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[Sexually Aggressive Uncle]

if you think the feds goofed by shooting somebody (probably armed) who was threatening them with violence during a traffic stop ... i dont really know what to tell you

Well obviously when you have officers under fire, which I believe was the case here, they have every right to defend themselves and I have no problem with that however you also have to take in account of who your're dealing with. These people would love to have a martyr for their ridiculous cause and I'm sure there was an outbreak of freedom boners in mountain strongholds all throughout 'Merica when they heard that one of their own was gunned down by a fed.

In that sense, yeah it was a mistake. Probably unavoidable but I'm sure that's not what they wanted to have happen.

 

[mcfrank]

I'm trying to figure out how "do nothing" and ending up in a situation where one person is dead is preferrable to "cutting off all resources and not allowing them to have their way" and ending an armed occupation before it gets momentum.

You're fine with allowing them to leave, eat in town, get food and drinks, allowing them to destroy government property, stalk and harass federal employees and law enforcement, use federal computers (which potentially have sensitive information on them), use federal vehicles, and the many, many other list of things that these people have done? You think that what happened was the best way of dealing with the situation?

Nobody had to get shot. Nobody had to die. This is a direct result of inaction. It's fucking ridiculous to suggest that a hands off approach was the only way of dealing with this.

These fuckers were always going to go out shooting. That was their plan.

 

[Piggus]

I knew these were gun nuts cowboy wannabe, but I honestly didn't expect actual shoot-out, much less a dead militia.

Based on his previous comments, there was no way Lavoy was going down easy even though him and his wife had 11 kids, some of them foster kids apparently. The guy was obviously pretty nutty, but the situation is sad.

 

[Bornstellar]

I knew these were gun nuts cowboy wannabe, but I honestly didn't expect actual shoot-out, much less a dead militia.

Curious if we'll get video.

 

[TyrantII]

I'm trying to figure out how "do nothing" and ending up in a situation where one person is dead is preferrable to "cutting off all resources and not allowing them to have their way" and ending an armed occupation before it gets momentum.

You're fine with allowing them to leave, eat in town, get food and drinks, allowing them to destroy government property, stalk and harass federal employees and law enforcement, use federal computers (which potentially have sensitive information on them), use federal vehicles, and the many, many other list of things that these people have done? You think that what happened was the best way of dealing with the situation?

Nobody had to get shot. Nobody had to die. This is a direct result of inaction. It's fucking ridiculous to suggest that a hands off approach was the only way of dealing with this.

That's not how these thing work. Read up on Ruby Ridge, Waco, and others.

So far this is classic de-escalation, and not giving these fucktards the martyrdom shootout at the ranch that they so desperately wanted.

 

[besada]

We have confirmation they pulled arms on the LEOs?

. This needed to end without violence. Could have done it had the Fed's acted to cut off supplies / utilities.

Not official confirmation yet, but unofficially, yes:

Law-enforcement officials familiar with the matter said the incident took place as Mr. Bundy and a handful of other leaders were driving to a public event nearby. Agents with the FBI stopped the vehicle, at which point one of the individuals in the vehicle pulled out a weapon, the people familiar with the incident said.

At that point, FBI agents fired. The individual who was brandishing the weapon suffered fatal injuries, officials said. Officials didn’t identify the dead suspect. Another suspect suffered non-life-threatening injuries, these people said. No FBI agents were injured, according to these people.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/oregon-...ed-by-fbi-in-violent-confrontation-1453864450

If correct, Finicum pulled a gun himself.

As for ending without violence, that has always been the choice of the people who took over a federal building with weapons. So long as you have crazy people with guns saying they're fighting the government, the chance of violence, no matter how the situation is handled, is high. Sooner or later you have to arrest them, and they're all armed and deny the authority of the government to arrest them, so it was always likely someone was going to get shot.

 

[Bornstellar]

Not official confirmation yet, but unofficially, yes:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/oregon-...ed-by-fbi-in-violent-confrontation-1453864450

If correct, Finicum pulled a gun himself.

