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[Humdinger]

I could just boil it down to a single tweet if you like:

Question: How much does MS or Sony need to fund the development, in order for it to be considered first-party? 100%? More than 50%? Presumably not a low percentage like 10%, correct?

 

[Three]

You want to boil it down to console warz nonsense because you’re a warrior. If I was trying to engage in any of that then I wouldn’t have included Destruction at all because 2 is worse than 3. It’s math. Your morning education continues.

My post was about this generation. You are listing games that date back to PS3. Yes, I agree, Sony was great during PS3. Because they needed to be. Now they don’t, and their output is, as I put, pathetic as a result.

Which of the listed IPs date back to the PS3? What the hell are you talking about? DS is Death Stranding not Demon's Souls. Even then they didn't get Fromsoftware to do a Demon's Souls 2, they made the new IP Bloodborne instead.

You can play the console warz game all day, I just want good games to play and new IP’s to experience. Like I already said, I loved Ronin, got the plat, but that game isn’t from Sony, just like Stalker 2 isn’t from Microsoft. It’s not hard.

Stalker 2 isn't published by MS like Ronin is published by Sony so don't be silly. Otherwise you can start listing games like FF7 Rebirth. "It's not hard".

 

[drganon]

You want to boil it down to console warz nonsense because you’re a warrior.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Which of the listed IPs date back to the PS3? What the hell are you talking about?


Stalker 2 isn't published by MS like Ronin is published by Sony so don't be silly. Otherwise you can start listing games like FF7 Rebirth. "It's not hard".

I assumed DS stood for Demons Souls but maybe it’s Death Stranding, which either way would be another case of you grasping at straws because that is a Kojima game not a Sony game.

Yes I am aware Sony buys up a lot of games because they aren’t making many of their own right now. Hence the point of this thread. Catch up at your own pace and enjoy the last word here.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't even tink this is a controversial statement, even the good games are not as good as their predecessors on PS4 (like Ragnarok and Forbidden West). The one franchise that is a massive unequivocal improvement is Gran Turismo. Astro Bot is a very good game but people talking like it's one of the best ever are just loopy, it's primarily trading on fan service, fan service of the actual Sony we all knew and loved.

 

[midnightAI]

Question: How much does MS or Sony need to fund the development, in order for it to be considered first-party? 100%? More than 50%? Presumably not a low percentage like 10%, correct?

I'd say majority (above 50%), but I guess it depends on if the game was in development previously before the agreement was in place and then what involvement Sony/MS/Nintendo had beyond just money (it isn't always just funding and publishing for Sony or whoever to determine its a first party game but its generally how they classify it).

An example of this was Stellar Blade, that was initially a rather small game, then Sony came in and persuaded them to make a much larger game (which Sony then funded) and Sony published it, in the meantime Shift Up also signed a second party agreement to make games for Sony going forward (not surer how long that is for, could be one more game or multiple). Sony also provided loads of tech support via XDev and provided them with PS5 dev kits (Shift Up CEO also bought each of his employees PS5's, not sure if he did actually have to pay for them though)

 

[Sony]

Precisely. Playstation is simply the brand of choice, no matter the first party output. I think in 2006 this wasn't as established yet, as PS3 lost a lot of share (but still more than MS ever managed). But a decade of PS4 transitioned into PS5 certainly cemented Sony's grip. They simply won't go anywhere. Consumers decided that they rather play EA FC, CoD, Fortnite and GTA on Playstation than on an Xbox. If a next generation console war happens, Playstation wins by numbers. This isn't even up for debate anymore. The status quo doesn't seem to change in the forseeable future.

In the smartphone industry the same trend happened. You can come up with superior alternatives, much cheaper even. But as far as Android goes Samsung is the go to brand for over a decade and it seems it won't change any time soon. It will sell best by default.

This was definitely established in PS3 era as well.
- Xbox 360 was cheaper than the PS3
- Xbox 360 had significantly more exclusives than the PS3 in the early years of the PS3 where PS3 was less feature rich and much more expensive
- Xbox 360 had significantly better versions of multiplatforms for the longest time

Yet despite all these disadvantages and a much higher price, PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 on an annual basis worldwide. The only reason the Xbox 360 did well in numbers compared to PS3, was the fact that it was out for more than a year earlier in most markets. It wasn't 3:1 as it is today, but it was 1,5:1 in early gen and 2:1 later. The only time Xbox 360 outsold PS3 was when Kinect launched at it got that casual gamer boost. for 80% of their life, PS3 outsold Xbox 360, also in the years where PS3 had the most disadvantages compared to 360.

