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[SteelCurtain 59]

Sony has put some in Ps+ day one. What’s the difference?

You answered your own question

 

[Craig of War]

If it's a first party game then sales won't be that big of a factor, they're supplanting the revenue via the recurring subscription costs anyway, in place of a big launch day chunk.

Third parties cut a pretty hefty check to have their games go on a service day 1, and still have retail sales on multiple platforms ongoing.

TL;DR there is absolutely no rational reason to believe a game launching on a subscription service day 1 devalues it in any way. It's also selling at retail at the same time. It's a strawman argument.

 

[ZehDon]

Jim's actually correct, but not for the reasons most people think.

If you want to enter the console space, you need to loss lead to build the platform first. This is well known, due to the way economies of scale work. You lose money of the hardware, but one unit of hardware sold equates to many more units of software sold, and that's where the money is. Microsoft was prepared to take billions in losses for the first generation of Xbox in order to establish the brand. There are few companies on Earth who can do that, which is why the console market is as limited as it is.

Looking to the Game Pass space, if you want to enter, you need to loss lead there as well. However, the barrier is significantly larger because the critical mass point is so much higher. You don't ship a console and get third parties making it popular. You need to produce enough content to fuel it, and get the service up to, potentially, 40 or 50 million subscribers before it starts becoming profitable. Until you get there, you need a traditional model to support it, and billions in reserves to invest in content production. That's a monumental undertaking that dwarfs a console launch. Microsoft invested USD$77b in making Game Pass happen, and it's still working on actually making it happen.

Basically, there are two other companies - neither of which are Sony - that have the kind of bank balance necessary to enter the Game Pass space. If Sony tried with its current studio count and setup, it would need its studios pumping out a game every two years, instead of their "its done when its done" approach that's made them kings of the industry. And the quality would absolutely dive. Microsoft's investments allow it to pump out the necessary number of high quality titles with its massive studio count and Game Pass deals, like Guardians of the Galaxy - but they can only do it because they could break open one of the largest bank accounts on Earth.

 

[Hezekiah]

Sony has put some in Ps+ day one. What’s the difference?

Destruction All-Stars?

 

[Shmunter]

I foresee this also being one of those things in the near future.

Not that there is any correlation between a games budget and it being available on day 1 on a subscription service anyway.

Anyone who says that has yet to provide any notable proof or evidence to support it.

For arguments sakes If a Sony game sells 10m units, putting it into Sonypass would you get an additional 10m subscribers? What about 10 Sony games in one year, 100m unit sales - Sonypass goes up by 100M subscribers that year?

Looking at the current Gamepass, subscriptions are lower than what a quality game can sell in a year.

The evidence is in front of us if one cares to look.

 

[kingfey]

The fact they are merging it with PS+ tells you PSNow was a failed project.

BTW PSNow barely get games there.

If you really are into PlayStation games or even 3rd-parties releases you won’t don’t it on PS Now.

Sorry, but PSnow had alot of great games. I have been subscribed to that service for 2 years.
Both parties looks at gamepass and psnow bad games and judge them.

One more thing, Psnow isnt a failure. The problem is from Sony, who are shit at marketing. They destroyed psnow, the way they destroyed Vita. They suck at marketing.

 

[kingfey]

For arguments sakes If a Sony game sells 10m units, putting it into Sonypass would you get an additional 10m subscribers? What about 10 Sony games in one year, 100m unit sales - Sonypass goes up by 100M subscribers that year?

Looking at the current Gamepass, subscriptions are lower than what a quality game can sell in a year.

The evidence is in front of us if one cares to look.

If those total games can manage to sell 50m copies at the price of $60.

That is what you get from gamepass at 25m per year.

 

[adamsapple]

For arguments sakes If a Sony game sells 10m units, putting it into Sonypass would you get an additional 10m subscribers? What about 10 Sony games in one year, 100m unit sales - Sonypass goes up by 100M subscribers that year?

Looking at the current Gamepass, subscriptions are lower than what a quality game can sell in a year.

The evidence is in front of us if one cares to look.

Every game won't necessarily net you an exponential amount of new subscribers, but then again it's not like any game is tied to a service either, games on either Sony pass or Xbox pass will still have the option to sell at retail. Neither avenue is permanently closed to them.

