I don't any complaints about 'realism' our immortal ninjas have any merit, especially in the wider context of where this is set.
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Marvel's Daredevil S2 *Spoiler Thread* |OT| Elektra Boogaloo - March 18th on Netflix
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
I don't any complaints about 'realism' our immortal ninjas have any merit, especially in the wider context of where this is set.
I don't any complaints about 'realism' our immortal ninjas have any merit, especially in the wider context of where this is set.
Yeah... Considering this is the same universe where Inhumans are running around, a giant green man, a god, and just months ago a Robot tried to destroy the world by dropping Skovia from the sky.
I kind of wish the Hand was a bit more modernized. I get they're full-on mystical ninjas like in the comics, but threating police with arrows and running around in classic ninja outfits looks silly enough to make them hard to take serious as a legit threat IMO
well they don't need them, because you know, they don't actually die.
Yeah... Considering this is the same universe where Inhumans are running around, a giant green man, a god, and just months ago a Robot tried to destroy the world by dropping Skovia from the sky.
I don't think complaining that immortal ninjas lost you is valid. It is all a part of DD and Marvel universe lore. I think complaints about the execution of the plot lines towards the end is valid though.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
If we are talking personal lives then Batman has massive fuck ups.Yes. Daredevil is not Batman. He fucks up. A lot. And carries it with him.
Nowhere close to the darkness that pervades Daredevil's life. Batman is borderline grimdark. Daredevil is full on, knee deep in grimdarkness. To the point where it would be funny, if the stuff that happens to those around him weren't so awful.If we are talking personal lives then Batman has massive fuck ups.
Spieler Eins
Member
5. Why did the writers invest so much in Matt not being a killer, enough to for him to stop Frank from killing at every opportunity possible, just to let him passively accept Elektra killing goons right beside him in those final fight scenes? What's up with that? What's up with him agreeing to let Frank kill just that one time with the Blacksmith? Why did he end up wanting to be with big ol' murdering Elektra?
For the last two I felt it was lying and in the case of Elektra expecting that one of them will die. The fighting alongside Elektra right before that definitely felt awkward. Best thing I can come up with is that he knows they'll revive, but it really was just strikingly awkward story progression. I.e. pretty close to an actual plot hole.
I don't think complaining that immortal ninjas lost you is valid. It is all a part of DD and Marvel universe lore. I think complaints about the execution of the plot lines towards the end is valid though.
Agreed. Though sometimes I do wonder if people realize this is in the MCU. I've seen some comments on Reddit and here that seem as though they think this is it's own standalone universe.
I thought I missed something thereThey never gave a reason why the Colonel became the Blacksmith right? That was pretty poor.
For the last two I felt it was lying and in the case of Elektra expecting that one of them will die. The fighting alongside Elektra right before that definitely felt awkward. Best thing I can come up with is that he knows they'll revive, but it really was just strikingly awkward story progression. I.e. pretty close to an actual plot hole.
It felt like a scene was missing where Claire tells Matt that the Ninja's were all corpses. That'd make it less jarring when Elektra and Punisher straight up murder them all in front of him.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Can anyone explain me Black Sky ?
I found the writing in this season weaker than the first one. Liked Punisher and Elektra, can't stand Karen, she has that cry face all the time.
The nurse was the ex-girlfriend of Luke Cage ?
And the CD, what is on it ?
Missed a lot of Easter Eggs, because I don't really grew up with Marvel comics, are there any good ones ?
I found the writing in this season weaker than the first one. Liked Punisher and Elektra, can't stand Karen, she has that cry face all the time.
The nurse was the ex-girlfriend of Luke Cage ?
And the CD, what is on it ?
Missed a lot of Easter Eggs, because I don't really grew up with Marvel comics, are there any good ones ?
He alluded to something that happened in Kandahar, that Frank didn't want brought up. Maybe whatever it was led him down that path.They never gave a reason why the Colonel became the Blacksmith right? That was pretty poor.
It does at least seem clear it was no accident the Castle family was caught in the crossfire.
