Uhhuh.
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LTTP: Star Wars 1-7 (Mainly Prequels-TFA)
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
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Discotheque
Banned
Those are specific details. The broad story beats were waaaaay too familiar though. The plans in a droid....being discovered by a luke analogy...that freaking death star attack plan scene
I had a lot of fun with the movie but it could have been better. I have way more faith in rian Johnson over Abrams in filmmaking too and now that the reintroduction to star wars franchise is out of the way the sequel will have room to really carve it's own identity hopefully
Or not. Either way we're gonna get a pretty fun sci fi trilogy. It won't be as divisive or hated as the prequels either. There's a level of oversight that ensures that can't happen
How the hell is Phantom Menace a far bigger clone of ANH than TFA? Literally the only thing they got in common plotwise is that both feature Tatooine and that Obi-Wan is in it. I'm not a prequel fan at all, but that statement is just weird.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
1. This happens in Return of the Jedi. The third film in the first trilogy. The CONCLUSION to the story. How is the next confrontation between Rey and Kylo Ren supposed to be interesting to watch when we've already seen Rey defeat him? It sucks out any of the tension.
2. We never see Finn act as a proper Stormtrooper. He has no real character arc, since he's painted as someone with a moral compass from the first time we see him in the film. When I remember his character, all I remember is his out-of-place comedy and buffoonery.The idea COULD have been executed more thoughtfully. Ideally, he would share more character traits with the Terminator than Jar Jar. But that's not what they did...
TDLink
Member
There's a victory ceremony at the end? I guess?
But overall yeah, how can anyone say TPM is even close to ANH in narrative, structure, characters...or anything.
Sephiroth503
Member
This is correct.
Cannot in any way understand RotS above any of the OT. Awful acting and writing.
- Princess Leia... I mean Queen Amidalla needs the help of a Jedi Knight to get her out of a crisis
- Jedi finds a boy named Skywalker on planet Tattooine
- Skywalker is fascinated with Jedi and ultimately wants to leave Tattooine to become one
- Skywalker is strong with The Force
- Jedi vows to train Skywalker to become a Jedi
- Said Jedi dies dramatically before being able to train Skywalker
- Surprise! Queen with goofy hair is actually someone who isn't afraid to take a blaster and get shit done
- Skywalker pilots a starfighter and blows up a big round space station all by himself to save a planet from certain doom
- Movie even ends with pretty much the same victory celebration scene
Kid on Tatooine just happens to be a powerful Jedi and ace pilot. Kid blows up big space station. Jedi mentor killed by Sith. Planetary royalty is rescued from imprisonment by Jedi.
That's about it I suppose.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
The overall plot has NO resemblance to A New Hope (Trade Negotiations!).
And no, I do not adore the prequels. But, they tried. They tried to do something different. They failed, yes. But they tried.
TFA doesn't even make the effort to do anything new, aside from minor character details that barely even shape their respective characters in believable ways.
I guess it is hard to put two and two together for some, Snoke saying they'll finish his training and Rey starting hers means they'll both be stronger for the next fight, doubt it'll go down the same as the first fight.
Always surprises me how little people actually pay attention to the movies they're moaning about.
This is how I personally rank them:
1. The Force Awakens
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. A New Hope
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones
TFA imo is the best star wars movie to date. Has the best fight choreography, variety of characters and the most interesting villain.
1. The Force Awakens
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. A New Hope
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones
TFA imo is the best star wars movie to date. Has the best fight choreography, variety of characters and the most interesting villain.
While I agree that the concept art was more ambitious than what we got in the film (which was still fantastic), these are the deeper and more defining aspects of TFA people even PURPOSEFULLY overlook in order to bash a film that easily separates itself from others in the saga.
It's just cool to hate it, as people have apparently figured out in the last month or two.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
This tired-ass idea again, huh? I'd actually argue that the people defending this film are paying too little attention...
The point I was getting at is that Rey and Kylo Ren's confrontation allows for few creative/interesting opportunities in their future confrontations. Imagine Luke and Vader fighting in A New Hope. It just doesn't belong in the first story of any trilogy. That's breaking the rules, cinematically-speaking. TFA blew its load.
Digital-Hero
Member
It would better served to thank Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan. Lucas only provided a broad story and apparently none of the true intricacies.
Pamplemousse
Member
So what you're saying is this gif was you reading my last post
I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one
How's that?
Or you could think outside the box a bit that what is introduced in the first film is only a small snippet of what is to come. Things like Snoke and the Knights of Ren are probably going to be a larger threat in the future films, doubt the whole trilogy is just the rebels vs Kylo Ren constantly.
Edit: Oh and I guarantee Phasma will be returning in a bigger role, she was wasted in TFA but I assume it was just to set up her personal vendetta against Finn.
