Kojima says too many games look the same, won't be playing the MGS remake

Kupfer said:
You can like or dislike the games he makes, but you can't deny that this guy is unique, has a vision, and sticks to it.
One of the last remaining true OGs out there.
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Agreed.

Though after playing Death Stranding 2...he needs to take another look at how stories in games end up being compelling.
 
I know is just his persona type and also the whole political problem with Konami, but still feels a little bit bad for the development team, imagine some of them are like hardcore fans of MGS and Kojima and really wanted to honor him or something, and then hearing that he won't play it, might feel super sad for them.
 
March Climber said:
…Why would the secret studio be a CoD or BF studio?

Those guys don't need his input. You got offended on their behalf for no reason lol.
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"People who are making military games, they probably don't know how to dismantle a gun or shoot a gun," he explained. "So that's kind of sad."

He is clearly talking about all military game developers. He didnt say, this one studio left me unimpressed. Also who is he out of all the people out there to talk about military, when im sure nobody in his studioes ever could do the same either lol.
 
KimDongHwan said:
I know is just his persona type and also the whole political problem with Konami, but still feels a little bit bad for the development team, imagine some of them are like hardcore fans of MGS and Kojima and really wanted to honor him or something, and then hearing that he won't play it, might feel super sad for them.
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He dgaf, they're not worth the shit on his shoes.
He's an auteur, don't you know?
 
That was a savage set of responses. Respect went up even more.

"I know how to dismantle a gun and how to kill people in many ways."

Based.

impress-based.gif
 
naguanatak said:
And my point is that it isn't objectively the worst dialogue and neither are they objectively the most boring nonsensical cutscenes.
Would I want Kojima to write better (dialogue and stories in general) or collaborate with something who has a talent for this stuff that could complement his style and vision? Of course. But that would mean his games would be even better, selling more, getting more recognition... What would happen to the people calling him a pretentious fart sniffer? We might have a voidout on our hands then 😅
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Give me an example of worse dialogue.
 
AeonGaidenRaiden said:
"People who are making military games, they probably don't know how to dismantle a gun or shoot a gun," he explained. "So that's kind of sad."

He is clearly talking about all military game developers. He didnt say, this one studio left me unimpressed. Also who is he out of all the people out there to talk about military, when im sure nobody in his studioes ever could do the same either lol.
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Ah, I see the issue here. Two things:

1) The sentence before the one you quoted (that you ignored) is directly related to the next part (that you quoted). Whatever secret game he had a look at made him feel that way.

Did he slip up and say 'all'? Yes. Do people here do the same and say the 'all' take after having a negative experience with something(especially soulslikes)? Yes.

2) There is a chance you are unaware of the other military games out there that have been releasing lately, so you automatically assigned his words to the two I.P. with a multitude of accolades that have spanned for decades, due to not knowing about the others.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
Give me an example of worse dialogue.
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Dragons Dogma 2
God of War Ragnarök
Dragon Age Veilguard (although I didn't play this myself, just saw some videos)

And that is my opinion of course. None of them are the worst in any way shape or form. Neither are Kojimas games. You might not like the on the nose style and call it - as a lot of people do - pretentious or whatever.
It comes across as if a lot of people just hate him, his style/persona, his games and their writing... People calling Death Stranding a boring walking simulator says more about the people who call it that than the game itself.
And that is true for a lot of games. I mean I constantly read on here that people have podcasts or TV on in the background when they play games. Might be the tik tok generation I simply don't get, but no wonder people can't come to grips with Kojimas style which is far more out there than the comfort zone of the mainstream audience.
Hate on if you like it... I find it hilarious... I imagine going into some forum and shit on Christiano Ronaldo, Queen, Rolling Stones, Spielberg...all of which I absolutely don't like or give a fuck about. Sure, I can see the quality in what they do, especially Queen...but it's just not for me. But going into threads about them to shit on them and their style... Yeah, that's just retarted
 
I want Kojima to make a Sekiro - Gran Turismo crossover. You play as the Wolf again, but you drive around the open world in a 959 and have to engage in a sketchy racing league at a night to make money for shurikens.

Full on GT handling model while driving, but the minute you get out of the car is plays just like Sekiro. And it's a canonical sequel.
 
