• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Mobile Suit Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans S2TEKKADAN is MURDERERS, HAIL GHALLARJORN

duckroll

Member
Wow. That was... a really good episode. There was action and stuff, but the dialogue was probably some of the best stuff in the series so far. People always give Kuroda shit for all the -bad- stuff he writes, but when he gets to be on point, FUCK he is on point. Everything leading up to this battle has been about people making bad decisions, the philosophy of law and order, and the question of whether Tekkadan is a heroic faction or just trapped in a cycle of terrible war with no real hope for redemption. I think this episode answers a lot of those questions from the perspective of the people making the show, based on what they chose to show.

Yes, Tekkadan are probably "better" people in the ultimate moral question compared to Rustal. They believe in friendship, honor, trust, and a better future. But it also doesn't matter because Rustal is the more pragmatic man who seems more than morality - he sees order itself. Things have to be structured in such a way to justify them, even if it is manipulated. He is a bastard, but if he can get out of the fight alive, he also needs to be able to justify his actions and have the legal advantage. That is "how Rustal fights".

But most important of all is probably the moment at the end that everything leads to. It's a typical Gundam hero moment. The super weapon is foreshadowed. The attack is a last ditch strategy that has to succeed. Most people expect Shino to maybe die doing it, but it still has to succeed. If it doesn't maybe it's because something better and stronger comes along and everyone has to combine their forces to defeat him. But no. That's not what happened. Because in war that's not what happens. Not only does the plan fail, like it did for the Turbines, but it failed because Barbatos hasn't killed a scrub-tier mid-boss fast enough. Her strategy wasn't to beat Mika, just to delay him, distract him, and when she saw the opportunity in the end she decided to intercept. It ruins everything and makes Shino's death totally pointless. But it also underlines what IBO is about. There are no winners here. In the end there will be no winners either. Only perhaps survivors.
 

casiopao

Member
Wow never thought that Rustal is that good.O_O

It is like he had the mind of Gihren+Jamitov there.O_O

Choco Guy is soo screwed ll.
 

AALLx

Member
It was Iok's presence on the ship that saved Rustal. When all of this is over, Iok will be the only one left standing...
 
As much as I wanted Shino to get his King Kittan moment, IBO was never going to let that happen based off of everything they've shown so far.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oh, Yamagi and Shino are relevant again for the second time in 20 episodes. This show modus operandi tells me it's them for one of them to die. Lafter 2.0. incoming.

ysc55Zd.jpg

IoYeodW.png


eHsksIX.gif


Cx2wPVz.gif



Fuck you.

I've seen Jun Maeda's works that are far less manipulative.

Eugene dies next episode after giving a big speech, by the way.
 

casiopao

Member
Oh, Yamagi and Shino are relevant again for the second time in 20 episodes. This show modus operandi tells me it's them for one of them to die. Lafter 2.0. incoming.


Fuck you.

I've seen Jun Maeda's works that far less cheap manipulative.

Eugene dies next episode after giving a big speech, by the way.

Lol. Those who have watched Gundam series should had known this is coming soon lol.^^

The more u like a ship pairing, the easier they will fall and harder too.
 

MechaX

Member
Wow, I saw two emotions from Mika that I haven't seen from him for the entire series.

The first was him being legitimately frantic for a second when Orga's ship got shot up.

The second was his ".... FUCK." expression when Julietta earned her Arianrhod Fleet MVP by running interference when the clock was literally at 2 seconds left.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Wow, I saw two emotions from Mika that I haven't seen from him for the entire series.

The first was him being legitimately frantic for a second when Orga's ship got shot up.

The second was his ".... FUCK." expression when Julietta earned her Arianrhod Fleet MVP by running interference when the clock was literally at 2 seconds left.