The Outsider
Member
Well, this is as good a time as any for me to type up some overall thoughts. I loved it, start to finish. I thought season 1 was great, and it worked really well as a Year Zero storyline for Daredevil. But this for me was unapologetically Daredevil. It really felt like they got to play in the Marvel sandbox - Punisher, Elektra, The Hand, The Chaste, Kingpin.
Those first four episodes are brilliant. Bernthal is Frank Castle. No disrespect to those who have played the Punisher before, but he's just outstanding in a way that none of those actors were. The monologue in episode 4 just hit me, and honestly deserves an Emmy submission. But I think he was exceptional in episode 3 as well; those rooftop scenes were just so well done (and I'm so glad they mostly just wholesale lifted the source material there).
Elodie Yung really nailed Elektra too. I've seen her get praise pretty often, but she's honestly right there with Bernthal for me. Sexy, mysterious, deadly, she's everything Elektra should be. They really captured the toxicity of her relationship with Matt. Can't say I blame him, honestly, I don't think I'd be able to resist either.
I will say that I thought Bernthal was given better material overall though. I loved how they tied Castle into Nelson and Murdock with the trial, and everything from that point forward. The return of Fisk, the escape, and his pairing with Karen in his ultimate quest for revenge made him such a compelling character to watch. Elektra started off really strong with her first few episodes, but her storyline lost a little bit of lustre toward the end. The Black Sky connection with both the Hand and the Chaste didn't feel as tidy as I think I wanted it to, but I believe there's still plenty left to explore with that storyline.
Foggy really came into his own too. I think making him a bit more independent was a smart move, and hopefully we'll see him interacting with JJ and company soon enough. Karen's shift toward following Urich's footsteps felt like a natural development for her character, although I still laugh about how she got his office before anyone else that actually worked there. I'd be pissed if I worked there, anyway. Fisk's appearances were fantastic as well. We're really seeing the "ill intent" that Fisk has accepted of himself. That scene between him and Matt was legimitately terrifying.
On the whole, I think the season is so strong because of the characters and their actions. We've talked a little in this thread about Matt being the most unlikeable of the bunch, but I honestly thought that was well done. I mean, it was frustrating as a viewer, because I desperately wanted him to not be a fuck up, but I think the Punisher and Elektra really fucking with Matt's psyche and contributing to his spiral will be huge for the development of his character moving forward. Opening up to Karen to me indicates that Matt realizes he can accept help, and of course he's gonna need a lot of that for whatever the Defenders throws at us.
What else? Hmmm... The action scenes were all pretty badass. The Hallway 2.0/Stairwell fight in episode 3 was a standout, but I enjoyed the brutality behind everything in the show. Punisher mowing down the Irish, or gutting an entire prison block, to DD and Elektra tag teaming Hand ninjas. I loved the upgrades DD got throughout the new season. The new mask is a massive improvement, and I really got a kick out of seeing him go to town in the red suit. It all felt like a comic book come to life, and I fucking love that.
I could probably go on and on, but I will the say the only things I would have liked to see was more scenes with Father Lantom. He was severely underutilized, and I think Matt needed more scenes grappling with his faith in light of the events from the season. Also, and I blame marketing for this one, but Punisher didn't use the minigun! Those Hand ninjas on the roof in the last episode were practically begging to get gunned down by it. But hey, we got a sniper with Castle in full Punisher costume, so I'll take what I can get.
I'm so ready for more. It's going to be a long wait. Think I'll start a rewatch tonight and pace myself, see what new details I can pick up on.
Those first four episodes are brilliant. Bernthal is Frank Castle. No disrespect to those who have played the Punisher before, but he's just outstanding in a way that none of those actors were. The monologue in episode 4 just hit me, and honestly deserves an Emmy submission. But I think he was exceptional in episode 3 as well; those rooftop scenes were just so well done (and I'm so glad they mostly just wholesale lifted the source material there).
Elodie Yung really nailed Elektra too. I've seen her get praise pretty often, but she's honestly right there with Bernthal for me. Sexy, mysterious, deadly, she's everything Elektra should be. They really captured the toxicity of her relationship with Matt. Can't say I blame him, honestly, I don't think I'd be able to resist either.