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simpatico said:
I want Kojima to make a Sekiro - Gran Turismo crossover. You play as the Wolf again, but you drive around the open world in a 959 and have to engage in a sketchy racing league at a night to make money for shurikens.

Full on GT handling model while driving, but the minute you get out of the car is plays just like Sekiro. And it's a canonical sequel.
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Kombucha Are You Sure GIF
 
Not playing Delta either but I am happy it will bring in more fans to the series. There's a bunch of first-time playthroughs of the MGS series online, and its often a rough ride for a lot of people starting with MGS1. MGS3 is a much more casual-friendly game and will be a great place for beginners :messenger_horns:
 
artsi said:
Dude invented loading screens in a lifeboat sized spaceship in Death Stranding 2 when something like Mass Effect had free movement almost 20 years ago.
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What loading screens?
Also Mass Effect had very painful loading screens per small floor on that ship
 
Not wrong. All the publishers chase the trends:

All want the GAAS -'Fortnite' -lightning in a bottle. They want to print cash
Souls-like games
Hero shooters
Endless sequels
Remakes of older games
Easy-money remasters of older games
Even easier-money ports of older games

Zero creativity
 
naguanatak said:
Dragons Dogma 2
God of War Ragnarök
Dragon Age Veilguard (although I didn't play this myself, just saw some videos)

And that is my opinion of course. None of them are the worst in any way shape or form. Neither are Kojimas games. You might not like the on the nose style and call it - as a lot of people do - pretentious or whatever.
It comes across as if a lot of people just hate him, his style/persona, his games and their writing... People calling Death Stranding a boring walking simulator says more about the people who call it that than the game itself.
And that is true for a lot of games. I mean I constantly read on here that people have podcasts or TV on in the background when they play games. Might be the tik tok generation I simply don't get, but no wonder people can't come to grips with Kojimas style which is far more out there than the comfort zone of the mainstream audience.
Hate on if you like it... I find it hilarious... I imagine going into some forum and shit on Christiano Ronaldo, Queen, Rolling Stones, Spielberg...all of which I absolutely don't like or give a fuck about. Sure, I can see the quality in what they do, especially Queen...but it's just not for me. But going into threads about them to shit on them and their style... Yeah, that's just retarted
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What is "on the nose style"?
People dislike him because he has all these press cheerleaders describing him as some sophisticated highbrow genius when the stories and dialogue in his games would shame a teenager.
When I play games I'm only playing games,I'm middle-aged, not an ADHD TikTok doomscrolling youngster, despite this I can't be arsed with often mediocre gameplay with absurd amounts of terribly written cutscenes, you're doing the same thing as the press, acting as if there is something sophisticated or highbrow that is demanding of the audience intellectually, it's very far from the case.

I'll also remind you that this thread is discussing an interview with him where alongside a fair comment on modern games, he made a dick of himself with his "I've learned so many ways to kill people" crap like Gareth from the Office.
 
Get rid of all the Soulslop and bring back the proper stealth games and immersive sims.

Splinter Cell
Thief
Tenchu
Deus Ex

We could do so much with the genre now with all the advancements in lighting.
 
FoxMcChief said:
So do most weirdos. Dude is so in love with himself and his own name. I don't think I've ever seen a director of any kind interject themselves into every single one of their projects. Quinton Tarantino might be the closest, but even he isn't in love with himself like Kojima is.
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IDK, he's teasing us the game by telling us he won't like it, at the same time it's double entendre by indirectly saying he doesn't like playing his own creation, he's not even a gamer to begin with.
 
He's right. Keighley's recent shows have been soul crushing.

I dont agree that indie games are any better. Literally 99% of them are shovelware just like the souls ripoffs from china and gaas trash from the west.
 
Ahh yes, indies with their billion roguelikes, Metroidvanias, PS1 horror, survival crafting, and SNES Era JRPGs. So unique. I would rather the safe AAA over a hyped-up indie game that puts me to sleep any day. Both Indies AND AAA games seem to all blend in with each other at these showcases. I agree with Kojima about how they all look and play the same. The industry seems more interested in jumping on trends than creativity right now. When you do have something different, people whine anyways and want it to be traditional.
 
Agree with him completely.

And why are there so many roguelite games still coming? Most overhyped garbage game design ever.....i cant stand it. Indies in general have mostly had that same ugly retro art style too. Just because you're an Indie title, it doesnt mean you need to make your game look like shit.
 
