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League of Legends |OT9| Stealing Abilities From Inferior MOBAs since 2009
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
- Start date
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Mister Negative
Member
all the romance languages gender their nouns iirc
OddOne is talking right now about how fiddle jungle is gonna get super nerfed because of the new AP item, is PieceOfSheet style fiddle jungle where you just go amp tome at the start not viable? I know it was a few seasons ago but idk about in this current jungle
Even PoS doesn't play Fiddle anymore. The last time I saw him play, he was playing Diana.
Olaf jungle is lots of fun btw. U can run so fast with Righteous Glory, Ghostblade and Ult lol. I went 14/1 in my last game. RiP enemy carries.
elise changes are interesting
i find it kind of weird this is the direction they're going tho, riot always complained about elise being too good at everything and these changes are just giving her viability which will probably make those issues apparent again?
i guess it's better than staying olaf'd but still
i find it kind of weird this is the direction they're going tho, riot always complained about elise being too good at everything and these changes are just giving her viability which will probably make those issues apparent again?
i guess it's better than staying olaf'd but still
Stone Ocean
Member
It's probably just a bandaid fix until they rework her eventually.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The Elise changes wont help her out much. Like Khazix, shes too dependent on single target. Right now AoE tanks are king, and Elise just doesnt bring enough compared to gragas, reksai, lee, or sejuani. Goving her slightly better sustain isnt going to fix her
Yeah, rather they just rework her. She'll always be hard to balance as long as she gets to double dip her two best damage spells with a single skill point.
Riot's even admitted her kit was pushed out the door sooner than they would have liked, so why not take the opportunity revamp her kit? There's so much design space in a seductress/giant spider that quite a bit of kit feels lazy (both forms of W, spiderlings are stupid...)
Also, not a fan of the changes to Magus. The champions this item would benefit are already viable in the jungle, so why bother? All this does is kill off the few AP mages who actually can jungle outside of Fiddlesticks.
hope this gets traction: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/39lj4g/syndras_bugs_25_patches_and_more/
fucking fix her up riot
and give her a swimsuit skin to compensate for all the kills i've missed and all the times i've died because of your stupid e "nerfs"
procing lich bane is satisfying and you can fuck it up which is a net positive imo
i'll never use it so idrc but u know
fucking fix her up riot
and give her a swimsuit skin to compensate for all the kills i've missed and all the times i've died because of your stupid e "nerfs"
i duno, like, i think riot's pretty clear that they don't like ranged champions jungling, so i like the idea of magus, makes the item more interesting imo than just tons of ap
procing lich bane is satisfying and you can fuck it up which is a net positive imo
i'll never use it so idrc but u know
It's not really a tank vs. assassin thing, or an aoe vs. single target thing. Elise is bad because her numbers are bad and her mobility is dependent on other factors. Stuff like Gragas and Sejuani have a safety net with their dashes. Rek'sai has loads of utility in her vision, global ult, complete mobility/knockup. It's always bigger picture. There are strong non-tank junglers like Nidalee and Shaco, and there are weak AOE tank junglers like Rammus, Malphite, and Zac. I don't really understand why people would whine about the new Magus jungle item. The mana return on it is very beneficial to a number of AP junglers.
PhillipCostigan
Member
the new Dota 2 client overhaul stuff looks really nice. I still hope for the day where we get the client to match that quality level while retaining League's much better in-game UI/HUD/systems that are a lot better than Dota's.
My biggest grievance when it comes to League is the out-of-game experience and my biggest with Dota's is the in-game experience. I'd like to be able to enjoy both and for them to be a high-quality experience both in and out of game, but they still have a long way to go.
My biggest grievance when it comes to League is the out-of-game experience and my biggest with Dota's is the in-game experience. I'd like to be able to enjoy both and for them to be a high-quality experience both in and out of game, but they still have a long way to go.
