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Leader of Oregon occupation Ammon Bundy, at least 8 others arrested

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B

Bornstellar

Member
TS-08 said:
It's not presumptuous. It's apparent in your posts. If you had even the slightest knowledge of it, you would have acknowledged that that's what was being described, then launched into your criticism (either thinking it wouldn't apply to that situation or calling the rule unjust). Instead, you acted baffled that that first poster believed his hypothetical could result in a murder charge (indicated by you beginning with "..."), told him that isn't how murder works, then gave another poster a "lesson" in the distinction between murder and manslaughter.

Your explanation about why you chose to ignore the rule makes absolutely no sense. Apparently, if you believe something is unjust, you choose to ignore it, and inform people they are wrong when they describe it to you. That's an interesting way of interacting with people.
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When considering that the deceased was a perpetrator, no I didn't think felony murder was applicable in the situation. Sorry, I was wrong.

People on stream saying the deceased's weapon is still in the compound. Guy currently saying he was murdered on his knees and that the feds will do the same to them.

Oh dear.
 
M

mclem

Member
DrForester said:
Took over a government facility and demanded to release of two criminals
Destroyed government property
Threatened violence against law enforcement
Brought children to serve as human shields.
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That's basically the plot of Die Hard II, isn't it? With a caveat that the human shields are the people in the circling planes, instead.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Amibguous Cad said:
Given the past two years of law enforcement is it so hard to believe the feds shot first?
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Fed shooting first isn't even the problem. Fed shooting an unarmed man while his hands are up would be a problem and I think that unlikely. Especially for a group known to be gun nuts. But of course the fed could have gotten spooked or something and fired into the car because he thought he saw a firearm be brandished. I just think that unlikely given the scenario.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
Now imagine if protesters from BLM had shot st police...

I hope this proceeds as peacefully as possible... the cops have shown a lot of restraint here which i applaud. I just wish they would always do it.

(Before this incident in which we dont know the details yet)
 
Silent Chief

Silent Chief

Member
Idaho, Nevada, Utha, Montana. Is there no one there from Oregon?

If they are defending themselves against federal abuse, shouldn't they stay in their own states?
 
B

Bornstellar

Member
1280px-Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg


Jeez, what's up with the skewed distribution of federal lands anyway?
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
Volimar said:
We got halfway across the country before anyone thought that maybe we shouldn't piss all our resources away.
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Actually the best arable land has been claimed by farmers and homesteading policies at the time weren't allowing farms big enough to graze cattle and sheep. Nobody really wants to try and buy acres of Nevada desert from the government and nobody really wants to try and farm in rugged mountainous terrain.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
For once I'm glad I was wrong about the Feds just sitting on their asses.

Now they just need to make a trip down to the Bundy Ranch and tie up a few loose ends and we'll be good to go.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Amibguous Cad said:
Given the past two years of law enforcement is it so hard to believe the feds shot first?
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Even if they shot first, I would still be inclined to believe that they legitimately feared for their safety. These were armed thugs who have been threatening to kill law enforcement officers for a month.


NBC story had something that made me laugh.

At the federal wildlife refuge, protester Jason Patrick told NBC News that the remaining supporters were discussing if and how the occupation might end.

"Right now … I'm talking to other leadership. It's just Americans that are defending the constitution that's what it looks like," he said.

"Peaceful resolution is what you keep hearing and a peaceful resolution is what we expect," he added.

Four carloads of occupiers left early Wednesday, and Patrick said children at the scene had gone. Meanwhile, police and FBI officers established a series of checkpoints along key routes leading to the site.
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Just imagining a bunch of rednecks bugging out amuses me.
 
P

PeteZaTheHutt

Member
ICKE said:
Of course. But my understanding is that this was literally in the middle-of-nowhere. A bunch of empty buildings where men were role playing freedom fighters. I don't want to make any excuses for these sovereign citizen types but these farmers didn't seem to pose any immediate threat to anyone.

I suppose something had to be done after officers retreated in the previous Bundy standoff. Hopefully it wasn't the FBI that started the shooting, because you don't want to create martyrs. Or who knows, maybe he had a death wish.

Edit : Apparently the guy had 11 foster kids as well. What a mess.
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How does a person with very controversial public views like this have any foster kids, let alone eleven. What public child welfare worker vetted this guy and gave the all clear for foster children to live there? As a parent who had to jump through a lot of legal hoops and red tape to adopt a single child, this boggles the mind.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Wow, apparently there's around 150 FBI vehicles at the refuge. These guys ain't fucking around!
 