Hes fucking right. Good for him. If I made a landmark game in the past, I wouldn't want to see how others see their iteration of my original vision. Sure, it can be looked as as an honor by some, but I wouldn't. That time has long gone. And life is too fucking short to play such stuff when you're in your 60's. He's too busy creating, whether a hit or miss. Let him stay in the kitchen and experiment.
 
Enjoyed the hell out of DS1 despite the flaws, but he's a bit of a hypocrite seeing as DS2 looks the same as the 1st.
The same, meaning art style, design, tone, color, realistic.

This doesn't mean it's an ugly game, his fans seem to take it too personal and his haters take it to the extreme being overly critical.
 
thomasmahler said:
And yet, he's trying to use photorealism, PBR and a bunch of other stuff that makes his games look the exact same as every other game on the market. How about we don't just use 3d scans and come up with original art styles and designs?

I fail to see how Death Stranding looks all that different from all the other 3d games on the market.
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Your games are still some of the very best when it comes to art style and art direction. In an industry where developers are using 3D scans and borrowed assets, your enthusiasm for making a game with unique assets really sold me on No Rest for the Wicked.

I do think Kojima at least offers a unique experience in terms of gameplay, music, and presentation. I do wish more AAA studios would use Non-Photorealstic-Rendering (NPR) in their games though. It would nice to see more developers exaggerate shape and features of characters, expressions, and limited color choices to convey a mood.
 
I don't know if I agree with him about the military comments because if you watch videos they actually do put a lot of work with real weapons and personnel to try to make it authentic and realistic. But he's right about the games being too safe, at some point everybody just said Ubisoft style open world, yes let's do that. MGSV wasn't that far off from that formula either though.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
What is "on the nose style"?
People dislike him because he has all these press cheerleaders describing him as some sophisticated highbrow genius when the stories and dialogue in his games would shame a teenager.
When I play games I'm only playing games,I'm middle-aged, not an ADHD TikTok doomscrolling youngster, despite this I can't be arsed with often mediocre gameplay with absurd amounts of terribly written cutscenes, you're doing the same thing as the press, acting as if there is something sophisticated or highbrow that is demanding of the audience intellectually, it's very far from the case.

I'll also remind you that this thread is discussing an interview with him where alongside a fair comment on modern games, he made a dick of himself with his "I've learned so many ways to kill people" crap like Gareth from the Office.
Click to expand...

With on the nose I meant Kojimas desire to spell out most of the nuances. The opposite of subtle, if you will.
You might not percieve it this way, but he is a genius in what he does. You concentrate on story and writing and might not like it the way he does. And like I said, I wish he would write better, more nuanced and a bit more subtle, but his stories are intriguing and told in a specific style which I - and many others - dig. Call me stupid, call me a teenager, call me easily pleased, whatever you want.
Mediocre gameplay? That one I have to disagree with also... Which games of his have mediocre gameplay in your opinion? MGS V isn't beaten to this day for me in controlling a character from a third person perspective. Death Stranding - while I understand disliking it - feels good to play and fresh, like Mudrunner for a human character. Again, you can dislike it, but mediocre?

I'm not doing the same thing as the press even though you would seem to like it. I'm not saying you have to be sophisticated to enjoy his games. I'm saying you have to be able to be with yourself, be bored and be content with not knowing to enjoy Death Stranding 1 and 2 for example. You have to be able to suspend disbelief, to enjoy 4th wall breaking, to be able to enjoy light-hearted humour in dire situations, the clashing of emotions that normally aren't explored together. You don't have to be a genius to 'understand' his stories. But the central theme of MGS2 for example and the world we live in today is earily similar.
Same goes for Death Stranding 1 and the following years, whatever you think happened between end of '19 and end of '23.

You percieve it as Kojima making a dick of himself. Again, you don't have to agree with him when he says something, you don't have to like it. But if he trained dismantling a gun and learned to kill people in several ways, he has every right to articulate that, no matter how much people dislike him being real and honest about stuff like that. He doesn't put on a mask like many others do. He is a geek, a nerd, he wants to have fun, wether that is in his office making games, being on stage or doing an interview. He enjoys life and his creations and collaborating with others to the fullest... He is doing what a lot of people would like to do and seems to be able to troll and trigger people along the way... And able to touch and move others with his stories and characters. You don't have to like it, but letting him live in your head and creating this devil persona who can do nothing right in your eyes when clearly other people see it very differently, yeah... Don't know what to say anymore.
 