Yeah, this is short sighted as hell. You have no idea what's planned for the next two movies, so maybe take a step back and see what happens before jumping to conclusions?
I've seen the movie 10 times now and I don't even think about its similarities because of all the deeper differences it has in respect to the other films in the trilogy.
I'm on these boards almost everyday talking about SW and TFA in a positive light. So it's entirely possible to get over the similarities and fully enjoy the movie as a sequel in a trilogy.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Perhaps it's possible that a group of people out there were legitimately let down by this film because they expect more from Star Wars than a shameless Episode IV Remake? Personally, I always enjoyed Star Wars for its unique ideas. Every Lucas-produced Star Wars film made the universe feel bigger. TFA fails at that. We see the same types of planets, ship designs, gear, etc. Perhaps I would have been more tolerant of this film if it greeted me with new aesthetic ideas, but it doesn't even bother.
What?! RotS above ESB?!
Just slightly beats it for me. It was a lot more epic even though the acting fell flat at times.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
It sounds to me that you're too passionate about Star Wars to even attempt to consider the possible negatives of the most recent release in the series that everyone and their mother has seen and generally enjoyed.
I get that most people wanted this film to be better than the prequels (myself included). But there are positives and negatives in everything. I do not think it is reasonable to look back at the prequels and say EVERYTHING about them was bad. It doesn't make for good debate, and it's frustrating to see people play that card.
Despite the things that I've said, there ARE things that I enjoyed about TFA. I enjoyed the small glimpse we got of Rey's life as a scavenger on Jakku, I enjoyed BB-8's inventive design.
But besides that? I honestly can't bring myself to enjoy any of the film's other aspects. It just didn't work upon initial viewing or any of my three other viewings.
DarkLordMalik
Member
No one mentions it but who the hell thought it was good idea to show the First Order as a bunch of Nazi-like army. I don't remember any similar scene in the prequels or the OT. How can be the fans fine with this move?
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
No one mentions it but who the hell thought it was good idea to show the First Order as a bunch of Nazi-like army. I don't remember any similar scene in the prequels or the OT. How can be the fans fine with this move?
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
You're pretty oblivious not to have noticed it in the OT then.
No one mentions it but who the hell thought it was good idea to show the First Order as a bunch of Nazi-like army. I don't remember any similar scene in the prequels or the OT. How can be the fans fine with this move?
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
And?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Is this the sound you make as you go slack and melt into the seat for a fun evening of brainlessness?
Seriously (ish) though, I don't see "I prefer the prequels because I don't have to think" as being an endorsement for either the prequels or watching movies in general.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Is it too much to want a film that works on its own and doesn't require me to imagine future events for it to make sense?
Ridiculous.
Off the top of my head, maybe when the Emperor arrives on the second Death Star?
What about Force Awakens doesn't work on its own?
BudokaiMR2
Member
No one mentions it but who the hell thought it was good idea to show the First Order as a bunch of Nazi-like army. I don't remember any similar scene in the prequels or the OT. How can be the fans fine with this move?
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
Dude.... It's always been like that. The word Stormtrooper itself predates the Nazi period back to WW1 but 'Storm Troops' are literally a part of German military history.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Looks like you left out the rest of my quote. Nice job literally twisting my words.
What exactly didn't make sense? Your arguments are going all over the place now, first it's disappointing that they've "blown their load" in the first film, now it doesn't make sense?
Also you skipped over me asking how people defending the film are paying less attention to the movie than those being critical of it? You'd clearly missed important dialogue in the film yet your response to that is that I'm the one not paying attention?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
More like I got rid of the unnecessary padding around your point.
Plus, yunno - comedy avatar quote.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Off the top of my head, maybe when the Emperor arrives on the second Death Star?
What about Force Awakens doesn't work on its own?
...
Almost every aspect of the film?
I simply do not have the time to go through every individual gripe I have with it (again), but if you looked at my post history, you'd see an abundance of arguments that I have made.
I agree with these, but I think TFA is slightly better than ROTJ. ROTJ is often weak throughout its run time and is saved by the incredible ending sequence. Jabba's palace is pretty good, but Luke going back to Degobah isn't as interesting this time and feels like an obligatory clarification of a few plot points. I honestly fast forward through pretty much all of the ewok stuff after the speeder bike chases (that and the awful new dance sequence) because it's so pointless and boring. The plot in general feels like it reuses a lot of the beats of the first two movies in uninteresting ways. Then you also have the downgraded acting, with pretty much every character missing the mark compared to the first two films.
