-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
League of Legends |OT9| Stealing Abilities From Inferior MOBAs since 2009
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
- Start date
- Status
That would require Riot to put in extra effort, and would in theory make them less money since people would buy less skins.
Costs more, makes less! I mean, it'd be awesome for players, but yeah sounds rough from a business standpoint unless statistics show people will buy skins that way.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
kpop ahri is best ahri
if ur bad
if ur bad
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That would require Riot to put in extra effort, and would in theory make them less money since people would buy less skins.
Costs more, makes less! I mean, it'd be awesome for players, but yeah sounds rough from a business standpoint unless statistics show people will buy skins that way.
Actually the trade off would be people become even more invested into the characters they play. Blizz is smart for doing this, because they're so late into the MobA scene, so having something that invests a person into the character they play is a good way to retain players.
The mistake Riot made was introducing the character progression and Chroma skins so late. It's obvious they ripped both from Heroes of the Storm. The difference is, that in HotS both are integral to each character. Character progression unlocks you in game currency, icons, skins, and skin variations(That is, color sets like the Chroma pack.) It's all tied to the character progression system. They designed HotS with this in mind, so that's why it works so well.
Riot decided to say 'me too!' and tried implementing all of that...except it came out poorly. Instead of having good rewards like the HotS character progression(In game currency rewards, a 'master' skin, skin variations, icons), you get..........a little badge that pops up in game, a little icon on the loading screen...and I guess when you kill someone it looks a little bit different? Basically things that a player doesn't really want or care about.
And yeah, if Riot is trying to make the most profit possible for the game, chances are they won't do anything for the player for a long while. (And I could care less about the game modes they introduce, I feel it just takes away from the part everyone cares about by having sources work on these one-off modes.)
true
kpop ahri is best ahri
well, not everything is that simpleThat would require Riot to put in extra effort, and would in theory make them less money since people would buy less skins.
Costs more, makes less! I mean, it'd be awesome for players, but yeah sounds rough from a business standpoint unless statistics show people will buy skins that way.
say, champion mastery doesn't turn into money 1:1, but they still do it because it adds 'value' to the game
the big problem that riot has for giving free stuff and customization and crap is that their business model has historically been "charge for everything", which means that whenever they make something free a lot of ppl is gonna be at their throats for it
free chromas? but old skins were just recolors!
free avatars? but i payed like 500rp for this shitty thing!
so while doing things for free might add 'value' to the game, it also creates those problems with old players and if they start refunding everyone for the money they spent that's also complicated etc
i guess riot when stuck in that situation just goes on as usual since ppl seem to be ok with buying these things.
personally i think selling avatars is beyond ridiculous, and i'm not a fan of chromas in general, specially since the way they sell them seems very shitty to me, but not too fussed about the lack of free shit since what i'm interested which is skins is pretty reasonably priced for the awesome quality it is
i don't see how riot isn't "doing anything for the player for a long while"
like i listed before:
out of those only champions and skins are things that are sold, the rest are things for free that riot makes to make their game more fun
I think the key question is, does Riot actually have a problem retaining players? Unless their player count stops climbing (last I heard it was higher than DOTA2 and climbing), I doubt they are too concerned about losing players.
Also, making people invest in a specific champion even more could add more problems in non-team-builder modes. That's the only mode where you can even guarantee a role. In ranked etc. you may be a mastery 5 level whatever with a skin, but chances are someone else may just override you and feed.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Let's break it down
new map is because the other map was a mess visually. It sucked, it was inevitable they would make a new map. So I wouldn't say it was 'for the players' as it was more for their presentation of the game.
New champions....that they sell. Some would say that the roster is bloated and fucks over balances with each champion they release. Others say that new champions come out OP to make a quick sell. This isnt' for the players, it's part of their business plan.
New UI? They fucked things over by making buffs display all the way to the left with little, barely visible small icons. Again, a given like the map remake.
A billion skins..that they sale. For money. It's not for the players, its' for business. The punishment system? Again, Blizzard and Valve have punishment systems as well. The Tribunal? It's been 'down' for how long? And even then it's just outsourcing punishments to the playerbase.
Champion Mastery..is literally nothing. I listed it's problem above.
Special modes just take resources they can be using to balance the game or do other things. But they're sparse enough that it isn't a problem.
LCS...again, all it does is make the tournaments proprietary, and again it's not something that directly affects an average players enjoyment of the game.
