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LTTP: Star Wars 1-7 (Mainly Prequels-TFA)
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
- Status
Are... you joking? Haha
QuantumZebra
Member
TBH I thought Ewan was the only redeeming thing about the prequels (and McDiarmid hamming it up as Palpatine) - but I doubt he gave 2 shits about Star Wars then, and probably still doesn't now.
The hate the prequels got and how badly they've aged most likely soured him on the whole deal.
I retract my wanting an Obi Wan movie with him in it.
BFIB
Member
I also really like how in Episode II we are told that Sifo-Dyas had this secret plan right under the Republics nose and the Jedi Order and created the Clone Army, then its just tossed aside that he's dead and here's Darth Tyranus as the new apprentice, despite being older than Palpatine.
Pamplemousse
Member
Again with people putting Sith over Jedi? The writing is terrible in the prequels, with RotS being the worst offender. Cool imagery doesn't compensate for terrible writing. Anakin's turn is so poorly contrived that it's laughable.
QuantumZebra
Member
I can't fathom how anyone would put RotS over TFA or any of the OT.
The PT is so far below those 4 films they might as well be in a different genre (and almost seemed like they were, as an earlier poster mentioned).
Oh christ don't get me started on Count Dooku.
I seriously, truly, 100% wish they'd gone with the original idea of having Jar Jar be a Sith Lord in disguise (that theory was backed by Jar Jar's mocap/voice actor and Lucas himself at one point I believe). It would have actually made the PT somewhat coherent.
CortexVortex
Banned
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. The Force Awakens
3. A New Hope
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones
I'm happy that TFA rekindled my love for Star Wars.
2. The Force Awakens
3. A New Hope
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones
I'm happy that TFA rekindled my love for Star Wars.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I'd put TFA over all of the SW movies.
- Finn is the most interesting character in the series, and Boyega has the best performance in a SW movie
- Kylo Ren is a complex villain with obvious weaknesses (he's nowhere near as iconically powerful as Vader when he was introduced in ANH). The disrespect shown to Kylo Ren is understandable, as we learn that he's a pretender who is only advanced enough to abuse his few (albeit formidable) darkside powers, nowhere near 'there' yet
- acting across the board is superior to the other movies
- the world feels more established and lived in, it has the benefit of all of the foundation laid in the other movies and takes full advantage of it
- Finn is the most interesting character in the series, and Boyega has the best performance in a SW movie
- Kylo Ren is a complex villain with obvious weaknesses (he's nowhere near as iconically powerful as Vader when he was introduced in ANH). The disrespect shown to Kylo Ren is understandable, as we learn that he's a pretender who is only advanced enough to abuse his few (albeit formidable) darkside powers, nowhere near 'there' yet
- acting across the board is superior to the other movies
- the world feels more established and lived in, it has the benefit of all of the foundation laid in the other movies and takes full advantage of it
QuantumZebra
Member
I can definitely get on board with this. Rey is also >>>> Luke so far (except end of ROTJ Luke)
In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger "Yeah but they were all bad".
If you're more interested in establishing shots of environments and space politics than characters, humor and competently directed action then, yes, I can understand why someone would prefer TPM.
Hey Let me just remind you of the fact Kylo Ren killed Han Fucking Solo, not even Darth Vader was willing to kill his own flesh and blood, now just let that sink in for a minute, and this is only at the Start of what we see of Kylo's Journey, he's a Fucking Murderer, (okay so was Maul, but let me remind you it was only Qui Gon was who was killed by Maul, we didn't have had time to get attached to Qui Gon, whereas Kylo killed Han Solo, a beloved charachter of over 30 years)
Also let me remind you that Force Awakens was Written by Larry Kasdan, the same guy who wrote empire and jedi so he knows a thing or two about the charachters, did it have similar elements to A New Hope? Sure, but Kasdan didnt get a chance to write his take on a New Hope right? So you could look at it if you really wanted to and say now he did get his take on it and a damn good version of it too (personally i feel as do others though, it has elements of all 3 of the original trilogy films, plus it is its own thing)
Also let me remind you that Force Awakens was Written by Larry Kasdan, the same guy who wrote empire and jedi so he knows a thing or two about the charachters, did it have similar elements to A New Hope? Sure, but Kasdan didnt get a chance to write his take on a New Hope right? So you could look at it if you really wanted to and say now he did get his take on it and a damn good version of it too (personally i feel as do others though, it has elements of all 3 of the original trilogy films, plus it is its own thing)
TFA is cool in a sense that it's a love letter to anyone who saw the origional trilogy in cinemas as a 10 year old.
