don't think they're ruining gaming either, but acting like they don't dictate or create market trends is a little silly.
I don't think other studios are exempt from criticism but I think Sony's criteria for certain games to fit a specific profile has had long term consequences not only for themselves but the industry as a whole. Can't level a case against Nintendo or Microsoft the same way because they're not spending $300 million odd on a single game consistently.That's not what's being said though and you know it.
Edit: right on cue, see above. Basically in his opinion all the negative stuff is from Sony while everyone else are doing great things. If you want to agree with that then...
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Hudo
Member
Even the Dreamcasters are happy.
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
People paying months in advance for digital pre-orders.
Ship it even if its fucked cos we gotta put something out.
Ship it even if its fucked cos we gotta put something out.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Apple is at the root of all this..It all came from how they introduced and developed the App Store. Pretty much everything else came into being very naturally as a result.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It's old people. Making games the same way they were made 20 plus years ago is hurting innovation and growth. Single player games built around infinite respawns is the dumbest game design known to man and it's something old people keep pushing because it's all they've ever known. Young people are saving the industry.
Variahunter
Member
For a long time and still ruining it ? Microsoft.
Recently ? Sony too.
Nintendo overpricing remakes (sometimes really badly : Mario and Zelda, sometimes doing it correctly: Metroid Prime remastered) and a lot of cheap games for 60€ (Princess Peach, Mario vs DK… the list goes on)
Other griddy publishers : EA, Activision, Epic, Embracer… the list goes on too.
Recently ? Sony too.
Nintendo overpricing remakes (sometimes really badly : Mario and Zelda, sometimes doing it correctly: Metroid Prime remastered) and a lot of cheap games for 60€ (Princess Peach, Mario vs DK… the list goes on)
Other griddy publishers : EA, Activision, Epic, Embracer… the list goes on too.
Who are the most offensive /offended people in this industry?
Typically the most offended people in this industry are writers /artists, usually the ones who take all the crap over their shoulders and make things right.
The most offensive people usually aren't children cause no one take them seriously, idk, fanboys and fangirls fit in the same category, no one listen to what they say, idk, maybe the people who are responsible for turning the work of art into product, even though some of them admit the concept of productisim I just can't process what they say cause that's against what I know about this hobby.
Typically the most offended people in this industry are writers /artists, usually the ones who take all the crap over their shoulders and make things right.
The most offensive people usually aren't children cause no one take them seriously, idk, fanboys and fangirls fit in the same category, no one listen to what they say, idk, maybe the people who are responsible for turning the work of art into product, even though some of them admit the concept of productisim I just can't process what they say cause that's against what I know about this hobby.
Sinfulgore
Member
The disconnect between gamers, devs, and the games media. In the past, these three groups were one and the same but now these three groups couldn't be more different. IGN's beta impressions of Concord are a perfect example of how out of touch the modern gaming press is. Also, this trend of blocking comments on articles is another great example of this. Imagine being so afraid of what your audience has to say that you have to disable comments on articles, insane. This is a problem in most entertainment industries these days though where the creatives and the press actively fight against the customer.
Sushi_Combo
Member
Gamers are ruining the industry.
Phase
Member
You can certainly point to DEI and how anti-meritocracy is ruining things, detrimentally affecting quality of games. But another large issue is innovation has ground to a halt everywhere, not just in gaming. You've got some examples, like AI, but look around. Innovation in almost every sector of our economy has practically stopped. I think that's what we're all feeling.
Nothing is really new. It's all been done before. Some things will come along to rock the boat, but we've just got to ride it out for now.
Nothing is really new. It's all been done before. Some things will come along to rock the boat, but we've just got to ride it out for now.
Phase
Member
Ugly on the inside and the outside.What the deuce!
DirtyBast8rd
Member
Modern gamers that don't say no to crap being produced.
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