And patches are a given. If they stopped patching, people would probably stop playing sooner or later. Let's look at DotA, the patches are few and far, but when the patches come out, they are huge and usually well thought out/well patched. Or if you like analogies, Riots patching is akin to sticking a band aid over and over and over again on a cut. Yeah it happens frequently, but it's not the best thing you can do. Valve would be akin to taking the cut to a doctor, having to wait a bit, but getting it stitched up properly.
Yeah, Riot does some things for its players, but alot of them have their business and profit in mind. Yes, all games need to make a profit, but the way Riot does it is alot worse than what Valve does with DotA.(I've yet to form an opinion on HotS and their business, as it just came out, but they already offer alot out of the gate for virtually no buy-in.)
True enough, but the bubble has to burst sooner or later for League IMO. Blizzard, the reason why their character progression system is so giving, again IMO, is because that's one way to retain playerbase when they're coming in so late to the scene. It's a smart business move on their part if it does what they want it to do. It's just that Riot said 'me too!' and made a poor copy paste when realistically they didn't need a system like that.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
the problem with hots is that it sucks ballsacks.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Your first 2 links be borke, and you just meet the angriest people Newt.
i think you're a bit delusional if u think league's popularity is a bubble that can burst. it's the equivalent of wow in the level of almost monopoly of the genre. league has ten times as many concurrent players as doto, i really don't see how you can think that riot is stressing out over losing players
i don't doto so can't comment on how they do their shit, but i'm confused on how riot can look good in your eyes if
awesome new map - bullshit, the map should be awesome already!
new ui - bullshit, the ui should be awesome already!
new champions - doesn't matter since they're selling them
new skins - doesn't matter since they're selling them
champion mastery - they don't give me free shit, so fuck rito!
special modes - i don't care about them so they're just waste of resources!
lcs - uhhh i don't even get your complaint about this one...
patches - suck cos they're not like doto. even if in doto there are champions with like 32% winrate and champions you can't even play in ranked or some shit...
so i'm kind of unsure if there's even a discussion to be had here because when riot does something they should've done that well in the first place, and if you don't care about it (lcs/special modes) then it doesn't matter
i don't doto so can't comment on how they do their shit, but i'm confused on how riot can look good in your eyes if
awesome new map - bullshit, the map should be awesome already!
new ui - bullshit, the ui should be awesome already!
new champions - doesn't matter since they're selling them
new skins - doesn't matter since they're selling them
champion mastery - they don't give me free shit, so fuck rito!
special modes - i don't care about them so they're just waste of resources!
lcs - uhhh i don't even get your complaint about this one...
patches - suck cos they're not like doto. even if in doto there are champions with like 32% winrate and champions you can't even play in ranked or some shit...
so i'm kind of unsure if there's even a discussion to be had here because when riot does something they should've done that well in the first place, and if you don't care about it (lcs/special modes) then it doesn't matter
Stone Ocean
Member
My love for virtual characters wearing pretty shit cannot be shaken by thy words
Fixed.
Stone Ocean
Member
Happy to have your support
BreezyLimbo
Banned
And in your eyes Riot can do no wrong...? Riot has issues, it's my point. If you want to have a discussion dissecting it, I'm free to do that. Yeah, League is extremely popular, but DotA is just up there. In China DotA is more popular than League IIRC, and China is a huuuuge country.
And again, you generalize my dissection of your 'they do things for players' post. 'The map/ui/whatever should be awesome already?'. No, it's an update. Alot of games do updates. DotA has done visual updates for some characters. HotS has done some visual updates for the characters. That you think 'it's all done for the player!' is a bit naive. And you're actually wrong about DotA not having playable champions, IIRC more DotA has had more characters played in their previous tournaments than League has(That is, there is a higher selectable pool of 'viable' characters for DotA than there is League.'
Hell, I'm watching LCS right now. Between these different groups that have played already, there are alot of characters crossed picked between these different groups and different games (Thresh, Nautilus, Reksai, Ryze). And you have the same bans on other viable characters.
(And yeah, Champion Mastery does suck because it was ripped from another game that had it implemented better.)
Syph Medwes
Member
Honestly I'm just impressed you guys held a convo in postgame chat that long lol
Stone Ocean
Member
China is League's biggest region, what are you talking about lol
League is many times bigger than Dota 2 as far as playerbase goes, specially in China. Dota is in second place and is pretty close if not even when it comes to competitive play, but as far as the general populace? 1% of the entire human race plays League, it's not even a contest.