 

[Humdinger]

I'd say majority (above 50%), but I guess it depends on if the game was in development previously before the agreement was in place and then what involvement Sony/MS/Nintendo had beyond just money (it isn't always just funding and publishing for Sony or whoever to determine its a first party game but its generally how they classify it).

An example of this was Stellar Blade, that was initially a rather small game, then Sony came in and persuaded them to make a much larger game (which Sony then funded) and Sony published it, in the meantime Shift Up also signed a second party agreement to make games for Sony going forward (not surer how long that is for, could be one more game or multiple). Sony also provided loads of tech support via XDev and provided them with PS5 dev kits (Shift Up CEO also bought each of his employees PS5's, not sure if he did actually have to pay for them though)

Good info, thanks. I wasn't thinking of Stellar Blade as a first-party title, but I guess I need to update my understanding of what "first-party" means.

 

[SkylineRKR]

This was definitely established in PS3 era as well.
- Xbox 360 was cheaper than the PS3
- Xbox 360 had significantly more exclusives than the PS3 in the early years of the PS3 where PS3 was less feature rich and much more expensive
- Xbox 360 had significantly better versions of multiplatforms for the longest time

Yet despite all these disadvantages and a much higher price, PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 on an annual basis worldwide. The only reason the Xbox 360 did well in numbers compared to PS3, was the fact that it was out for more than a year earlier in most markets. It wasn't 3:1 as it is today, but it was 1,5:1 in early gen and 2:1 later. The only time Xbox 360 outsold PS3 was when Kinect launched at it got that casual gamer boost. for 80% of their life, PS3 outsold Xbox 360, also in the years where PS3 had the most disadvantages compared to 360.

Well to be specific, MS had more marketshare in the USA during the 360 run. PS3 managed to outsell it in WW basis due to a (much) stronger presence in mainland Europe, and Japan/Asia. In the end they both sold around 90m, with MS being on the market for about a year longer.

Yes its ofcourse obvious that IF the PS3 launched, say, on time and at 200 bucks less (which is huge even today), MS would've trailed right out of the gate as well. There is absolutely no indication it wouldn't. They might've still won the US with their Xbox Live and online shooter push, but much more narrow.

But, Sony did lose a lot of share and confidence during this time. They were forced to rethink. Back then, about 20 years ago, it was kind of easier to jump ship. You wouldn't have friendslists and digital libraries full of content yet, and the daily lives of teenagers wasn't active on socials and connected games yet. I think its rather established now. The current generation of gamers have their libraries and socials locked in. Even with crossplay, I doubt the majority of the consumers would want an Xbox over a new Playstation all of a sudden. And to be frank there is little reason to do so. Both consoles play the most popular software, you'd go with what you're familliar with and where your friends already were.

Its not like wanting to upgrade from the PS2, which we would typically do by reading reviews and looking at the exclusive software, either choice would've been a fresh start anyway.

 

[HogIsland]

There's literally one question: Did Playstation publish it? If Yes -> First Party.

Sony Explains How Second-Party Fits into Its Software Slate

It's all PlayStation Studios

www.pushsquare.com

 

[Sooner]

Not counting several PS console exclusives for a variety of reasons.

Counting games made by previously third-parties that are still on PS5 as "Xbox games".

As you see, after carefully placing this goal post in the stands, and this goal post at the 50 yard line, Xbox clearly had the better year.

 

[HogIsland]

Not counting several PS console exclusives for a variety of reasons.

Counting games made by previously third-parties that are still on PS5 as "Xbox games".

As you see, after carefully placing this goal post in the stands, and this goal post at the 50 yard line, Xbox clearly had the better year.

Saying that this is the worst Playstation generation doesn't mean Xbox is having a good one. This is console wars brain worm thinking.

 

[yurinka]

Apart from 3rd party titles with paid 1-year-ish exclusivity (like SH2 and FFVII: Rebirth), the only titles we saw from Sony this year were Helldivers II, Astrobot and... LEGO Horizon (kek), plus a bunch of needless remasters like Horizon: Zero Dawn, Until Dawn and TLOU Part II and (potentially) incoming announcement of a native PS5 version of Days Gone. Concord as well, but it's already dead so it's not worth even talking about.

In the meantime, this console generation is already halfway done, so the promises of big games and substantial output become even less trustworthy. Apart from Ghost of Yotei, ND's new sci-fi game and whatever SSM is working on, will there be anything of actual substance until PS6 arrives?