Pretty much this.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
No fuk syndra fix yorick first kthx
Wolf Akela
Member
Runeglaive sounds better in every way than Magus except maybe Fiddle. Crap tons of CDR is not what AP Junglers because it just makes them go OOM faster. Chalice/Tear aren't exactly good pickups for junglers.
yeah the client looks really good, i like how they streamlined it a lot
i still hope that when riot makes the new client they keep it minimal and simple
i don't care for guides inside the game or a wiki or whatever
i just want an easy, fast and pretty way to do runes and masteries, create a group, buy skins and start a game
yorick is gonna be abandoned until he gets a rework
not too difficult to fix syndra, or at least put her back into an acceptable state
just revert the random stupid nerfs they gave them
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They're probably going to wait until the skillshot rework or w/e that is before they fix her. Since she's just skillshots.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Switching to Heroes of the Storm.
....Wait why are we switching?
....Wait why are we switching?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's a good way to start getting points for my statue.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
5 man draft is for nerds
you're the biggest nerd here
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
I'll be on mumble, I'm wrecking nerds on LAN atm.
i wonder why is it that valve can pull off a new client quicker than league
i mean, while riot sure is slow, they do get a lot of shit done, like tons of patches, events, lcs, new map, game modes, now new ui, etc., so it's not like the game's left to rot or anything
so is it the playerbase being this huge that prohibitive for something like the new client?
i mean they're slowly doing small upgrades like the launcher thing, now being able to see detailed match history in the client and stuff, but feels like upgrading the potato client is kind of a waste of time
like just having the exact same functionality as potato client, just working properly and looking less like 3 clients fused together.
maybe being able to reorganize runes and masteries, and be able to make a wishlist would be like enough new features for most ppl to be happy
i mean, while riot sure is slow, they do get a lot of shit done, like tons of patches, events, lcs, new map, game modes, now new ui, etc., so it's not like the game's left to rot or anything
so is it the playerbase being this huge that prohibitive for something like the new client?
i mean they're slowly doing small upgrades like the launcher thing, now being able to see detailed match history in the client and stuff, but feels like upgrading the potato client is kind of a waste of time
like just having the exact same functionality as potato client, just working properly and looking less like 3 clients fused together.
maybe being able to reorganize runes and masteries, and be able to make a wishlist would be like enough new features for most ppl to be happy
Internet finally decided to stop shitting itself for the first time in 2 weeks. Time for some League.
My guess is 2 things:
1. LoL is currently made out of spaghetti code that makes everything difficult to code and program in game. When one thing gets fixed, another might become broken and so one. The only way to get rid of that would to do a full on code overhaul, but there's no telling how long that would take.
2. Lack of direction as a company. IMO Riot feels very unfocused in what kinds of big jobs they want to do before the next year. Focusing on one thing at a time and using resources on that would get many major issues fixed.
My guess is 2 things:
1. LoL is currently made out of spaghetti code that makes everything difficult to code and program in game. When one thing gets fixed, another might become broken and so one. The only way to get rid of that would to do a full on code overhaul, but there's no telling how long that would take.
2. Lack of direction as a company. IMO Riot feels very unfocused in what kinds of big jobs they want to do before the next year. Focusing on one thing at a time and using resources on that would get many major issues fixed.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They don't really do events anymore, LCS is probably managed by something that isn't the dev team, patches are....well they're not that great. Case in point-Cait and Jayce getting broke this patch cycle, Syndra being broken, and having to constantly patch up and down.
New map and new UI....
....It's their philosophy. They drip feed things, little by little. What was it, new map, then they slowly did the texture character updates little by little, now we're getting a new UI after 4 years(And after the godawful moving of the buffs to the left side.)
They just drip feed. DotA in comparison, has no PBE, they don't constantly patch, and they're barely remaking the map and overhauling the graphics/Client. And that games been out less than League(Officially atleast).
This is what I can say, the different between the two-
League constantly drips 'content'. This creates the psychological effect of 'Wow this is practically new!' every patch cycle. It makes you feel like you're getting something updated content when it's just a few numbers moved around. The only major overhauls they seem to do that they really sit on, for the last few years, are the jungle changes. We've had how many machetes and how many lanterns and how many different buffs through the jungle?
DotA on the other hand, let's things sit for a while. Their patch cycles are about...5-6 times longer than League. These patches are also more beefy and more positive for the game overall. The last patch they had, they fundamentally changed alot of the things in the game, added new items, shifted everything around. Granted Riot DOES do a big patch before every new season, BUT, for the last few years it seems to be mostly 'jungle' patches. I mean, the jungles constantly been changing more than the actual meta.
