• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII |OT| Toriyama's Bizarre Adventure

njean777

Member
I must be the only one who likes the religious angle to the story. Religion in real world and game worlds is fascinating to me.

Also where do I get my DLC for the cloud stuff? They never gave it to me in the game, is it through a menu or do they give it to me later while playing the game?
 

Shinta

Banned
I must be the only one who likes the religious angle to the story. Religion in real world and game worlds is fascinating to me.

Also where do I get my DLC for the cloud stuff? They never gave it to me in the game, is it through a menu or do they give it to me later while playing the game?

I love it too. That's why X and XIII have awesome worlds in my opinion that really interest me.

I think it's a better angle than politics. I'm actually a political junkie in real life, but an atheist. But in games I find political storylines rarely grab me, but the religious themed ones always do.
 
I love it too. That's why X and XIII have awesome worlds in my opinion that really interest me.

I think it's a better angle than politics. I'm actually a political junkie in real life, but an atheist. But in games I find political storylines rarely grab me, but the religious themed ones always do.

Then FFXV should be an interesting mix of both for you...
 

Shinta

Banned
Then FFXV should be an interesting mix of both for you...

Yep, that's true. I hadn't really connected the dots on that.

I'm sure I'm going to love XV. But I'm still waiting for fictional video game politics that actually keep my attention. Hopefully XV will be the one.

Movies have pulled it off for me, and Game of Thrones definitely does, and it is also a heavy mix of both religion and politics.
 
I must be the only one who likes the religious angle to the story. Religion in real world and game worlds is fascinating to me.

I'm with you. I'm still early, but I like how they just refer to Bhunivelze as "God".

Also, I have a question regarding the mythology of the XIII series. Semi spoilers for the mythology background (no spoilers from Lightning Returns, but I'll cover this up just in case):
Do the people of Nova Chrysallis ever mention the fact that Bhunivelze "killed" his mother? Or do they kind of ignorantly sweep that under the rug? Also, wouldn't that make Mwynn the highest rank God? Who was her "husband"? What ever happened to Mywnn? Wasn't Lindzei looking for her in Vallhalla, and when she was found, Bhunivelze would reawaken? What made him reawaken? Are these ever addressed?
 

Riposte

Member
FFXIV:ARR praise is weird to me.

As you mention, the quest design is TERRIBLE. It is often "go to this place on the other side of the world for a 5 sentence discussion about something" followed by "go back to where you were, on the other side of the world, for another 5 sentence discussion."

And in terms of story there is basically nothing but boring filler from 1-49 and like 92% of the story is packed in a few dungeons. And the villains up to it have absolutely no development or anything. If you only played ARR you would have no idea who any of the Scions are or what that group is about/why it exists as it does. But the story is put up as like the bestest thing to come out of Final Fantasy in a long time.

FFXIV 1.0 - 1.23 had a better story.

I agree completely. I would add that the lore and the characters, including the villains, are all potentially great (Eorzea is arguably the most-realized setting in a FF, if not the only one brave enough to detail more adult/gritty aspects), but get buried under the game's poor plot, pacing, and content. (This is not getting into how much the game's verisimilitude and feel was sacrificed for tacky MMO/F2P-isms or more action-y play.)

They really fucked up by stepping away from the FFXI/1.23 model of having a single-player quality "campaign" separate from the fodder. This time you can't point at the "missions" and say "well, yeah, it is a grindy MMO, but look at this string of episodic content and tell me it doesn't provide a (multiplayer) "FINAL FANTASY" experience"; in ARR the main scenario "quests" are so deeply integrated to the terrible MMO tropes and filler, that trying to sell it as a traditional Final Fantasy would be like trying to sell Breath of Fire VI as a traditional BoF. Everything is sacrificed for the solo player treadmill then pushed into the endgame treadmill. If a mainline Final Fantasy so much as dared to have the narrative and content work the way it does in ARR even at level 45, it would make the XIII's series reception look like a parade. The content is not only disposable, it's forgettable. How can you remember, when you have a main scenario quest log with over a hundred puny quests by the time you clear the first campaign? Normal quests, once few and meant to be enjoyable/immersing in themselves, are now what guidleves were (no surprise they struggle to find a use for this content) and their lore is about as engaging those were, hit-or-miss humor aside. FATEs factor into this, but there's just too much to say about them to fit it here.