Totally wrong.

SH2 and FF Rebirth exclusives aren't "1-year-ish". Like every year, they released many 3rd party console exclusives ranging from AAA to indie. In my case, this year I played a lot ZZZ from MiHoyo and many people loved other ones like Granblue Fantasy Relink.

Regarding first party, this year Sony released Helldivers 2, Steallar Blade, MLB, Rise of the Ronin, Destiny 2 The Final Shape, Concord, Astro Bot, Lego Horizon in addition to the TLOU2, Until Dawn and Horizon remasters, a few PC pòrts more and post launch content for several games like Gran Turismo 7 (like the demo/Prologue/free tutorial My First Gran Turismo), Helldivers or Astro Bot.

And well, this year again Sony is the company getting more nominations and awards. They announced the BAFTA nominations yesterday and Sony's first party games got over 20 BAFTA nominations split into Helldivers 2, Astro Bot, Lego Horizon and Stellar Blade. Plus several more from 3rd party exclusives like FFVIIR. As usual, no other publisher gets more nominations, awards or games nominated.

Sony not only releases more games -and new IPs- than the other companies in general: they also release more award-winning games than the other companies.

Dev cycles are 4-5+ years these days, so a year represents less than a quarter of the time spent making a single AAA title.

AAA games released today take an average of 5 to 9 years (in a few cases a bit more or a bit less). It keeps increasing every generation.

In case of Sony, as an example they released this year Helldivers 2 (8 years of development) and Rise of the Ronin (9 years).

 

[Klayzer]

Totally wrong.

SH2 and FF Rebirth exclusives aren't "1-year-ish". Like every year, they released many 3rd party console exclusives ranging from AAA to indie. In my case, this year I played a lot ZZZ from MiHoyo and many people loved other ones like Granblue Fantasy Relink.

Regarding first party exclusives, this year Sony released Helldivers 2, Steallar Blade, MLB, Rise of the Ronin, Destiny 2 The Final Shape, Concord, Astro Bot, Lego Horizon plus the TLOU2, Until Dawn and Horizon remasters.

Be careful, the green goalposts moving brigade will come for you.

 

[Spiral1407]

The only good thing about this gen was the hardware and even then, the widespread lack of optimisation has ruined that advantage. Even PS3 had a more compelling exclusive lineup by this point. This is the worst console gen by far imo

 

[LimanimaPT]

No shit?
Games used to take 2 years to make, now they take 6 years. What do you expect?

If they stop making "cinematic experiences" maybe games will take 3 years to make. Give me good old SP 10 hours games with zero to none useless cutscenes and I'll take it.

Maybe the games output will increase.

 

[Ribi]

I regret to inform you that Nintendo didn't invent the genre.

so we are using even older tech gotcha

 

[ArtHands]

I could just boil it down to a single tweet if you like:

people also said Lego Horizon isn’t a PS first party game

 

[nial]

Like I already said, I loved Ronin, got the plat, but that game isn’t from Sony, just like Stalker 2 isn’t from Microsoft. It’s not hard.

Couldn't have used a MUCH better example at least (like say, MSFS 2024)? Stalker 2 is self-published by GSC, ROTR is published by SIE.
MS doesn't have any responsibility for production management regarding Stalker 2, SIE does regarding ROTR. It's literally different.

 

[Optimus Lime]

This console generation fucking sucks, and the people who are in here defending it blow my mind.

Console games are too expensive. In Australia, they are bullshit expensive. $130 for a fucking single player videogame that I'll never touch again? Plus 'battle passes' and 'deluxe editions' and the rest of the dog shit that they shove at us?

The PS5 Pro's price is ridiculous. It's opportunistic, greedy, and it doesn't even have anything to show for the cost. Yeah, Gran Turismo 7 looks kinda sorta better if you squint and sit the right distance from the TV. Give me a break.

Xbox - I mean, they've shat the bed. It's over. Phil Spencer is confirmed to be a massive idiot and their dumbass strategy has utterly cratered them as a brand, with no hope of recovery. And, Nintendo is even more of a kid's toy company than ever before, with their 8 year old Fisher Price hardware, and their store of bullshit slop, punctuated by moments of first party franchise pandering.

There is only one way. Only one path forward. And, that's the PC. It is the saviour. It always was. It always will be. You can deny this, be mad about it, cry about it, and scream about it - but in the end, late at night when everyone in your house is asleep, and you're staring at the ceiling with your heart pounding, covered in sweat, you know I'm right.