It's the difference in Philosophy, I suppose. Riot is very 'hands on', constantly changing things that don't meet their expectations, instead of letting something sit and simmer. This is why Hecarim might be completely OP for a few patches, or now Ryze is completely OP until his upcoming nerf. Valve on the other hand, let's things sit.
...Basically Riot keeps taking out that chicken from the oven before it's time, and Valve lets it actually cook.
This is probably why the overhaul for league took a long ass times(I remember in what, 2011 there were whisperings of a texture update coming out? And it took a full 3-4 years for it to come out? Because they constantly keep releasing skins and changing things around. Valve meanwhile has a mostly hands-off philosophy on their cosmetics, since players can 'vote in' through their workshop model, and they tend to release sparse updates of cosmetics.
....In other words, Riot has a fast cycle of things, that gives them little time to do big things in between those cycles. Valve takes a much longer cycle, leaving them alot of time to do big things when they do eventually come out.
Boy this came out to be a rant.
Edit-Also it's why Blizzard and Valve have HUGE Beta/Alpha cycles for their games. So they can work out any UI/Map/Whatever kinks out and THEN focus on the actual content. The beta for League didn't last nearly as long as the ones for HotS/DotA 2, which is why...League is a completely different game than the Beta League was.
Ritos a young company, TomShow is on point that they have no direciton.
Wolf Akela
Member
League is built on top of spaghetti code. Rito was a pretty small team waaaaay back then, so thoughts on enforcing great programming practices and scalability wasn't something that would be on top of the list. Getting something to work would be more important.
If there was "League Reborn", they'd have to do the clients from ground up. They can't do certain things because of legacy code. I remember they said they couldn't do mana displays on ability icons because the code wasn't built that way. They would need to create new icons for each mana cost of each ability. If mana costs were ever changed, they'd have to redo the icons again.
Dota used to be held back by constraints. WC3 engine didn't support CDR, though thankfully Icefrog finally realized that he can do that in one of the recent big Dota 2 patches that introduced both CDR and Spellvamp.
Honestly, I'd love to see Rito talk about a roadmap plan for League for the next years.
If there was "League Reborn", they'd have to do the clients from ground up. They can't do certain things because of legacy code. I remember they said they couldn't do mana displays on ability icons because the code wasn't built that way. They would need to create new icons for each mana cost of each ability. If mana costs were ever changed, they'd have to redo the icons again.
Dota used to be held back by constraints. WC3 engine didn't support CDR, though thankfully Icefrog finally realized that he can do that in one of the recent big Dota 2 patches that introduced both CDR and Spellvamp.
Honestly, I'd love to see Rito talk about a roadmap plan for League for the next years.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The spaghetti code...that's one way to put it. They definitely suffer from it, and the way I see it the UI changes, the upgraded textures, the new map...they're building it all on top of the code they have. Sooner or later it'll collapse on itself. They have mentioned that they're slowly going back and making the old code up to date, but that ceiling will soon be reached where they can't change it anymore without building a new engine.
And fuck the air client.
And fuck the air client.
Drillbreak
Banned
What's stopping them from making a better client though?
For months (and years) people have been bitchin on reddit about how shit the client is (and rightfully so).
You'd think that the number 1 most popular game in the world could at least develop a new and improved client.
Didn't astralfoxy, one guy, get hired by Riot AND develop their own version of the client?
I mean, come on. There are so many glaring issues. Lack of a logout button, runes are buggy as fuck, and settings are saved locally and not per account? What?
For months (and years) people have been bitchin on reddit about how shit the client is (and rightfully so).
You'd think that the number 1 most popular game in the world could at least develop a new and improved client.
Didn't astralfoxy, one guy, get hired by Riot AND develop their own version of the client?
I mean, come on. There are so many glaring issues. Lack of a logout button, runes are buggy as fuck, and settings are saved locally and not per account? What?
Wolf Akela
Member
Stability. In business, ensuring the uptime of your service is more important than everything else. The size of League just emphasizes its importance.
What they can do is be building a new client on the side, but it's easier said than done. Apart from the cost of hiring a new team, you'll also have to coordinate changes between old and new client. Like, maybe they'll introduce a new mechanic in the game (think Bard portal, Yasuo/Braum wall, something new, etc). Both would have to incorporate that in their development pipeline. Old client team will kludge together the code, while new client team will have to fit that in somewhere in their development timeline (when?). Maybe the mechanic is so unique they'll need to rewrite some of what they've already done and modify current plans, which delays the new client even more.