I will say that I thought Bernthal was given better material overall though. I loved how they tied Castle into Nelson and Murdock with the trial, and everything from that point forward. The return of Fisk, the escape, and his pairing with Karen in his ultimate quest for revenge made him such a compelling character to watch. Elektra started off really strong with her first few episodes, but her storyline lost a little bit of lustre toward the end. The Black Sky connection with both the Hand and the Chaste didn't feel as tidy as I think I wanted it to, but I believe there's still plenty left to explore with that storyline.
Foggy really came into his own too. I think making him a bit more independent was a smart move, and hopefully we'll see him interacting with JJ and company soon enough. Karen's shift toward following Urich's footsteps felt like a natural development for her character, although I still laugh about how she got his office before anyone else that actually worked there. I'd be pissed if I worked there, anyway. Fisk's appearances were fantastic as well. We're really seeing the "ill intent" that Fisk has accepted of himself. That scene between him and Matt was legimitately terrifying.
On the whole, I think the season is so strong because of the characters and their actions. We've talked a little in this thread about Matt being the most unlikeable of the bunch, but I honestly thought that was well done. I mean, it was frustrating as a viewer, because I desperately wanted him to not be a fuck up, but I think the Punisher and Elektra really fucking with Matt's psyche and contributing to his spiral will be huge for the development of his character moving forward. Opening up to Karen to me indicates that Matt realizes he can accept help, and of course he's gonna need a lot of that for whatever the Defenders throws at us.
What else? Hmmm... The action scenes were all pretty badass. The Hallway 2.0/Stairwell fight in episode 3 was a standout, but I enjoyed the brutality behind everything in the show. Punisher mowing down the Irish, or gutting an entire prison block, to DD and Elektra tag teaming Hand ninjas. I loved the upgrades DD got throughout the new season. The new mask is a massive improvement, and I really got a kick out of seeing him go to town in the red suit. It all felt like a comic book come to life, and I fucking love that.
I could probably go on and on, but I will the say the only things I would have liked to see was more scenes with Father Lantom. He was severely underutilized, and I think Matt needed more scenes grappling with his faith in light of the events from the season. Also, and I blame marketing for this one, but Punisher didn't use the minigun! Those Hand ninjas on the roof in the last episode were practically begging to get gunned down by it. But hey, we got a sniper with Castle in full Punisher costume, so I'll take what I can get.
I'm so ready for more. It's going to be a long wait. Think I'll start a rewatch tonight and pace myself, see what new details I can pick up on.
She got two cops unfairly transferred for sneaking away with Frank though.Karen was... a hell of a lot better this season. She didn't get anyone killed, she acted smart without being superhuman, and she got to do a lot more than just act confused as to why Matt and Foggy are being weird. Still kinda' ghoulish she gets dumped in Ben's office and they don't really even spend much time on that postscript.
Probably an ad-lib.I'm confused about the fact that they avoided the word fuck like a plague for the most part. Not only in the Netflix shows but the rest of the MCU as well. That made it seem like it was a rule set by Disney or something. That is until The Punisher just says it once in episode 02x03. The rest is all shit in all it's forms and variations. And that is what is confusing about it. If they are allowed to use it, why not use it.
Did you watch the first season?The nurse was the ex-girlfriend of Luke Cage ?
Black Sky is a new thing, we know as much as you. I assume its the beast, a demon summoned by the hand that has a history with Elektra in the books.Can anyone explain me Black Sky ?
I found the writing in this season weaker than the first one. Liked Punisher and Elektra, can't stand Karen, she has that cry face all the time.
The nurse was the ex-girlfriend of Luke Cage ?
And the CD, what is on it ?
Missed a lot of Easter Eggs, because I don't really grew up with Marvel comics, are there any good ones ?
The nurse was the ex from Matt from Season 1, Lukes Ex was killed by Jessica Jones.
We dont know either what was on the CD, but Mikro seems like a hint to Mikrochip, a dude who always helped Frank with his weapons and tech on his crusade against crime.
Oooooh right, good one. I guess the exact nature of what happened then is featured on the dvd which Castle takes at the end of ep 13.He alluded to something that happened in Kandahar, that Frank didn't want brought up. Maybe whatever it was lead him down that path.