Dudes going to be genuinely furious next ep. He fucked up big time this ep (probably the biggest he's ever done) and got a family member killed in vain. It's pretty ironic the most amount of emotion he's shown in a fight was against a machine.
 

casiopao

Member
Dudes going to be genuinely furious next ep. He fucked up big time this ep (probably the biggest he's ever done) and got a family member killed in vain. It's pretty ironic the most amount of emotion he's shown in a fight was against a machine.

You guys are being unfair on Juli-chan there lol.^^ She is doing really great in this battle lol.
 
Oh, Yamagi and Shino are relevant again for the second time in 20 episodes. This show modus operandi tells me it's them for one of them to die. Lafter 2.0. incoming

<snip>

Fuck you.

I've seen Jun Maeda's works that far less cheap manipulative.

Eugene dies next episode after giving a big speech, by the way.

I've said it before, but Okada (and IBO by extension) has no subtlety. We were all guessing it from the preview last week, but you could tell Shino's time was up from pretty early in the episode.
There go my hopes for a Eugene & Shino comedy spinoff though.
The only real unknown was how far they would go in having Yamagi confess before he got widowed (and if Shino was gonna reciprocate).
 

Taruranto

Member
My issue is that Shino and Yamagi (but you can also apply to other characters like Eugene and Lafter, they are just the most obvious recent examples) aren't even characters at this point, they had no developments, no screen-time, no direction and literally 1 relevant scene before this episode in all season. Granted, they were never ever SUPER DEEP, but at least there was a background progression in S1.

I'm more sad about the wasted potential (Because their scenes together were quite well directed with good chemistry, which It's why I think the pairing was popular) more than the actual death. You can also apply this to Lafter/Guts.
 
Macky thought he had a premium on wise planning and leadership but in this episode Rustal just show them all how a real pragmatic leader fights.

Rustal is going to be a shining example for Iok to become a better leader when this is over because youfucking know he's surviving.


Also mad props to Julietta, she may be scrubby but she's got enough pluck and determination to make even Mika have trouble killing her. Amazing episode. Shino's death ending up pointless was the real icing on the cake.
 

casiopao

Member
Macky thought he had a premium on wise planning and leadership but in this episode Rustal just show them all how a real pragmatic leader fights.

Rustal is going to be a shining example for Iok to become a better leader when this is over because youfucking know he's surviving.


Also mad props to Julietta, she may be scrubby but she's got enough pluck and determination to make even Mika have trouble killing her. Amazing episode. Shino's death ending up pointless was the real icing on the cake.

Indeed that pointless Shino dead is really something i really loved.^^ It shows how romance don't exist in war and sometimes u just failed there.^^

Juli-chan best waifu still.^^
 
Also mad props to Julietta, she may be scrubby but she's got enough pluck and determination to make even Mika have trouble killing her.

Let's be honest. As far as the episodes of Season 2 went so far, Mika isn't even as good as S1 Mika.

S1 Mika is so scary that you'd be scared for his enemy.

They had to downgrade him so that the Barbatos Plot Weapon/Ability will look good/strong.
 

casiopao

Member
Let's be honest. As far as the episodes of Season 2 went so far, Mika isn't even as good as S1 Mika.

S1 Mika is so scary that you'd be scared for his enemy.

They had to downgrade him so that the Barbatos Plot Weapon/Ability will look good/strong.

Nah. The battle against the MA shows how scary Mika is there lol. Hell, i would said he is even more scary during that battle in S2 compared to all his battle in S1
 
I'm actually kinda disappointed that all we've really seen Flarous do is blow up a few rocks and shoot no names. IMO Shino and Akihiro (and their Gundams) never really got too much time to shine even though they're also g-pilots*.

Akihiro got a bit in his fight with Galan, but that wasn't really that impressive tbh. And even with the Jasley fight I thought it should have been him to end it instead of Mika who gets most of the focus/cool combat. Generally the only "cool" moments anyone-who-is-not-Mika were allowed have been the all-or-nothing gambits - and as we saw today, you can only rely on those to take you so far...