As for ending without violence, that has always been the choice of the people who took over a federal building with weapons. So long as you have crazy people with guns saying they're fighting the government, the chance of violence, no matter how the situation is handled, is high. Sooner or later you have to arrest them, and they're all armed and deny the authority of the government to arrest them, so it was always likely someone was going to get shot.

Still, there has to be video of the incident given it was a traffic stop?

EDIT: Jesus, the comments on these articles. People actively encouraging the government to massacre people.

 

[besada]

Still, there has to be video of the incident given it was a traffic stop?

Entirely possible. No one is saying one way or the other yet. They're still processing folks and dealing with the people left at Malheur.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

These fuckers were always going to go out shooting. That was their plan.

I don't agree, at least in the beginning. I think that it was a whole lot of bluster and the lack of action on behalf of law enforcement made them believe their own hype.

But regardless of if I'm wrong or right, that still doesn't justify this do nothing approach that someone thought was a good idea. Why should they eave? If they believe their cause is just, and they're being allowed to break the law without consequence, why would they stop doing that?

Unless I've missed it, nobody has explained to me how doing nothing was the right play.

fake edit:

Oh. So we're doing the whole Ruby Ridge/Waco thing again. Okay.

 

[KHarvey16]

Still, there has to be video of the incident given it was a traffic stop?

They were stopped by the FBI, so it's entirely possible there were no cameras present.

 

[Stinkles]

I'm sure it will get leaked, the dash cam footage will be erased and claims of malfunction, nothing will happen and life will go on.

I'm confused about this post.

 

[lawnchair]

RUBY RIDGE WACO
RUBY RIDGE WACO

 

[Bornstellar]

They were stopped by the FBI, so it's entirely possible there were no cameras present.

So, not a traffic stop then.

 

[Loxley]

 

[lawnchair]

"It appears that America was fired upon by our government. One of liberty's finest patriots is fallen. He will not go silent into eternity," the occupiers said on the Bundy Ranch Facebook page.

 

[PopeReal]

They were stopped by the FBI, so it's entirely possible there were no cameras present.

I thought it was Oregon State Police that pulled them over. Hopefully there is footage.

 

[Key2001]

Was this the first time Ammon Bundy had left Refuge since the occupation?

I read that some had brought children with them to the occupation, that may had played some part in trying not to agitate these armed idiots by starving them out or anything.

 

[Flo_Evans]

"It appears that America was fired upon by our government. One of liberty's finest patriots is fallen. He will not go silent into eternity," the occupiers said on the Bundy Ranch Facebook page.

Welp. Hope the rest of them surrender.

 

[DrForester]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35416516

BBC reporting the FBI is setting up a perimeter at the refuge. Just a matter of time now.

Shootout and FBI finally locking the place down. This is going to become big news tomorrow.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Was this the first time Ammon Bundy had left Refuge since the occupation?

I read that some had brought children with them to the occupation, that may had played some part in trying not to agitate these armed idiots by starving them out or anything.

It seems like I saw rumblings of this in the other thread, but was that confirmed? I feel like I saw something on twitter that said it was a hoax in the early part of the occupation, but I'm not sure.

If so, I can understand it, to a point. Still doesn't justify allowing them to leave and make trips to the bar.

 

[KHarvey16]

I thought it was Oregon State Police that pulled them over. Hopefully there is footage.

Going by the press release, it looks like the FBI stopped the vehicle on highway 235 and the state police made a separate arrest in Burns.

 

[PopeReal]

Going by the press release, it looks like the FBI stopped the vehicle on highway 235 and the state police made a separate arrest in Burns.

Ah. Thanks I missed that.

 

[TyrantII]

Unless I've missed it, nobody has explained to me how doing nothing was the right play.

fake edit:

Oh. So we're doing the whole Ruby Ridge/Waco thing again. Okay.

You do realize the FBI was able to take their entire leadership into custody tonight except for the one idiot who pulled a gun and said he was never going to be taken alive.

They just decapitated the snake, with minimal force.

 

[besada]

I thought it was Oregon State Police that pulled them over. Hopefully there is footage.