If Sony Pass gets 20m paying subscribers on board let's say, those subscribers are still continuing to pay the months or years it can take between marquee first party games. That's not just one $60 every two years, that's a continuous stream of $10 to $18 every month between releases. Not to mention the MTX content associated with the game, we've seen more than 1 big analyst reports in the last couple of days that show how folks on subscription services can tend to pay more frequently for additional content. I'm sure Sony sees that and wants a piece of the action too.

i-e I don't think there'll be any issue of a monetary shortfall.

 

[kingfey]

1. It ties up to what I am saying, they want to get people into the service of course they will put their good games. Sony does not need it. We need more time to really see if the quality and price keeps as it is. You think MS will keep things as it is once their service gets tons of subs?

What your idea of quality games?
You keep bringing that nonstop. Doesnt MS make quality games too?

2. No they had plenty of chances to build, maintain studios and new IPs they choose not. Their reputation is all their fault.

No one denies that. Its why they are fixing that now.

3. MS even have more diehard fans, can you imagine Sony or Nintendo surviving this long not doing anything but promises to their fans?

What promises? People know games take too long to make. That is nothing, compared to spending alot of money, just to support a company.

There is different between waiting for a game, and Paying $60 for a remastered game, that is barely a remaster.

4. I dunno if you remember but 2 years ago gamepass was already 2 years old when the marketing gone full in with inflated buzz.

Are you talking about the day1 games marketing they did?

5. And that is ok. Some people like to own games, some wait for discounts etc. It is the narrative and perception that the game is not worth it if is 16 dollars or "free" on gamepass that will backfire on us! All is good now, like some years ago Neflix was super amazing and now it is meh.

Have you seen the state of the gaming industry right now?
How is it ok to pay $70 for broken ass game, when the devs rely on day1 patches to fix the goddamn game.

People are just tired of the narratives that games are great, if you pay the price. end of 2020- 2022 games have been shit so far, when they launched due to bugs. That is the concern you need to make first.

 

[ethomaz]

Sorry, but PSnow had alot of great games. I have been subscribed to that service for 2 years.
Both parties looks at gamepass and psnow bad games and judge them.

One more thing, Psnow isnt a failure. The problem is from Sony, who are shit at marketing. They destroyed psnow, the way they destroyed Vita. They suck at marketing.

I look at the list of games of PS Now and I realize why it is shit.
99% of games are old.

If you think PS Now is a good service then not have nothing to talk about because well you are really out of touch.

 

[ethomaz]

If those total games can manage to sell 50m copies at the price of $60.

That is what you get from gamepass at 25m per year.

No you don't get that.
The revenue in Gamepass is shared with all others 3rd-party games that is there.

You have a weird ideia that all revenue goes to the subscription owner... part of it is shared with all the games are there... that is the main way how publishers or developers accept to put games there... the other way is paying upfront (that decrease again the revenue).

 

[Pedro Motta]

If those total games can manage to sell 50m copies at the price of $60.

That is what you get from gamepass at 25m per year.

 

[Nautilus]

I didnt know red dead redemption 2, god of war, spiderman, the last of us 2 were shovel wares.

Did you even read what I said. I said half were shovelware, and the other half was filled with indies, plus the occasional big game.

From the small list you gave, only Red Dead is third party and that probably costed money for Sony to put there. The rest are all first party games, games that Sony can put in there with no additional cost.

And there is no denying that not only those said big games come to the service years after they were released, but also for every Spiderman game on Now, there is 2 EA games, 2 MS games, and a myriad of Capcom games included in the service every year.

Look, I never owned a MS console, and wont for the time being. But Its simply undeniable that Gamepass offers far more value than Now or NSO does right now. Maybe that will change in the future, but for now thats the reality of it.

 

[kingfey]

Did you even read what I said. I said half were shovelware, and the other half was filled with indies, plus the occasional big game.

From the small list you gave, only Red Dead is third party and that probably costed money for Sony to put there. The rest are all first party games, games that Sony can put in there with no additional cost.

And there is no denying that not only those said big games come to the service years after they were released, but also for every Spiderman game on Now, there is 2 EA games, 2 MS games, and a myriad of Capcom games included in the service every year.