To that end, Rustal's plan to keep Barbatos occupied instead of believing it can be destroyed makes a lot of sense. Barbatos' broader effectiveness on the flow of a battle has been key to many of Tekkadan's fights and their ability to beat the odds.

Suppressing TK's ability to support McGillis means Arianrhod can focus on destroying the (overtly rebellious) Revolutionaries Fleet - and force McGillis to make a choice to surrender.

If McGillis, surrenders / is caught / killed, then Rustal can turn to Carta's fleet and basically say "There is no more need for you to fight any more - especially for a man who gained his ability to command you by orchestrating the killing of your previous leader".

&#8212; Of course, there are still 5 episodes left - so the ending won't be that simple (what will it mean for Tekkadan for a start, etc). I hope that they at least give Akihiro something cool to do that isn't 4 gun spamming / using wirecutters, but i doubt it.






*I'm adding them to the list of suits that did some stuff but its only really scratching the surface of what they could do (*cough* Vidar), and suits that we've seen but have done fuckall as of yet (Orga's white Shiden *cough*).
 
It was Iok's presence on the ship that saved Rustal. When all of this is over, Iok will be the only one left standing...

Seriously, I don't ask for alot. I just want Iok to die.

Let's be honest. As far as the episodes of Season 2 went so far, Mika isn't even as good as S1 Mika.

S1 Mika is so scary that you'd be scared for his enemy.

They had to downgrade him so that the Barbatos Plot Weapon/Ability will look good/strong.

Here's the thing though, Season 1 Mika went beast mode after failing to kill off Mid-Boss Carta led to Biscuit's death. The same thing happened here; because he didn't finish off Julietta quick enough, Shino ultimately failed his shot and bit the bullet.

And considering how Mika performed in his "rematch" with Carta, I think all you Julietta fans better form a prayer circle for her.
 
Also mad props to Julietta, she may be scrubby but she's got enough pluck and determination to make even Mika have trouble killing her. Amazing episode. Shino's death ending up pointless was the real icing on the cake.
Let's be honest. As far as the episodes of Season 2 went so far, Mika isn't even as good as S1 Mika.

S1 Mika is so scary that you'd be scared for his enemy.

They had to downgrade him so that the Barbatos Plot Weapon/Ability will look good/strong.

I've seen this a lot in various places so i wanna say
1. Mika has always been a close quarters melee / brute force overpowering type of fighter. Its only increased over the series and Barbatos' more animalistic non-human proportions are a reflection of this.
2. His fighting style mean that his AV-reflexes and Gundam reaction time are most effective (and show the biggest gap between him and a regular person) in combat in a gravity environment (see the Mars and Earth fights)
3. Up against high-speed hit and run enemies in zero-G, he's been shown to not be as dominant as he usually is because he's not in the ideal scenario above (this goes back even as far as his fights with Lafter and Gaelio in S1).
4. While its true Julietta had trouble against Amida's Hyakuren, people forget that Amida was established as a beast mode pilot in her own right.
5. Julietta was able to hold him up at the beginning of the series as well. Yes, Mika can do his faustian Trans-am and easily be a level above her - but there isn't enough of a disadvantage (yet) for him to see that as his best option.

That said - I have no idea if she'll survive the next episode though, looks like its gonna be yet another backstory then exit stage left play. Maybe they'll subvert it and just have her be injured and not dead, but we'll see
 

kurahador

Member
Orga will die later on and Mika will freeze mid battle due to him never having his own thought or know what the right thing to do.
And then Iok kills him.

End credit.
 

Tecl0n

Member
Another great ep.

Rustal is the best hope for IBO's forsaken reality.

Also, one of the best fade into credits song the series have done.
 

RangerBAD

Member
Another great ep.

Rustal is the best hope for IBO's forsaken reality.

Also, one of the best fade into credits song the series have done.

Rustal wants to keep things status quo. Gjallarhorn would not change under him. So reality wouldn't change. Tekkadan wants to change the reality for them and other debris.
 
