Microsoft implies DirectX 12 functionality will work on Xbox One
- Thread starter MCD
- Start date
I don't see what there is to sell as such.
The thread title might be misleading people a bit. I don't think MS is implying that any (new) DX12 functionality will work on XB1 as much as they're implying that there'll be a version of DX12 for XB1 development.
New versions of the DX runtime are usable on older hardware even if that hardware is not fully compliant with the whole set of features exposed by the new version. This would be no different here. Obviously MS would like to keep their XB1 API in sync with the PC versions of DX as far as possible to ease cross platform development. It's not about selling the idea that XB1 is 'DX12 compliant', any more than my old nVidia is DX11 compliant just because I updated to the DX11 runtime.
Going by previous generations the Xboxes get a tailored version of DX that provides less driver overhead and exposes more hardware features directly in the API, but it's never a 1:1 match between the console API and the PC equivalent.
If I'm allowed to extrapolate from that, I would think this time is no different. The Xbox One graphics API is based on DX11, has some additional low level hardware access, and it seems that Microsoft wants to bring back that low level access from the console space to the PC space by figuring out a sustainable way to do so over a larger range of hardware, relabeling it DX12 in the process.
The benefits of going this way is that you get a 1:1 match between the console version of DX12 and the PC version of DX12. This could potentially make porting games between the platforms easier, but I doubt there will be much in the way of performance improvement on the Xbox One since the driver overhead is already low,
Iced_Eagle
Member
Based on past DirectX releases, the latest generation of cards will support a subset of features (anything that can be done at the driver level essentially), while the next generation of cards will be the first ones to fully support it.
I know, DX11's probably the new DX9, but it just seems to me like a good opportunity for MS to use their API as leverage in some way.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
I was thinking more along the lines of some additional API software functionality instead of full API hardware compliance.
Oh, he'd love that. It would feed into his persecution complex.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Not really, no. Those are delusional fanboy talking points, not modern advertising.
They can't really use DX as leverage because developers can easily choose not to use it. We're already seeing OpenGL dominate on PC (OSX and Linux ports rising), and even recent modern PC games don't always use the most modern version of DirectX. Tying it to Windows 8.1 is another nail in the coffin.
Unless Microsoft really files out of the gate with a DX release that is a vast upgrade in every way, developers can just as well ignore it if your conspiracy turns out to be correct. The only thing that might come of this is Microsoft updating their developer tools for the Xbone, but what a shock, that happens often across a hardware lifecycle anyway. There's literally no leverage here.
Delusibeta
Banned
Honestly? I wouldn't be too surprised if this is a similar situation as last time, when the 360 supported DX10 but not really.
Deadpool_X
Banned
There's cynical, and then there's paranoid. I'm afraid you are starting to drift farther and farther down the path of the latter.
dragonelite
Member
A common API should make it a bit more easier for devs to port games from pc to X1 or vice versa.
Syphon Filter
Member
Was thinking the same thing.
geordiemp
Member
No I read him every day....it gets funnier and funnier as each deadline passes and he makes a new one up to go even bigger.
Oh man, we had dark silicon, stereo drivers, hidden dGPU, GPU in power brick, hidden 7970 GPU, 128 MB ESRAM, he really deserves his own GAF thread to honour the insanity.
tehe
I thought the power brick stuff was a parody. I must have missed that era.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Lol...some people, man. Geez...they can't possibly believe cold, hard facts. The fact of the matter is, I know my Xbox One is underpowered compared to the PS4(which I will probably pick up later in 2014 or 2015), but that doesn't still mean that there aren't great games coming out for it! I don't know why this guy can't just accept that the PS4 is a more powerful machine! Lol
The Abominable Snowman
Member
We know DirectX12 is coming to Windows Phone, Xbox One, and Windows 8.1. Maybe Windows RT as well. I'd imagine you could one day have the ability to change the display from your TV or Monitor to any other DX12 enabled device. Microsoft is one of the few ardent supporters of Miracast and other wifi-display technologies.
Great minds think alike
As long as ICE Team are about I have no concerns as to the quality that can be derived from the PS4 at a later date.
DX12 is of no concern to PS4 in terms of it "missing" out due to it only being on MS platforms or whatever conjecture some might discern from this news.
If it helps X1 perform better and reach its potential then that is great news, but in no event is this a benefit for one at the expense of another.
DX12 is of no concern to PS4 in terms of it "missing" out due to it only being on MS platforms or whatever conjecture some might discern from this news.
If it helps X1 perform better and reach its potential then that is great news, but in no event is this a benefit for one at the expense of another.