It's too bad, because you can see internal fighting within the game's design ethos. On one hand, you have a successor to Chains of Promathia and the later half of FFXIV's meteor storyline with level caps, dungeons (though a little too puny at times), and, especially, primal battles. Despite that, you also have the pointless solo, cap-free exp-building fodder that you are doing even after you've gone so far as to slay Titan and Garuda. The capped solo instances were promising in beta, but they nerfed it to hell and for all intents and purposes, there's no difference the fodder and these "boss fights". In the beta people remembered the tactics/special moves used by these story bosses and the strict tactics required to beat; that's gone now, restricted to dungeons and primal battles you face once in awhile. So the game has you triumph these relatively tough challenges (in the case of primals) and once you complete one, what do you get do? Well, it's back to collecting soup ingredients and pottery for the next one in 5-10 hours. The quests you're doing right before and between the final two dungeons are more or less exactly in the same as the ones you are doing at level 1 and 2 in terms of how effortless and non-sequitur they are. I refuse to believe Lightning Returns even attempts to be that ridiculous. EDIT: You can't even say "at least FFXIV doesn't have Lightning".
 

Gaz_RB

Member
I must be the only one who likes the religious angle to the story. Religion in real world and game worlds is fascinating to me.

Also where do I get my DLC for the cloud stuff? They never gave it to me in the game, is it through a menu or do they give it to me later while playing the game?

After you get to the ark, you can hit triangle and go to the "rewards bazaar" or something like that. it should be in there, if it's not floating in a box around the ark.
 

njean777

Member
So I am at a weird point, I did all the side quests I can do in Luxerion and now have to wait till 12am for the last passcode, should I just wait it out or do something else it is 18:35 and have no clue if I should be doing something else while waiting (do not have any more side quests) or should I just follow the story and wait it out till 12am?
 

Shinta

Banned
I'm with you. I'm still early, but I like how they just refer to Bhunivelze as "God".

Also, I have a question regarding the mythology of the XIII series. Semi spoilers for the mythology background (no spoilers from Lightning Returns, but I'll cover this up just in case):
Do the people of Nova Chrysallis ever mention the fact that Bhunivelze "killed" his mother? Or do they kind of ignorantly sweep that under the rug? Also, wouldn't that make Mwynn the highest rank God? Who was her "husband"? What ever happened to Mywnn? Wasn't Lindzei looking for her in Vallhalla, and when she was found, Bhunivelze would reawaken? What made him reawaken? Are these ever addressed?

I'm still waiting for my CE to get here. It's out for delivery today. But I'm going to be spending lots of time thinking about questions just like these and seeing what hints are in the game.

Mwynn is technically the most powerful since she is the oldest known god(ess), or, she's on mostly an equal level with Bhunivelze. The mythology does state that Bhunivelze is the "brightest light" though. So, maybe he is just the strongest of their race of beings, and is particularly powerful and gifted, but selfish and has a tendency to want to dominate.While he's the most powerful, it comes off like he's definitely not the most wise, considering he didn't seem to understand the nature of the two dimensions, or what chaos was.

What are they? Are they actually gods or just a race of beings so far above us we don't understand them? Are there others, and where did Mwynn come from? We'll likely never get answers to those, but it's fun to think about.

I know Lindzei is mentioned more in the game but I'll have to get through it all before I see what there is.
 

Mik317

Member
About 1 hour in....


Just hit me that this could have been Valkyrie Profile 3. Based off the initial quest of saving souls and Lightning's costume.

It really feels like they just painted over VC3 with FFXIII cast lol
 

Nohar

Member
I know one valkyrie who would be jelly if she read this. Poor Hrist.

Edit: *in reaction to the post below* Oh my God
 

HeelPower

Member
Guys uh...are the quests never marked on the map ?

Am I doing something wrong or do I zealously have to waste time searching for items or NPCs ? I would be ok with that if the game didn't have such a strict time limit.

So far the only thing I see marked are the main quests....

Its getting unnecessarily hard to get a simple quest done.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Guys uh...are the quests never marked on the map ?

Am I doing something wrong or do I zealously have to waste time searching for items or NPCs ? I would be ok with that if the game didn't have such a strict time limit.

So far the only thing I see marked are the main quests....

Not the side quests, no.
 

Shinta

Banned
Guys uh...are the quests never marked on the map ?