Orga will die later on and Mika will freeze mid battle due to him never having his own thought or know what the right thing to do.
And then Iok kills him.

End credit.

I want this to happen. I'd pay to see this in IMAX 3D.

Also, to all Iok haters: he'll live. He's sturdier than Patrick Coca-Cola.

I've seen this a lot in various places so i wanna say

That said - I have no idea if she'll survive the next episode though, looks like its gonna be yet another backstory then exit stage left play. Maybe they'll subvert it and just have her be injured and not dead, but we'll see

Yes, what you've said are all true. I'm not arguing otherwise (or that Julieta's weak). But those actually does not change the fact that Mika 2 is still not as good as Mika 1.

He knows how to counter people in high speed melee combat. Remember, he still beat Gaelio, using a high speed unit, in a space environment. And that lead to Ein's death/becoming a Gundam. Heck, he even managed to pull it off in a high-speed ranged enemy because it got too close to him(Lafter; it never ended but he managed to put her in melee range).

With past experience like that and admittedly knowing his and Barbatos' weakness, and this battle being of bigger importance, you'd think he'd (or they'd) be prepared to have a counter just in case. Barbatos is a key battlefield member, and Julieta's unit and fighting style is not exactly out of scope of what Mika has had in the past.

The only fight where we've seen him being as scary is when he fought the MA - and as I've metioned, that's partially propelled by plot powers.

Regardless of how Julieta performed, non-Super Saiyan Mika 2 is weaker compared to non-Super Saiyan Mika 1.
 
Rustal wants to keep things status quo. Gjallarhorn would not change under him. So reality wouldn't change. Tekkadan Kudelia wants to change the reality for them and other debris.

This is more accurate. TK haven't really done anything beyond fund stuff for people they are directly related to (eg send Cookie/Cracker to school etc). It's always been Kudelia who provided them with the justification of socioeconomic improvements for Mars.

Right now TK's reason for even being in this fight is because McGillis dangled "you can be King of Mars if you serve my interests" in front of Orga. After leaving Teiwaz they are holding on to the promise of those mythical riches. Kudelia has barely been in S2 because she is the actual one who doing something about social changes.

Also interestingly, for all McGillis' talk about change - all we have seen him do is employ several of the same methods he claims to be so disgusted by. Betrayal, murder, deceit, furthering AV development and body modification, political machinations, and pitting third parties against each other for personal gain are all things he's done.
 

RangerBAD

Member
This is more accurate. TK haven't really done anything beyond fund stuff for people they are directly related to (eg send Cookie/Cracker to school etc). It's always been Kudelia who provided them with the justification of socioeconomic improvements for Mars.

Right now TK's reason for even being in this fight is because McGillis dangled "you can be King of Mars if you serve my interests" in front of Orga. After leaving Teiwaz they are holding on to the promise of those mythical riches. Kudelia has barely been in S2 because she is the actual one who doing something about social changes.

Also interestingly, for all McGillis' talk about change - all we have seen him do is employ several of the same methods he claims to be so disgusted by. Betrayal, murder, deceit, furthering AV development and body modification, political machinations, and pitting third parties against each other for personal gain are all things he's done.

Sure, she was their vehicle.
 
So my predictions for the next few episodes:

At this point, McGillis has effectively been outsmarted at every turn. Not only is he outmanned, but his gambit on Tekkadan somehow being the difference maker ended up coming up short in today's episode as well.

That's why I think Iok is going to do something monumentally dumb that will cause the tides to turn in McGillis' favor. We saw the hints already set in this episode, where he looked jealous that Julietta got to lead troops out into battle, and at the end she is the reason that Rustal and him survived.

Iok being the glory hound that he is, will undermine Rustal in a way, all in the name in trying to prove that he is a valuable asset for him and McGillis, ever the opportunist, will take advantage.
 

RangerBAD

Member
So my predictions for the next few episodes:

At this point, McGillis has effectively been outsmarted at every turn. Not only is he outmanned, but his gambit on Tekkadan somehow being the difference maker ended up coming up short in today's episode as well.