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Kupfer said:
You can like or dislike the games he makes, but you can't deny that this guy is unique, has a vision, and sticks to it.
One of the last remaining true OGs out there.
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Well, not every mind in the industry has Microsoft or Sony backing their wild ideas such as Death Stranding

Kojima was at the right place at the right time. His merit, MGS series was a masterpiece, but if he was starting today with some wacky idea such as Death Stranding, I doubt he would receive a budget higher than 500k.

Saying stuff like "I don't know why there arent many innovative games out there" is completely tone deaf but something expected from a guy who smells his own farts way too much.
 
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naguanatak said:
With on the nose I meant Kojimas desire to spell out most of the nuances. The opposite of subtle, if you will.
You might not percieve it this way, but he is a genius in what he does. You concentrate on story and writing and might not like it the way he does. And like I said, I wish he would write better, more nuanced and a bit more subtle, but his stories are intriguing and told in a specific style which I - and many others - dig. Call me stupid, call me a teenager, call me easily pleased, whatever you want.
Mediocre gameplay? That one I have to disagree with also... Which games of his have mediocre gameplay in your opinion? MGS V isn't beaten to this day for me in controlling a character from a third person perspective. Death Stranding - while I understand disliking it - feels good to play and fresh, like Mudrunner for a human character. Again, you can dislike it, but mediocre?

I'm not doing the same thing as the press even though you would seem to like it. I'm not saying you have to be sophisticated to enjoy his games. I'm saying you have to be able to be with yourself, be bored and be content with not knowing to enjoy Death Stranding 1 and 2 for example. You have to be able to suspend disbelief, to enjoy 4th wall breaking, to be able to enjoy light-hearted humour in dire situations, the clashing of emotions that normally aren't explored together. You don't have to be a genius to 'understand' his stories. But the central theme of MGS2 for example and the world we live in today is earily similar.
Same goes for Death Stranding 1 and the following years, whatever you think happened between end of '19 and end of '23.

You percieve it as Kojima making a dick of himself. Again, you don't have to agree with him when he says something, you don't have to like it. But if he trained dismantling a gun and learned to kill people in several ways, he has every right to articulate that, no matter how much people dislike him being real and honest about stuff like that. He doesn't put on a mask like many others do. He is a geek, a nerd, he wants to have fun, wether that is in his office making games, being on stage or doing an interview. He enjoys life and his creations and collaborating with others to the fullest... He is doing what a lot of people would like to do and seems to be able to troll and trigger people along the way... And able to touch and move others with his stories and characters. You don't have to like it, but letting him live in your head and creating this devil persona who can do nothing right in your eyes when clearly other people see it very differently, yeah... Don't know what to say anymore.
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He's a genius but you have to "be with yourself, be bored and be content with not knowing" to enjoy his games?
OK then.

Glad you enjoy his games, I can get some enjoyment but the fawning and genius talk is just.....sigh.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
He's a genius but you have to "be with yourself, be bored and be content with not knowing" to enjoy his games?
OK then.

Glad you enjoy his games, I can get some enjoyment but the fawning and genius talk is just.....sigh.
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Not 'his games'. I specifically mentioned Death Stranding for these requirements. Someone who gets easily bored or sees boredom as an inherently bad sensation won't get the same enjoyment as someone who cherishes to be alone with himself with these feelings and sensations of loneliness. It's in the game and for the first entry a big part of the MC.
The other 'requirements' I described being good for MGS to enjoy.