S

Slayven

Member
Oblivion said:
Wow, apparently they're around 150 FBI vehicles at the refuge. These guys ain't fucking around!
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THey must have gotten some chatter, or intel something was about to go down.

I can see that, those knuckle heads were probably getting antsy and tired of being ignored.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Remember when Tarpman repeatedly said that he would rather die than go to jail?

Yeah....I'm gonna give the Feds the benefit of the doubt on this one.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
Why can't they just cut the electricity and water, then apply riot control measures such as sound cannons etc to confuse them and eventually just have them walk out. It should not be that difficult to isolate people properly and then just wait it out.

It feels like the American police/FBI only has two states. You either back down completely (even mail was distributed to them not too long ago) or just have a shootout. On the other hand, it would not surprise me at all if deadly was force was necessary considering that these are sovereign citizen types.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Gotta love how so many people on the internet readily believe the "Fed shot first"/"Fed shot an unarmed man" without "waiting for more information" when these same people are so quick to dismiss that same thing time and time again when it comes to black Americans interaction with local LEO.

Oh America.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
ICKE said:
Why can't they just cut the electricity and water, then apply riot control measures such as sound cannons etc to confuse them and eventually just have them walk out. It should not be that difficult to isolate people properly and then just wait it out.

It feels like the American police/FBI only has two states. You either back down completely or just have a shootout.
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Riot control on heavily armed dudes?

That's suicide.

Let's not forget who escalated this issue--the militia.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
entremet said:
Riot control on heavily armed dudes?

That's suicide.

Let's not forget who escalated this issue--the militia.
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What do they have? A bunch of rifles against armored vehicles and officers in full gear? What I mean by riot control measures is that you can just use sound cannons and other equipment so that they can't sleep properly etc.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
ICKE said:
Why can't they just cut the electricity and water, then apply riot control measures such as sound cannons etc to confuse them and eventually just have them walk out. It should not be that difficult to isolate people properly and then just wait it out.

It feels like the American police/FBI only has two states. You either back down completely or just have a shootout.
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im thinking roadside arrest was probably the best way to get this done. If the power was cut they would have hunkered down. If sonic weapons or riot control was deployed they would have fired from their position. These arent protesters. These are armed militia looking for a firefight. Confronting them in their defensible position sounds like the worst way to go about it if you dont want casualties. If casualties are acceptable a drone strike would have been the best method.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
ICKE said:
What do they have? A bunch of rifles against armored vehicles and officers in full gear?
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You still need to apprehend them, which involves storming the compound.

There's still potential for lethal engagements and firefights.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
It seems Tarpman was actually killed by police officers and not FBI agents. Conservatives might have a problem with this one as they hold the former in higher regard than the latter.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
water_wendi said:
im thinking roadside arrest was probably the best way to get this done. If the power was cut they would have hunkered down. If sonic weapons or riot control was deployed they would have fired from their position. These arent protesters. These are armed militia looking for a firefight. Confronting them in their defensible position sounds like the worst way to go about it if you dont want casualties. If casualties are acceptable a drone strike would have been the best method.
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That is a valid point.

I just assumed that they would cut water and electricity and eventually these militia members would grow tired and go back to their homes. And at that point arresting them one by one would be much easier.
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
Angelus Errare said:
Gotta love how so many people on the internet readily believe the "Fed shot first"/"Fed shot an unarmed man" without "waiting for more information" when these same people are so quick to dismiss that same thing time and time again when it comes to black Americans interaction with local LEO.

Oh America.
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That's true...and if one of them did get shot with their hands up maybe the obstinate people refusing to believe people in authority aren't always the good guys will wake up. We have a good number of white people being killed by cops too but that never makes the news, maybe that would get too many people upset at how shit LEO really can be. But this, this is already nationwide so eyes are already watching.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
ICKE said:
What do they have? A bunch of rifles against armored vehicles and officers in full gear? What I mean by riot control measures is that you can just use sound cannons and other equipment so that they can't sleep properly etc.
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i wouldnt be surprised if these guys all had green tip ammo. And if sonic weapon is within range to be effective then they are definitely within rifle range.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
ICKE said:
That is a valid point.

I just assumed that they would cut water and electricity and eventually these militia members would grow tired and go back to their homes. And at that point arresting them one by one would be much easier.
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It seems like your expecting rationality from these guys lol.

They've already shown they're not afraid at shooting at federal agents. They deserve no benefit of the doubt.

I definitely think this should not be a Waco/Ruby Ridge situation. But they've been given a long leash and they've only been digging in.
 
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