What it isn't effective as is a competant film. It fails to world build in a fundamental sense. Snoke and Klo Ren's arc make about as much sense as what happened on the outrigger in lost. Just like people origionally loved AotC because they were so blinded by hatred for episode 1. TFA isn't going to age well.
Edit: Poster Above, The Script for TFA was horrible. If that's larrys best work I'd rather have almost everyone else. The plot of the force awakens can be summed up in 1 sentence. No one can find Luke because R2D2 is being an Ass
What it isn't effective as is a competant film. It fails to world build in a fundamental sense. Snoke and Klo Ren's arc make about as much sense as what happened on the outrigger in lost. Just like people origionally loved AotC because they were so blinded by hatred for episode 1. TFA isn't going to age well.
Edit: Poster Above, The Script for TFA was horrible. If that's larrys best work I'd rather have almost everyone else. The plot of the force awakens can be summed up in 1 sentence. No one can find Luke because R2D2 is being an Ass
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
For sure, I didn't even mention how awesome Rey is. Best jedi character ever.
Sigh. This is where I tuned out.
1a - Return of the Jedi
1b - Empire Strikes Back
3 - The Force Awakens
4 - A New Hope
5 - Revenge of the Sith
6 - The Phantom Menace
7 - Attack of the Clones
TFA rekindled my love of the franchise as well and thankfully pulled us out of the George Lucas dark age.
Revenge of the Sith I think would be regarded higher if it didn't have to play catch up to make up for the shit the previous two movies failed to do, and also if it didn't awkwardly try to jam everyone into their places for Episode 4 in the last 20 minutes of the movie.
QuantumZebra
Member
I disagree wholeheartedly. TFA will age better than anything other than maybe ANH and ESB. RotJ's middle section drags it down overall, and the PT are a complete joke - they're unwatchable nowadays.
TFA is coherent, well-paced, well-acted, and is perhaps Harrison Ford's first convincing acting performance since the 90s.
..for you
After some pondering, (I've no nostalgia for OT and outside of ESB, always thought them to be plain bad movies) this is more or less my take too though TFA suffers from not having a moment of breather, laughable world building that stems from trying to open up an already finished story and just being a (much superior) retread of new hope.
1.TFA
2.Empire Strikes Back
3.Return of the Jedi
4.Revenge of the Sith
5.Phantom Menace
6.New Hope
7.Attack of the Clones.
Yes I put New Hope below Phantom Menace.
BFIB
Member
This makes no sense. In ANH we are given a glimpse into the universe, yet nothing is really explained there either. We know there's a force, we know that Obi Wan was a Jedi and so was Luke's father. We hear of an Emperor, but never see him. IV was designed to be told as a story already happening, we are just jumping in at that starting point.
In TFA, we know the Republic is back. The First Order rose from the ashes of the Empire. Luke was attempting to rebuild the Jedi Order and was betrayed by an apprentice. Snoke uses the dark side of the Force and got to young Ben early and seduced him to lead the Knights of Ren. All of this is explained in the film.
Rey was left behind on Jakku for a reason, that will most likely get a lot of development in VIII. How was it not a competent film? TFA was re-establishing us into the universe 30 years after the fall of the Empire. Its a world building film (and somewhat getting the train back on the tracks) and was written as such to be part love letter to the fans of the OT, and part world-building to establish VIII and IX.