Look, I never owned a MS console, and wont for the time being. But Its simply undeniable that Gamepass offers far more value than Now or NSO does right now. Maybe that will change in the future, but for now thats the reality of it.

Should have read your comment more.
Psnow vault offers more games. though not as day1 as gamepass, but the quality is there. For a small service, It can get alot of good games for cheap. Even though, some of these games are old (According to the new narratives people are running around).

It shows subscription service can work. Imagine, what Psnow would have gotten by now, If it had 20m users? The lack of marketing killed that service.

 

[kingfey]

No you don't get that.
The revenue in Gamepass is shared with all others 3rd-party games that is there.

You have a weird ideia that all revenue goes to the subscription owner... part of it is shared with all the games are there... that is the main way how publishers or developers accept to put games there... the other way is paying upfront (that decrease again the revenue).

Have you read what I said?
If Xbox revenue from 3rd party sales covers gamepass 3rd games, Gamepass can generate those profits for 1st party only.
Meaning, 3rd party cuts will subsidize the service, while the entire revenue of gamepass will go to 1st party funding.

 

[kingfey]

I look at the list of games of PS Now and I realize why it is shit.
99% of games are old.

If you think PS Now is a good service then not have nothing to talk about because well you are really out of touch.

We must have different opinion about good games then.
At least I dont judge metacritic for the games.

 

[Nautilus]

Should have read your comment more.
Psnow vault offers more games. though not as day1 as gamepass, but the quality is there. For a small service, It can get alot of good games for cheap. Even though, some of these games are old (According to the new narratives people are running around).

It shows subscription service can work. Imagine, what Psnow would have gotten by now, If it had 20m users? The lack of marketing killed that service.

Eh, the marketing was indeed faulty, which if I'm not mistaken has focused on the streaming part, which everyone hates.

But honestly?Its not only that. For every new(ish) game that Now gets, Gamepass gets 10 brand new games, from which 2 or 3 are high budget titles. Its... hard to compete with that.

There is nothing wrong with what Sony did with Now, and I feel like its successful enough for the amount of money that Sony seemingly spends with it. But as it stands, with the new tiers and all, it seems that its main objective is to simplify and streamline the subscription and messaging, fixing the marketing problem as you have said. But this will only work for existing playerbase, especially the ones already subscribed to Plus.

Like I said, Gamepass is simply superior right now, and I have a hard time seeing this new strategy(as it is) bringing in new users.

 

[ethomaz]

Have you read what I said?
If Xbox revenue from 3rd party sales covers gamepass 3rd games, Gamepass can generate those profits for 1st party only.
Meaning, 3rd party cuts will subsidize the service, while the entire revenue of gamepass will go to 1st party funding.

There is no revenue from 3rd-party or 1st-party… it is just revenue and needs to be split between publishers/developers that have games there.

MS probably use a metric of play time to reach the split so the games most played receive more than the lesser played.

 

[ethomaz]

We must have different opinion about good games then.
At least I dont judge metacritic for the games.

That is unrelated.

PSNow has good and bad games but 99% are old game that I already played or have no interest.

It is a bad service and that is why it was failure.

Your own exemples shows the service doesn’t work… GoW is a game that took years to enter in PSNow. I rather play GoW at launch and not even know what PSNow is.

Plus these old big games won’t suffer with the drop of quality due lower revenue… after all it already planned to sell millions at full price to cover everything.

 

[C2brixx]

You know who has Playstation games day one on a subscription service? Gamefly. Yes you can play HFW with a free 30 day trail from Gamefly.

Video Games: Rent/Buy PS5, PS4, Xbox Series X, Nintendo Switch, 4kUHD, Blu-ray & MORE! Plus Consoles, Collectibles & Arcades Games | GameFly

GameFly, the #1 video game rental service. Rent and buy PS5, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Xbox Series X, Xbox One, 4k UHD, Blu-ray and more. Plus Consoles, Controllers, Accessories, Collectibles and Arcades.

www.gamefly.com

 

[Swift_Star]

im pointing out the obvious: this thing is orders of magnitude worst than gamepass.
I dont need to buy or have some kind of allegiance to a product or brand to give my opinion about it btw.