It does at least seem clear it was no accident the Castle family was caught in the crossfire.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Black Sky is a new thing, we know as much as you. I assume its the beast, a demon summoned by the hand that has a history with Elektra in the books.
The nurse was the ex from Matt from Season 1, Lukes Ex was killed by Jessica Jones.
We dont know either what was on the CD, but Mikro seems like a hint to Mikrochip, a dude who always helped Frank with his weapons and tech on his crusade against crime.
Oh shit, I am stupid. Yeah, totally forgot that, but I am not a big fan of JJ.
But really, this was some League of Assassin's shit this season.
Fisk is still king. In every scene he is in he steals the scene.
The Outsider
Member
It's a little out of character, but it's also addressed within the season itself. Castle is a pretty good marksman.So does the Punisher go around very nearly killing random civilians in the comics too? That hospital chase scene didn't set the character up very well at all, for me.
It was kind of funny that a marksman of all people used a shotgun at a distance.It's a little out of character, but it's also addressed within the season itself. Castle is a pretty good marksman.
It's a little out of character, but it's also addressed within the season itself. Castle is a pretty good marksman.
Meaningless with a sawed-off shotgun.
The Outsider
Member
It was kind of funny that a marksman of all people used a shotgun at a distance.
Meaningless with a sawed-off shotgun.
Well, shotguns are cool. That's all I got.
Castle: "didn't hurt anyone did I?"Meaningless with a sawed-off shotgun.
It's a little out of character, but it's also addressed within the season itself. Castle is a pretty good marksman.
I'm just rationalizing it as Castle being proto-punisher at that point. His MO isn't a 100% set. Plus like he said he believed no one was in danger apart from the perp.
It was kind of funny that a marksman of all people used a shotgun at a distance.
The whole "wide spread short range shotgun" thing is a video game/movie trope. In the real world people hunt with shotguns.
The range the punisher was shooting at was completely realistic.
The Artisan
Member
he really hates karen.It's not out of nowhere, it's been evident on every occasions that she has a knack for finding things.
she was not directly responsible for ben's death.She got Ben killed pursuing a story that was irrelevant last season and this season she gets handed a job as a reporter out of nowhere just to give us the backstory on the Punisher. The writers also go out of their way to make sure she's in the middle of as much shit as possible.
BronsonLee
Member
Matt stays fucking up
Stick stays a huge douchebag
Foggy and Karen got upgraded
Elektra and Castle were the GOAT
Stick stays a huge douchebag
Foggy and Karen got upgraded
Elektra and Castle were the GOAT
The Artisan
Member
oh I see. is nobu an original character or was he in the comics?They're Hand ninja, as such they are mostly immortal through magic.
The teens in the hospital were brainwashed by the Hand and were being used as farms for the tainted blood needed for resurrection.
Stick wanted to kill Elektra because she was Black Sky, like the kind in the first one.
what is exactly is the concept of the "farm"?
I wasn't paying too much attention to the holes in the walls, but a shotgun can still have a pretty tight spread at medium range. Or he could be using slugs, which make a shotgun as accurate as a rifle (but those could punch through most walls and kill whoever was on the other side, so maybe not).It was kind of funny that a marksman of all people used a shotgun at a distance.
Her becoming a reporter out of nowhere has nothing to do with me disliking her.he really hates karen.
I don't know why you keep trying to argue with me about this.she was not directly responsible for ben's death.
BronsonLee
Member
Lol wtf
Karen totally caused that shit
Karen totally caused that shit
"Hey Ben, I want to show you a nice home for your wife...."Lol wtf
Karen totally caused that shit
The Artisan
Member
I'd say it does bro. You've got such a deep hate for her that you'll hate anything and anything her character has to do with the show. If that's not true then just tell me.Her becoming a reporter out of nowhere has nothing to do with me disliking her.
as long as you are saying it, i'm going to be arguing against it because it's wrong.I don't know why you keep trying to argue with me about this.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I bet Ellison is gonna take Ben's place in the Born Again adaptation for season 3.
Damn it, Karen.
Damn it, Karen.
I wasn't paying too much attention to the holes in the walls, but a shotgun can still have a pretty tight spread at medium range. Or he could be using slugs, which make a shotgun as accurate as a rifle (but those could punch through most walls and kill whoever was on the other side, so maybe not).