Phantom Menace and (especially) Attack of the Clones are really hard to sit through these days, at least for me. With Phantom Menace I find myself just fast forwarding to the podrace and the Darth Maul fight and Attack of the Clones has nothing of value aside from the scene where Anakin goes ham on some sand people. I know it's entirely subjective but I have a hard time disagreeing with anyone who says the prequels are unwatchable these days. The only one I can sit through anymore is Revenge of the Sith, because that one at least has a noticable improvement from its two predecessors.
The best things the prequels did was give us the two Clone Wars cartoons.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Finn's story and humor alone makes TFA timeless. Everything about that character is awesome, from his origin to how naturally funny he is. Give him a lightsaber and he's cool with it, then he goes toe to toe with Han Solo with wisecracks and actually outdoes him. Amazing actor.
TDLink
Member
I definitely prefer characters, humour, and competently directed action over TPM. And I definitely prefer the OT movies to TPM. Although I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that TPM has absolutely none of those things. I am just saying I understand why TPM/the prequel Star Wars universe has its fans. And I don't necessarily disagree that I'd like to see more aliens in Star Wars. There's no reason those can't be good and well developed characters either. Stuff like the gungan city doesn't make TPM better than the OT but it's still interesting and cool design work.
Before Luke leaves Tatoine in ANH here's what we know.
1. There is a guy that wears black, his name is Darth Vader. He's bad. He captures a princess who is a member of the imperial senate (which means the Galaxy is ruled by an emperor) this woman is a spy for a resistance group against the empire and is carrying valuable information that they want back.
2. There was an event called the clone wars, where Luke Skywalkers father was a heroic Jedi knight. Luke's dad was also reckless and impulsive, character traits that are presently assigned to Luke
3. The rebellion regularly recruits pilots and Luke Skywalker wants to join up just like his friends. Luke is a qualified pilot.
4. Life is harsh under imperial rule. As soon as Luke realises the empire has killed the sand people he knows his family are dead. This is further shown when Luke and Obiwan get to mis eiesley looking for transport and it is locked down like a police state.
That's worl building.
In TFA's first hour. Klo Ren massacres a village. A random storm trooper turns against whoever it is that now has storm troopers. The Origins of the first order aren't really explained except with "look stormtroopers" then fin and Poe escape. Poe supposedly dies. Fin meets a random desert stranger, who mysteriously stumbles across a droid. (At least R2 was looking for Ben Kenobi in ANH) BB88 was just wandering randomly. They team up to escape the planet and just happen to steal the millennium falcon and then run into Han Solo doing a trade deal on a poor outer rim planet.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I have serious concern for anyone who puts RotS over RotJ.
Is watching two bored actors dancing with glowing batons really that appealing to some people?
Visually at least, TPM has aged the best of the prequels by far IMO.
The SFX of RotS and especially AotC are downright embarrassing now.
Is watching two bored actors dancing with glowing batons really that appealing to some people?
Visually at least, TPM has aged the best of the prequels by far IMO.
The SFX of RotS and especially AotC are downright embarrassing now.
Duane Cunningham
Member
1. Empire Strikes Back/A New Hope (tie)
3. Return of the Jedi/The Force Awakens (tie)
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Revenge of the Sith
When I saw each of the prequels in the theaters, I ranked them opposite, Sith best and TPM worst. But in the years since, I've really come to despise RotS. I actually can find more that I like about AotC.
3. Return of the Jedi/The Force Awakens (tie)
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Revenge of the Sith
When I saw each of the prequels in the theaters, I ranked them opposite, Sith best and TPM worst. But in the years since, I've really come to despise RotS. I actually can find more that I like about AotC.
Does this seriously need explanation? They use Stormtoopers, Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, and had access to old Imperial data and technology. How much more obvious does it need to be that these guys are Imperial remnants? It's even said in the second sentence of the opening crawl. My only complaint about the First Order is that they should simply still be called the Empire
old manatee
Banned
I felt like they glossed over this, too. They didn't look like the ragtag scraps of the Empire. They had that fully operational Nu Death Star and everything.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
I know this is one of the stranger list. Episode 7 is good but it felt far too samey. It's very rewatchable.