Also, the thing with third party stuff is that while it may work now, there are probably nuisances and certain plans in the future that the third party developer wouldn't know about.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Months? Reddit? Try fucking years. Air Client is and will continue to be a disaster. It's so damn glitchy and buggy and it's like fucking hell riot just make a fullscreen client I don't care.(Unless you meant their Engine, which Wolf seems to be talking about)
Drillbreak
Banned
But how do the guys over at Valve do it so easily? The magic of the Source engine?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's the clincher. Source is extremely malleable, as an engine. Source however, has its limitations, but the original engine is so damn malleable it's been good for the past...12 years or so. Same with the Unreal Engine 3, again up to a limit. Source 2 however, the magical part, is that it's compatible with source files, so porting things from Source 1 to Source 2 and then updating the original Source files to look better is alot simpler than say, having to rebuild the original code, which is seemingly what Riots been doing. This is probably because they refused to base League upon an existing engine, and kinda built the game from scratch. Building your own engine is extremely costly and well..it can be disastrous. It's why alotta games base their games off existing engines-Source games are well...source game, you have Cryoengine games, you have the engine that Ubi uses for their Assassins Creed games, Foxengine for MGSV(Sadly this engine will probably be abandoned because Konami is moving away from games), the Call of Duty engines are based of Id Tech 3, and it's been extremely heavily modified through subsequent game iterations(this is why all the games look/feel the same.)
So Riots issue is that....well, their engine. If they're going back and updating the code so that it can actually support the new things they're doing(I feel I've seen them say 'We had to go and rehaul some old code to get this feature to work!' alot.), it means that their original engine is probably unstable.
Also I found this choice quote-
They probably do the same with skins. It'd make alottttta freaking sense.
Wolf Akela
Member
I can only imagine. Source engine might have been better designed (and have better modularity) from the start, since it was supposed to power Valve's different games. There are actually many versions/forks of Source by now. It was also done by more experienced people. Titanfall runs on a heavily-modified Source engine.
In contrast, League's engine was built just for League. They probably never imagined that the game would blow up this big. You can tell they just wanted to get a working product out, given the craptastic quality of the original skins/recolors. I think League didn't even have ranked for a while? When you're a small company, it's not unexpected to cut a lot of corners.
And yeah, like Breezy mentioned, building your own engine can be disastrous. Just look at FFXIII's development. Crystal Tools kept getting delayed on top of very poor documentation. What happened was that much of the game's assets were already done when they started coding the game itself, so the game was reeeeally delayed. They already ditched the engine.
Not defending Rito here in any way.
Pull out that laptop and play on a touchpad like a man
killatopak
Gold Member
Played on a touch pad a few games before. Just Co-op vs AI though.
Mister Negative
Member
Yeah, I think what people forget about Riot is that they were a small company that happened to have their game become the biggest one in the world. So in a sense they're still trying to catch up.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The one thing they need to do is stop the whole 'let the whole company decide what to do' next. Get some proper management, get some goals. Not just vote on the next thing to do.
Mister Negative
Member
The thing is, they've probably pored over it a trillion times, and decided that the best thing for *business* is to keep going the way they're going. Is it the best thing for the health of the game? No. But the revenue stream is incredible, and it takes a manager with a lot of balls to shift focus like that when you're raking in the cash.
It's one thing to say "you have to think long term" when you're reading an HBS case, it's another to put it into practice.
It's never been gone. You can always jungle Karma, she has a really good clear speed if you kite well and run cdr blues
Mister Negative
Member
I've always had an aversion to champs that take a lot of effort to clear camps effectively. Like, with Vi you Q in, and mash E off cooldown. It's why I don't play Zac. Clearing camps is just tedious because you have to walk around and pick up your blobs and stuff. Same with Olaf, you have to run around and pick up your axe.
I'm just lazy is the problem, tbh
Cool. Been wanting to mess around with it since the changes but haven't had the chance
I'm still really not used to the leash changes either. They fuck me up pretty often actually.
Drillbreak
Banned
Anyone here seen Akame ga Kill?
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