What a sad hyperbole take. GP has mostly shovelware and cheap indies and their first party lacks any real good games apart from Forza. See? I know how to be hyperbolic too.
The only difference this service has from GP is day one first party but, unlike MS’s games, Sony games sell and don’t need to rely on a subscription service. Joke is on you.

 

[RevGaming]

why do you give a fuck about the profits of a corporation? lol

Look at how much next gen Horizon looks next to Halo. Not just graphics but content, voice acting etc.

If we see it again with Starfield vs God of War...

know you know why we "cared".

The competition still has a better offering, I don't give a fuck if they're bleeding money. The only reaction this announcement got from me is laughter.

 

[Swift_Star]

If those total games can manage to sell 50m copies at the price of $60.

That is what you get from gamepass at 25m per year.

I can’t even…

 

[kingfey]

I can’t even…

Point me at 5 games, which sells 10m in the same year.

 

[MScarpa]

Like, we still see people talking about Horzion and GT7, but if you look in the halo thread, it's a sad situation. As for Forza, I only see people bring it up to show off its score. Real interesting.

GT7 Ya, we know why people are still talking about that trainwreck. I'm not a Forza or GT fan (GT2 I was) but talk about nickel and diming their customer base. If the future of Sony's games are like GT7, that scares me.

 

[Swift_Star]

Sorry, but PSnow had alot of great games. I have been subscribed to that service for 2 years.
Both parties looks at gamepass and psnow bad games and judge them.

One more thing, Psnow isnt a failure. The problem is from Sony, who are shit at marketing. They destroyed psnow, the way they destroyed Vita. They suck at marketing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAH sorry, saying PlayStation suck at marketing while supporting MS. I’m used to you Spouting nonsense but this is the last straw. that’s it, I’m out.

 

[Kumomeme]

it is not hard to understand. no quality stuff is cheap.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Sony has put some in Ps+ day one. What’s the difference?

Sony put a full priced AAA game in PS+ the day of release?

 

[Lognor]

Because you get less money.
You don't invest the same amount to get less revenue at end.

It is that simple.
You could not understand but it is business 101.

You haven't proved you get less money. Sounds like you need to go back to business 101

 

[MScarpa]

Outside of recent acquisitions, Microsoft really didn't have the development studios to compete with Sony (still don't to be frank).

You look at the investments and growth of 343 or PlayGround/Turn10 and that is basically all Microsoft had.

Look at Sony

Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica, Polyphony Digital, Guerrilla Games.

There isn't a studio there that Sony would trade for Microsoft's Studios.

Now then, Microsoft will do well with iD and Infinity Ward but Infinity Ward has been in decline. So you look at Bethesda and Blizzard and it helps move the needle.

Sony meanwhile has been looking at other ways to improve its studios. Adding support studios, PC port studios, and some specific investments in partnerships. As well as the obvious Bungie news. Bluepoint, Housemarque, Haven, Firesprite.... we'll see how these buys play out for them.

Just a heads up the Zenimax deal had some really great studios in it. Microsoft will be just fine. They aren't hurting. In fact, I heard they had a monopoly. Remember that?

 

[ethomaz]

You haven't proved you get less money. Sounds like you need to go back to business 101

You are another of these “100% revenue”?

 

[Lognor]

You are another of these “100% revenue”?

Prove that along with proving they would get less money.

 

[MHubert]

Just an attempt to justify not doing it. The extra revenue that they will be making from their new service will already help alleviate the running costs if their studios etc. Subscribers will help pay for the games to be made, and then gladly pay full price because Jim convinced them that it is best for them.

Then they all run onto forums and social media to defend it, and shout down those of little faith lol. Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses

This is a perfect example of what some of you dont get. The studios owned by Sony (or Ms I suppose) doesnt run solely on money coming from Sony. They are still businesses in their own right that has to make ends meet internally and invest in the future according to their visions with the money they make from their games, so when naughty dog sells 20+ million copies of whatever its not only good for them because it satisfies sony, but because they can expand and develop as a studio with mean dough.

The thing about being part of a subscription based business model is that, as a game studio, you are basically being tasked with creating the next mega blockbuster just to make ends meet.

 

[MScarpa]

You are another of these “100% revenue”?