The only statement made by the officials so far says it was a joint action by the FBI and Oregon State Police. No idea who pulled the rigger, or if both groups were present during the arrest. But the stop was an attempt to serve a warrant on one or more of them, not a regular traffic stop.

 

[lednerg]

BWAHAHAHAHA

link

 

[Key2001]

It seems like I saw rumblings of this in the other thread, but was that confirmed? I feel like I saw something on twitter that said it was a hoax in the early part of the occupation, but I'm not sure.

If so, I can understand it, to a point. Still doesn't justify allowing them to leave and make trips to the bar.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/mom...r-surreal-performance-before-armed-militants/

I am sure there are others but I believe it was in the other thread that I read about it as well.

If this was the first time Ammon Bundy had traveled from the refuge, they may had just been waiting for an opportunity to arrest him and/or other leaders when they left the refuge.

 

[Tallshortman]

About damn time these clowns were removed by force after the copious amounts of room they were given to end this peacefully.

 

[Slayven]

Shootout and FBI finally locking the place down. This is going to become big news tomorrow.

What made them move now?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

You do realize the FBI was able to take their entire leadership into custody tonight except for the one idiot who pulled a gun and said he was never going to be taken alive.

They just decapitated the snake, with minimal force.

I do.

And after reading the blizzard of information that I'm sure will come out tomorrow, I might very well change my opinion on this. As of now, I don't think "let them do what they want for a month" was the right play, but I'm fluid.

 

[brian577]

What made them move now?

Pressure from the governor.

 

[Stinkles]

These clowns just killed their bro and endangered a community because they love action movies and are dumb.

 

[Opto]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35416516

BBC reporting the FBI is setting up a perimeter at the refuge. Just a matter of time now.

fucking finally

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

What made them move now?

Assholes pulled a gun on local police and federal agents.

 

[FelixOrion]

What made them move now?

I wonder if its because they got a lot of their leaders, as besada pointed out, into a single vehicle so they could move in one swoop and leave them leaderless and disorganized.

 

[Kyou]

if only people had sent snacks, they wouldn't have had to leave

truly we are the real monsters

 

[FelixOrion]

BWAHAHAHAHA

link

How about Wil Wheaton's reply:

Wil Wheaton ‏@wilw 17m
@pattonoswalt A Bundy supporter looks on, forlorn, directionless. A single tear falls from his face, one drop in a giant puddle of lube.

 

[Slayven]

Pressure from the governor.

Assholes pulled a gun on local police and federal agents.

I wonder if its because they got a lot of their leaders, as besada pointed out, into a single vehicle so they could move in one swoop and leave them leaderless and disorganized.

So pretty much a perfect storm?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

if only people had sent snacks, they wouldn't have had to leave

truly we are the real monsters

Nah, they had sympathizers sending snacks, unfortunately.

All the packages weren't only dildos and bags of (gummi) dicks.

 

[FelixOrion]

 

[besada]

There's supposedly an FBI press conference scheduled for about an hour from now.

In other news, Pete Santilli was arrested on the same charges as the rest of them. Santilli is a known anti-government youtuber who's been covering and supporting the occupation of Malheur, while not actually being directly involved, so far as I know, but they picked him up outside of the hospital where he was waiting, in hopes of identifying who turned out to be O'Shaughnessy.

 

[Bornstellar]

There's supposedly an FBI press conference scheduled for about an hour from now.

In other news, Pete Santilli was arrested on the same charges as the rest of them. Santilli is a known anti-government youtuber who's been covering and supporting the occupation of Malheur, while not actually being directly involved, so far as I know, but they picked him up outside of the hospital where he was waiting, in hopes of identifying who turned out to be O'Shaughnessy.

If he wasn't directly involved I have a hard time imagining he gets convicted.

 

[FelixOrion]

There's supposedly an FBI press conference scheduled for about an hour from now.

