GluedOnBeard
Member
Great news, good to know that the GPU will be able to get more out of it down the road and it won't be maxed out too soon. Be interesting to see just what the differences/performance gains are.
Microsoft implies DirectX 12 functionality will work on Xbox One
- Thread starter MCD
- Start date
Interesting. I'm just wondering about all the people saying that there wouldn't be much of an improvement.
I think there could potentially be a lot of improvement if DX11 was indeed simply tacked on there to hold it back. Still not even with the PS4 in the least but a lot closer. Am I on track here?
I know this is a joke, but effects are often rendered at lower res than the rest of the game, like 480p. IIRC.
When you install DX12 on the Xbone, it will automatical generate more hardware inside the box. You will have a GTX TITAN Quad SLI then!
Man, i haven't visit that site in a while (i feel guilty i gave him clicks before); what's new up there?
anexanhume
Member
Of course, Sony will implement any new features in PSSL (as will openGL) so there will be parity of functions. True question is whether it adds any new functionality or exposes the GCN cores in such a way that helps developers get more performance or better techniques.
It depends what the changes are. I can't really assess it without that, but they did notably improve the driver layer.
Overall we're still talking about what is likely single digit percentage increases in speed here, but it helps.
Edit: In case I was unclear, this is relative to how it's running now. Obviously the raw hardware gap can never change.
How could any possible outcome be "gross"? That comment is baffling me.
The hardware is what it is. That's not improving.
If you want to consider MS and Sony competition on their APIs, and who can best expose their hardwares' capabilities, it'll ultimately be a wash, or should be. Sony seems to have done better out of the gate with theirs, surprisingly enough, but both will continue to evolve and optimise their drivers and libraries. A dx12 based driver would just be another notch on that path for MS.
That old leaked roadmap talked about serving up Xbox content to different screens. Who knows how much of that got abandoned though. I'm sure they threw some hooks in there for some kind of future functionality, if only because of how nice of a sales boost Kinect was last time. I guess we'll see.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Gross?
lol
What I'm saying is, this is Microsoft we're talking about. The company that tried to take ownership of games away from consumers. The same company that tried to strong-arm GFWL and DX10 onto PC gamers with Halo 2. I don't trust them to use DX12 to move things forward but rather hold them back so the Xbox One doesn't keep having a competitive disadvantage. I apologize for my cynicism, but I think it's somewhat warranted.
nillapuddin
Member
Windows 7 users still really mad confirmed
Most of this means nothing til it means something confirmed
Most of this means nothing til it means something confirmed
Halo 5 best looking shooter of its release window confirmed
Wishmaster92
Member
[]It's happening.
[x]It's not happening.
FullMetaltech
Member
Awe man you had to say his name.
This is what I meant (after the quote):
Yes that's what I meant. If it was designed for DX12, then having DX11 would only take away potential power. DX12 would only get it closer to max efficiency. Thank you.
One other question, you said single digit percentages. Do you think this could possibly on some games be enough to bump them from 900p to 1080p (like in the instance where the game could possibly work at 1080p but wasn't very stable before)? Like "this game runs at a more consistent framerate at 900p than 1080p, but now we've got more room to work with so now we can hit that 1080p more safely." kind of thing?
This doesn't make a lot of sense.
Hold what back? PCs? They're already leagues ahead, and would continue to grow leagues ahead even if the API landscape remained unchanged. But by the sounds of it MS is actually working to try to bring over some of the 'console advantages' of lower CPU overhead to PC.
Hold back console competitors? DX is irrelevant there, their competitors have the luxury of specifying and building from scratch APIs that hug their machines precisely.
edit - if you mean 'DX12 isn't going to add anything meaningful if it can be supported on XB1' - making a API and runtime available for a board doesn't necessarily mean that DX version doesn't support or expose new HW features that would be required to make a board DX12 compliant. For example I can make and build a game to require DX11 libraries drivers - but the game can run on a DX10 card. So maybe there are new HW features exposed by DX12, requiring new hardware - that would not be precluded by a DX12 based driver for XB1. Or maybe it's an overhead focused update, which could be very worthwhile on its own anyway.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Weird, I thought that was the entire point of DirectX/the Xbox brand, that they'd match up. I'm not surprised by this, but apparently it wasn't a guarantee?