I don't think TFA ever hits a high as good as the ending of ROTJ, but the film is more consistent and has better acting. The characters are all fresh and eager to play their roles. And even though the story is heavily recycled again, it does so in a more interesting way than ROTJ. ROTJ literally gave us the same death star again and told us it was "even more powerful," but never showed how. It was a throwaway line in the opening crawl, put there in a futile attempt to differentiate it from the first death star without actually doing anything in the story to back it up. Starkiller base is clearly a different weapon with more potential than the Death Star, even if it's the same basic premise. It's what the death star 2.0 in ROTJ should have been.
TFA also doesn't repeat a single world from the other films, even if some are similar, while ROTJ took us back to Tatooine and Degobah again. Endor was the only new world we saw, and it was squandered on ewoks. TFA delivered a lot more in terms of new worlds and aliens to see. People can say it's an unoriginal retread all they want, but it doesn't recycle elements as badly as ROTJ did.
Just my opinions, don't eviscerate me...
BFIB
Member
No one mentions it but who the hell thought it was good idea to show the First Order as a bunch of Nazi-like army. I don't remember any similar scene in the prequels or the OT. How can be the fans fine with this move?
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
It was all over the OT too, just more subtle.
The head is cut off the snake. What we have now is the worst of the remnants of the Empire. I'm sure there are still some systems under control of the First Order, and the First Order also did the one thing the Empire couldn't do: they destroyed the Republic in one swift stroke. The Republic is still somewhat around during ANH, we just find out that the Emperor had finally seized all control by disbanding the Senate.
No one mentions it but who the hell thought it was good idea to show the First Order as a bunch of Nazi-like army. I don't remember any similar scene in the prequels or the OT. How can be the fans fine with this move?
This is straight up nazi-era shit.
The loudmouth general Hux was just as bad.
Oh boy... This is gold.
But your previous arguments are why you don't think the movie is original (which is a funny comment to make since Star Wars itself is an homage to pre-existing works and isn't really that original), not that the movie doesn't work on its own.
TDLink
Member
So what you're saying is this gif was you reading my last post
I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one
That stuff you mentioned is only the same if you're extremely reductionist. Little kid Anakin in TPM and Luke in ANH have essentially nothing in common. But sure you're right they're both Skywalkers from a desert planet so it's exactly the same.
The only actual narrative parallel from your post is Qui Gon dying in TPM and Obi Wan dying in ANH. But in TPM its his effect on Obi-Wan rather than Anakin, which is Obi-Wan's effect on Luke. Of course it -would- have worked better if Obi-Wan was the main character of TPM...but he isn't.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
I actually thought that bit was very necessary, but ok. Very classy of you.
DarkLordMalik
Member
There are no flag there or huge insignas? Troops formation =/= Nazi. The generals uniform might be similar but honestly speaking, it never felt like that for me in the OT.Off the top of my head, maybe when the Emperor arrives on the second Death Star?
Felt cheap. I wanted an army for the Dark Side of the force and they imitated the most common one, that has been done to death in other movies.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Of course you did, you're the one who put the padding there!
It's still there, by the way. It's not like I "fooled" anyone.
Then, honestly and I don't mean to say this disrespectfully, I think you just missed it in the OT because the OT doesn't exactly shy away from making the Empire out to be Space Nazis.
No they look nothing alike, high leather boots, dark uniforms, caps with insignia or rank. I could even see it as a kid man.
It's basic military. If a high ranking Navy person was going to address us, we'd have the flags broken out and would be arranged into a strict formation. The Order is a military force. Addresses from senior leadership to the entire command would be dressed up.
Similarities to WW2 always happens because it's our most iconic war to draw from for parallels. Even the storm trooper intro was ripped off from the landing boats from the battle of Normandy.
DarkLordMalik
Member
I might have missed it, and maybe Lucas wanted to paint them as Space Nazis, but they never showed a scene as obvious as the general Hux one. It was just terrible to me, but that is just my opinion.
I can understand that.
Almost everything about the empire was inspired by Nazis. Their uniforms, mannerisms, tactics, everything. Palpatine's rise to power was also based heavily on Hitler's. The fact that they didn't put flags in doesn't mean everything else isn't screaming "Nazi." Also, why would they have put flags in a hanger? It wasn't a troop rally, like the TFA scene.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Instead of making more arguments that will not instill any grain of reason into some people on this board (because Star Wars is the bestest thing ever), I invite you all to re-watch the film with some of the better-known arguments that have been made against it in mind.
TRY and view it objectively. Put aside your nostalgia goggles. Look deeply into these characters and try to identify the depth in them. Look at their histories and try to pair it with the action that you see on-screen. See how well they mix together.
TRY and view it objectively. Put aside your nostalgia goggles. Look deeply into these characters and try to identify the depth in them. Look at their histories and try to pair it with the action that you see on-screen. See how well they mix together.
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