Doug Heffernan
Member
well it is called the "X" box
I wonder if Halo 5 will be the first to use DX12
I wonder if Halo 5 will be the first to use DX12
Or unless MS pays them. I don't think that'll happen, though.
I realize that. I just don't like the idea of MS being threatened from all sides like they are currently by Sony and Valve. Them being backed into a corner scares me because I don't think they'll fight fairly.
My guess is that DX12 will have less overhead than DX11, and will thus help the CPU a bit. I don't think it will speed up what the GPU is doing. Shaders are shaders, no matter if you're running Open GL, DX11 or DX12. It might add some new fancy effects that you will see in 1-2 games per year though.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Considering DirectX is exclusive to Microsoft platforms, that would be...Microsoft paying for exclusive games. And what benefit would Microsoft get from paying developers to use a gimped API limited to Microsoft platforms anyway? Your conspiracy continues to make less and less sense.
I think you're painting the situation with a more dramatic flair than is necessary.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Ok, put down the tinfoil hat. Microsoft is hardly backed into a corner at the moment. They are the biggest software company in the world. 98% of computer owners use their operating systems.
As far as the console market goes, we are 3 months into a new generation. Things are hardly as open and shut as many here on the Internet would lead us to believe. I will reiterate what I said before: Microsoft isn't backed into a corner.
Shoot, if anyone were in a corner right now, it's Nintendo. And cornered Nintendo is usually the best, most entertaining Nintendo you'll ever see. Desperate Nintendo puts on a show like no other, and usually delivers crazy awesome things.
Either way, calm down, take some deep breaths, and take some anxiety pills, because the way you are expressing yourself right now makes me believe that you think of MS as the devil, and really, they're just a company like any other.
DonfatherBrooks
Member
Open GL dominating not quite. It is very popular yet so is Direct X with Direct3D. This will still be important to a lot of devs out there and I am interested to see what's new.
NullPointer
Member
I'm sure there will be full support for DirectX 12 on the Xbox*
Angelus Errare
Banned
Oh man they're finally going to unlock the dGPU.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Maybe "dominating" was too strong of a verb, but OpenGL is doing far better than it was at the beginning of the last generation. I could see the Steambox pushing it further.
I was just trying to illustrate that Microsoft doesn't have the leverage they once did.
BRocknRolla
Member
This was my thought. I see some suggesting that this isn't a given, but it seems rather senseless to not allow for upgrading. I know it's been said that MS's departments don't communicate well and there's a lot of infighting, but I would hope the DX team would be working on some level with the Xbox team given that this is the third console.
What exactly would you have them do? From the sounds of things, the software had a long way to go on the developer side from day one, so not doing anything with software would be a really bad idea. It's not as though they're going to toss the Xbox One out the window after such a small amount of time and release better hardware. They're stuck with what they've got and software optimization is their only hope for marginally improving performance for what is an underpowered system.
That's what Type R stickers are for
It will be interesting to see if DX12 brings the Bone anywhere near PS4. Competition can't hurt.
BRocknRolla
Member
That's what Type R stickers are for
It will be interesting to see if DX12 brings the Bone anywhere near PS4. Competition can't hurt.
Unless DX12 comes with a new graphics card and better ram solution, I don't think software optimization is going to close that gap.
IcyRhythms
Member
In other words, DX12 won't be a huge jump or anything to write home about for PC gamers if they plan to take advantage of it on XB1. Got it...should just call it 11.3
But, what if it connects the move engines to the 2nd layer? Stereo 3D dark silicon, but stacked HSA Hanna? You're only looking at the surface. Keep digging.
It is far worse than that, Halo 2 did not even use DX10!
They just made use of a unimportant Vista feature (I think in the installer) to stop the game from working on XP!
Did he ever mention the Dark Silicon? The one they developed together with Samsung, LG and Nvidia? Seriously, link please
oflaherty01
Member
Never heard of a company putting out stuff that under performs compared to the competition and then having software that makes it performs better.
AMD CPUs and Mantle? (ignoring that they cost less than intel)
Garrett 2U
Member
this slaughtered me
You managed to use all of the misterx bullshit terms in a single coherent sentence. Bravo! Misterx and his crew cant even do that.
Did he ever mention the Dark Silicon? The one they developed together with Samsung, LG and Nvidia? Seriously, link please
He has organized the front page to include a tidy summary of his lunacy, with links. The whole damn thing is fascinating.
Because fun is still allowed in these parts, sonny.
Syphon Filter
Member
you have too much fun ; )
BRocknRolla
Member
I don't agree with that conclusion. If anything, I think the PC is the platform where a shift to DX12 will be the most noticeable.
Ah yes, "it's all in good fun".
First thing that always comes up, like a Swiss clockwork.