League is many times bigger than Dota 2 as far as playerbase goes, specially in China. Dota is in second place and is pretty close if not even when it comes to competitive play, but as far as the general populace? 1% of the entire human race plays League, it's not even a contest.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is it? I remember hearing the opposite that DotA 2 was pretty damn big in China.
Stone Ocean
Member
The latest chinese stats I can find from net cafes:
And considering League's peak concurrent player count is 10 times bigger than Dota's, I don't see how this situation possibly changed, specially since LPL has been growing massively in the past year or so. I mean, one Chinese streamer had over two million viewers one day last year.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's disgusting.
killatopak
Member
disgusting?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yes? 2 million people watching a streamer. Those are disgusting numbers. (unless it was a tournament stream, in which case it'd make sense. But one player?)
And don't take me wrong, I don't hate league. I like playing it. I just dislike Riot.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
np nerd.
playing lux into an all assassin comp is pretty painful
i hate normals
i hate this videogame lol
where do you think most of league's millions and millions of players are coming from...
also no one denies riot has problems
it's the hyperbole that's annoying
i hate normals
i hate this videogame lol
doto is not more popular in china than league, wtf are you talking about
where do you think most of league's millions and millions of players are coming from...
also no one denies riot has problems
it's the hyperbole that's annoying
because some random guinsoo thing that happened a billion years ago and no one cares about or do you have a valid reason to dislike riot?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well, that's one way to get me to ignore you when you're misrepresenting what I've said. Like holy shit, that's bad, I never mentioned Guinsoo once. Sooooo bad.
90% of the doters that show up here hate on riot because of something guinsoo did like a billion years ago
it gets tiring
glad you're not one of those den
my bad
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I've been playing League for 5 years(minus a year break I took last year.) You can look me up on league(same name as GAF name.) Sorry if it seems that I'm just hopping in and hating on League, but it happens I'm just critical of the decisions Riot makes.(Which isn't new, with Destiny I've criticized it just as much despite putting a shitton of hours into the game.)
PhillipCostigan
Member
I have 9k ip and no idea who I want to buy. I like every lane.
+ Zac
Fioraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Dobkeratops
OT Hard Carry
Will be better next patch when you can taunt with it
Donger and kog are must buys wardo. After that probably Viktor
You mean they're going to make the existing taunt visible to the other team after all?
Ghost is Bad
Banned
Was on pbe last week anyway so hopefully
Skarner is right there.
killatopak
Member
I have 9k ip and no idea who I want to buy. I like every lane.
+ Zac
Riven is the most popular top lane pick for a reason you know?
I've played her in 300 games and I still haven't tapped into 50% of her potential. High skill ceiling.
If you like to bully people, I also highly recommend Renekton. He's a really good champ and he fits right in the tank meta.
Hmm.. very possible
I dont really like Kog. I do like his taunt tho hehe.
Donger might be a good choice.
Ya he's tempting. I havent played him in forever so I might give him a go since he's free anyways.
Meh. I refunded Riven a long time ago. She was fun at the time, but isn't rly that appealing to me now. I haven't played Rene since earlier in Season 4, but I guess I could try him again soon.
Stone Ocean
Member
His numbers are fucking ridiculous, specially considering how much shit he has in his kit
I've only seen a few times, but my general experiences are:
1. If I'm playing him, I can get kills, but if other lanes feed 10-20 kills before laning phase ends, it's hard for me to help them. This may just mean I'm bad at roaming, or that those games had bad luck.
2. If someone else is playing him on my team, they get kills, but they play with the Riven / Master Yi / Vayne style of chasing kills only, having a bad attitude, and ignoring all towers and dragons (ignoring split pushing Master Yi's). I'm not sure I've won a single game with an Ekko mid on my team other than myself, and I've lost most of the games where -I- play him.
Overall I think his win rates being under 50% at every level above gold, last time I checked, suggests he's not truly as overpowered as some would suggest. This may be especially true once people learn the W range and cooldown.
His numbers are high so he can indeed be annoying if a team chases through his ghost, or if he lands a full combo on top of an unprotected enemy.
My personal suspicion is that he will continue to be banned in something like 95% of my silver games, and that will only change if Riot nerfs something about him. Even if Riot nerfs something by 5 damage, making an almost meaningless change, that might be enough for the general attitude to turn around and stop banning him as much. I'm not sure.
i dunno, i had a ekko on my team in one of my games who fed his ass off
didnt matter, it's ekko, he still rekt shit.
- Status