That's why I think Iok is going to do something monumentally dumb that will cause the tides to turn in McGillis' favor. We saw the hints already set in this episode, where he looked jealous that Julietta got to lead troops out into battle, and at the end she is the reason that Rustal and him survived.

Iok being the glory hound that he is, will undermine Rustal in a way, all in the name in trying to prove that he is a valuable asset for him and McGillis, ever the opportunist, will take advantage.

As well as Rustal seems to read the battle, he did underestimate Tekkadan at the end. He shows some actual stupidity by keeping Iok around.
 
Sure, she was their vehicle.

While I respect them not letting anyone else have the AV surgery — Part of me has always hoped Tekkadan would gain some kind of "we're going to change everything so no one needs to go through what we did ever again" aspect. Even if it was just a rub off from Kudelia

...but sadly it never really materialised. I've said before that i don't believe that every gundam protagonist needs to be anti-war, but I do feel like they need "something" to fight for that the audience can get behind.
 

Rymuth

Member
Rustal Da GAWD. He's the true leader we deserve.

Fucking Orga telling his poor deluded sheep about giving them money and women...you mean the stuff they could've gotten back in Mars? Fuck you~

Best moment is when Iok stepped in front of Rustal. That was hee-ee-ee-eeliarious!

SUPER GALAXY CANNON

ain't shit.

Bless Iok Kujan, to care so much for your brethren to come and personally shield them. You truly set precedent and a great example for those to follow.

Dude has a AT Field.

C5lFfDKUsAE-pb3.jpg

C5lFfDMU4AAHFtA.jpg

You're killing me here, XD

Yes, Tekkadan are probably "better" people in the ultimate moral question compared to Rustal. They believe in friendship, honor, trust, and a better future. But it also doesn't matter because Rustal is the more pragmatic man who seems more than morality - he sees order itself. Things have to be structured in such a way to justify them, even if it is manipulated. He is a bastard, but if he can get out of the fight alive, he also needs to be able to justify his actions and have the legal advantage. That is "how Rustal fights".
I think it's worthy to note that Tekkadan are our POV characters. Had there been scenes centered around Rustal's fleet: The cadet who misses his mom, two pilots talking about their brotherhood, the otaku navigator who dreams of pursuing his dream of penning a manga etc. the audience would be just as inclined to sympathize with them.
My point is- Tekkadan believe this is their story and no one in their own story believe themselves to be the villains. But at the end of the day, Rustal abhors senseless (or the better term for it would be 'wasteful') fighting. He goes for the most efficient route to get the most optimal results. That's a far cry from Tekkadan, whose business is war, a directionless force of chaos with no moral stakes in this battle.

Yes, Shino's death is sad but I'm not going to label it as tragic.
 
SHINO!!!! He was one of my favorite characters dammit. Poor Yagami. My heart was pumping so fast by the end, it was a really intense scene. Julietta better die next week and Rustal is scum, Mika better go berserk and finish off everyone by himself. 10/10 episode. Of man, and we never got to see the Galaxy Canon ;_;
 
DAMN IT

I wanted it to HIT SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BADLY

**** Lok and Rustal


always acting cocky and NOBLE when in reality they DO even more corrupt and DIRTY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT


ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Rustal Da GAWD. He's the true leader we deserve.

Fucking Orga telling his poor deluded sheep about giving them money and women...you mean the stuff they could've gotten back in Mars? Fuck you~

Best moment is when Iok stepped in front of Rustal. That was hee-ee-ee-eeliarious!



You're killing me here, XD


I think it's worthy to note that Tekkadan are our POV characters. Had there been scenes centered around Rustal's fleet: The cadet who misses his mom, two pilots talking about their brotherhood, the otaku navigator who dreams of pursuing his dream of penning a manga etc. the audience would be just as inclined to sympathize with them.
My point is- Tekkadan believe this is their story and no one in their own story believe themselves to be the villains. But at the end of the day, Rustal abhors senseless (or the better term for it would be 'wasteful') fighting. He goes for the most efficient route to get the most optimal results. That's a far cry from Tekkadan, whose business is war, a directionless force of chaos with no moral stakes in this battle.