Come to Gabe.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They released two GOTY contenders this year

So nah, their first party situation is just fine

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Why is it always whataboutism with Sony guys when there are genuine discussions to be had at how poor their output has been vs previous gens.

Microsoft own Bethesda and have done for years. Indy is their game.

People want to talk about organic growth and purchases and Bethesda was probably the most organic purchase outside of Plauground games they could make.

Todd and ms and the zenimax guys had been friends and nurturing a relationship since Morrowind on the og xbox.

 

[drganon]

This console generation fucking sucks, and the people who are in here defending it blow my mind.

Console games are too expensive. In Australia, they are bullshit expensive. $130 for a fucking single player videogame that I'll never touch again? Plus 'battle passes' and 'deluxe editions' and the rest of the dog shit that they shove at us?

The PS5 Pro's price is ridiculous. It's opportunistic, greedy, and it doesn't even have anything to show for the cost. Yeah, Gran Turismo 7 looks kinda sorta better if you squint and sit the right distance from the TV. Give me a break.

Xbox - I mean, they've shat the bed. It's over. Phil Spencer is confirmed to be a massive idiot and their dumbass strategy has utterly cratered them as a brand, with no hope of recovery. And, Nintendo is even more of a kid's toy company than ever before, with their 8 year old Fisher Price hardware, and their store of bullshit slop, punctuated by moments of first party franchise pandering.

There is only one way. Only one path forward. And, that's the PC. It is the saviour. It always was. It always will be. You can deny this, be mad about it, cry about it, and scream about it - but in the end, late at night when everyone in your house is asleep, and you're staring at the ceiling with your heart pounding, covered in sweat, you know I'm right.

Come to Gabe.

 

[Optimus Lime]

 

[TGO]

AAA games released today take an average of 5 to 9 years (in a few cases a bit more or a bit less). It keeps increasing every generation.

In case of Sony, as an example they released this year Helldivers 2 (8 years of development) and Rise of the Ronin (9 years).

Nioh was said to have taken 14 year's to make.
Although it was announced on PS3 originally
Although development on PS4 actually took 3 years, Nioh 2 came two years later and Wo Long another 2 with Rise of the Ronin coming out a year later.
And you believe it actually took 9 years.

 

[ArtHands]

They released an award winning game

 

[Humdinger]

Yeah, no contest there...

 

[DragonNCM]

I'm not worrying......we have MS here to fill the gap

 

[Unknown?]

This console generation fucking sucks, and the people who are in here defending it blow my mind.

Console games are too expensive. In Australia, they are bullshit expensive. $130 for a fucking single player videogame that I'll never touch again? Plus 'battle passes' and 'deluxe editions' and the rest of the dog shit that they shove at us?

The PS5 Pro's price is ridiculous. It's opportunistic, greedy, and it doesn't even have anything to show for the cost. Yeah, Gran Turismo 7 looks kinda sorta better if you squint and sit the right distance from the TV. Give me a break.

Xbox - I mean, they've shat the bed. It's over. Phil Spencer is confirmed to be a massive idiot and their dumbass strategy has utterly cratered them as a brand, with no hope of recovery. And, Nintendo is even more of a kid's toy company than ever before, with their 8 year old Fisher Price hardware, and their store of bullshit slop, punctuated by moments of first party franchise pandering.

There is only one way. Only one path forward. And, that's the PC. It is the saviour. It always was. It always will be. You can deny this, be mad about it, cry about it, and scream about it - but in the end, late at night when everyone in your house is asleep, and you're staring at the ceiling with your heart pounding, covered in sweat, you know I'm right.

Come to Gabe.

ROFL, are you paid? PC isn't immune from the problems you speak. AAA gaming takes just as long for PC and if you think GT7 requires squinting to look better then even a 4090 will make you squint to see differences and disappoint you for spending $2000 USD for minor upgrades to your eyes.

 

[Evil Calvin]

I know it's not 1st party but when Square was 'Square/ EA' their Playstation One exclusive output was phenomenal!!
Starting in Feb 1998 (right before the collaboration)

Xenogears
Bushido Blade 2
Parasite Eve
FF7
Brave Fencer Mushashi
Ehrgeiz
FF8
Chocobo Racing
Saga Frontier 2
Legend of Mana
Front Mission 3
Threads of Fate
Chrono Cross
Parasite Eve 2
Vagrant Story
FF 9

All between February 1998 through Ju;ly 2000. Just a little over 2 years.