Hey, wait a second. Aren't you the guy that was saying that it was good GT7 charged so much for credits, and that it was more difficult to earn credits? I'm going go check but im pretty sure it was you. BRB

 

[Swift_Star]

Sony put a full priced AAA game in PS+ the day of release?

Never done and probably never will.

 

[93xfan]

You answered your own question

So we’re in agreement that some smaller Sony games can be Day one?

Because I was getting pushback for the suggestion.

 

[Lognor]

So we’re in agreement that some smaller Sony games can be Day one?

Because I was getting pushback for the suggestion.

Sure. Probably online and gaas type of games

 

[ethomaz]

Hey, wait a second. Aren't you the guy that was saying that it was good GT7 charged so much for credits, and that it was more difficult to earn credits? I'm going go check but im pretty sure it was you. BRB

I said that MTX is bad in any game (maybe F2P games are acceptable) but if GT7 has MTX it should be expensive to avoid most of the users to take that route… so only whales will make use of it… less people using MTX I think it is better overall to everybody.

I hold to my words.

Now you are another one of the “100% revenue goes to MS”?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Just a heads up the Zenimax deal had some really great studios in it. Microsoft will be just fine. They aren't hurting. In fact, I heard they had a monopoly. Remember that?

I said outside of the recent moves. I specifically mention that this helps them... jesus...

 

[SportsFan581]

With the amount of back-pedal room he jumps through hoops to give himself here, I figure they already have a ball-park date set for when they will start the day one subscription releases. LOL

Probably have to get day and date on PC going first.

 

[lh032]

I'm not saying it'll happen for sure but these subscriptions have to gain enough subscribers 1st before we can fully judge them. Some say Netflix's quality has gone down over the years with just a few golden nuggets here and there

Lagnor is not really a Playstation fan, you are not going to convince him.
This is the same person that request me to show "proof" that PS5 is still in high demand.

 

[MScarpa]

I said that MTX is bad in any game (maybe F2P games are acceptable) but if GT7 has MTX it should be expensive to avoid most of the users to take that route… so only whales will make use of it… less people using MTX I think it is better overall to everybody.

I hold to my words.

Now you are another one of the “100% revenue goes to MS”?

I don't care about revenue for ANYONE. I care about games. Something this place should be about. Not bickering and defending your special box. Its pathetic. Meanwhile people like yourself think having MTX in GT7 is a good thing. It's pretty insane. But hey, keep up the good fight. Maybe you'll get put on the payroll soon.

 

[MScarpa]

I said outside of the recent moves. I specifically mention that this helps them... jesus...

"Still don't to be frank"

 

[DavidGzz]

And they can totally get by for sure for the time being. They will change their tune when/if Game Pass gets so popular that can no longer rest on their laurels.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't care about revenue for ANYONE. I care about games. Something this place should be about. Not bickering and defending your special box. Its pathetic. Meanwhile people like yourself think having MTX in GT7 is a good thing. It's pretty insane. But hey, keep up the good fight. Maybe you'll get put on the payroll soon.

Good thing? Are you crazy? Seems like you made a pathetic assumption lol

 

[MScarpa]

Good thing? Are you crazy? Seems like you made a pathetic assumption lol

Just curious, do you own an Xbox? Are you subscribed to Gamepass?

 

[ethomaz]

Just curious, do you own an Xbox? Are you subscribed to Gamepass?

Nope.

Just curious, what that has with Sony or GT7?

 

[MScarpa]

Nope.

Just curious, what that has with Sony or GT7?

I knew you didn't, but at least your honest with your bias. You should try and enjoy the games, not try to justify your purchase. You'd be surprised what's out there when you just look to have fun and enjoy the games and not the war.

 

[ethomaz]

I knew you didn't, but at least your honest with your bias. You should try and enjoy the games, not try to justify your purchase. You'd be surprised what's out there when you just look to have fun and enjoy the games and not the war.

What are you talking about from nowhere? Did you smoke something?

Thanks I have fun and enjoy my games.

 

[kingfey]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAH sorry, saying PlayStation suck at marketing while supporting MS. I’m used to you Spouting nonsense but this is the last straw. that’s it, I’m out.

No wonder PS vita was successful due to the marketing.

This wont change the fact, that Sony is very terrible in marketing both products.

And no, I do not support MS. I hate them.