Yes, Shino's death is sad but I'm not going to label it as tragic.

I think a thing to keep in mind is that one rustal's use and everything to do with Dangleif is bullshit hypocrisy. He's commiting massive amount of war crimes and his defense doesn't make sense (if a country uses biological weapons one time it doesn't give you go ahead to carpet bomb said country with biological weapons) even ignoring the fact maniplative and law ignoring the strategy was. Two Ghallarjorn are running a corrupt dictatorial hegemony on the world filled with nepotism. Earth and Mars as it stands are pretty shit places to live. Three rustal succeeding means no shift in the shitty status quo whatsoever.

McGillis is as rather realistic in a way as a revolutionary. The thing about revolutions generally as history as taught us is that while the oppressing regime's often corrupt and unjust, the type of people that would lead a war to change such countries gravitate towards self righteous power hungry dicks. Thus the difference between one regime and another is often a different flavour of shit. The Napoleon's and Oliver Cromwell's of the world weren't nice people (and they're the ones that get lauded). Very rarely is there a decisive positive difference that comes about from a revolution but what does come about sometimes are seeds. The temporary deposition of the monarchy and power given to parliament weren't of great difference to the peasants of the day (corruption and self interest of those in power were still as rampart as ever), but it left the seeds for which the modern democracy in Britain was built from. Similary with Napoleon and the French Revolution.

McGillis wants to destroy the seven star system and elect members of ghallrjorn by merit while he remains as ultimate dictator. Similar in some respects to Napoleon. While for his rule and those directly succeeding it will be the same old dictatorship but in the far future the seeds of that maybe minor change of the day may bear fruit for a far more just and representative organisation (or they may not and ultimately be negative). Comparitively Rustal stands as stagnation. He is the embodiment of current Ghallarjorn and embraces it both the good and the bad. Mcgillis embraces the origin of the organisation both the good and the bad. There's no real good guys or fundamentally good paths simply paths that can be taken.
 
There will be a huge turn around in the next couple episodes. There are 4 episodes to go and Tekkadan is already on the brink of destruction. Maybe Mackey still has something up his sleeve (I doubt it) or Orga dies and Mika goes berserk and kills everybody. Something must happen to keep the show going. It won't be an easy win for Rustal.
 

Rymuth

Member
Macky thought he had a premium on wise planning and leadership but in this episode Rustal just show them all how a real pragmatic leader fights.

Rustal is going to be a shining example for Iok to become a better leader when this is over because youfucking know he's surviving.
I had both Rustal and Iok surviving but seeing Rustal stumble here makes me think he might bite it.

Iok being groomed have all the signs of him surviving and leading the new age. I'm very sure of it.
There will be a huge turn around in the next couple episodes. There are 4 episodes to go and Tekkadan is already on the brink of destruction. Maybe Mackey still has something up his sleeve (I doubt it) or Orga dies and Mika goes berserk and kills everybody. Something must happen to keep the show going. It won't be an easy win for Rustal.
I'm still surprised we never got a Colony Laser/Doomsday weapon. The Dainsleif are very cool in a low-key sort of way as opposed to the flashy final weapons of Gundam shows of old.
 
I'm still surprised we never got a Colony Laser/Doomsday weapon. The Dainsleif are very cool in a low-key sort of way as opposed to the flashy final weapons of Gundam shows of old.

In an AU without beam weapons, and suits that lack powered flight (apart from Bael?) &#8212; I think Dainsleifs are as much as we are gonna see tbh.
 
Dammit first Lafter and now Shino! Why are you doing this to me IBO? Why even let them live last season for this?

Shino didn't even get to cause damage to something else like Naze did.
 
Top Bottom