I would see it more as a "We have an easier time maintaining our framerate at the target resolution we were at anyway."
900p -> 1080p is 50% more pixels which means you would need 50% more hardware power for the per pixel calculations.
That resolution gap actually comes in large part due to this since if you look at the raw hardware, that's what you're seeing.
Imagine a smoother experience (less drops) at the same resolution than a different resolution in most use cases.
Wasn't there a new Direct X ver release just a yr after the 360 and the 360 didn't support it?
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Microsoft can't make things worse with a new version of DirectX. What the hell are you babbling about?
Microsoft's DirectX team very likely has nothing to do with the team that made the first-draft Xbone decisions. If DX12 sucks, nobody will develop for it.
Usually a console doesn't advance an entire API generation. If it did, the Xbox 360 would have DX11 now. As it stands it's go something that resembles DX9.
My theory though is that it was always designed for DX12, but that DX12 just wasn't quite ready (remember, sources say that MS was expecting to release this year and not last). So they just stuck DX11 in there for now all the time preparing to move to this. If they hadn't, then it would be a lot more complicated.
Basically I don't see any other likely way this could happen since consoles are so inextricably tied to their firmware/software.
EDIT: beaten, but my response is more in depth so I'll leave it up.
That makes sense. Thanks a lot!
rokkerkory
Member
ahhh this is the secret sauce we've all been waiting for
Tripp Daily
Member
Probably get flamed for this, but as I understand it direct x is a tool set aimed to help developers?
Could direct x begin to include a tool set to help developers with cloud compute operations or is it strictly graphics based? I could see Microsoft start pushing for that since they have an invested interest with the Azure network.
Could direct x begin to include a tool set to help developers with cloud compute operations or is it strictly graphics based? I could see Microsoft start pushing for that since they have an invested interest with the Azure network.
That's basically what I've been saying. It was designed to support DX12, I would wager, but DirectX 12 wasn't ready when they had to release the XBox One.
Remember how many sources have said that they had to rush things a bit since they originally planned to launch in 2014? Well, perhaps DX12 couldn't be sped up, so they just patched it up with DX11 until DX12 could be finished.
I can't think of any other possibility right now.
DirectX is just their graphics API. Anything to do with cloud/Azure computing would be a different set of tools or APIs.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Either DX12 is compatible with DX11.1 or DX11.2 hardware, or the Xbone's graphics hardware was designed with DX12 in mind.
The former seems more likely. DX12 will likely be an optimization of previously added features (perhaps accessible combinations of unexplored stuff in 11.2) as opposed to "NEW FEATURES OMG." Maybe Microsoft was feeling a lack of adoption for DX11.1 and DX11.2 so they're rebranding the whole package.
Another idea: DirectX is also more than just Direct3D, so there could be less of a 3D-features focus.
Man, i haven't visit that site in a while (i feel guilty i gave him clicks before); what's new up there?
Hidden extra esram, full HSA stacked soc and 10-15 Teraflops multiplied by 4 because of stereo drivers and paralell coding. Nothing special.
How can a DX10 (or DX9) card run a game built against DX11 libraries?
New features in new hardware can be exposed by new runtimes, but they don't just fall over on older hardware - unless you try to call those new features anyway. A XB1-ified version of DX12 wouldn't expose any hardware features its GPU does not support.
Vestal
Junior Member
DirectX originally was not only graphics it was a combination of different components.
DirectDraw
directplay
DirectSound
direct3D
That's my point, how do you think MS will sell us DX12 on XBO?
The Xbox One doesn't run entirely standard DX 11.x code as it is, does it? It's more likely that DX 12 is going to bring the existing optimizations of the Xbox One ABI/APIs over to the PC side (such as the lower CPU overhead) than it is that the Xbox One APIs will be updated significantly.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Depends on the focus of DirectX 12, but I don't think gamers will be the one advertised to. Microsoft will be trying to catch attention of developers instead.
Do you really think we won't see user saying that PS4 doesn't support DX12, XBO is now easy to develop, etc...?
Iced_Eagle
Member
On Xbox it's expected that all software updates to the OS are free. With Windows, you need to pay for major versions. Updates to DirectX tend to involve updates to the Windows Display Driver Model, and that requires kernel/OS changes. It's non-trivial to backport driver model and kernel changes to earlier versions of Windows.