Am I doing something wrong or do I zealously have to waste time searching for items or NPCs ? I would be ok with that if the game didn't have such a strict time limit.

So far the only thing I see marked are the main quests....

Its getting unnecessarily hard to get a simple quest done.

My CE strategy guide gets here today too. Awww yeah.
 
Funny enough, LR is probably the most straight forward of the three games (it literally spells everything out for you. Hell, sometimes it literally repeats the same information twice in back to back cutscenes in the most obvious ways possible), yet it is my least favorite of the three.
 

HeelPower

Member
Not the side quests, no.

ok seriously what were they thinking ?

Every game with that many quests has to have some quest tracking system and a list from which you can prioritize what quest to mark on the map.Especially with such a time limit.

I wasted so much time trying to get a mandragora root for a certain NPC...

People above have no right to complain about ARR , you can intuitively track your quests.
 

MarkusRJR

Member
I'm with you. I'm still early, but I like how they just refer to Bhunivelze as "God".

Also, I have a question regarding the mythology of the XIII series. Semi spoilers for the mythology background (no spoilers from Lightning Returns, but I'll cover this up just in case):
Do the people of Nova Chrysallis ever mention the fact that Bhunivelze "killed" his mother? Or do they kind of ignorantly sweep that under the rug? Also, wouldn't that make Mwynn the highest rank God? Who was her "husband"? What ever happened to Mywnn? Wasn't Lindzei looking for her in Vallhalla, and when she was found, Bhunivelze would reawaken? What made him reawaken? Are these ever addressed?
As far as I remember, after being killed and sent to the other side, Mwynn ends up holding back the chaos there. Inevitably she ends up being consumed by it however, but only after Etro enters the other side and is given the job as her replacement. Basically both her and Etro are now dead.
 

Blu(e)

Member
The time to get the free japanese voice DLC is now, right? Regardless if one purchases the game now or later.
Yes. Just go to the store and "download" it to get it attached to your account. It's only free this week so don't wait too long.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
ok seriously what were they thinking ?

Every game with that many quests has to have some quest tracking system and a list from which you can't prioritize what quest to mark on the map.Especially with such a time limit.

I wasted so much time trying to get a mandragora root for a certain NPC...

People above have no right to complain about ARR , you can intuitively track your quests.

It's a pretty big problem, imo, because you get very little direction on where to go. So coupled with the time element you waste too much time trying to find objectives and it can become frustrating - especially when certain items or NPCs are only available at certain times of the day.
 
ok seriously what were they thinking ?

Every game with that many quests has to have some quest tracking system and a list from which you can't prioritize what quest to mark on the map.Especially with such a time limit.

I wasted so much time trying to get a mandragora root for a certain NPC...

People above have no right to complain about ARR , you can intuitively track your quests.

This is why I will likely use a walkthrough for doing sidequests. If the game has no real quest tracking system AND has a time limit, it's just asking you to use a guide. I mean, if the game wants to do MMO-style quests, at least have the same conveniences please...
 

Gaz_RB

Member
So I am at a weird point, I did all the side quests I can do in Luxerion and now have to wait till 12am for the last passcode, should I just wait it out or do something else it is 18:35 and have no clue if I should be doing something else while waiting (do not have any more side quests) or should I just follow the story and wait it out till 12am?

I'd suggest taking the train to the Wildlands or something. It's really easy to teleport back when you need to.
 

MCD

Junior Member
Ultimately I liked 13-2 the most.

Even original 13 is better. Fetch quests with no map tracking. No EXP leveling system so you are forced to do said fetch quests just to be even with level 1 monsters. Time system because...derp, we can't be assed to make a full RPG so please understand.

And nothing innovative about the battle system so far. In fact, it's not fun with only one character.

I'm just gonna ride this just to see how this all ends.
 
I only just finished the main quest in Lux but I really don't know what to think about this game besides let down. I really enjoy the battle system on normal and the messed up story is still nice to watch play out even though its pretty messed up.

I really hate the new large open towns, Lux felt so empty and just a lot of wasted space. I also am hating the quest system a lot more than I thought. I just want to continue with the main story for my first play through and do the side crap on my 2nd playthrough when I finish doing trophies. To do so the damn game forces me to go to the inn every 10 minutes to advance 6 hours instead of afking in town waiting for the time to go by. It feels like a MMO on a dead realm. And wtf it looks so bad.
 