In other news, Pete Santilli was arrested on the same charges as the rest of them. Santilli is a known anti-government youtuber who's been covering and supporting the occupation of Malheur, while not actually being directly involved, so far as I know, but they picked him up outside of the hospital where he was waiting, in hopes of identifying who turned out to be O'Shaughnessy.

I'm so ready

 

[besada]

If he wasn't directly involved I have a hard time imagining he gets convicted.

Reading further it appears Santilli has recently signed on fully, vowing to stay until the feds turned over the lands. At first he was mostly just mixing in and covering it, even though he's a huge Bundy supporter, but it looks as the days went on he got more involved than he should have.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I'm so ready

Me too, holy shit.

I want to know everything.

I hope that this doesn't embolden other lunatics, but I don't have any reason to believe that this won't happen again, especially after that statement from the Bundy Ranch on facebook posted earlier.

 

[kaching]

Nobody had to get shot. Nobody had to die. This is a direct result of inaction. It's fucking ridiculous to suggest that a hands off approach was the only way of dealing with this.

I wouldn't go about suggesting that the hands-off approach was the only way of dealing with this, but then I also wouldn't declare some kind of weird, inexplicable correlation between inaction and body count, esp. when 1 month of inaction apparently results in the staggering loss of 1 life, which has gotta be within the realm of statistical error, ffs.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Additional Arrest Made in Arizona Related to the Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
Joint Statement by the FBI and OSP

At 8:30 p.m. (PST) on Tuesday, January 26, 2016, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI) Phoenix Division made a probable cause arrest of Jon Eric Ritzheimer, age 32, on a federal charge related to the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County, Oregon. Ritzheimer turned himself into the Peoria, Arizona, Police Department. The arrest was without incident.

Ritzheimer faces one federal felony charge of conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation, or threats, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 372.

The FBI made the Arizona arrest in conjunction with a series of other arrests made by FBI and Oregon State Police in Harney County, Oregon, earlier in the evening. The following individuals also face the same charge:

Ammon Edward Bundy, age 40, of Emmett, Idaho
Ryan C. Bundy, age 43, of Bunkerville, Nevada
Brian Cavalier, age 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada
Shawna Cox, age 59, Kanab, Utah
Ryan Waylen Payne, age 32, of Anaconda, Montana
Joseph Donald O’Shaughnessy, age 45, of Cottonwood, Arizona
Peter Santilli, age 50, of Cincinnati, Ohio
We continue to work with Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward and his deputies and the United States Attorney’s Office to address any further outstanding issues. As the investigation is ongoing, we cannot comment further at this time.

All defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

That's the "daddy made an oath guy" who did the protests at a mosque and later posted a gofundme looking for money because he was being threatened, for those wondering.

 

[la flama blanca]

Is there any sort of live-feed I can follow with updates?

 

[Vice]

There's supposedly an FBI press conference scheduled for about an hour from now.

In other news, Pete Santilli was arrested on the same charges as the rest of them. Santilli is a known anti-government youtuber who's been covering and supporting the occupation of Malheur, while not actually being directly involved, so far as I know, but they picked him up outside of the hospital where he was waiting, in hopes of identifying who turned out to be O'Shaughnessy.

Could you place a link in the opening post?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Well, they are U.S. citizens and have the right of due process, no matter how scummy they are.

Everyone has the right to due process, not just citizens.

Citizenship does NOT grant you extra protections under the law.

Pretty much the ONLY things citizenship grants you are the right to vote, the right to hold office, and the right to serve in a jury.

 

[PopeReal]

Me too, holy shit.

I want to know everything.

I hope that this doesn't embolden other lunatics, but I don't have any reason to believe that this won't happen again, especially after that statement from the Bundy Ranch on facebook posted earlier.

The were already emboldened I think.

The feds walked away from the Bundy Ranch. They didn't do anything and Bundy himself still owes a shit ton of money and they don't bother him. (that is Ammon Bundy's father to be clear to others)

Despite them walking away and doing jack shit, this is the response these idiots had. So I personally can't buy the theory that this will make things worse. I certainly wanted no blood shed but these guys had already put their line in the sand despite the feds showing before the refuge takeover that they wanted no part.