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
I know this is one of the stranger list. Episode 7 is good but it felt far too samey. It's very rewatchable.
I had a very distinct impression that the Republic/Resistance was underestimating the capabilities of the First Order. Look at Poe's face when they take him aboard the Star Destroyer, he has a pretty awed/stunned look on his face like he was impressed with the operation they had going on. And then absolutely nobody was expecting the First Order to be able to off the Republic Government so easily.
I thought the First Order was kind of supposed to parallel how America kind of viewed Al Queda before and after September 11th. The general public never believed they were capable of something to that scale until it actually happened.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
HEY, we're due for our semi-monthly rankings thing!
anyway, this is the absolutely 100% correct list
Great
1) The Empire Strikes Back
Very Good
2) Star Wars
3) The Force Awakens
Mediocre-to-okayish
4) Revenge of the Sith
5) Return of the Jedi
Bad
6) The Phantom Menace
Fucking Awful
7) Attack of the Clones
anyway, this is the absolutely 100% correct list
Great
1) The Empire Strikes Back
Very Good
2) Star Wars
3) The Force Awakens
Mediocre-to-okayish
4) Revenge of the Sith
5) Return of the Jedi
Bad
6) The Phantom Menace
Fucking Awful
7) Attack of the Clones
I'm going to +1 this. Even at its lowest points Jedi is a better movie than Sith is. ROTS is too bogged down by trying to make up for the failures of the previous two movies while also trying to set up everything for A New Hope. Jedi also handles Vader turning to the light side way better than Sith handles Anakin turning to the dark side.
Not you too...
Dash_Riprock
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It happens to everyone eventually, often multiple times
And then you realize I have a point and you get upset.
Yeah I'm with the OP mostly.
TFA turned me off any new Star Wars movies. At least with the prequels I can turn off my brain and watch aliens, trade agreements, cool lightsaber battles, they have that Star Wars vibe, etc.. Enjoyable to dip in and watch.
TFA jumped the shark for me into parody amongst other things. Bleh...
TFA turned me off any new Star Wars movies. At least with the prequels I can turn off my brain and watch aliens, trade agreements, cool lightsaber battles, they have that Star Wars vibe, etc.. Enjoyable to dip in and watch.
TFA jumped the shark for me into parody amongst other things. Bleh...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Huh
True Savior
Member
OP ranking is salvageable. Just switch Phantom Menace with Force Awakens
BudokaiMR2
Member
I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone could seriously put ROTS over ROTJ. How is this possible? Every single serious/emotional scene is flubbed with hammy and wooden acting, not to mention the atrocious writing. Lots of potential squandered via incompetent directing/screenwriting. The only solid scenes in the entire prequels, I'd say, are the theater scene with Anakin/Palp and the chosen one scene with Obi/Anakin (some would disagree here). The rest is garbage.
And anyone telling themselves the prequels have aged well is absolutely delusional. The CGI alone is totally laughable now, maybe aside from some work in EP 3.
And anyone telling themselves the prequels have aged well is absolutely delusional. The CGI alone is totally laughable now, maybe aside from some work in EP 3.
Discotheque
Banned
ESB
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
TPM - Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
TPM - Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Chezzymann
Member
I never understood why people think Ren is a lightsaber master. Yeah he stopped a projectile which is really impressive but we never had an idea of how good he was with a lightsaber outside of him angrily slashing up that control panel. Our only exposure to it is the fight at the end, and it seems like he's still learning when it comes to lightsaber fights.
The bad guy doesn't always have to be a really powerful expert.
The bad guy doesn't always have to be a really powerful expert.
Pretty astounding how many people completely misread Kylo Ren's character. He's not supposed to be Vader. He's a poor imitation, and it makes him angry. He's like metacommentary on the Star Wars fanbase, only some of the fans don't realize it. Which only reinforces that commentary.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
I love how everyone who doesn't like TFA is apparently "missing the point".