You see it as fawning because you want it to, that's your lens, your filter you see every description or mention of Kojima through, as do many others.
I never fawned or glorified him. He makes exceptional games for my tastes that all have some downsides and bad edges that I can see past because these games stayed with me for 26 years now.
Ueda with Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian did the same for me... His games some people describe as pretentious and artsy or what have you... Same people, different day.
There are other games that stayed with me for different reasons and I can see the genius in these developers, too... And then there are countless games I just enjoyed by developers who did or are doing a great job but wouldn't put in the same league as Kojima, Ueda, Myazaki...
There are even creators/designers like Jenova Chen whose games I adored (Cloud, Flow, Flower and Journey) and that lost me along the way (in this case with Sky), but I still see the 'genius' in his ideas and ability to convey emotion through videogames.
 
naguanatak said:
Not 'his games'. I specifically mentioned Death Stranding for these requirements. Someone who gets easily bored or sees boredom as an inherently bad sensation won't get the same enjoyment as someone who cherishes to be alone with himself with these feelings and sensations of loneliness. It's in the game and for the first entry a big part of the MC.
The other 'requirements' I described being good for MGS to enjoy.

You see it as fawning because you want it to, that's your lens, your filter you see every description or mention of Kojima through, as do many others.
I never fawned or glorified him. He makes exceptional games for my tastes that all have some downsides and bad edges that I can see past because these games stayed with me for 26 years now.
Ueda with Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian did the same for me... His games some people describe as pretentious and artsy or what have you... Same people, different day.
There are other games that stayed with me for different reasons and I can see the genius in these developers, too... And then there are countless games I just enjoyed by developers who did or are doing a great job but wouldn't put in the same league as Kojima, Ueda, Myazaki...
There are even creators/designers like Jenova Chen whose games I adored (Cloud, Flow, Flower and Journey) and that lost me along the way (in this case with Sky), but I still see the 'genius' in his ideas and ability to convey emotion through videogames.
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You call him a genius , if that's not fawning..
The thing is Ueda's game are subtle and thought provoking with their lonely atmosphere and lack of hand holding, there not "SNAAAAKKKKKE" then a 2 hour cut scene of gobbledygook
Strange comparison .

You'll notice that Miyazaki despite being the most influential designer of the last 15 years gets a fraction of the fawning. Why? Because he doesn't chase it unlike a certain knob.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
You call him a genius , if that's not fawning..
The thing is Ueda's game are subtle and thought provoking with their lonely atmosphere and lack of hand holding, there not "SNAAAAKKKKKE" then a 2 hour cut scene of gobbledygook
Strange comparison .

You'll notice that Miyazaki despite being the most influential designer of the last 15 years gets a fraction of the fawning. Why? Because he doesn't chase it unlike a certain knob.
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I give up.
Kojima seems to have violated you and many others personally. In your eyes he is a hack, makes boring and nonsense games, never makes a good decision and cannot be compared to other creators because he is bad at everything he does because it doesn't fit your sense of style or taste.
That there are other people who align with what Kojima expresses in his games and stories, that they like what he does and express that through words is fawning to you because how can such a stupid, arrogant and bad person be cherished by sane people, right?
:messenger_grinning_sweat:
I'm glad I'm not that obsessed with anyone in this world and am not into shitting on stuff I don't like.
Chocolate ice cream is so boring and absolute nonsense and everyone who likes it is either a high school drop out or retarted because, well... I don't like it :messenger_grinning_squinting:
 
naguanatak said:
I give up.
Kojima seems to have violated you and many others personally. In your eyes he is a hack, makes boring and nonsense games, never makes a good decision and cannot be compared to other creators because he is bad at everything he does because it doesn't fit your sense of style or taste.
That there are other people who align with what Kojima expresses in his games and stories, that they like what he does and express that through words is fawning to you because how can such a stupid, arrogant and bad person be cherished by sane people, right?
:messenger_grinning_sweat:
I'm glad I'm not that obsessed with anyone in this world and am not into shitting on stuff I don't like.
Chocolate ice cream is so boring and absolute nonsense and everyone who likes it is either a high school drop out or retarted because, well... I don't like it :messenger_grinning_squinting:
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Back to the Doritos, Geoff.
 
ecosse_011172 said:
You'll notice that Miyazaki despite being the most influential designer of the last 15 years gets a fraction of the fawning. Why? Because he doesn't chase it unlike a certain knob.
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Good as he is, its hard to argue against the fact thar he's basically made the same game over and over with very little conceptual advancement over that time.

The way his game-worlds are constructed has gone from hub-based to fully open between Demon's and Elden Ring, but the levels themselves and the sort of action being offered within are basically unchanged.

Creatively ambitious is not a phrase I'd use to describe his output. There aren't a lot of creative chances being taken, just elaboration on the gameplay formula established in 2009.
 
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