Synless

Member
I came home and my wife gifted me a badass Play Arts Lightning figure. I was not only surprised by it as I had never mentioned wanting one, but more impressed my wife bought me a game figurine and an expensive one at that, just because.
 

HeelPower

Member
It's a pretty big problem, imo, because you get very little direction on where to go. So coupled with the time element you waste too much time trying to find objectives and it can become frustrating - especially when certain items or NPCs are only available at certain times of the day.

Absolutely agree.Its shocking to me that it was designed this way.The worlds are still big and you can waste alot of time doing menial stuff.The game doesn't even want you to be efficient.

Idk why in XIII series for every step forward you take a step back in someway.

LR has better NPC dialogues and side stories but mechanically are worse than XIII-2.

I am just gonna go forward with main quests and do the rest as I find them.
 

aravuus

Member
This is why I will likely use a walkthrough for doing sidequests. If the game has no real quest tracking system AND has a time limit, it's just asking you to use a guide. I mean, if the game wants to do MMO-style quests, at least have the same conveniences please...

No quest tracking is fucking bullshit, please tell me there's a proper guide for the sidequests somewhere already?
 

HeelPower

Member
No quest tracking is fucking bullshit, please tell me there's a proper guide for the sidequests somewhere already?

Go find me these three items...good luck running against the clock with no instructions whatsoever.

Pretty baffling with time limit +essential for leveling up.
 
No quest tracking is fucking bullshit, please tell me there's a proper guide for the sidequests somewhere already?

I mean, there is quest tracking in terms of showing you all the quests you have in a list and saying what to do, but you can't like.. "focus" on one quest and mark it on your map like in other RPGs. If the game had no time limit, I wouldn't care - exploring the world at my own pace discovering quests and completing them would be fun/fine. But not with the time limit, no matter how lenient it is.
 

Sioen

Member
Getting this game on friday, getting a bit scared the game will be too difficult with the time limit and the no quest tracking.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
do all Canadian copies have that big bilingual Cloud DLC logo on the front cover (PS3 version)? EB and Best buy seem to carry nothing but that version
 

aravuus

Member
I mean, there is quest tracking in terms of showing you all the quests you have in a list and saying what to do, but you can't like.. "focus" on one quest and mark it on your map like in other RPGs. If the game had no time limit, I wouldn't care - exploring the world at my own pace discovering quests and completing them would be fun/fine. But not with the time limit, no matter how lenient it is.

Alright, so at least it's not that bad. Still pretty horrible though, I'll be sure to keep a walkthrough close if I can find one.

I remember reading accumulating something-something points was easy enough on Easy Mode to just practically forget about the time limit system though? Like, is there an ability that lets you rewind or freeze the time, and Easy Mode gives you lots of ability points to use it all the time?
 

ironcreed

Banned
It's a pretty big problem, imo, because you get very little direction on where to go. So coupled with the time element you waste too much time trying to find objectives and it can become frustrating - especially when certain items or NPCs are only available at certain times of the day.

I'll agree with you on that one. I have a couple of side quests where I just don't know where to go and I'm kind of scared that I will waste too much time running around trying to figure it out. One quest is the same that HeelPower was having trouble with and the other is finding the doll for some little girl around the North Station.
 

HeelPower

Member
I'll agree with you on that one. I have a couple of side quests where I just don't know where to go and I'm kind of scared that I will waste too much time running around trying to figure it out. One quest is the same that HeelPower was having trouble with and the other is finding the doll for some little girl around the North Station.

Go find my carbuncle doll.....

Same here man.
 
Go find me these three items...good luck running against the clock with no instructions whatsoever.

Pretty baffling with time limit +essential for leveling up.

Lol. I know what quest you're talking about (
the one about an ill father and you need to get three items to make the medicine
)

The funny thing is none of this would actually be a problem had there not been a ticking time bomb at all times and there being areas you get locked out of just cause.

Making an open world RPG and putting timed doors/gates and a time limit on the game is the most counter intuitive thing SE has ever done. Period.

I'll agree with you on that one. I have a couple of side quests where I just don't know where to go and I'm kind of scared that I will waste too much time running around trying to figure it out. One quest is the same that HeelPower was having trouble with and the other is finding the doll for some little girl around the North Station.