These are just exclusives for Sony by Square.

Crazy how much output there was on the PS, N64, Dreamcast at this time.

 

[kaizenkko]

Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin... These are first-party games. All these games were funded by Sony. What is really the diferrence between one of these and The Last of Us or God of War?

 

[HogIsland]

Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin... These are first-party games. All these games were funded by Sony. What is really the diferrence between one of these and The Last of Us or God of War?

they're not nearly as good

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I know it's not 1st party but when Square was 'Square/ EA' their Playstation One exclusive output was phenomenal!!
Starting in Feb 1998 (right before the collaboration)

Xenogears
Bushido Blade 2
Parasite Eve
FF7
Brave Fencer Mushashi
Ehrgeiz
FF8
Chocobo Racing
Saga Frontier 2
Legend of Mana
Front Mission 3
Threads of Fate
Chrono Cross
Parasite Eve 2
Vagrant Story
FF 9

All between February 1998 through Ju;ly 2000. Just a little over 2 years.

These are just exclusives for Sony by Square.

Crazy how much output there was on the PS, N64, Dreamcast at this time.

This was before the consolidation of their production teams rather than expanding the teams individually.

Xenogears - Tetsuya Takahashi left the company
Bushido Blade 2 - Kunihiko Nakata left the company
Parasite Eve
FF7
Brave Fencer Mushashi -Yoichi Yoshimoto left the company
Ehrgeiz
FF8
Chocobo Racing
Saga Frontier 2
Legend of Mana - Koichi Ishii left the company
Front Mission 3 - Toshiro Tsuchida left the company
Threads of Fate - Hiroyuki Ito is still at Square Enix but who knows what he is doing
Chrono Cross - Masato Kato left the company
Parasite Eve 2
Vagrant Story - Yasumi Matsuno left the company
FF 9 - Hiroyuki Ito is still at Square Enix but who knows what he is doing

 

[nial]

they're not nearly as good

they're better than GOW1-3

 

[HogIsland]

they're better than GOW1-3

completely useless post and also wrong

 

[Euler007]

I love threads where the first word in the title reveals the bias.

 

[nial]

completely useless post and also wrong

Nah, won't argue against TLOU1-2 and GOW 2018, but GOW1-3 may as well be some of the lamest SCE first-party games out there, IMO (along with the likes of say, Jak and Sly).

 

[midnightAI]

people also said Lego Horizon isn’t a PS first party game

That one is more complicated because its a joint game by both PlayStation and Lego, but technically, yes, its a first party game as it is published by Sony, using a Sony IP (partly), but other than resources I dont think Sony funded all or even most of it. Still, I personally think it is a first party game, but due to it also being a Lego game it isnt wholly owned by PlayStation (originally I wasnt too sure really as its mostly led by Lego not by PlayStation, and I'm sure funding was between Lego and PlayStation, but now I do personally think it is a first party game).

(and yes, I know why people were saying it wasn't a First Party game, heck, even I think its in a weird grey area, but the reason its also on Switch is due to the Lego license)

 

[midnightAI]

They released an award winning game

They need to be careful with that awards name, especially that logo, Geoff will be after 'em

 

[Optimus Lime]

ROFL, are you paid? PC isn't immune from the problems you speak. AAA gaming takes just as long for PC and if you think GT7 requires squinting to look better then even a 4090 will make you squint to see differences and disappoint you for spending $2000 USD for minor upgrades to your eyes.

Yes. I'm being paid by 'PC', dumbass. You figured it out.

 

[Unknown?]

Yes. I'm being paid by 'PC', dumbass. You figured it out.

Haha, well your argument doesn't add up.

 

[mayham2199]

They released two GOTY contenders this year

So nah, their first party situation is just fine

That's not enough though they needed to make at least 4 other wise Sony is garbage.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Haha, well your argument doesn't add up.

It really does. But, it's okay. Go play with your console.

 

[EverydayBeast]

They basically follow the GT, gow, new ip every gen. Just wait for naughty dog.

 

[Woopah]

I loved Ronin but that isn’t a first party game. Then again I guess Destruction isn’t either so we are down to 2 new IPs, thanks for the help there.

Somehow Ronin and Stellar Blade are first party games now. No idea why but try not to make sense out of it

Ronin is first party just like Hyrule Warriors and Fire Emblem Three Hopes are first party .

Stellar Blade is first party just like Bayonetta 3 and Astral Chain are first party.