The fact that people have to go so far to explain some of the anomalies in the plot/characters should say enough.
Whatever. Keep riding that hype train.
The fact that people have to go so far to explain some of the anomalies in the plot/characters should say enough.
Whatever. Keep riding that hype train.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Yeah, aside from the scenes you mentioned the rest of the movie is really bland and has some really iffy writing and character decisions. Anakin going from "what have I done!?" to murdering children in 8 minutes of screen time. Mace confronting Palpatine in private and walking into a situation that could clearly frame the Jedi. Yoda abruptly deciding "into exile, I must go" because he gets tired of playing CG Extreme Senate Volleyball with Palpatine.
Sith is a step up from the other prequels but it's still a hot mess.
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
-
-
-
-
5. ROTS
6.TPM
-
-
-
7.AOTC
The prequels were simply trash, including RoTS. Just take a look at Palpatine vs Windu and all the stupid faces Palpatine was making as awkward CGI models were going all over the place. The final battle between Obi Wan and Anakin was pretty awful as well. You had them swinging over lava pits, or riding on robot drones swinging light sticks at each other. Even worse is how they look today, because the CGI isn't holding up well at all. The acting was terrible (per usual within the prequels) and the plot had holes big enough to drive trucks through. The plot moves like a series of bullet points with no regards to pacing or sense of time. The Clone Wars are abruptly ended after Doku and Grevious are dispatched (and completely wasted as characters). Anakin instantly goes from being a noble jedi to a Sith lord with little development or nuance. He literally goes from a smoldering heap right into the Vader costume. Padme goes from being pregnant to having children in a matter of hours to simply dying (undermining a plot point from the OT). I simply can't see how anyone could ever like RotS (or any of the prequels) over TFA, much less anything in the OT.
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. ROTJ
-
-
-
-
5. ROTS
6.TPM
-
-
-
7.AOTC
The prequels were simply trash, including RoTS. Just take a look at Palpatine vs Windu and all the stupid faces Palpatine was making as awkward CGI models were going all over the place. The final battle between Obi Wan and Anakin was pretty awful as well. You had them swinging over lava pits, or riding on robot drones swinging light sticks at each other. Even worse is how they look today, because the CGI isn't holding up well at all. The acting was terrible (per usual within the prequels) and the plot had holes big enough to drive trucks through. The plot moves like a series of bullet points with no regards to pacing or sense of time. The Clone Wars are abruptly ended after Doku and Grevious are dispatched (and completely wasted as characters). Anakin instantly goes from being a noble jedi to a Sith lord with little development or nuance. He literally goes from a smoldering heap right into the Vader costume. Padme goes from being pregnant to having children in a matter of hours to simply dying (undermining a plot point from the OT). I simply can't see how anyone could ever like RotS (or any of the prequels) over TFA, much less anything in the OT.
Umm did you not get the extremely purposeful history repeating vibe they set.
This. To miss this is to miss what made the OT what it is. People just want black and white bad guys and anything deeper turns them into a pussy apparently.
Very disappointing to see this fly over so many heads.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
I just saw an incredibly lazy and utterly safe film that was too scared to take any chances in terms of artistry.
TDLink
Member
I honestly enjoyed the opening 20 minutes or so/up through Dooku being offed. It felt like a somewhat fun episode of Obi-Wan and Anakin truly acting like friends...something missing from literally the entire rest of the prequel trilogy and something I was looking forward to since ANH. Thankfully The Clone Wars gave us a lot more of that (and better done). But really those opening 20 minutes aren't bad.
The big problem with ROTS is it flubs the reason for Anakin's fall hard. Also the grievous side plot on Utapau is almost entirely pointless except as an excuse for Obi-Wan to be away from Coruscant when Anakin turns.
Tell me again about how A New Hope ends with Luke defeating a wounded Vader in a lightsaber duel or that Stormtrooper that defected from the Empire to help bring R2 to the Rebellion. Let me guess, the prequels were at least "original" even though Phantom Menace is far and away a bigger clone of A New Hope than Force Awakens is?
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