Imfdb is saying the shotgun is an Ithaca 37 stakeout. As for ammo, given that the Punisher is the fucking Punisher, I'd guess it's buckshot or some kind of nasty pumpkin ball load, which would definitely rip a guy up at that range.
Max Sterling
Member
I think they did a better job with Foggy this season. Most scenes he had with Matt I was leaning more toward his side. Even though he wrote off Frank as being a deranged looney but still did what he could to help him. They did well portraying that he was a good person at heart and was stuck in the middle of his best friend being his partner by day and vigilante by night.
The Artisan
Member
I bet Ellison is gonna take Ben's place in the Born Again adaptation for season 3.
Damn it, Karen.
since this is happening long after the deal with sony, I half expected to see daily bulletin get bought by the daily bugle, or something. maybe we'll get that in season 3.
CaviarMeths
Member
Did the writers really expect us to believe Frank's old unit all became drug runners and were responsible for a drug bust that got his family killed? The episode that revealed that his colonel was the Blacksmith all along came out of nowhere. Literally no foreshadowing or any meaningful reason to expect this guy was a criminal mastermind that eluded law enforcement and every other criminal organization. His goons are also former Marines like Frank but got wiped out as easily as any other goon in the show. Give me a break.
There was a hint or two earlier in the season. The biggest one was when someone said the supply of heroine was coming from the Middle East.
Also, the colonel's testimony in court makes it very clear that Frank is on a level far above anyone in his group. He takes the heavily-occupied LZ by himself while everyone else hides.
I'll be honest, by episode 12, with the way they were keeping the Blacksmith identity hush hush, it became painfully obvious that it was someone we've seen before. And once Clancy Brown's mug showed up on screen, I already knew what was going to happen.There was a hint or two earlier in the season. The biggest one was when someone said the supply of heroine was coming from the Middle East.
Also, the colonel's testimony in court makes it very clear that Frank is on a level far above anyone in his group. He takes the heavily-occupied LZ by himself while everyone else hides.
BronsonLee
Member
So Karen's totally going to expose Matt as Daredevil and Foggy's going to defend him in court, isn't he
StopMakingSense
Member
They never gave a reason why the Colonel became the Blacksmith right? That was pretty poor.
The reason is he was played by Clancy Brown, of course he was evil.
More_Badass
Member
Oh, she's going to expose Matt as Daredevil to somebodySo Karen's totally going to expose Matt as Daredevil and Foggy's going to defend him in court, isn't he
Alandrus Sun
Banned
The reason is he was played by Clancy Brown, of course he was evil.
Yeah, I knew Clancy Brown was a bad guy the minute he appeared on screen. And, the way he had nothing but positive things to say about the Frank "he knew" during the trial assured me that he had something against Frank. However, him being revealed as the Blacksmith along with the rest of Frank's unit was some sloppy bullshit that barely made any sense.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
I feel like we're owed some kind of explanation for why we didn't get Frank going ham on a ninja army with that minigun lol. Budget maybe? I thought for sure it was happening when they emphasized how many ninjas there were, and instead we just got Frank sniping a couple. Massively disappointing.
BronsonLee
Member
I was bummed Frank and Elektra never interacted. The motion poster had him just walking up with that minigun right behind her, so I figured some shit was gonna go down.
Clancy as the big bad drug dealer was weird. Nobu being the main big bad was kind of dumb. I'm glad they got to the 'Elektra dies and gets revived' shit early because everybody knows that deal already. Good lord, is she so fucked up in the head, too. Zero chill
Clancy as the big bad drug dealer was weird. Nobu being the main big bad was kind of dumb. I'm glad they got to the 'Elektra dies and gets revived' shit early because everybody knows that deal already. Good lord, is she so fucked up in the head, too. Zero chill
Escape Goat
Member
Why was Karen so caught up with Frank? I never understood her strong emotional connection with him. It went way beyond simple empathy.
Why was Karen so caught up with Frank? I never understood her strong emotional connection with him. It went way beyond simple empathy.
Well, her past seems to have something to do with it...