Be careful
not to give her the wrong doll
. I've seen people do it. One of the first side quests and the game tries to trick you and trip you up. Not cool.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Go find my carbuncle doll.....

Same here man.

I love the game for the most part, but feel like I am being pulled in separate directions. Save souls by doing side quests in these big ass areas with no indication of where to go, but you are in a race against the clock doing the main quests. I'll probably end up failing without help and will have to start again with my upgrades. Come to think of it, it kind of looks like they want this to happen until you memorize everything and find the right balance. I would rather they just let me enjoy the world at my leisure, while only advancing the clock when I choose to advance the story.
 

HeelPower

Member
Lol. I know what quest you're talking about (
the one about an ill father and you need to get three items to make the medicine
)

The funny thing is none of this would actually be a problem had their not been a ticking time bomb at all times and there being areas you get locked out of just cause.

Making an open world RPG and putting timed doors/gates and a time limit on the game is the most counter intuitive thing SE has ever done. Period.

yeah that's the quest...I agree.I am just so shocked that they decided to do that.

I love the game for the most part, but feel like I am being pulled in separate directions. Save souls by doing side quests in these big ass areas with no indication of where to go, but you are in a race against the clock doing the main quests. I'll probably end up failing without help and will have to start again with my upgrades. Come to think of it, it kind of looks like they want this to happen until you memorize everything and find the right balance. I would rather they just let me enjoy the world at my leisure, while only advancing the clock when I choose to advance the story.

yeah I guess that's what's gonna happen. I like many things about the game but I just wish the quests didn't drag like that.I want to feel like I am doing something worthwhile not just helplessly running around.If the main quests were like that it would be ok ,but its actually the sidequests and there are tons of them.
 
The thing is when you get pulled every which way to do quests under strict time conditions it's not fun and takes away any sense of freedom they wanted to give the player. It puts you on the edge all the time (this is not a good thing in this context).
 

Nohar

Member
Now that I think about it: if you begin some quests but you fail to complete them in due time, does the game warn you that said quests are "lost forever" (until New Game+), or do they stay on your journal?
 

rataven

Member
Funny enough, LR is probably the most straight forward of the three games (it literally spells everything out for you. Hell, sometimes it literally repeats the same information twice in back to back cutscenes in the most obvious ways possible), yet it is my least favorite of the three.

This is something that I'm finding frustrating as I get further into the game. Hope is constantly talking, ordering Lightning around, in some cases telling her exactly what to do or where to go. And while I realize the story randomly gifted Hope with all this knowledge to spew, Lightning is a grown ass women who can figure this stuff out on her own. She's not an idiot, and Hope treating her like one is starting to grate on me.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Be careful
not to give her the wrong doll
. I've seen people do it. One of the first side quests and the game tries to trick you and trip you up. Not cool.

LOL, pretty sinister. Which I am starting to think is the intent with some of the stuff in this game.

By the way, where the fuck is the doll?
 

Shinta

Banned
I love the game for the most part, but feel like I am being pulled in separate directions. Save souls by doing side quests in these big ass areas with no indication of where to go, but you are in a race against the clock doing the main quests. I'll probably end up failing without help and will have to start again with my upgrades. Come to think of it, it kind of looks like they want this to happen until you memorize everything and find the right balance. I would rather they just let me enjoy the world at my leisure, while only advancing the clock when I choose to advance the story.

That's exactly how the game was designed. It was going to be required to new game + the game a few times.

They added more time rewards for quests and the chronostasis ability late in development.

If you have to play again, don't stress out. And yeah, they want you to pick up as many quests as you can and then look at them and make time management decisions about the order you'll do them in, by doing things in similar areas grouped together.
 

HeelPower

Member
That's exactly how the game was designed. It was going to be required to new game + the game a few times.

They added more time rewards for quests and the chronostasis ability late in development.

If you have to play again, don't stress out. And yeah, they want you to pick up as many quests as you can and then look at them and make time management decisions about the order you'll do them in, by doing things in similar areas grouped together.

The battle system and abilties are just amazing and I love how the game can get punishing in battles.

You can't just go into any fight and expect to win.You gotta read opponents and respond to them and equip suitable abilities.

I am feeling a bit frustrated when the game doesn't want me to do quest ,but I guess I should open my mind to failure.

The first day in the game I didn't do anything substantial and it stung lol
 
Top Bottom